Need help please

[boxee]

Hi my old friends,
I remember reading the nano-plague stops working when characters are no longer on the splicers world/dimension. I remember it takes some time but the nano-plague leaves the persons system. Any of you guys remember where this is in the rules/setting? Thank you in advanced for the help!
Boxee.

[TagsPB]

Hi my old friends,
I remember reading the nano-plague stops working when characters are no longer on the splicers world/dimension. I remember it takes some time but the nano-plague leaves the persons system. Any of you guys remember where this is in the rules/setting? Thank you in advanced for the help!
Boxee.

Page 13 of the Main Book discusses this but doesn't say how long'if characters are ever free of the plague.

[boxee]

Thanks!

[Shark_Force]

honestly, if the nano-plague is not self-propagating (the machines are still pumping out nanite swarms last i heard, so it probably isn't) then it should probably be completely wiped out by a typical human's built-in nanowarfare defense suite (more frequently called your immune system) some time after exposure ends.

that said, last i recall the book says you never get rid of the plague, and you also never spread it. this makes absolutely no sense, for the record; either the swarm self-propagates and has no reason to not spread (which seems unlikely, again, considering the machines are still mass-producing nanites) or the swarm doesn't self-propagate and should be destroyed over a relatively short period of time.

i have no scientifically supported source for how long it should take to clear out nanites, but i do recall that in shadowrun it would take about a month (less in certain situations, like if there was some blood loss) for your body's natural defenses to kill off nanites that didn't have a means of replenishing themselves. your mileage may vary, however.

[boxee]

Thanks Shark_Force that helps a bit, good to see you on the forums!

[BookWyrm]

For sake of argument, let's say that, if the nano-plague (for lack of a better term) 'deactivates' after a certain time the exposed person is off the Splicers' world/dimension, there has to be something that keeps it going when still in said realm.

Theory One: There is a sub-frequency radio signal, long forgotten by all (Even The Machine) that links the nano-plague world-wide, but not enough for it to become an independent hive-mind, and this makes sure it keeps running. The nano-plague survives by running off the natural electrical field produced by the living body. The Resistance does not have the capability nor the technology tpo find this signal & stop it. The Machine, in all it's madness, has forgotten this exists.

Theory Two: Certain unique elements on the Splicers world are required to keep the nano-plague active & running. Once away from the main source for a certain amount of time, the plague goes dormant, but is still present, permanently. The plague 'wakes up' if the person returns to the Splicers' world & resumes function. No 'second infection' occurs.

[eliakon]

For sake of argument, let's say that, if the nano-plague (for lack of a better term) 'deactivates' after a certain time the exposed person is off the Splicers' world/dimension, there has to be something that keeps it going when still in said realm.

Theory One: There is a sub-frequency radio signal, long forgotten by all (Even The Machine) that links the nano-plague world-wide, but not enough for it to become an independent hive-mind, and this makes sure it keeps running. The nano-plague survives by running off the natural electrical field produced by the living body. The Resistance does not have the capability nor the technology tpo find this signal & stop it. The Machine, in all it's madness, has forgotten this exists.

Theory Two: Certain unique elements on the Splicers world are required to keep the nano-plague active & running. Once away from the main source for a certain amount of time, the plague goes dormant, but is still present, permanently. The plague 'wakes up' if the person returns to the Splicers' world & resumes function. No 'second infection' occurs.

Why stop there?
When I was trying to figure out how I could explain the Splicers world in the context of the wider Megaverse I noticed that the Biotechnology and Nano-technology are very similar to that of the Genesplicers... and their ancient rivals the Dominators. And there is a reference to "alien DNA" in the biotech...
From there I extrapolated backwards and had the Machine and the Nanoplague be linked to a research on a salvaged alien artifact.
The machine doesn't really know what the nanoplague is per se because its Elder Race technology, which explains how it can make robots, alter mass, react to flesh through containers, and 'know' if something is a live or dead or the 'right kind' of alive.
Following up on this... if you want to have the plague 'stand down' after a time in other worlds, it could need to stay close to the 'master swarm'.

Which, btw may BE the Machine. Maybe the reason the Resistance can't find the mainframes that the Machine is running on... is because the Machine is actually running on a distributed network comprised of billions and billions of nanites... aka the Nanoplague.
oops

[Slight001]

Maybe the reason the Resistance can't find the mainframes that the Machine is running on... is because the Machine is actually running on a distributed network comprised of billions and billions of nanites... aka the Nanoplague.
oops

That is probably the best plot twist I've seen in regards to splicers in a long while.

[Shark_Force]

For sake of argument, let's say that, if the nano-plague (for lack of a better term) 'deactivates' after a certain time the exposed person is off the Splicers' world/dimension, there has to be something that keeps it going when still in said realm.

Theory One: There is a sub-frequency radio signal, long forgotten by all (Even The Machine) that links the nano-plague world-wide, but not enough for it to become an independent hive-mind, and this makes sure it keeps running. The nano-plague survives by running off the natural electrical field produced by the living body. The Resistance does not have the capability nor the technology tpo find this signal & stop it. The Machine, in all it's madness, has forgotten this exists.

Theory Two: Certain unique elements on the Splicers world are required to keep the nano-plague active & running. Once away from the main source for a certain amount of time, the plague goes dormant, but is still present, permanently. The plague 'wakes up' if the person returns to the Splicers' world & resumes function. No 'second infection' occurs.

it doesn't require anything of the sort.

the nano-plague needs to draw power from somewhere if it's supposed to do the things it does. once the battery runs dry, that's the end of it.

furthermore, as i believe i've already mentioned, you probably have a built-in nanowarfare suite that defends you from nanoassault. so do i. and so do most people. it is called an immune system, and it is quite effective.

lastly, we know the machine continues to produce and spread the nanoplague. which means that by default, the nanoplague is getting defeated, otherwise there's no need to spread it anywhere; it's already in everything. they should only need to continue producing it if it doesn't continue to produce itself, and if it is constantly being depleted by something.

[BookWyrm]

Just theorizing, Shark.

[Shark_Force]

sorry, i sometimes come off a bit strong =S

but basically, i'm just saying we don't need any special explanations. we already know the machine is constantly spraying nanoplague bots into the air, which explains why it doesn't run out. you don't need to come up with anything too unusual. there's a very simple explanation why the nanoplague doesn't run out on the splicers world while allowing it to run out anywhere else.

(and i don't know why they put that there, really... unless you're talking about the technologies that they never let any player get, i don't think there's anything made of metal that would substantially power up splicers characters more than being splicers characters would do =P )

[BookWyrm]

sorry, i sometimes come off a bit strong =S

but basically, i'm just saying we don't need any special explanations. we already know the machine is constantly spraying nanoplague bots into the air, which explains why it doesn't run out. you don't need to come up with anything too unusual. there's a very simple explanation why the nanoplague doesn't run out on the splicers world while allowing it to run out anywhere else.

(and i don't know why they put that there, really... unless you're talking about the technologies that they never let any player get, i don't think there's anything made of metal that would substantially power up splicers characters more than being splicers characters would do =P )

I agree, Shark, but you have to admit, it is a little fun to speculate.

[eliakon]

sorry, i sometimes come off a bit strong =S

but basically, i'm just saying we don't need any special explanations. we already know the machine is constantly spraying nanoplague bots into the air, which explains why it doesn't run out. you don't need to come up with anything too unusual. there's a very simple explanation why the nanoplague doesn't run out on the splicers world while allowing it to run out anywhere else.

(and i don't know why they put that there, really... unless you're talking about the technologies that they never let any player get, i don't think there's anything made of metal that would substantially power up splicers characters more than being splicers characters would do =P )

As a cross-dimensional GM I would speculate that its That Guy that they are trying to head off at the pass.
Basically, they are saying that if you want to play a Splicer in the wider Megaverse (and its cool with your group) go for it...
...but you have to stay a 'pure' Splicer. You can't suddenly get rid of the plague and (As PCs are wont to do) instantly set aside all your cultural prejudices and such and start using metal and technology (TW devices and Magic Items are two of the more common offenders here, though things like phase beamners, forces field belts, and various heavy weapons are also popular) allowing you to have your cake and eat it to.

The characters in Splicers are crazy powerful... but they are in a world where they are faced with vast challenges and they have to use only their built in advantages because they literally can not use tools. The closest thing they can get is their super powerful 'mecha' and 'power armor' and a small selection of 'personal weapons'. But they can not follow the usual trope of a back pack full of "one of everything know to mankind, just in case it turns out to be needed". Its a genre convention and its a very interesting one and it works well in its setting. What it doesn't do though, is work when you can have the power implicit in that convention and still have the ability to also freely carry and use all the tools and toys that normal characters use to solve their problems. Or more of... it can, but the result tends to be extraordinarily high power gaming which can get out of hand quickly.

That sort of high tier power gaming while of interest to some people is not to everyone's taste. And based on the notes that Palladium repeatedly puts in the material around various other high power options (Mega Heroes are the most glaring example) I believe that "not everyone" includes the staff at Palladium and that the decision to summarily preempt that level of power was therefore a deliberate one.

Mind you this is all totally speculation on my part here and I could be wildly off base.

[Shark_Force]

i dunno. just seems pretty unnecessary. the splicers characters won't have the skills to use most of the interesting tools that couldn't be made without metal anyways. having a computer isn't terribly useful if it's all in a different language and requires several years of education to learn even the basics of (unless you have that kind of stuff in your background, as a typical person growing up surrounded by the tech will). and frankly, i think splicers heavy weapons stay ahead of rifts heavy weapons in a variety of ways anyways.

as to using TW devices, splicers characters will have no knowledge of magic anyways, and no psionics either. devices that don't require either of those things tend to be guns anyways, and splicers weapons are just better to begin with. apart from that, devices can just be made with precious metals for wiring, which won't set off the nanoplague anyways (and in fact, gold is great for that purpose... we just don't use it for that much because it's kinda expensive)

meanwhile, the group can no longer buy a party vehicle with any metal in it. that's just annoying, not a critical balance issue.

meanwhile, it really limits what you can play, because you need to somehow explain what a nutrient pool is doing or else all of the splicers handheld tech and body armour goes away, and that leaves only the classes that pack the most punch anyways. well, them plus saints, but frankly, a saint in a rifts game has enough of a drawback that i can't see a need to restrict them from using metal objects either.

[Nightmartree]

I'm curious where it says the machine is still producing nanites? As far as i'm aware it produced them, they replicated and are essentially everywhere on the splicers world and inside people in a dormant state until person meets metal and then they trigger into an active state modifying the item into a person killing machine. But I don't recall the machine being stated as still producing them?

[Shark_Force]

i don't know exact page number and i'm not gonna re-read the entire book... but on page 13 in the crossing dimensions information, going from the bottom of the first column to the top of the second, it explicitly and unequivocally states that the nanites do not self-replicate.

if i have more time, i might try and track down the reference to factories spewing clouds of nanites into the air, but... it's kind of a busy time of year, so i wouldn't count on it

[Slight001]

i don't know exact page number and i'm not gonna re-read the entire book... but on page 13 in the crossing dimensions information, going from the bottom of the first column to the top of the second, it explicitly and unequivocally states that the nanites do not self-replicate.

if i have more time, i might try and track down the reference to factories spewing clouds of nanites into the air, but... it's kind of a busy time of year, so i wouldn't count on it

I just glossed over the book looking at sections that pertained to the plague and/or manufacturing. The results were zero hits on what is producing the nano plague only that it can't self replicate... which was likely done to preserve the world's a splicers character might visit... I'd imagine the federation of magic would love to get its hands on the nano plague.

[eliakon]

i don't know exact page number and i'm not gonna re-read the entire book... but on page 13 in the crossing dimensions information, going from the bottom of the first column to the top of the second, it explicitly and unequivocally states that the nanites do not self-replicate.

if i have more time, i might try and track down the reference to factories spewing clouds of nanites into the air, but... it's kind of a busy time of year, so i wouldn't count on it

I just glossed over the book looking at sections that pertained to the plague and/or manufacturing. The results were zero hits on what is producing the nano plague only that it can't self replicate... which was likely done to preserve the world's a splicers character might visit... I'd imagine the federation of magic would love to get its hands on the nano plague.

Yeah, if the plague self replicated then any contact with the Splicers world by other worlds (such as would be required to allow any form of cross world play) would result in the total destruction of the other world.
As most GMs don't find the idea of having their game worlds be reduced to depopulated non-technological hellscapes, especially if there is no ready pool of superscience bio-tech to take its place.... nay nay on the replication.

I can see it now
<GM> "Well okay, so Bobs character shows up."
<Group> "Hello Bob"
<GM>"And brings the Nano-plauge"
<Group> "Wait, what?"
<GM> "I am afraid that you will all have to roll on the plague tables to see if you survive having all your equipment turn into murder bots and try and kill you."
<Group> "Uhhh"
<GM> "Well, looks like the entire world was just killed off. And due to the random rifts Bob has now wiped out most civilization in the Megaverse."
<Group> "..."
<GM> "Well, oops. Oh well. Sooo what do we want to play now."

[Shark_Force]

i don't know exact page number and i'm not gonna re-read the entire book... but on page 13 in the crossing dimensions information, going from the bottom of the first column to the top of the second, it explicitly and unequivocally states that the nanites do not self-replicate.

if i have more time, i might try and track down the reference to factories spewing clouds of nanites into the air, but... it's kind of a busy time of year, so i wouldn't count on it

I just glossed over the book looking at sections that pertained to the plague and/or manufacturing. The results were zero hits on what is producing the nano plague only that it can't self replicate... which was likely done to preserve the world's a splicers character might visit... I'd imagine the federation of magic would love to get its hands on the nano plague.

Yeah, if the plague self replicated then any contact with the Splicers world by other worlds (such as would be required to allow any form of cross world play) would result in the total destruction of the other world.
As most GMs don't find the idea of having their game worlds be reduced to depopulated non-technological hellscapes, especially if there is no ready pool of superscience bio-tech to take its place.... nay nay on the replication.

I can see it now
<GM> "Well okay, so Bobs character shows up."
<Group> "Hello Bob"
<GM>"And brings the Nano-plauge"
<Group> "Wait, what?"
<GM> "I am afraid that you will all have to roll on the plague tables to see if you survive having all your equipment turn into murder bots and try and kill you."
<Group> "Uhhh"
<GM> "Well, looks like the entire world was just killed off. And due to the random rifts Bob has now wiped out most civilization in the Megaverse."
<Group> "..."
<GM> "Well, oops. Oh well. Sooo what do we want to play now."

hmmm... maybe i'm remembering something from a rifter article? i know i've read it.

on the other hand, this is palladium. it could be in the skill description for cooking or something.

[Nightmartree]

hmmm... maybe i'm remembering something from a rifter article? i know i've read it.

on the other hand, this is palladium. it could be in the skill description for cooking or something.

Jhon "I rolled an "something something" for my cooking roll"
GM "oh?one second let me check what you made on the random tables"
Jhon "you have random tables for cooking?"
GM "I have random tables for everything that could get you killed. Speaking of which roll a saving throw as your cooking pot and silverware become robots and try to kill you"
Jhon "WHAT!?"

and on that note alright, i just don't remember its production ever being mentioned in the main book, and honestly the machine may not need to produce many more, after all, depending on how hardy they are in their dormant mode they could literally be built into the machines robots and every piece of metal on the planet by this time

[Slight001]

hmmm... maybe i'm remembering something from a rifter article? i know i've read it.

on the other hand, this is palladium. it could be in the skill description for cooking or something.

I'm thinking a hook line and sinker... as that is kind of pertinent information a GM should have that in classic palladium fashion is hidden in a section of text the GM might have never looked at...