ITT we see how much we can minimize Moloch's genocidal rep

[Axelmania]

This is some 'devil's advocate' line of thinking here. Without actually contradicting the text, what are the lesser evils we might glean as to how it can be interpreted in a way that more could stomach it? A couple things I thought of.

1) I recall it mentioning the human population of Earth would be eliminated... but 'of Earth', well, couldn't that just mean kidnapping them to the Nightlands so there are none left on Earth?

2) it mentions genocide against humanity... but 'genocide' can have broad meanings such as 'cultural genocide', in which case, perhaps Moloch doesn't necessarily want to KILL ALL HUMANS, maybe he just wants to destroy our societies and incorporate us into his own?

There's no doubt that Moloch is a mass murderer willing to cull the herd. He has no qualms about eliminating prisoners or those who want to eat 0 calorie foods... but it that necessarily targeting ALL of us?

What if this is some kind of natural selection thing where he is trying to improve humanity by eliminating those he thinks lack impulse control and do not respect order or food choices?

To save the human species, perhaps in his diabolic view, might require killing many of us and destroying out societies and rebuilding culture from the ground up...

Very dark, but this wouldn't be as bad as the "KILL ALL HUMANS" view I used to have of him prior to taking a closer look and seeing how much wiggle room there was. I'm wondering where this is room to step away from this without contradicting text to come up with a more relatable villain who would inspire more followers and less of a 'I'm destroying the species' type which I think some think of him as.

[Razorwing]

To be honest... I don't see him as actually having to lift a finger to kill off humanity... humanity is doing a fine job of that themselves without any help from Moloch.

Sure... he is providing those who obsess over calories with food that has zero nutritional value... but they are labeled as such... it isn't his fault that they eat these foods and starve themselves to death.

Everyone knows that Colas are not good for you and should only be drunk sparingly... so it is people's own fault if they decide to over indulge in such a toxic substance.

Humans need very little reason to fight each other... just say that they are doing evil and the self-righteous will crusade against it. Appeal to national pride and the prideful will flock to your battlefield. Hell... tell the people that the "enemy" threatens their children and you will even be able to turn the gentlest mother into a rabid killer to protect her children.

Moloch doesn't need to kill humans directly... merely provide the means for them to kill themselves and let nature take its inevitable course.

[Jefffar]

Moloch is the guy who removes all the safety labels and lets nature take care of the rest then?

[Razorwing]

Not at all... Zero Foods blatantly states that the food has NO nutritional value... and that people NEED to eat other foods to remain healthy. If they decide to starve themselves by eating it exclusively... that is their choice... and he merely gives them that choice. He isn't forcing them to eat it... they force themselves to achieve an unrealistic body standard.

Same is true of most other plots he has... he merely provides the means for humanity to destroy themselves. He is like the arms manufacturers of today... he knows full well that what he does will result in human death, but he doesn't care... he merely makes things that can kill... it is the people who buy them that do the actual killing (even of themselves). In the end... it is humanity's own weaknesses that makes Moloch's plans work... he counts on them to do the foolish think and kill themselves.

Why waste energy actively killing people when they are more than eager to do all the work for you?

[Jefffar]

The killer with Zero foods isn't that you eat nothing when you eat it, but that it is addictive and will block your ability to get nutrition from other foods (IIRC).

I don't think that's on the label.

[Razorwing]

No... it isn't, but it takes a while for that to kick in... and in the mean time one can starve eating the food before it mutates them to the point where they can't get any nutrition from any food (and there is nothing that says it is addictive).

It still relies on people CHOOSING to eat the food. the mutagen hasn't been put into regular food stocks... just as only that one particular Cola brand has been poisoned so far. People still have a choice of what to eat or drink... Moloch is merely relying on the vanity and sugar addiction of people to get them to kill themselves with these poison plots.

[Nightmask]

No... it isn't, but it takes a while for that to kick in... and in the mean time one can starve eating the food before it mutates them to the point where they can't get any nutrition from any food (and there is nothing that says it is addictive).

It still relies on people CHOOSING to eat the food. the mutagen hasn't been put into regular food stocks... just as only that one particular Cola brand has been poisoned so far. People still have a choice of what to eat or drink... Moloch is merely relying on the vanity and sugar addiction of people to get them to kill themselves with these poison plots.

The fact remains that humans, left to their own devices, wouldn't be heading towards extinction like they are without the involvement of the Night Lords. They are actively sabotaging human effort to make the world better and one of those methods is the lethal food that they're marketing and encouraging people to get hooked on. Every step humanity has made to improve the human condition and ensure its survival they're actively destroying and undermining.

[Axelmania]

Sure... he is providing those who obsess over calories with food that has zero nutritional value... but they are labeled as such... it isn't his fault that they eat these foods and starve themselves to death.

Everyone knows that Colas are not good for you and should only be drunk sparingly... so it is people's own fault if they decide to over indulge in such a toxic substance.

It's more than that, the book specifies that having 1 a day consistently for a year makes you unable to metabolize food. So it's not so much that he's punishing people who ONLY eat this and ignore other food. People who eat healthy food too will also die.

Moloch doesn't need to kill humans directly... merely provide the means for them to kill themselves and let nature take its inevitable course.

Maybe not, but he is IS directly killing them by running the poisoning scheme. My point is that he's not targeting ALL humans by just targeting the ones who can't only eat 0-calorie food 364 days a year.

The fact remains that humans, left to their own devices, wouldn't be heading towards extinction like they are without the involvement of the Night Lords. They are actively sabotaging human effort to make the world better and one of those methods is the lethal food that they're marketing and encouraging people to get hooked on. Every step humanity has made to improve the human condition and ensure its survival they're actively destroying and undermining.

Moloch's foods could not possibly make humanity go extinct. They basically target food addicts with money to burn, because you can't be harmed by it if you go 1 day a year where you don't eat it. It only murders those so prone to addiction that they can't kick this habit for a single planetary rotation per solar cycle. You could eat his 0 cal food 364 days, go off it 1 day, and the counter resets.

No matter how cheap this food is, it's bound to be expensive enough that a lot of poor people aren't going to eat it 365 days a year, opting for spending their limited money on food with nutritional value.