61 and 62 - what part of the Invid was hit?

[Axelmania]

Someone PM'd me some interesting info last week about Robotech (not sure if they want to be identified) and I'm watching some clips of battle and trying to puzzle things out.

Ep 61 ~17 min "The Invid Invasion" is the first episode of New Generation, I think adapted from the first episode of MOSPEADA.

Ep 62 ~12 min "The Lost City" is similarly the 2nd ep of New Gen, and I think ep 2 of MOSPEADA

It appears that Scott Bernard is using a cyclone and firing some type of projectile.

I'd like to figure out what the projectile is and which part of the enemy robots it is damaging.

How would these battles be modeled in the RPG?

[ShadowLogan]

Robotech Episodes & their OSM equivalent are placed in the same order
-RT Ep1-36, are Ep1-36 of SDF Macross OSM, however it should be noted a few episodes have spliced footage from SDC: SC and replace SDF:M footage
-RT Ep37, basically is a "clip show" completely new spliced together from recycled clips from SDF Macross and SDC: SC OSMs
-RT Ep38-60, are SDC: Southern Cross OSM episodes 1-23. However it should be noted that RT Ep38 scene order IS different than OSM #1.
-RT Ep61-85, are Ep1-25 of Genesis Climber Mospedea

It appears that Scott Bernard is using a cyclone and firing some type of projectile.

Per the 1E and 2E RPGs Scott is using his GR-97 weapon system and firing mini-missiles.

Per the RT.com Infopedia (via wayback machine) they are anti-personnel missiles that are mounted on the forearm. It should be noted that the Infopedia doesn't use the term mini-missile AFAIK.

I'd like to figure out what the projectile is and which part of the enemy robots it is damaging.

We know what the projectile is officially considered (see above).

In Ep61 all 3 are clearly being hit in the eye region that are taken out between ~16:30 and 17:15. In Ep62 at ~12:00-12:15, Eye Shot based on the blow through and angle.

How would these battles be modeled in the RPG?

As Called Shots (maybe even Aimed Called Shots) given they strike the Sensor Eye which requires a called shot to hit (per RAW).

Maybe even involving critical strikes a bit of GM whim to have the units at less than full strength (overall) for the non-eye kills (as 1 or 2 Mini-Missiles can't take down Troopers to the Main Body any other way, though I suppose the impacts could have knocked the pilots out to).

[Axelmania]

Given that called shots already take an extra melee action now, upping that to 3 actions makes me wonder if Scott Bernard has a high level of melee attacks to be able to do that so quickly.

Is it possible maybe these did not actually hit the Sensor Eye, but maybe just hit an upper portion of the main body close to the eye? I don't really understand the function of the eye or how important it is to the robot's function.

[Jefffar]

The eye is the primary sensor of the Incident mecha, destroying it blinds the mecha.

Further, the pilot sits immediately on the other side of the eye with no armour between them and the eye. A hit that damages or destroys the eye has a high likelihood of injuring or killing the pilot.

[ShadowLogan]

Given that called shots already take an extra melee action now, upping that to 3 actions makes me wonder if Scott Bernard has a high level of melee attacks to be able to do that so quickly.

Per 2E-era TSC Main RPG he would have 9 attacks in VR-052, assuming his level didn't change between Ep61 and Ep85/TSC (he is a Lt. Cmdr). So 3 actions would consume approx 5sec

1E-era called shots and aimed shots would not add to the expended actions, but your still looking at ~4per action maximum (assuming he is Level 1, which he wasn't).

Is it possible maybe these did not actually hit the Sensor Eye, but maybe just hit an upper portion of the main body close to the eye? I don't really understand the function of the eye or how important it is to the robot's function.

It's possible, but some of them clearly show it connecting with the eye. Remember the rules don't really have you taking damage off every location for a radius effect (ie if your in CVR-3 body armor and get hit by a Frag Mini-Missile, you don't deduct from the arms/legs/helmet with the main body, it's just the main body).

The Sensor Eye is located directly in front of the pilot compartment with no "firewall" to protect the pilot. Per the RPG mechanics stated in the Invid Mecha description (aside from the human-form pilots) an attack that destroys the eye transfers to the pilot. Essentially it is an Achille's Heel of Invid Mecha design.

[Axelmania]

So this would be a direct hit on the eye, not the main body, using a called shot with a mini-missile?

A guiding example indeed when interpreting the principles of the game designed to model this anime.

[Jefffar]

The game is an imperfect model however. For example, called shots with missiles are impossible.

To fit the rules as written this could be a representation of a critical strike hitting a weak point and disabling/destroying the target.

[Axelmania]

Critical strikes to the main body still hit the main body.

Always hitting the main body is certainly the default for missiles just like any other attack.

In cases of pilots with a WP aiming a missile, that works as usual, with every advantage a modern WP imparts, like being able to spend an added action to aim or call (2 for both) and for called to designate other areas. Specific overrides general.

[ShadowLogan]

The game is an imperfect model however. For example, called shots with missiles are impossible.

To fit the rules as written this could be a representation of a critical strike hitting a weak point and disabling/destroying the target.

Yes the game is an imperfect model, but the rules are a bit conflicting in nature. You can't do called shots with missiles, however mini-missiles (only, but nothing higher) are subject to the WP rules (per RAW as they have a WP to provide bonuses in 2E, in 1E you could make an AIMED SHOT which is something that you could not do with regular missiles previously), which in allows one to make called and aimed shots (though there is some debate on that in Rifts Forum that got locked).

[guardiandashi]

The game is an imperfect model however. For example, called shots with missiles are impossible.

To fit the rules as written this could be a representation of a critical strike hitting a weak point and disabling/destroying the target.

Yes the game is an imperfect model, but the rules are a bit conflicting in nature. You can't do called shots with missiles, however mini-missiles (only, but nothing higher) are subject to the WP rules (per RAW as they have a WP to provide bonuses in 2E, in 1E you could make an AIMED SHOT which is something that you could not do with regular missiles previously), which in allows one to make called and aimed shots (though there is some debate on that in Rifts Forum that got locked).

this was a specific and explicit special case.

IE in robotech invid invasion, and RMB minimissiles and ONLY minimissiles were allowed to make called shots, because there was no guidance to "mess with the aiming"
in MACROSS II the minimissiles are explicitly guided like their "big brothers" so called shots are not allowed.

in RUE, and robotech second edition they took that ability away (called shots with unguided missiles) even though loosing it caused the "flavor text of the glitterboy killer" to now be describing a tactic that is impossible by current rules, and the scott Bernard on screen attacks in invid invasion to be no longer possible.

[Jefffar]

Its not like a called shot with a missile is the only thing that we see on screen that can't be done in game. Mr. Hunter and Mr. Sterling are both seen evading large volleys of missiles despite the rule that dodging more than 4 missiles in a single volley is impossible.

I would hope that nobody in this thread is attempting to reopen a locked discussion through side channels however. It might make me have to get all moderator.

[ShadowLogan]

Hunter/Steerling actions though don't technically break the rules in 1E (evasive action will lose all attackers, which could be taken to overrule the 4or more rule), and even in 2E it might be possible (I don't claim this happened 100% of the time, but in some instances for sure they could be considered to have shot down the volley in part or full).

I agree there are some things that happen that can be seen to "break from the game rules" (and stats). Its also possible that in the RT line a specific & different interpretation of the megaversal rules might be in effect that do not apply to the megaverse at large (its like the TMNT RPG gives a bonus to dodge from a high SPD attribute, something that doesn't exist elsewhere for ex). At least if we are trying to make the rules and footage agree as much as possible (stat corrections are another matter) via interpretation.