Zentraedi Getting Pasted

[MuddlingZentraedi]

I'll be honest: my Zentraedi get pasted alot in games. The scenario doesn't really make a difference. We both setup opposite each other X amount of inches, move towards the middle, shoot and repeat.

Keeping the Glaug alive while moving the Squadron across the board is difficult. Keeping him in the rear is the only solution but most of his weapons don't reach so he can't shoot my opponent. The initial complement of Regults only last a couple turns before the Glaug's exposed to enemy fire. The replacement 'Pods from "Life is Cheap" are so far in the back trying to catch up they're not making a difference until after he's dead. The Regult firepower is short ranged enough that I have to get soaked the first turn and even then their Firepower Skill (sp) is poor enough that very few shots count.

So I'm coming to you folks for advice. Should we add more terrain? Adopt different tactics? Update the rule set (since the Blast rules have been updated)? Or are we not following the rules correctly? The YouTube videos are sparse and only marginally helpful.

Regards,
MZ

[CaptKaruthors]

What sort of load out are you running? What does your force look like? It's hard to give advice without knowing what you are fielding and at what points level. If you are getting blown away across the table, terrain may be an issue. Protecting your Glaug can be tricky but always remember to keep some pods nearby or the recovery vehicle. This will allow you to share damage it sustains. You then roll with impact (if possible) further reducing the damage you sustain. Also, don't be afraid to get your glaug into the thick of things. It's high defense paired with it's high PIL allows it to be fairly survivable. It's got good missile defense as well. Do you have artillery pods in your force? I find that the glaug lives longer if you have something else in your force that is a bigger target in the order of target priority.

[wilycoyote]

Without knowing your set up it is difficult to give advice.

However, as CK says look at your table set up , although absolutely not for every game you play, it should rbe relatively terrain heavy, especially cutting out long lanes of fire - that said the UEDF are tough and will still maul your pods.

Basic pods will not cut it and you need the support of those lovely artillery dudes, especially if your opponent likes using Phalanxes to chop up your formations at long range. The recon pods also help you out but need to be shielded.

Over the games we have played (beyond the initial introductory scenarios) we have found the UEDF seem to have more options and have the edge at the moment WE are tring out the Wave 2 standees to get a feel for the Female and male armours and so far the FPA does look promising in redressing the balance.

Going forward for a change of pace try putting together some asymetricall games linked to simple storylines, based around the cartoon series - ayou could almost think of it as a sort of rpg encounter Perhaps a few veritechs trying find and pick up someone, heavily outnumbered by pods for example. Sometimes playing "fair" balanced games do not bring out the best in a rules ssytem , when all yu want is a good enjoyable game where you you create some memorable on table moments

[jaymz]

Always add afew artillery...also pay the points for veteran warriors. That +1 gunnery makes a HUGE difference.

[MuddlingZentraedi]

You're right that I should've posted my list and I"m sorry. Here's my 300pt list to the best of my memory:

Regult Attrition Squad (70)
Glaug Upgrade (20)

Regult Attack Squad (80)
Grell Special Character (5)
Quel- Gulnau (10)

Regult Artillery Squad (90)
Quel-Regult (15)

That's about 290. When my opponent gets back from holiday I'll ask him for his list. But from what I remember we're playing the boxed set plus a couple extra models/unit.

Thanks for the input so far. Not hearing anything after a week or two would've put a damper on my friend's enthusiasm for this.

PS. If what wilycoyote says is true, I'm eagerly anticipating the infantry units.

[jaymz]

Better option is recon squad then add regult support. The extra command points and the recon suite are a godsend.

[jaymz]

If ypu can do 2 recon swuads with regult and artillery support thrn you get lots of command points total as well as plenty of regults. Then your best bet is to just swarm your enemy.

[Alpha 11]

I've also been having a hard time with the Zentraedi. Well, not me, the people who I've gotten to play with me, and they have choisen to play the Zentraedi, have had a hard time. Played one game with a guy who was playing it the first time (we try to get together every other Fri. to play different war games, and it was the 2nd game of that night. The first game was Star Wars Armada, IIRR.) So, to save time, I had choicen the build of both armies, gave him the choice, and he went with Zentradi. I..., curved stomped him... Played my brother in law, and the same thing happen, and they both had female power armor, 3 of them. So my best guess, you will need to sacrifice some of your units to get in as fast as possible to distract the RDF forces, while the rest close in. Use that ability to double and if possible, triple your movement, and get in close, and fast. If you can get a hold of FPM, or the stand in ones like the drive through site, then you could use those to distrace the RDF forces. Hope that helps some.

[CaptKaruthors]

I agree with Jaymz. The Recon core cards are the most efficient way to get more CPs into your army..which is a critical component to make zentraedi successful. Zentraedi will need to make some boosts with their units to close the distance...OR may need those extra CPs to dodge or roll. Having more CPs is always a good thing. It gives you more options. Also note your positioning of your units in relation to your opponent. If your opponent is playing Veritechs...they are weak to missiles in the rear arc since they don't have anti-missile, rear weapons. So any missile volley of 4 or more cannot be dodged by them. Always check what the fire arcs are of the UEDF vehicles and exploit it. Also don't forget about Focus Fire. All pods get it. When Zentraedi are being played right, UEDF is usually at a disadvantage. It takes many games and practice though.

I usually run 2 Recon Squads with Artillery support. Then for the remaining points I add in some filler/ distraction units. Ideally, you want to have 3/4 activations (units) per turn. Spread your artillery support out so it isn't all in one place. Pair off your artillery units so you can get the GN bonus for being within 2". Sometimes running Azonia is better than Grell. Grell is useful if you are completely playing Battle Pod swarms. But I've found that Azonia gets you more command points...which can help your Glaugs live. Sometimes Khyron is helpful. Play around with the characters as they all contribute differently depending on the builds you are running. Also, if you want, I created new special character cards for Zentraedi, Malcontents, and UEDF. Those are posted in a different thread. They offer some interesting options for game play. If you feel like you are still struggling, come back here and let's discuss what is happening in your games. Lastly, increase the terrain on your tables by 20% beyond what you are currently using...and see if that also makes a difference.

[jaymz]

Yeah...6x4 is usually a good setup. Anything smaller gets problematic for positioning.

[MadMeyers]

Hey all I'm MuddlingZentraedi's opponent and the person who roped him into playing. We are both looking to have a good game but from the games we have been playing it just seems like we might be missing something since the RDF is almost always overwhelmingly dominant on the field of battle. So below I'm posting the usual army list I play for the RDF side of things.

Valkyrie Squad (80)
VF-1S attached (30)
Max Sterling attached (10)

Fire Support Destroid Squadron (60)
Command Destroid Upgrade attached (10)

Armored Destroid Squadron (80)
Dietrich attached (10)

This adds up to 280 points using the updated cards with the revised point costs. Don't tell Muddling that I've been playing ten points short it might break him.

We have probably played close to a dozen games and the plan has always been that we would switch sides so we can see how the other half plays but we were more concerned with getting the rules right first before complicating things with learning a new side on top of learning the rules.

[Spinachcat]

I suggest re-reading the rules. Its possible you are giving the Z's an unfair disadvantage because of a possible mis-reading or skipping of something in the rulebook. I've seen that happen many times with other wargames.

[jaymz]

Yeah on several games i have zents just as easily wipe out earth forces. There may possibly be something you guys are not doing or that may be missing.

[rosco60559]

how much cover is there? is there a fair amount of hard los blocking terrain? can the pods dodge cover to cover with only losing a pod or 2?

[jedi078]

First you have to understand that being the 'bad guys' the Zent get the short end of the stick.

Second, if the Artillery Pods could actually fire their missiles indirectly it would make a difference. Besides why call them Artillery Pods if they can't fire indirectly? That is after all the WHOLE point of having 'artillery'.

Also we see Artillery Pods fire missiles indirectly during the attack on Macross Island.

[rosco60559]

jedi, I like where you're going with the artillery pods but I find it rough to actually want to use them. artillery implies a decent range for support in my mind. most support weapons in other games have a decent long range 36+ inches. add in they don't have many blast weapons not too much hope for hitting something they can't see. at least if the blast scatters there is a hope for still hitting something. just an opinion.

[Mike1975]

The Artillery Pods needed tweeking to make them viable. The "Official" costs are way too high. You can find more on the Robotech Wikia page.

Light Artillery Pod Squad
20 Points instead of 25.
They have a 5 point missile upgrade that adds Overwhelming and increases the missiles to 12 damage

Heavy Artillery Pod Squad
20 Points instead of 40
15 point upgrade that gives missiles a range of 54, MD of 13, and adds Overwhelming AND Indirect Fire

So for 35 points you can slightly outrange the Phalanx and have a chance of killing one instantly with one missile or guarantee a kill with two even if they roll with impact.

Most of the units are unchanged but you can find some tweaks in weapons and cost that bring them more into line of playability and utility.

[Alpha 11]

The Artillery Pods needed tweeking to make them viable. The "Official" costs are way too high. You can find more on the Robotech Wikia page.

Light Artillery Pod Squad
20 Points instead of 25.
They have a 5 point missile upgrade that adds Overwhelming and increases the missiles to 12 damage

Heavy Artillery Pod Squad
20 Points instead of 40
15 point upgrade that gives missiles a range of 54, MD of 13, and adds Overwhelming AND Indirect Fire

So for 35 points you can slightly outrange the Phalanx and have a chance of killing one instantly with one missile or guarantee a kill with two even if they roll with impact.

Most of the units are unchanged but you can find some tweaks in weapons and cost that bring them more into line of playability and utility.

That's WAY to much of a drop for the Heavy Arty pod squad. It shouldn't be the same as the Light arty. Make it 30 points for the Heavy.

[Morgan Vening]

That's WAY to much of a drop for the Heavy Arty pod squad. It shouldn't be the same as the Light arty. Make it 30 points for the Heavy.

Just theorizing here. But I think the argument for the same value is twofold.

First, is a direct comparison to the Phalanx, in which the HvArt is woefully inadequate. I know the argument for army-specific costs, but in most cases those tend to not work as intended.
Second, is even in a comparison to the LtArt, it does not look like that big a deal.

Both are identical in every way, with the exception of the missile pods. I'll avoid quoting statistics (as I believe it's still against Forum rules, even though they're freely available on DTRPG).

The Heavy Artillery has twice the range (but if you can see across the table consistently, you're probably not playing with enough terrain) and the Blast characteristic, sure. But I believe it comes down to the ammo situation. The LtArt gets to operate at full capacity for 4 turns, and has a modest chance of hitting the Inescapable target. Whereas the HvArt only gets 1 turn at full capacity, and is almost never going to hit Inescapable. Or you can fire one missile at a time, and even with no cover, be wildly ineffective 1/3 the time (unless you get really lucky, or are playing a game with so many figures scatter is going to help). And given the prevalence of AntiMissile in the game, and that everyone under the template gets to use it (even at a 6), I'm unsure of just how effective the HvArt is over the LtArt in most situations, given the halving of the secondary damage. I mean, if your opponent is playing heavy Phalanx/Ghost, maybe. But while it looks impressive initially, I'm not sure the Blast rules hold up well against the straight Volley the LtArt gets.

Just my two bits.

[Mike1975]

The Artillery Pods needed tweeking to make them viable. The "Official" costs are way too high. You can find more on the Robotech Wikia page.

Light Artillery Pod Squad
20 Points instead of 25.
They have a 5 point missile upgrade that adds Overwhelming and increases the missiles to 12 damage

Heavy Artillery Pod Squad
20 Points instead of 40
15 point upgrade that gives missiles a range of 54, MD of 13, and adds Overwhelming AND Indirect Fire

So for 35 points you can slightly outrange the Phalanx and have a chance of killing one instantly with one missile or guarantee a kill with two even if they roll with impact.

Most of the units are unchanged but you can find some tweaks in weapons and cost that bring them more into line of playability and utility.

That's WAY to much of a drop for the Heavy Arty pod squad. It shouldn't be the same as the Light arty. Make it 30 points for the Heavy.

I disagree completely. A Heavy Arty is basically a unit that carries 4 missiles and can fire 1-4 and otherwise is useless. Comparing what it can do with other units 20 points is valid. Keep in mind that I have a spreadsheet that has been tinkered with to no end to make sure the costs are comparable to playtesting and that is what the Heavy Arty comes up at. The upgrade brings them up to something more like what you would expect from the actual cartoon with indirect fire, increased range and more.

The MPA are also too cheap. Yes, they are slow, but vicious if they can get into range. All my "Official" and Non-Official costs are on the wiki page and can be compared easily.

Either way, the game is serious lacking in support, so you will basically not get anything back from PB. I tried and had a much more direct line and was shut down on lowering the costs of the Hvy Arty. Another reason why I moved on to Nodal Wars....

[Alpha 11]

The Artillery Pods needed tweeking to make them viable. The "Official" costs are way too high. You can find more on the Robotech Wikia page.

Light Artillery Pod Squad
20 Points instead of 25.
They have a 5 point missile upgrade that adds Overwhelming and increases the missiles to 12 damage

Heavy Artillery Pod Squad
20 Points instead of 40
15 point upgrade that gives missiles a range of 54, MD of 13, and adds Overwhelming AND Indirect Fire

So for 35 points you can slightly outrange the Phalanx and have a chance of killing one instantly with one missile or guarantee a kill with two even if they roll with impact.

Most of the units are unchanged but you can find some tweaks in weapons and cost that bring them more into line of playability and utility.

That's WAY to much of a drop for the Heavy Arty pod squad. It shouldn't be the same as the Light arty. Make it 30 points for the Heavy.

I disagree completely. A Heavy Arty is basically a unit that carries 4 missiles and can fire 1-4 and otherwise is useless. Comparing what it can do with other units 20 points is valid. Keep in mind that I have a spreadsheet that has been tinkered with to no end to make sure the costs are comparable to playtesting and that is what the Heavy Arty comes up at. The upgrade brings them up to something more like what you would expect from the actual cartoon with indirect fire, increased range and more.

The MPA are also too cheap. Yes, they are slow, but vicious if they can get into range. All my "Official" and Non-Official costs are on the wiki page and can be compared easily.

Either way, the game is serious lacking in support, so you will basically not get anything back from PB. I tried and had a much more direct line and was shut down on lowering the costs of the Hvy Arty. Another reason why I moved on to Nodal Wars....

Well, there is always hope that it can be lowered. If enough people complain that is. It happen with the blast damage. So it can happen.

[jaymz]

Alpha.....you have no idea the huge amount of effort it took get them to even discuss the blast rule let alone finally get it changed. Considering where we are at now, I can honestly say it is highly unlikely you will see ANY changes let alone something like this.

[Alpha 11]

Alpha.....you have no idea the huge amount of effort it took get them to even discuss the blast rule let alone finally get it changed. Considering where we are at now, I can honestly say it is highly unlikely you will see ANY changes let alone something like this.

So it was that loud? Didn't know that.

[jaymz]

Not a matter of loud but constant effort to even get them to put in what little effort they were willing to while mike and were constantly trying to keep the game relevant and alive.

[Mike1975]

Not a matter of loud but constant effort to even get them to put in what little effort they were willing to while mike and were constantly trying to keep the game relevant and alive.

Then they took it and just arbitrarily changed a few things just because they wanted things to have the "cool" factor. So we have a group over the period of a month discuss the pluses and minuses of all the options and then pass it to PB where they basically changed it however they wanted without so much as a "Why did you guys do this this way?"......

Not a good way to work with other who are trying to help. Hence the current situation.

[Spinachcat]

Then they took it and just arbitrarily changed a few things just because they wanted things to have the "cool" factor. So we have a group over the period of a month discuss the pluses and minuses of all the options and then pass it to PB where they basically changed it however they wanted without so much as a "Why did you guys do this this way?"......

I don't understand. What exactly happened here?

What was the "cool factor"?