Lord Magus Progress

[Johnathan]

One of the abilities of a Lord Magus is their aging is slowed down. Age one year for every five. One of the races that is approved for Lord Magus training are elves.

Now, with that being said. Elves live hundreds of years (600 normally). That means an elven Lord Magus could potentially live for thousands of years. The OCC progression ends at level 15, as is per the norm for most OCCs in RIFTS.

However, it's conceivable that with that kind of longevity, they could go beyond that! There are a few classes out there who's level progression extends beyond 15 (Demon-Dragonmage and Dragons come to mind).

What do you think so are some of the potential things a Lord Magus, as a progressive creature of magic, could do by exceeding what's written in the books for them? I'm open to interpretations and imaginative ideas!

I've toyed with the ideas of Lord Magi gaining such abilities as teleport, dimensional teleport, night vision, and the such. These could be abilities they gain as they progress beyond level 15. I've also considered the possibility that being "one with magic" would cause a possibility of the Lord Magus discoporating into an entity of pure magical energy. They'd effectively lose their physical body and would only assume such a form in order to interact with "mere mortals", since the Lord Magi tend to lose a bit of their humanity each level (even though this isn't really presented accurately in FoM with the Lord Magus NPC that ISN'T Brethran...).

[Axelmania]

I figured as a house rule if your XP requirements are lower than the dragon table (most are) you can use the dragon table to know how much it takes to get to level 17 and beyond.

All tables tell you where 16 begins, just not where it ends.

[Blue_Lion]

The general rule as I understand it is most races classes/can not advance bounden level 15. It is hard cap for pcs pg 296 RUE.
The maximum level a player character can reach is 15.

Some NPC break this most notably dragons.
(note the table does not tell you where 16 starts but 15 stops.)

[Johnathan]

I figured as a house rule if your XP requirements are lower than the dragon table (most are) you can use the dragon table to know how much it takes to get to level 17 and beyond.

All tables tell you where 16 begins, just not where it ends.

I think there's math behind it. Like you take the EXP it took to get from the beginning of level 15 to the end of level 15, then you double it or add 50% (I forget which, but the math was accurate when I did it at one point).

[Johnathan]

The general rule as I understand it is most races classes/can not advance bounden level 15. It is hard cap for pcs pg 296 RUE.
The maximum level a player character can reach is 15.

Some NPC break this most notably dragons.
(note the table does not tell you where 16 starts but 15 stops.)

I know it seems a little on the difficult side. However, I've seen it done before where characters have made it to level 15. Is it hard? Absolutely. Is it a years long process? Definitely.

However, this is also a thread to consider the possibilities of progressing beyond that barrier. Unless we wish to entertain the dread "class switch" that seems to be heavily deterred in Palladium (even though there are multiple cases of NPCs doing GM just that). Even the Demon-Dragonmage is considered an optional character class, as are dragons. Players, in these two instances, are granted the opportunity, unlikely as it may be, to progress beyond level 15.

I'm not saying it should be easy. It shouldn't. It's suppose to require some serious, dedicated, grinding and playing regularly for years. However, isn't that one of the things RIFTS is about? The possibilities of what COULD happen? What CAN be?

[Axelmania]

(note the table does not tell you where 16 starts but 15 stops.)

In every other instance, the next level starts 1 point after where the last one stops, this isn't a major leap.

RUE 295 upper-right, if level 15 for a Glitter Boy ends at 410,000, what happens at 410,001 ?

There is absolutely no purpose at all to listing any 2nd number for level 15 if you are stuck at level 15 forever. The stating of an upper limit means you are no longer level 15 when you progress beyond that amount.

The natural next point would be level 16. Which should benefit skills/spells if not HTH.

[Eagle]

I'm at the point in my gaming career that all the "playing every week for years and years" is well behind me. The epic campaigns that I played in during high school and college (and a few years after college) all ended 15+ years ago. Now I'm lucky to get to play once a month, and often not even that. Real life interferes in my dice rolling too often for any kind of long-term campaign. As a result, I have zero interest in level-grinding a character up from the beginning, in part because I know that I'm probably never going to be able to do it again. I'd be interested in seeing rules for very high level play.

[Blue_Lion]

(note the table does not tell you where 16 starts but 15 stops.)

In every other instance, the next level starts 1 point after where the last one stops, this isn't a major leap.

RUE 295 upper-right, if level 15 for a Glitter Boy ends at 410,000, what happens at 410,001 ?

There is absolutely no purpose at all to listing any 2nd number for level 15 if you are stuck at level 15 forever. The stating of an upper limit means you are no longer level 15 when you progress beyond that amount.

The natural next point would be level 16. Which should benefit skills/spells if not HTH.

But the table did not tell you that was where 16 began you just assumed it was because it is after 15 ended. It may be logical but it is not what the table actually says. The table say where 15 ends they do not say where 16 begins.

If once you hit the top of level 15 you could no longer earn experience as a normal mortal you would be unable to earn the 1 exp to get to the next level. Dragons and I think gods where listed as being special in there ability to progress past level 15.

[Blue_Lion]

I'm at the point in my gaming career that all the "playing every week for years and years" is well behind me. The epic campaigns that I played in during high school and college (and a few years after college) all ended 15+ years ago. Now I'm lucky to get to play once a month, and often not even that. Real life interferes in my dice rolling too often for any kind of long-term campaign. As a result, I have zero interest in level-grinding a character up from the beginning, in part because I know that I'm probably never going to be able to do it again. I'd be interested in seeing rules for very high level play.

Typically the only time I get lots of RPing in is during a deployment. Some deployment games have had insane amount of play time. But it is not like we had much else to do when not on a mission.

[Johnathan]

I've toyed with the ideas of Lord Magi gaining such abilities as teleport, dimensional teleport, night vision, and the such. These could be abilities they gain as they progress beyond level 15. I've also considered the possibility that being "one with magic" would cause a possibility of the Lord Magus discoporating into an entity of pure magical energy. They'd effectively lose their physical body and would only assume such a form in order to interact with "mere mortals", since the Lord Magi tend to lose a bit of their humanity each level (even though this isn't really presented accurately in FoM with the Lord Magus NPC that ISN'T Brethran...).

Let's move on to the next aspect then. There have been a few, very few, examples given to characters/beings who achieve such a high level of experience (level 15), who them achieve a sort of "ascended" state of being. Madhaven has an NPC Mystic Knight of the White Rose (their leader of I recall), who has achieved a "higher" state of existence once he reached level 15. I'll note, He ends at level 15 but became basically a being of mystical energy, or... more like a conduit. It's not really clear just HOW he achieved the results. There's also the case of a practitioner of a certain martial art form (which it's exact name escapes me at the moment) who, after achieving level 15 in their art, "might" become an Enlightened Immortal. Again, another example of some kind of "transition" occurring at level 15.

I know in other games, one option that was presented to players is that once they achieved their maximum level of experience hey could "remort" the character. This would basically reset the character to level 1 of a chosen profession but the character themself starts off more powerful/stronger starting off. Another potentional option.

Of course, there's nothing really stopping a 15th level character (or any character really) from dual classing into another OCC. I MEAN, let's face t, if there isn't anything after level 15, why not? Assuming you play a character THAT long. However, in the case of the Lord Magus, they possess a rather unique (and enjoyable) progression. Assuming they reach level 15 without dying, giving up, or the game stopping, that may just be it for their progression as a creature of magic.

Or...

Would they have something like what's happened to others who have achieved such "metaphysical mastery" (lack of a better term...)? Could they undergo one, final, metaphysical change that would essentially be the culmination of their entire progress and thus achieve some kind of an "ascended" state of being such as the aforementioned alleviation of their physical form, becoming a being of pure energy?

Reason being, in the game I am currently in, my character, a Lord Magus, has recently achieved level 13. Level 15 approaches, albeit very, very slowly. The GM and I have discussed and theorized just what would happen to a Lord Magus once they achieved such a level. His theory being the aforementioned lose of ones body to, in his words, becoming something like a ghost...

[Axelmania]

But the table did not tell you that was where 16 began you just assumed it was because it is after 15 ended. It may be logical but it is not what the table actually says. The table say where 15 ends they do not say where 16 begins.

If once you hit the top of level 15 you could no longer earn experience as a normal mortal you would be unable to earn the 1 exp to get to the next level. Dragons and I think gods where listed as being special in there ability to progress past level 15.

What is the purpose of earning XP past the minimum needed to begin level 15?

[eliakon]

But the table did not tell you that was where 16 began you just assumed it was because it is after 15 ended. It may be logical but it is not what the table actually says. The table say where 15 ends they do not say where 16 begins.

If once you hit the top of level 15 you could no longer earn experience as a normal mortal you would be unable to earn the 1 exp to get to the next level. Dragons and I think gods where listed as being special in there ability to progress past level 15.

What is the purpose of earning XP past the minimum needed to begin level 15?

as of RUE?
Nothing if your a Player Character as Player Characters can not advance past level 15.
Non-player characters may still be able to level up, but PCs cant.

[boring7]

It strikes me as odd to cap at 15, aren't there numerous references to caster level capping at 20? And considering caster level is one of the few things where leveling matters...

Anyway, sounds like you and the GM have a nascent plan already (become a glowing energy being and fly through the stargateget new weird powers) so just go with that. More specifically track down an RCC/monster type that has appropriate powers and "dual-class" into it.

Just off the top of my head, super powers from Heros Unlimited (conversion book 1), a Spectre (same), or one of the spirits in the "beings who would be gods" section. Might have to turn one of those INTO an RCC of some sort, but we already established you're walking off the charted path and into the wilds of homebrew.

[Johnathan]

Soooo... Went ahead and wrote it up. It's 6 pages long... But I cross referenced the absolute heck out of it with anything I could find that seemed to follow guidelines similar (Dug up Dragons & Gods for the Dragon XP chart... since RUE ends it at 15...).

Either way! I used the mathematical equation that the dragon XP chart uses for leveling up past level 15, which... once I figured out, didn't make ANY sense, but it was at least a guideline. Here we go!

[Johnathan]

16 – 425801 – 501000
- Same as 15-16
17 – 501001 – 613800
- Add 50% from previous EXP.
18 – 613801 – 726600
- Same as level 17
19 – 726601 – 952200
- Double EXP Requirement (225600)
20 – 952201 – 1177800
- Same as level 19
21 – 1177801 – 1403400
- Same as level 19
22 – 1403401 – 1629000
- Same as level 19
23 – 1629001 – 1854600
- Same as level 19
24 – 1854601 – 2305800
- Double EXP Requirement (451200)
25 – 2305801 – 2757000
- Same as level 24
26 – 2757001 – 3208200
- Same as level 24
27 – 3208201 – 4561800
- Triple EXP Requirement (1353600)
28 – 4561801 – 9073800
- X10 EXP Requirement of level 24 (4512000)
29 – 9073801 – 18097800
- Double EXP Requirement (9024000)
30 – 18097801 – 36145800
- Double EXP Requirement (18048000

Creature of Magic Progression after Level 15:
Level 16: Becomes invisible to sensors when turned invisible (Invisibility can be maintained indefinitely)
Level 17: Bio-Regenerates 2D6 M.D.C. per melee round.
Level 18: One With Body – The Lord Magus undergoes a fundamental, physical, kind of metamorphosis due to the magical energies coursing through his veins: +1D4+2 to PS and PP, PE is raised by 30%, Spd. Is doubled. PE also becomes Supernatural.
Level 19: Double Base PPE
Level 20: Can Teleport self and up to 300 lbs (135 kg) at will, up to five miles (8 km) away, at no PPE cost.
Level 21: Increased Longevity: The Lord Magus' aging is severely reduced even further by this point. Instead of aging one year for every five, they now age at one-tenth that rate (I.E. - one year for every fifty years). This means your average elven Lord Magus will now have an effective lifespan closer to that of many dragons (30,000 year lifespan, still less than a Godlings 50,000 year lifespan... but still.) *Edited
Level 22: Immune to ALL Heat (Including M.D.C. Plasma, Magical Fire, etc.)
Level 23: Becomes a Major M.D.C. Being: Double Existing M.D.C. and add 1D6x100.
Level 24: Immune to ALL Cold (Including M.D.C. Magical Cold based attacks)
Level 25: One with Mind: The Lord Magus undergoes a fundamental, mental, transformation due to the magical energies coursing through his veins: +1D4+2 to all mental attributes. Also, at this stage in the Lord Magus’ development, he has, under normal circumstances, abandoned all traces of his former humanity. There’s just nothing left anymore. He will general view most mortal contrivances, beings and things, as beneath him. This is not to say he won’t be friendly or a pleasant individual, it’s just that he may treat mortals that he chooses to be friendly towards as we would treat a pet animal. We enjoy its company, it’s cute, even pleasant to be around, but it’s still an “animal” that doesn’t understand us very well, if at all, and could never understand us. Most Lord Magi at this stage in their development, actually prefer the company over other beings like them. Creatures of Magic, Supernatural Creatures, Godlings, Gods and Immortals. These are, now, their equals…
Level 26: Magically speaks and understands all languages (98%)
Level 27: See the Truth: The Lord Magus now sees auras, as the spell, at all times. On top of that, he can also see the true nature of a being. The Lord Magus will see Shapeshifters have their True form superimposed over whatever form they have taken (This includes those who have been transformed by magic or other means). The alignment of those they see will also be known to them, as well as strong emotions that will emanate from those seen. Invisibility Superior will not even work against this ability.
Level 28: Dimensional Teleport: 70%+5% per each subsequent level. Is considered at Greater Creature of Magic at this level.
Level 29: The Lord Magus gains Mind Block Auto-Defense. It should be noted, this may function as a Psionic ability, yet the Lord Magus does not register as psychic, nor does he gain any other psychic abilities or an I.S.P. from this. It is actually believed that the Lord Magus’ mind has now become so fundamentally different that it is impossible to probe it.
Level 30: One with Magic: The Final Transition. The Lord Magus achieves their final step in their progression as Creatures of Magic with this stage and basically, have a choice to make here. The Final Transition can be achieved, and the Lord Magus will merge into a worlds Ley Line Network. They simply fade away in a sparkling dazzle of magical light and cease to exist in a corporeal fashion. In truth, the Lord Magus, if they choose to do this, becomes “One with Magic” in the truest sense of the words. They basically merge into the great magical network of ley lines and nexus that cross the world they are on. He can now experience untold parts of the world, simultaneously, and, for all intents and purpose, exists in all places at once. Occasionally, the Lord Magus can choose interact with others, but must remain on a Ley Line or Nexus Point in order to do so (They effectively are a Ley Line Ghost at this point but retain full access to their powers, abilities and P.P.E.) It should be noted: MOST (98%) of the Lord Magi choose The Final Transition. It’s almost as if everything they’ve done, every quest, every adventure, every single action that they have taken in their entire existence has led them up to that very moment. That moment where they can ascend beyond their “limited” existence and achieve A “Oneness” with Magic. *Edited
Or, rare as it may be, the Lord Magus can choose to NOT pursue The Final Transition, and can remain as a corporeal being. In order to do this though, the Lord Magus must first make a Save vs. 16. I say only a “Save vs. 16” because no bonuses will apply to this and the save is essentially the Lord Magus saving against the draw to make The Final Transition. They’ll be choosing to go against centuries, possibly millennia, of driving force that defines who and what they are! It’s not an easy thing to do, especially when you’ve been doing it for as long as they have. If they succeed, however, they successful resist the urge and a DIFFERENT metaphysical transformation takes place – The Final Metamorphosis.
The Final Metamorphosis: The Lord Magus undergoes a transformation that many, even the Lords of Magic themselves, have difficulty understanding… or even believing. What happens seems to defy reason, logic, explanation and everything they understand about magic. In truth, The Final Metamorphosis is so EXCEEDINGLY rare (Let’s face it, the Lord Magus at this point is probably thousands, if not tens of thousands, of years old… who’s going to study them for that long? I could honestly ONLY think of Thoth and MAYBE the Lords of Magic themselves.), that most scholars have never even HEARD of it. It’s not even rumor or hearsay, to them, this… thing… just doesn’t exist at all. The Lord Magus must find a magical place of power, and quickly (The Lord Magus will have to resist the urge to achieve The Final Transition again for every two days he remains a corporeal being, the pull is THAT strong). Once there, the pull will stop. However, should he leave the place of power, the pull will immediately start again. After that, he will go into a meditative state and magical energy will begin to collect around him, solidifying into a hardened shell, a cocoon (More like a chrysalis really), that will protect him (The cocoon, will not indestructible, is insanely hard to destroy, or even damage. Use the Null Sphere spell at 30th level, with double the M.D.C. and it regenerates 2D6x10 MDC every melee round due to the continually infusion of mystical energy. Should anyone actually succeed in destroying the shell… they will find a very, very, very annoyed 30th level Lord Magus who commands a phenomenal amount of magical energies at his fingertips, and has absolutely no qualms about unleashing said energies upon those who disturbed his metamorphosis). He will then stay there for an entire year. Nobody can see what is happening inside the shell during this time. Even through magical or psychic means. After the year though, the shell begins to dim and fade, losing its integrity at a rate of 10% a day. Once the shell is completely gone, what emerges from inside is… What? GM’s and Players, it’s your turn to create something amazing! I had a load of fun with this and have wanted to do it for a very long time, let your imaginations run wild!

Oh. I wonder… Were you curious as to what it was I had created for the Lord Magus Final Metamorphosis? Okay. I’ll tell you. Here we go!
RESET BUTTON! ENGAGE!
Upon emerging from the shell, the Lord Magus appears, at least physically, almost the EXACT same as he did when he went in. Visual, physically, there is absolutely nothing different about him. Except one thing – Whatever color the Lord Magus’ eyes were prior, they have now become a swirling vortex of colors, almost like a kaleidoscope of cascading colors can be seen in their gaze. Even metaphysically, there APPEARS to not be much change. The character still registers as a creature of magic, still seems to possess all of his natural abilities, all of his knowledge, magic and all of his skills. At first sight, the Lord Magus SEEMS to be almost exactly the same. Truthfully, he is anything but. Having made it as far as he did, having resist the urge to achieve The Final Transition, and having successfully achieved the Final Metamorphosis, something truly amazing has happened within the Lord Magus. Though they retain all of their power, all of their abilities, all of the magical skills and spells, there indeed HAS been a change within the Lord Magus. It goes as follows:
- First and foremost: All that humanity that the Lord Magus had lost thanks to their progression as a Creature of Magic? It all comes back to them! This might seem like not a big deal to an outsider… but to the Lord Magus, it absolutely CAN be. It’s difficult watching those that you once cared about gradually become unimportant, irrelevant, and small. Not because they are ANY of those things, but because that’s how the Lord Magus came to view much of the world around them. They became something different, something alien… It completely changed them on every level. Changed the very being they were. Now? It’s almost like day one for them, except better. The world seems brighter, colors are more vibrant, and food is the best they have ever tasted, smells that fill his mind with wonderful images. Everything about the world, to the Lord Magus, suddenly feels new and alive! The Lord Magus FEELS it too. They, for the first time in probably hundreds, if not thousands, of years, can once again feel emotions! The full range of them is available to them, once again, all the good… and all the bad. Yet, even with experiencing pain, anger, hate or rage… the Lord Magus is HAPPY about it! Why? Because he hasn’t felt these in a very long time. The experiencing of these emotions is a thrill to him, once again.
o Whatever alignment the Lord Magus WAS prior to the Final Metamorphosis, it is now Anarchist.
o Will need to pick an alignment by 3rd level in their OCC (See below in “Begin Again”) in order to determine their new outlook in life. However, until then, treat them much like you would treat a Dragon Hatchling. Every experience is new, exciting and different and this new character could get themselves into a lot of trouble without help.
- Begin Again: Though the character possesses all of his previous skills, knowledge, powers and abilities still, they are all permanently frozen now. What’s even more unusual is that his skills and knowledge seem to exist for him on almost an instinctual level. At least, the general gist of them do. He still possesses all that he was, yet at the same time, it all seems like it’s part of something else. Something different. Something that is just no longer him. Memories to the Lord Magus are experienced in a similar manner as we would experience a movie in the theater. Instinctively, the Lord Magus understands that these are his memories, and yet, at the same time, that’s just no longer him. Those are no longer his experiences. These are the memories and experiences of that which he once was.
o Still possesses all knowledge, skills, natural abilities and spells that were possessed at the time he was a 30th level Lord Magus. Even HtH skills remain.
o Start at 0 EXP in a new Magical OCC of your choosing. ANY magical OCC is acceptable, but there is no teacher. No mentor. Not really. Magic was his Mentor and Teacher. The GM and the Player, if you’ve made it this far, should work together on this to decide what will be most fitting. Whatever Magical OCC that is chosen is as a Godling (Whatever Magical Profession chosen, at first level, the player gets all level 1 spells from that magical profession). Do not pick a new HtH Combat Style as that has already been addressed and the reborn character instinctively fights as whatever their fighting style was prior to the Final Metamorphosis. All knew skill start at level 1 with appropriate bonuses based on the new OCC selected.
- Temporarily Merge With Ley Lines: Having resisted The Final Transition, the new character finds that he can, briefly, merge with Ley Lines for a limited time. This can only be performed once a day, safely, and can only be maintained for one melee round per combined P.E. and M.E. point (I.E. - if the character has an M.E. of 17 and a P.E. of 23, they can successfully discorporate for 40 melee rounds). During that time though, they, effectively, cease to exist. Once they return, they are completely invigorated (All P.P.E. is restored, All M.D.C. is restored, character feels completely rested and at peace). What happens, and How they do it, is anyone’s guess really. All that the reborn character is aware of is a vague concept of how much time he has while he is “away” and a fleeting feeling of infinity. The experience, they say, is “very profound and peaceful… but I wouldn’t be that way forever.” After that though, the new character must save vs. 16 for each attempt that follows, with a cumulative -1 to save against for each try. Should the character fail ONCE, they have accidently achieved the Final Transition. Oops? *Edited
o It should be noted, the reborn character will instinctively understand this and know that it is not safe to try more than once a day. Most will never even try unless under the most dire of circumstances. They don’t want to ruin this new lease on life that they have by doing something that would have made it all pointless.
- New Nature: Certain abilities make themselves known to the new character, usually through experience, as the characters new nature develops.
o The character will find they no longer require food, water, sleep or rest. In fact, they will only see the concept of eating food, drinking or sleeping as an experience to be enjoyed and can do so if they choose to (the character will enjoy “bad” food and drink, since they can’t get sick from most normal things), but they simply no longer require these things to sustain their wellbeing and livelihood. Instead, they seem to survive by “eating” ambient magical energy.
o Metamorphosis: The character now change shape, at will, into any living being (animal, mortal, and supernatural) with a few limitations.
 The character cannot metamorphosis into an inanimate object or an insect (Unless through spell magic)
 Minimum size cannot be smaller than a squirrel and cannot exceed the characters size by a factor of 5 (I.E. if the character is five (5) feet tall, the TALLEST they’d be able to change shape is twenty (20) feet tall)
 Time Limit: This metamorphosis can only be maintained for one (1) day per level of their NEW experience level. After the time limit has elapsed the character must spend at least one (1) hour in their natural form before trying to change again.
• This ability is usually used so that the new character can mingle with new/different creatures and societies/cultures. Try to “fit in”.
 Regardless of what size, form or shape the character takes, they still possess all of their natural abilities, knowledge and skills. (Imagine a squirrel dropping kicking a Dead Boy into a tree… I chuckled a little at the mental imagine…)

[Axelmania]

Player Characters can not advance past level 15.
Non-player characters may still be able to level up, but PCs cant.

http://palladiumbooks.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=200

24. Can pc or npc go beyond level 15? If so how do you find out how much experience it takes to get to the next level beyond 15 and what kind of bonuses do you get for your hand to hand skill? Also if your a spell caster can you get more P.P.E.?

Answer: The experience tables in the various Palladium games only go up to 15th level due to space limitations; however, it is possible for characters to advance beyond 15th (if the GM allows it). It is simply a matter of extrapolating. Take the difference in experience points for the O.C.C. between 14th and 15th level and use that as the amount needed for each level above 15th (Note: this is just a guideline, a GM who wishes to could double or triple the experience points needed to advance at these high levels). There is no upper limit other than what the GM will allow for their individual campaign. Spell casters that surpass 15th level will continue to receive their normal P.P.E. increase per each level.

"possible for characters" doesn't specify player or non-player, and given that the initial question asks about both and that isn't addressed, it appears to support the freedom being open to both.

While there is no singular hard amount, the GM is given 3 options: use 14-15, double it, or triple it. GMs can also enforce upper limits at will.

[eliakon]

Player Characters can not advance past level 15.
Non-player characters may still be able to level up, but PCs cant.

http://palladiumbooks.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=200

24. Can pc or npc go beyond level 15? If so how do you find out how much experience it takes to get to the next level beyond 15 and what kind of bonuses do you get for your hand to hand skill? Also if your a spell caster can you get more P.P.E.?

Answer: The experience tables in the various Palladium games only go up to 15th level due to space limitations; however, it is possible for characters to advance beyond 15th (if the GM allows it). It is simply a matter of extrapolating. Take the difference in experience points for the O.C.C. between 14th and 15th level and use that as the amount needed for each level above 15th (Note: this is just a guideline, a GM who wishes to could double or triple the experience points needed to advance at these high levels). There is no upper limit other than what the GM will allow for their individual campaign. Spell casters that surpass 15th level will continue to receive their normal P.P.E. increase per each level.

"possible for characters" doesn't specify player or non-player, and given that the initial question asks about both and that isn't addressed, it appears to support the freedom being open to both.

While there is no singular hard amount, the GM is given 3 options: use 14-15, double it, or triple it. GMs can also enforce upper limits at will.

That, possibly non canon, answer was written over a decade ago for RMB
RUE replaces RMB
Thus any rules from RUE that conflict with a rule in RMB will supplant the RMB rule and replace them.
RUE page 296 says "The maximum level a player character can reach is 15"
That means, that as of RUE...
...the maximum level a Player Character can reach is 15.
Dot.
Period.
End of sentence.
It really is as simple as that.
Now, sure a GM can change that as a house rule in their game if they like. But the official RAW is that the level cap is 15.

[Johnathan]

Player Characters can not advance past level 15.
Non-player characters may still be able to level up, but PCs cant.

http://palladiumbooks.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=200

24. Can pc or npc go beyond level 15? If so how do you find out how much experience it takes to get to the next level beyond 15 and what kind of bonuses do you get for your hand to hand skill? Also if your a spell caster can you get more P.P.E.?

Answer: The experience tables in the various Palladium games only go up to 15th level due to space limitations; however, it is possible for characters to advance beyond 15th (if the GM allows it). It is simply a matter of extrapolating. Take the difference in experience points for the O.C.C. between 14th and 15th level and use that as the amount needed for each level above 15th (Note: this is just a guideline, a GM who wishes to could double or triple the experience points needed to advance at these high levels). There is no upper limit other than what the GM will allow for their individual campaign. Spell casters that surpass 15th level will continue to receive their normal P.P.E. increase per each level.

"possible for characters" doesn't specify player or non-player, and given that the initial question asks about both and that isn't addressed, it appears to support the freedom being open to both.

While there is no singular hard amount, the GM is given 3 options: use 14-15, double it, or triple it. GMs can also enforce upper limits at will.

/Snip

Now, sure a GM can change that as a house rule in their game if they like. But the official RAW is that the level cap is 15.

Well, obviously, yes. We're jumping right in to non canon, house ruling and home brewing here. However, I'm also trying to stay true to the class and feel of the character as well. I've already received some good input for things that didn't quite fit appropriately.

Such as immortality not quite fitting with a creature of magic. That's more supernatural creatures than creatures of magic. Most creatures of magic eventually die, even if their lifespans measure in the tens of thousands of years. Except for fairies.

Also that I should probably get rid of the discorporate aspect and leave that more to the Taoists.

[Zamion138]

Anyone arguing that ypu cant be level 16 as a near immortal mage because its not written is really arguing for no fun allowed. Its clearly a thought experiment that through normal game play will never happen
. Quit poo pooing his idea you come off as joy kills that cant imagine something unwritten.

At level 30 transcending to the 4th dimension should nearly be a requirement.

[Johnathan]

Anyone arguing that ypu cant be level 16 as a near immortal mage because its not written is really arguing for no fun allowed. Its clearly a thought experiment that through normal game play will never happen
. Quit poo pooing his idea you come off as joy kills that cant imagine something unwritten.

At level 30 transcending to the 4th dimension should nearly be a requirement.

A fun idea there that I hadn't considered! Achieving a 4th dimensional transformation! I think that would be easily achievable by just using the Temporal Spell 4D Transformation as a permanent basis. The Magus would gain all of the powers and abilities of the transformation permanently.

Good idea!

[blade76]

The idea of a 4D permanent transformation I think should be the final capstone with the option to permanently discorporate. I also think "One with the Body" should include body control and shapeshifting in it's description . Also have you taught to experiment with improved ppe manipulation abilities such as those enjoyed by a ley line walker but more advanced. Still great work!!! Hope you incorporate our suggestions into your work . Cheers

[eliakon]

Player Characters can not advance past level 15.
Non-player characters may still be able to level up, but PCs cant.

http://palladiumbooks.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=200

24. Can pc or npc go beyond level 15? If so how do you find out how much experience it takes to get to the next level beyond 15 and what kind of bonuses do you get for your hand to hand skill? Also if your a spell caster can you get more P.P.E.?

Answer: The experience tables in the various Palladium games only go up to 15th level due to space limitations; however, it is possible for characters to advance beyond 15th (if the GM allows it). It is simply a matter of extrapolating. Take the difference in experience points for the O.C.C. between 14th and 15th level and use that as the amount needed for each level above 15th (Note: this is just a guideline, a GM who wishes to could double or triple the experience points needed to advance at these high levels). There is no upper limit other than what the GM will allow for their individual campaign. Spell casters that surpass 15th level will continue to receive their normal P.P.E. increase per each level.

"possible for characters" doesn't specify player or non-player, and given that the initial question asks about both and that isn't addressed, it appears to support the freedom being open to both.

While there is no singular hard amount, the GM is given 3 options: use 14-15, double it, or triple it. GMs can also enforce upper limits at will.

/Snip

Now, sure a GM can change that as a house rule in their game if they like. But the official RAW is that the level cap is 15.

Well, obviously, yes. We're jumping right in to non canon, house ruling and home brewing here. However, I'm also trying to stay true to the class and feel of the character as well. I've already received some good input for things that didn't quite fit appropriately.

Such as immortality not quite fitting with a creature of magic. That's more supernatural creatures than creatures of magic. Most creatures of magic eventually die, even if their lifespans measure in the tens of thousands of years. Except for fairies.

Also that I should probably get rid of the discorporate aspect and leave that more to the Taoists.

I'm sorry your taking this as a snipe at your idea.
It was more a point at Axle.

For my own .02c worth my only issue with raising the level powers of the Magus class is this...
...it quickly gets into the question of "Okay, so your getting more powers and abilities than the people (The Lords of Magic) who are sponsoring/Empowering you have"

The, personal, solution for me would be to have the person start getting the powers from the demigod/godling in Pantheons... as they slowly become a member of the Lords pantheon...

[glitterboy2098]

i would argue that lv15 is the natural point to break out the changing classes rules. you don't lose anything if your lv15 class freezes, and now your guy has a whole new class to develop. and the penalty to gain past that 1st level in the new class is usually less than it took to go from 14 to 15 in your old one.

[Eagle]

For my own .02c worth my only issue with raising the level powers of the Magus class is this...
...it quickly gets into the question of "Okay, so your getting more powers and abilities than the people (The Lords of Magic) who are sponsoring/Empowering you have"

The, personal, solution for me would be to have the person start getting the powers from the demigod/godling in Pantheons... as they slowly become a member of the Lords pantheon...

I kind of agree with this. You should probably start becoming more like the Lords of Magic themselves. Makes the most sense to me, given that you're supposedly learning from them.

[Johnathan]

For my own .02c worth my only issue with raising the level powers of the Magus class is this...
...it quickly gets into the question of "Okay, so your getting more powers and abilities than the people (The Lords of Magic) who are sponsoring/Empowering you have"

The, personal, solution for me would be to have the person start getting the powers from the demigod/godling in Pantheons... as they slowly become a member of the Lords pantheon...

I kind of agree with this. You should probably start becoming more like the Lords of Magic themselves. Makes the most sense to me, given that you're supposedly learning from them.

I considered this early on but comparing the Lord Magus OCC clearly goes on a path that is different than the Lords of Magic. Namely, and most importantly, is that the Lords of Magic are NOT creatures of magic. What they are isn't exactly clear but what is clear is that they are supernatural on a god-like level (pages 25-27 of FOM). Brethan D'zir, who is himself, a 24th level Lord Magus doesn't even follow the OCC accurately. He isn't even defined as a creature of magic at any point in his write up, as he should be.

In truth the Lord Magus is not like The Three. They are something completely different.

Even Gods aren't defined as creatures of magic, but supernatural creatures. There are defining characteristics between creatures of magic and supernatural creatures. One of them being that creatures of magic age, grow old and, eventually, die (fairies being an exception to this rule, yet they don't advance, gain anything or grow in really ANY way at all. They're static beings). Supernatural creatures do not age.

Now, gaining prestige, honor, respect and acknowledgement as a member of The Three's "pantheon" is not an option I had thought of. Since they don't really require worshippers or insist that they be worshipped (they, in fact, admonish it, if I recall correctly). It's not really fitting the theme. Though, at this point, a Lord Magus would become elevated to a being of power on par with a Godling... it's always possible!

[Nekira Sudacne]

Technically the lords of magic are mute on the subject of their own divinity or lack thereof. there are worshipers who follow them around in public they at least tolerate. other ones they frown on who are more active. I think the implication is they don't require worshipers but don't care if people do worship them as long as they don't harm anyone in doing so. it's organized religions in their name or mortals trying to write their own dogma about them that they tend to smack down.

[Genhuman]

Alright. Just going to put this in. It probably won't help any with the discussion.

By Cannon, per RUE, you can't go above level 15.

As a GM, if I were following this rule, I would say fine. I would allow the person to become Multi-class without the usual penalties.

Now we come to the part that is all me, and my own personal head cannon.

Of course, there is the other part of me. The part that says, hey, these guys have great power. Not only do they have great power, they actually borrowed it from a more powerful being. The magus classes are, in essence, pact classes. So what happens if they try and go above level 15? They shimmer, appear to become pure magic, and merge with the magic flowing all around, or that is what the legends say happens.

What actually happens, is the Lords of Magic reabsorb their power fragment and the vessel who had been carrying said fragment and causing it to grow in power. With this new found power they have just absorbed, they can now afford to empower 15 more 1st level Magi, or keep the power around if they feel they will need it. The choice is up to them, but in the long run, my whole 'head cannon' reason for what they are doing with the magus classes, is building their power; both as a physical power base/kingdom to reside in, and their own personal well of power.

Take of this what you will.

[Johnathan]

Alright. Just going to put this in. It probably won't help any with the discussion.

By Cannon, per RUE, you can't go above level 15.

As a GM, if I were following this rule, I would say fine. I would allow the person to become Multi-class without the usual penalties.

Now we come to the part that is all me, and my own personal head cannon.

Of course, there is the other part of me. The part that says, hey, these guys have great power. Not only do they have great power, they actually borrowed it from a more powerful being. The magus classes are, in essence, pact classes. So what happens if they try and go above level 15? They shimmer, appear to become pure magic, and merge with the magic flowing all around, or that is what the legends say happens.

What actually happens, is the Lords of Magic reabsorb their power fragment and the vessel who had been carrying said fragment and causing it to grow in power. With this new found power they have just absorbed, they can now afford to empower 15 more 1st level Magi, or keep the power around if they feel they will need it. The choice is up to them, but in the long run, my whole 'head cannon' reason for what they are doing with the magus classes, is building their power; both as a physical power base/kingdom to reside in, and their own personal well of power.

Take of this what you will.

Well! This is a different approach... it's dark, grim and a little nihilistic. I want to touch base on several points made in your post though and am open to discussion.

1 - I've accepted that, according to canon (well, the canon of RUE anyway), a character is not permitted to go beyond level 15. I cannot hardly consider any of this canon. Though, as I did say in a previous post. I'm trying to stay true to the OCC and character of the class.

2 - honorable of you to bypass the usual penalties associated with moving into a different class. I tip my hat.

3 - I'm going to have to disagree with you in the assessment that the Magus classes are pact classes. If anything, the only one that comes even close to that statement is the High Magus OCC. Of which, it is stated that the High Magus are treatment more like a priest than a witch. They funnel the power of the Three in order to use their magic and gain spells like they do. However, The Three may have a BOND with these High Magi but they don't function like a Witch pact really at all. The Three do not splinter off their essence and fuse it with their Magi. It just doesn't work that way. Even then, the Magus classes dedicated years to becoming spell casters. The Lord Magi alone spends over a decade learning and developing before they even get to level 1. The "bond" shared by the High Magi and The Three allows certain privileges and also allows The Three a certain degree of know how in regards to those Magi, but that isn't really something expressed in the other classes.

4 - besides that, seems like an interesting interpretation and angle on these Classes. That they are, in essence, bound to their Lords in some esoteric fashion. It's not an angle I had considered.

[Genhuman]

As I said, this was my own personal head cannon.

Some of the things that caused me to turn Dweomer and the LoM this direction include but are not limited to:

1: How it mentions they all form a bond with their students. I agree, it is not as full or all inclusive of a pact that is formed by witches. They use an even tinier fragment, and then through training and hard work, turn people into mages. Why do I think this may be the case...

2: Per page 17 of both versions of WB16: approximately 43.5% of their population is trained in magic. That doesn't count the supernatural beings and creatures of magic which compose another 14.5%. Disregard the supernatural and apply some simple math, and that means that just under 51% of their mundane population is trained in magic. The magical aptitude in humans (and by extrapolation most d-bees) is quite a bit lower than that, but they still manage to have that many trained magic wielders amongst the population. Suggests to me they have the means to make people magic capable, over and above normal aptitude.

3: Was just me asking, why would the LoM do something like this. What are the primary motivations for any being. Procreation is out. That leaves growing and prospering and gaining more power is a good way to do that. They have an alien morality. Why not use the resources at hand, aka the mundanes.

[Genhuman]

Oh, and going back to what you may see their abilities continuing to be after 15, my own list is quite a bit simpler.

Level 16: Able to learn 11th level spells
Level 17: Able to learn 12th level spells
Level 18: Able to learn 13th level spells
Level 19: Able to learn 14th level spells
Level 20: Able to learn 15th level spells

Since they are limited to a max of level 10 spells (except for illusions) it seemed a good bonus.

[Johnathan]

Oh, and going back to what you may see their abilities continuing to be after 15, my own list is quite a bit simpler.

Level 16: Able to learn 11th level spells
Level 17: Able to learn 12th level spells
Level 18: Able to learn 13th level spells
Level 19: Able to learn 14th level spells
Level 20: Able to learn 15th level spells

Since they are limited to a max of level 10 spells (except for illusions) it seemed a good bonus.

Huh. Good idea.

I'd actually rule it, were I the GM entertaining this progression, that once they bypass level 15 (I.E. - gained level 16), that all spells level 11-15 become available for choosing but suffer the same selection process as the Lord Magus has done thus far. Basically, they can now pick spells from levels 11-15 but can only select ONE spell from those levels, per level of experience.

This actually makes some sort of semblance of reason. Since even Brethan D'zir, a 24th level Lord Magus, has all spells level 1-15 available to him.

My GM and I, actually, have both agreed that the spell restriction in the OCC is kinda bunk. I'm currently playing a Lord Magus, he has played one previously. My character has been able to select spells from levels 11-15 but it's more that he prefers NOT to use those spells, but continues to rely on lower level spells. Which is true. He has a handful (literally - 5) of spells in the 11-15 range. These spells though are not spells he uses often, or can: Scroll, Talisman, Energy Sphere, Anti-Magic Cloud and Heavy Air.

As you can imagine... he doesn't really get the chance to use these spells frequently.