Jesus Christ Lizard

[LostOne]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basiliscus_(genus)

So this is a real animal that can run on water for a distance. Youtube them if you're unfamiliar. I was curious if anyone had theorized or done some math to try to figure out if this thing was made the size of a human how much would it weigh and how fast would it be moving and if it could still run on water. End game being: how fast does a human of approximately _____ weight need to run to run on water for a distance? Could be applicable for speedsters, Rifts juicers, etc.

[eliakon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basiliscus_(genus)

So this is a real animal that can run on water for a distance. Youtube them if you're unfamiliar. I was curious if anyone had theorized or done some math to try to figure out if this thing was made the size of a human how much would it weigh and how fast would it be moving and if it could still run on water. End game being: how fast does a human of approximately _____ weight need to run to run on water for a distance? Could be applicable for speedsters, Rifts juicers, etc.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... oject.html

The issue is not just speed, it is a matter of foot surface area vs water tension vs weight (and a lot of other factors)

That said... I am sure that it could be calculated. I just have no idea in the slightest how to do so.
I just thought the above link was neat and was some interesting ideas.

[Stone Gargoyle]

This seems more of a question for After The Bomb, as it involves calculating an animal's ability.

[Blight]

I found a calculation for it and it say's a 200lbs man would have to run at a speed of 20-30m/sec.

[Razorwing]

I found a calculation for it and it say's a 200lbs man would have to run at a speed of 20-30m/sec.

So roughly 1100 kmph... just under the speed of sound. So a character with Sonic Speed should be able to "run" on water at top speeds... at least the physics say it should be possible, so long as they can maintain that speed (though sudden turns, such as dodging attacks, would probably cause a drop in speed that could be enough to cause them problems in this regard).

[LostOne]

Well I guess that answers that then. Only sonic speed characters. Easier to remember than some calculation.

[Daniel Stoker]

Unless you have a way to decrease your mass or really funky boots that won't mess with your running speed which frankly would be a lot harder to manage.


Daniel Stoker

[The Artist Formerly]

I've always let any of the super runners just do it (pun). They need some practice to get their stride, but other then that, if you've got super speed, why not? This is a game about breaking physics just for the hell of it. Let the players have some fun.

[Zer0 Kay]

Unless you have a way to decrease your mass or really funky boots that won't mess with your running speed which frankly would be a lot harder to manage.


Daniel Stoker

Don't have to decrease mass, just weight. An anti-gravity field would help accomplish this while a out-of-phase field would not.

[Daniel Stoker]

If you're out of phase though wouldn't you automatically be able to walk on water?


Daniel Stoker

[Zer0 Kay]

Dunnoh. If your out of phase you walk on floors but pass through walls... So do you phase through water? If it is determined by will then why is it just floors, why not use the air as stAIRs?

[eliakon]

I've always let any of the super runners just do it (pun). They need some practice to get their stride, but other then that, if you've got super speed, why not? This is a game about breaking physics just for the hell of it. Let the players have some fun.

Depending on the particular game I might allow that... or not.
*shrugs*
Some games we bring in all the tropes and hijinks of the 4 color comics and Saturday morning TV, and in that it fits perfectly and would be allowed in with out an eye blink
Some games we go for other flavors of super hero style games, and some of those flavors don't mix well with 'super speed on water'. Some might though.

[Daniel Stoker]

I wasn’t sure either but after looking it up the power says that they can walk on “smoke or fog” as well as water, so looks like that answers our question.


Daniel Stoker

[Zer0 Kay]

I wasn’t sure either but after looking it up the power says that they can walk on “smoke or fog” as well as water, so looks like that answers our question.


Daniel Stoker

Yup. And thanks for doing the legwork.

[Zer0 Kay]

I wasn’t sure either but after looking it up the power says that they can walk on “smoke or fog” as well as water, so looks like that answers our question.


Daniel Stoker

So then.... Wait so is ones weight reduced? Can they now jump higher too? Or does their weight remain the same and their mass just change?

[Razorwing]

Neither... his weight and mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered allowing him to pass through solid objects yet but also allowing one to walk on things that would normally not be dense enough to support one's weight and mass. This is why one needs smoke/fog to walk upon rather than just air... air is still not dense enough to support the weight and mass of even an intangible person.

[The Artist Formerly]

I've always let any of the super runners just do it (pun). They need some practice to get their stride, but other then that, if you've got super speed, why not? This is a game about breaking physics just for the hell of it. Let the players have some fun.

Depending on the particular game I might allow that... or not.
*shrugs*
Some games we bring in all the tropes and hijinks of the 4 color comics and Saturday morning TV, and in that it fits perfectly and would be allowed in with out an eye blink
Some games we go for other flavors of super hero style games, and some of those flavors don't mix well with 'super speed on water'. Some might though.

I see where you're coming from on that, it's just tends to get a little weird if one tries to inject too much real world into the game. Those newton laws can really wreck up a good fight, if you feel me. I tend to run with the idea that trademarked laser sword space battles are cool, and all the reasons such a thing could practically exist are lame.

Besides, a pc could have dropped a power selection on flight wingless instead of extraordinary speed, so I want to reward creativity and adding game play.

[Zer0 Kay]

Neither... his weight and mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered allowing him to pass through solid objects yet but also allowing one to walk on things that would normally not be dense enough to support one's weight and mass. This is why one needs smoke/fog to walk upon rather than just air... air is still not dense enough to support the weight and mass of even an intangible person.

If his weight an mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered then he would grow larger as the molecules spread apart in order to allow him to maintain his mass and weight.

[eliakon]

Neither... his weight and mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered allowing him to pass through solid objects yet but also allowing one to walk on things that would normally not be dense enough to support one's weight and mass. This is why one needs smoke/fog to walk upon rather than just air... air is still not dense enough to support the weight and mass of even an intangible person.

If his weight an mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered then he would grow larger as the molecules spread apart in order to allow him to maintain his mass and weight.

Only if we apply our worlds laws of physics.
And trying to do that kills Catgirls.
Please. Think of the Catgirls.
Don't analyze comic physics! (or fantasy physics, or Rifts physics, or magic, or...)

Seriously, in a game where you can run a super sonic speeds, turn on a dime, and have no friction issues; where straight arming someone at 300MPH just does damage to them not you; where bullets just stun; where battleship guns do less damage than tank guns; where people turn into other materials all the time, with out changing weight; where fireballs don't cause fires or burns; where electricity is a safe weapon that goes in a direct line with no deviations or grounding; where solar sails are one of the main faster than light drives...which have no time dilation... I'm not terribly worried about trying to figure out how the density of phased objects works.

All I care about is "What does the techno-babble say for this power?" "Does this trope work for this game or not?" beyond that its not going to hold up to any level of scrutiny whatsoever so why bother trying?

[Razorwing]

Neither... his weight and mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered allowing him to pass through solid objects yet but also allowing one to walk on things that would normally not be dense enough to support one's weight and mass. This is why one needs smoke/fog to walk upon rather than just air... air is still not dense enough to support the weight and mass of even an intangible person.

If his weight an mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered then he would grow larger as the molecules spread apart in order to allow him to maintain his mass and weight.

That is assuming that altering molecular density makes molecules grow larger. There are other ways to affect density. Vibrations can turn an area of sand into quicksand (lowering density) without significantly altering the volume of the sand.

Plus we also have to remember that walking on things like smoke or water requires the intangible character to maintain a high level of concentration... using up 3 attacks per melee to maintain (while just being intangible doesn't need as much concentration).

[Zer0 Kay]

Neither... his weight and mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered allowing him to pass through solid objects yet but also allowing one to walk on things that would normally not be dense enough to support one's weight and mass. This is why one needs smoke/fog to walk upon rather than just air... air is still not dense enough to support the weight and mass of even an intangible person.

If his weight an mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered then he would grow larger as the molecules spread apart in order to allow him to maintain his mass and weight.

That is assuming that altering molecular density makes molecules grow larger. There are other ways to affect density. Vibrations can turn an area of sand into quicksand (lowering density) without significantly altering the volume of the sand.

Plus we also have to remember that walking on things like smoke or water requires the intangible character to maintain a high level of concentration... using up 3 attacks per melee to maintain (while just being intangible doesn't need as much concentration).

Does it? So if you start vibrating a body of sand you can then add more water into it? Or does it just change the sands viscosity as the individual granuals are no longer supporting their neighbors?

Does it say that about OP fields?

[Zer0 Kay]

Neither... his weight and mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered allowing him to pass through solid objects yet but also allowing one to walk on things that would normally not be dense enough to support one's weight and mass. This is why one needs smoke/fog to walk upon rather than just air... air is still not dense enough to support the weight and mass of even an intangible person.

If his weight an mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered then he would grow larger as the molecules spread apart in order to allow him to maintain his mass and weight.

Only if we apply our worlds laws of physics.
And trying to do that kills Catgirls.
Please. Think of the Catgirls.
Don't analyze comic physics! (or fantasy physics, or Rifts physics, or magic, or...)

Seriously, in a game where you can run a super sonic speeds, turn on a dime, and have no friction issues; where straight arming someone at 300MPH just does damage to them not you; where bullets just stun; where battleship guns do less damage than tank guns; where people turn into other materials all the time, with out changing weight; where fireballs don't cause fires or burns; where electricity is a safe weapon that goes in a direct line with no deviations or grounding; where solar sails are one of the main faster than light drives...which have no time dilation... I'm not terribly worried about trying to figure out how the density of phased objects works.

All I care about is "What does the techno-babble say for this power?" "Does this trope work for this game or not?" beyond that its not going to hold up to any level of scrutiny whatsoever so why bother trying?

I'M SORRY NUKU NUKU!!!!!

You forgot where small arms do more damage than a tank gun.

[Razorwing]

Neither... his weight and mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered allowing him to pass through solid objects yet but also allowing one to walk on things that would normally not be dense enough to support one's weight and mass. This is why one needs smoke/fog to walk upon rather than just air... air is still not dense enough to support the weight and mass of even an intangible person.

If his weight an mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered then he would grow larger as the molecules spread apart in order to allow him to maintain his mass and weight.

That is assuming that altering molecular density makes molecules grow larger. There are other ways to affect density. Vibrations can turn an area of sand into quicksand (lowering density) without significantly altering the volume of the sand.

Plus we also have to remember that walking on things like smoke or water requires the intangible character to maintain a high level of concentration... using up 3 attacks per melee to maintain (while just being intangible doesn't need as much concentration).

Does it? So if you start vibrating a body of sand you can then add more water into it? Or does it just change the sands viscosity as the individual granuals are no longer supporting their neighbors?

Does it say that about OP fields?

The point is that there are more than a single way to look at how a power works. The power states that it is affecting the molecular bonds of the individual... not their mass or weight. How you choose to interpret that is up to you (but trying to apply real world physics to powers that tend to defy the known laws of physics doesn't always work). One person's intangibility may involve vibrations... another may be accessing a dimension where he is slightly out of sync with matter... while another might actually be altering the material he passes through so that it is passing through him rather than he passing through it. There isn't a single "right" answer to how these powers work... just that they all have the same results (and thus are represented by the same game mechanic).

[Zer0 Kay]

Neither... his weight and mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered allowing him to pass through solid objects yet but also allowing one to walk on things that would normally not be dense enough to support one's weight and mass. This is why one needs smoke/fog to walk upon rather than just air... air is still not dense enough to support the weight and mass of even an intangible person.

If his weight an mass remain the same but his molecular density is altered then he would grow larger as the molecules spread apart in order to allow him to maintain his mass and weight.

That is assuming that altering molecular density makes molecules grow larger. There are other ways to affect density. Vibrations can turn an area of sand into quicksand (lowering density) without significantly altering the volume of the sand.

Plus we also have to remember that walking on things like smoke or water requires the intangible character to maintain a high level of concentration... using up 3 attacks per melee to maintain (while just being intangible doesn't need as much concentration).

Does it? So if you start vibrating a body of sand you can then add more water into it? Or does it just change the sands viscosity as the individual granuals are no longer supporting their neighbors?

Does it say that about OP fields?

The point is that there are more than a single way to look at how a power works. The power states that it is affecting the molecular bonds of the individual... not their mass or weight. How you choose to interpret that is up to you (but trying to apply real world physics to powers that tend to defy the known laws of physics doesn't always work). One person's intangibility may involve vibrations... another may be accessing a dimension where he is slightly out of sync with matter... while another might actually be altering the material he passes through so that it is passing through him rather than he passing through it. There isn't a single "right" answer to how these powers work... just that they all have the same results (and thus are represented by the same game mechanic).

I said out of phase field which infers the Phase world harness the power doesn't produce an out of phase field it just makes one out of phase. You assumed I meant the power, I did not. The harness only uses one type of out of phase it doesn't depend on which one you want it to use. So now going back to that does the Promethean tech device allow people to walk on smoke and fog? Does the Promethean tech device say how it puts a person out of phase and explain how they are able to walk on floors but walk through walls?