PFRPG Combat rule question?

[tmbn]

I have a question regarding a 2 against 1 combat sequence. I wonder how you play when there are more than one opponent.

Lets say you have A, B1 and B2 fighting against each other. B1 and B2 is on same team. B1 have first initiativ. A second initiativ. and B2 third initiativ.

Scenario 1:

B1 start with hitting A.

A gets and automatic parry

But now B2 wants to hit A at the same time as B1.

So will B2 be allowed to hit A in the same combat sequence round? Will A get to automatic parry B2 ?

Scenario 2:

Also a second scenario:

A his hitting B1.

B1 gets and automatic parry

But B2 wants to hit A at the same time A is hitting B1.

Will B2 be able to Hit A at the same time he hits and. Will A get an automatic parry on B2? That should not be possible since he hits at the same time.

Will Simultaneous Attacks combat be used when there are more than one opponent?

Question is not about paired weapons. That we can take in second phase when this is cleared up.

Thanks for all your help!

[drewkitty ~..~]

Note that there are not any canon rules that I know of that allows two attackers to attack simultaneously in any of the setting. (I don't have DR so I don't know about that setting).
This situation is sort of covered (from the other side, A's VP) in R3 or R9 (the MAF articles) with one MAF having a paired weapons in that they can parry two opponents and kick one of them at the same time. But N&S/MC follow a slightly different rules set when talking about combat.


If the B chars are NPCs, then they can do it. By GM fiat.

[Glistam]

I have a question regarding a 2 against 1 combat sequence. I wonder how you play when there are more than one opponent.

Lets say you have A, B1 and B2 fighting against each other. B1 and B2 is on same team. B1 have first initiativ. A second initiativ. and B2 third initiativ.

Scenario 1:

B1 start with hitting A.

A gets and automatic parry

But now B2 wants to hit A at the same time as B1.

So will B2 be allowed to hit A in the same combat sequence round? Will A get to automatic parry B2 ?

I can only speak to Palladium Fantasy second edition. By the strict interpretation of the rules, B2 does not get to hit A at the exact same moment that B1 strikes A. B1 and B2 each act on their individual turn in initiative order. This allows A to attempt to parry B1, strike (or do something else) on her action next, then parry B2 when B2 strikes at A.

IScenario 2:

Also a second scenario:

A his hitting B1.

B1 gets and automatic parry

But B2 wants to hit A at the same time A is hitting B1.

Will B2 be able to Hit A at the same time he hits and. Will A get an automatic parry on B2? That should not be possible since he hits at the same time.

I can only speak to Palladium Fantasy second edition. By a strict interpretation of the rules, no. Each character can only act on their turn in the initiative order. So B2 cannot hit A at the moment A strikes at B1, because it isn't B2's turn to act yet.

IWill Simultaneous Attacks combat be used when there are more than one opponent?

Question is not about paired weapons. That we can take in second phase when this is cleared up.

Thanks for all your help!

Typically Simultaneous Attacks seem to only be allowed as an option to the defender of an attack, not to those around the pair.

Additionally, Second Edition does have this to say about Multiple Attackers on page 46:

Multiple Attackers:There will be times when a character is besieged by more than one opponent. Unfortunately, he can only attack one at a time and may elect to divide the number of his attacks per melee between the attackers or concentrate on only one, attempting to only parry the others. The lone defender can parry all attacks that are within his line of vision. If an opponent slips far to one side or behind him, the defender cannot parry the strike because he is concentrating on the assailants in front of him.

[tmbn]

Thank you guys!

Glistam: That was also my thought. That initiativ was king. Or else there would be almost no point with initiativ. On a second hand it also feels little bit awkward that the second attacker would not be able to take advantage of they being more than one. Also that defender (A) would be able to always automatic parry. But in Palladium we dont think about the movement in battle. So when attacker move left, defender would also move to position himself so he can defend himself.

In bigger battles it would be a little different. Example when Vikings went to battle they had a strategy to hit the guy next to him and the guy in front. They would coordinate so that his fellow soldier would also to the same. So the defender could never now where the hits was coming from. So on a battlefield they would rely much on their teammates.

Was there a rule saying if there is more than 3 attackers defender would not be able to automatic parry nr 4 ?

[Glistam]

Was there a rule saying if there is more than 3 attackers defender would not be able to automatic parry nr 4 ?

Yes, but I can't seem find it in the Palladium Fantasy 2nd Ed book. That rule is in Rifts Ultimate Edition and other second edition game books.

[Prysus]

Thank you guys!

Glistam: That was also my thought. That initiativ was king. Or else there would be almost no point with initiativ. On a second hand it also feels little bit awkward that the second attacker would not be able to take advantage of they being more than one. Also that defender (A) would be able to always automatic parry. But in Palladium we dont think about the movement in battle. So when attacker move left, defender would also move to position himself so he can defend himself.

Greetings and Salutations. Glistam has answered the questions well. Since he's addressed the official rules, I'll just add some personal thoughts on them. Most of this won't be official, but opinions and/or house rules.

Initiative would be king, or there would be no point to it. While this might seem awkward at first, it's important to remember that Palladium tends to have a more cinematic theme for combat. In movies and books we often see our heroes (or even epic villains) fight multiple opponents and never (or rarely) take a hit in return. This can happen in real life too. If every opponent can automatically coordinate, this wouldn't be possible. Skill and talent would become mostly irrelevant compared to who has more numbers.

With that said, depending on the game, I do allow characters to select a skill to coordinate attacks in teamwork. Using the skill would allow things like holding action so you can attack at the same time as your teammate. So in the above scenario, B1 attacks. A1 auto-parries and attacks. B2 waits. B1's turn again, and now B2 will get to attack alongside his buddy. This coordination works similar to the Paired Weapons Twin Strike option, with A1 only being able to parry one of them (but which one is up to A1, unless s/he has paired weapons). Now B1 holding action (and not attacking during B1's first turn) is so B1 doesn't somehow react faster than he can (move up initiative), while also serving as an advantage for more opponents. So, for example, if A1 had a friend (A2) who had fourth initiative. A2 would get to attack before B2 (because B2 is waiting, not speeding up). Also, by making this a skill, this makes it less common, giving well trained teams an advantage compared to the average person.

Was there a rule saying if there is more than 3 attackers defender would not be able to automatic parry nr 4 ?

Not in PF2. As Glistam mentioned, there is such a rule in RUE. All PFRPG has to say is what he quoted earlier: "The lone defender can parry all attacks that are within his line of vision." So ALL attacks, with the restriction: "If an opponent slips far to one side or behind him, the defender cannot parry the strike because he is concentrating on the assailants in front of him." There's also a rule that attacks from behind cannot be parried. I also want to say (but can't recall where exactly, so I might be wrong) that RUE mentions only four attackers can team up against one opponent in melee range (more than that would just get in the way).

My mind always processed this as you can parry three opponents: Front, Left, and Right. The fourth opponent would be behind you, and thereby you couldn't defend. This means if you can get your back to a wall, only three attackers could face you in melee range and you could defend against them all. However, it also means you don't have much room to run.

Again, this wasn't to provide the book rules (Glistam already did that well). My goal was to try and provide an explanation/visual for the rules to help them make sense, and to provide a few house rules that might work for you. Hope that helps. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[guardiandashi]

by RAW each character goes on their initiative pass, with that said I believe there is an option to "hold" initiative, meaning that B1 could voluntarily down their initiative to B2's phase, but that also means that A would have effectively won initiative. I don't know that there is any way for B2 to go on B1's initiative unless they are allowed to "give up" their first action to "hold it" until B1's 2nd action.

[Axelmania]

I'd be interested in knowing if we do have a printed Palladium equivalent of GURPS "wait" option.