Low-Tech wilderness towns access to M.D.C. weapons.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm reading through the RUE in preparation of a campaign, and I'm reminded of some of the Setting descriptions that I've always had trouble wrapping my head around. The OG corebook and RUE both said there were small wilderness towns with 19th century technology. This is basically describing Amish communities.

I certainly believe a LOT of towns would utterly lack the comforts of modern society, and would have to farm, fish, etc, but surely these "19th century" communities would have an M.D.C. rifle or two for protection?

Generally, yes, most communities will have a MDC rifle or two.
Moreover, the RMB describes how most communities will have some form of protector or champion, a Mega-Damage equipped individual or group (of any alignment) that can protect the community.

How could they even exist without even that basic level of protection?

Any number of ways, really.
Back in the RMB, most monsters had weaknesses to silver, water, sunlight, or other things that could be utilized by an SDC community.
But that's just the tip of the iceberg.

One mindless animal could wipe out an entire community otherwise.

Potentially, yes, and that does happen.
BUT...
Mindless animals usually don't just slaughter everybody and everything that they see, non-stop, until there's nothing left.
So ask yourself, what is this mindless MDC animal? What does it want? What's its physiology and ecology?
Does it want food? If so, sacrificing cattle or criminals could keep a community alive.
Just for example.

M.D.C. weapons are theoretically "rare" but what does that mean? "Rare" like American citizens that own AR-15's "rare"?

Kinda like that.
The Rifts Adventure Guide has rules for creating a community, and if you look at the Weapons section of that, that can give you some idea.

This is actually an important thing for me to understand in my head, because the availability of M.D.C. weapons for deep wilderness towns to some extent determines how truly "transformed" the NA wilderness is. If some remote farming village in northern PA can survive without at least one guy owning a modern weapon, the abundance of RIFT creatures and dangers has to be somewhat.... overstated.

It's not so much overstated as over-perceived.
In RUE, Tarn has a bit talking about how a person could live in an area that has cougar for their entire life (or something like that), but never see one.
Wilderness is vast.
Mega-Damage monsters aren't an everyday occurrence in a lot of places.
Locals will likely know the local monsters, and how to get along with them to some degree (i.e, chase it away with fire, or feed it, or don't make any sound, or don't wear the color red, or lock your doors at night, or whatever).

I suppose every human settlement must have weapons capable of holding off M.D.C. creatures, agree
No way any human community would last without them.

Not necessarily.
There are probably places on Rifts Earth that haven't seen a Mega-Damage threat in years, decades, or possibly even centuries.
Or that have only seen a couple kinds of threats, ones that are able to be dealt with through ways other than just shooting/stabbing.
Location, Location, Location.

[Shark_Force]

the answers to your questions basically depend on which page of which book you trust more.

in most places where it shows rather than tells, MD weaponry seems awfully common (in some cases, as high as 50% of adults in random groups having one or more, and based on the stated numbers of CS military it is possible that half or more of the population of the CS are some form of soldier or soldier-like profession).

in most places where it tells rather than shows, MD weaponry is described as being rather uncommon (basically the way killer cyborg has described it).

so pretty much, decide which one you want to be more true, make sure you play accordingly, and there's probably enough support for whichever position you settle on to "prove" your version is "canon" (or at least, just as canon as anyone else's).

this discussion has been had a few times in the last few months in one way or the other. it wasn't really settled in the previous threads. i don't expect it will be in this one either.

[Eagle]

My head-canon is that most low tech towns survive for a combination of reasons.

1) They're already in a place without a lot of aggressive mega-damage monster threats. Otherwise they wouldn't have survived as long as they have.

2) Mystics, psychics, and other "naturally occurring" character classes can pop up in a village. Some of the low level damage spells suck, but if that's all you've got, you make do with it.

3) Mercenaries and wandering protectors can drive off more determined opposition. As long as your town can survive a month or two, that's enough time to send for help.

4) MD shotgun shells. I forget which book they're in, but divide up a box of MD shells and your town militia is suddenly a force to be reckoned with (at least for the two or three shots each guy gets).

[kaid]

My head-canon is that most low tech towns survive for a combination of reasons.

1) They're already in a place without a lot of aggressive mega-damage monster threats. Otherwise they wouldn't have survived as long as they have.

2) Mystics, psychics, and other "naturally occurring" character classes can pop up in a village. Some of the low level damage spells suck, but if that's all you've got, you make do with it.

3) Mercenaries and wandering protectors can drive off more determined opposition. As long as your town can survive a month or two, that's enough time to send for help.

4) MD shotgun shells. I forget which book they're in, but divide up a box of MD shells and your town militia is suddenly a force to be reckoned with (at least for the two or three shots each guy gets).

Then there is the old fashioned make deep root cellars to hide in until danger passes or be ready/willing to run for the hills if something to nasty is heading your way.

[Axelmania]

I always figured wilderness towns were like in the Vampire Hunter D movie, where nobody except Doris had a laser rifle because she had to defend her cattle and monsters would always go after the cattle before the villagers, so she was effectively the first line of defense.

I can't recall anyone but Doris having weapons in that town from the film or back when I read the manga. Still haven't read the novelization so I could be wrong.

[glitterboy2098]

i'm not so sure Doris was the only one with a weapon. she was just the only one willing to use it to fight vampires, the rest of the town basically took the approach of "hide and hope it goes away" when the Count came round, and shipped off victims of vampires to a remote location (where more than likely, the count could easily grab her again)

[Axelmania]

I don't think the Count coming round was a usual thing. He could probably have proxies kidnap victims for general feeding, I think he only went out personally for Doris.

[slade2501]

Rifts Adventure Guide, Page 110 outlines the creation of cities and provides for average equipment of a city, city guards and their typical level of equipment among the average citizen and the city guard.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't think the Count coming round was a usual thing. He could probably have proxies kidnap victims for general feeding, I think he only went out personally for Doris.

And you can bet that The Count kinda kept things somewhat in control, in that he didn't let other vampires or major monsters move in on his turf.

[glitterboy2098]

odds are the reason he had so many monsters living at his castle was they were acting as his 'army' to keep that village and likely quite a few others in the area in line. using the more human looking ones to collect taxes (probably 'in kind'*) to support the castle itself, and using the more monstrous ones to cow the villagers and keep them from getting ideas.

*that is, if you grew grain, he got a portion of the grain. raise livestock? so many head belong to him. etc)

[Killer Cyborg]

odds are the reason he had so many monsters living at his castle was they were acting as his 'army' to keep that village and likely quite a few others in the area in line. using the more human looking ones to collect taxes (probably 'in kind'*) to support the castle itself, and using the more monstrous ones to cow the villagers and keep them from getting ideas.

*that is, if you grew grain, he got a portion of the grain. raise livestock? so many head belong to him. etc)

And I see plenty of variations of this on Rifts Earth.

[dragonfett]

The way I see it is while actual MD rifles and rail guns may be rare in the wilderness, there's probably a whole bunch of normal pistols and rifles that can easily fire Wellington Industries Ramjet Rounds. Get two or three .50 caliber machine guns loaded with the Heavy Ramjet Rounds, mount them on the back of some dune buggy's (with scrap pieces of MDC armor plating) for mobility, and you could probably scare off most wandering MD unintelligent critters with a few bursts of Heavy Ramjet Rounds.

[glitterboy2098]

odds are the reason he had so many monsters living at his castle was they were acting as his 'army' to keep that village and likely quite a few others in the area in line. using the more human looking ones to collect taxes (probably 'in kind'*) to support the castle itself, and using the more monstrous ones to cow the villagers and keep them from getting ideas.

*that is, if you grew grain, he got a portion of the grain. raise livestock? so many head belong to him. etc)

And I see plenty of variations of this on Rifts Earth.

yep. i've sometimes wondered if the fact the village didn't seem to have any defenses against the creatures we see attacking the farm's livestock, or any defenses against wild stuff at all, was actually due to the Count using his minions to defend the town by hunting down the dangerous animals. the farm would likely have been on the outskirts of the count's territory, and thus see less benefit from that.

that sort of protection racket ought to be fairly common in rifts. even if the town itself hated their 'protector', as long as he and his minions are the only line of defense from stuff that could be even worse, and they are avoiding depredation on the people they are the nominal 'guardians' of, there won't be much the town can do about it, and it would probably even push back against those who want to change the status quo. "sure, the warlord takes a fifth of every harvest, and drafts the occasional young man for his warband, but he and his men never take anything else, they treat our women fair, and they keep the monsters from snacking on our herds."

[dreicunan]

odds are the reason he had so many monsters living at his castle was they were acting as his 'army' to keep that village and likely quite a few others in the area in line. using the more human looking ones to collect taxes (probably 'in kind'*) to support the castle itself, and using the more monstrous ones to cow the villagers and keep them from getting ideas.

*that is, if you grew grain, he got a portion of the grain. raise livestock? so many head belong to him. etc)

And I see plenty of variations of this on Rifts Earth.

yep. i've sometimes wondered if the fact the village didn't seem to have any defenses against the creatures we see attacking the farm's livestock, or any defenses against wild stuff at all, was actually due to the Count using his minions to defend the town by hunting down the dangerous animals. the farm would likely have been on the outskirts of the count's territory, and thus see less benefit from that.

that sort of protection racket ought to be fairly common in rifts. even if the town itself hated their 'protector', as long as he and his minions are the only line of defense from stuff that could be even worse, and they are avoiding depredation on the people they are the nominal 'guardians' of, there won't be much the town can do about it, and it would probably even push back against those who want to change the status quo. "sure, the warlord takes a fifth of every harvest, and drafts the occasional young man for his warband, but he and his men never take anything else, they treat our women fair, and they keep the monsters from snacking on our herds."

He only takes a fifth? That sounds more reasonable than the taxation levied by most governments in our world!

[Wise_Owl]

odds are the reason he had so many monsters living at his castle was they were acting as his 'army' to keep that village and likely quite a few others in the area in line. using the more human looking ones to collect taxes (probably 'in kind'*) to support the castle itself, and using the more monstrous ones to cow the villagers and keep them from getting ideas.

*that is, if you grew grain, he got a portion of the grain. raise livestock? so many head belong to him. etc)

And I see plenty of variations of this on Rifts Earth.

yep. i've sometimes wondered if the fact the village didn't seem to have any defenses against the creatures we see attacking the farm's livestock, or any defenses against wild stuff at all, was actually due to the Count using his minions to defend the town by hunting down the dangerous animals. the farm would likely have been on the outskirts of the count's territory, and thus see less benefit from that.

that sort of protection racket ought to be fairly common in rifts. even if the town itself hated their 'protector', as long as he and his minions are the only line of defense from stuff that could be even worse, and they are avoiding depredation on the people they are the nominal 'guardians' of, there won't be much the town can do about it, and it would probably even push back against those who want to change the status quo. "sure, the warlord takes a fifth of every harvest, and drafts the occasional young man for his warband, but he and his men never take anything else, they treat our women fair, and they keep the monsters from snacking on our herds."

He only takes a fifth? That sounds more reasonable than the taxation levied by most governments in our world!

Yes, but of course he isn't providing anything save protection from himself and the occasional threat; as oppose to say roads, infrastructure, etc. Some of that might be generated in his own interest, but feudalism historically wasn't very efficient at that sort of thing. Plus of course a 5th for a farmer is basically the difference between 'able to generate a profit' and 'in debt for the entirety of their adult lives'.

Others have already answered plenty of these questions but I think the answer to the question is "It varies greatly, and how it varies often defines how the town exists in the first place". A community of any size has to have a reason to exist; some resource that permits people to trade with others or to support themselves independently. For most in a pre-modern setting that is going to be food production, either through farming, pastoral means(herding) or hunting/gathering/trapping/etc. Magic can make this a bit 'weird' but the answers to these questions are story seeds and elements that product interesting adventures.

For example; one of the games I ran had early adventures around a town that was composed of two communities; the survivors from a pre-rifts 'feeder' town; the sort of place with a few factories, stores, and a few thousand people, and the community of several hundred elves that had popped in on top of them early in the apocalypse. These elfves possessed magic and thus protection against MDC horrors, even as the government infrastructure collapsed so what you have three-hundred years later was a tiered community in which the Elves pursued magic and other pursuits while the humans survived in a socially subservient position. This was systemic but provided for interesting tensions with the PC's(the elves and the humans were mostly 'good' and indeed their were humans who had 'elevated' themselves through developing magical or psionic powers, but it is obviously a social situation made to form questions and adventures.)

[Axelmania]

you can bet that The Count kinda kept things somewhat in control, in that he didn't let other vampires or major monsters move in on his turf.

He let Larmica hang around He had quite the menagerie serving him, like the initial werewolf who removed the cross (weird that Magnus couldn't deal with that himself, he had TK after all... maybe crosses block vamp TK?) the lamias in the water pit, the witch, and then mutants like Rei Ganzi who really should've been rewarded...

[glitterboy2098]

Larmica was his half-human daughter though. that's a bit different situation.

[Killer Cyborg]

you can bet that The Count kinda kept things somewhat in control, in that he didn't let other vampires or major monsters move in on his turf.

He let Larmica hang around He had quite the menagerie serving him, like the initial werewolf who removed the cross (weird that Magnus couldn't deal with that himself, he had TK after all... maybe crosses block vamp TK?) the lamias in the water pit, the witch, and then mutants like Rei Ganzi who really should've been rewarded...

There's a bit of a difference from "people/creatures working for you" and "people/creatures moving in on your turf."

[Axelmania]

Larmica was his half-human daughter though. that's a bit different situation.

Was reading up on her, apparently being a "Dunpeal" like D was a film invention and she was a fullblood in the book/manga. Blonde too.

[Killer Cyborg]

Honestly, towns with zero modern weaponry offer some opportunity for RIFTS horror and psychological elements, too.

After all, the descriptions for Demons and Evil Alignments, IIRC, use the words "torture" and "torment" a lot, and that isn't always possible with people who can defend themselves. At first I just imagined towns being unable to survive even one inter-dimensional encounter, but not everything is a mindless predator.

Heck, some of the random monsters in the RMB feed on FEAR.
They don't have to ever even kill anybody, as long as they can scare them.

[Spinachcat]

the answers to your questions basically depend on which page of which book you trust more.

THIS.

So much in RIFTS is up for interpretation and that's a feature, not a bug - as long as you and your players are on the same page.

I like the concept that MDC creatures have weakeness and vulnerabilities that can be taken advantage of, and I include that in my games, and the severity of the vulnerability is directly related to the monster's power. AKA, the bigger the bad, the more it suffers from its weaknesses.

Also, unarmed townsfolk are good candidates for CS citizens...aka, don't uprise or refuse taxes or the patrol won't come around. Many groups of bandits probably make great money getting paid protection money by these villages.

In my games, some towns have adopted MDC D-bees (or being ruled by them) for protection.

[Blue_Lion]

Even without MDC weapons a low tech community could have MD defense. Magic and PSI could be present in towns lacking MDC weapons. The town could have 1-2 MD d-bees. If a comity has a convrted martial artist from Ninjas and superspies they can fight MDC. Ramjet ammou can turn sdc weapons to MD.

Now then every community should have some sort of defender/defense force to deal with MDC but they type and number could very quite a bit. 1 town may be protected by 1 cyber knight another a half dozen mages, a third could have a members of the comity with chipenwell PA. Some might be defended by bandits they fence loot for. I would expect any village to have 1 or two defenders and towns could field groups larger than PC groups and cities have standing armies.

[Kelorin]

Honestly, towns with zero modern weaponry offer some opportunity for RIFTS horror and psychological elements, too.

After all, the descriptions for Demons and Evil Alignments, IIRC, use the words "torture" and "torment" a lot, and that isn't always possible with people who can defend themselves. At first I just imagined towns being unable to survive even one inter-dimensional encounter, but not everything is a mindless predator.

Heck, some of the random monsters in the RMB feed on FEAR.
They don't have to ever even kill anybody, as long as they can scare them.

Your town's protector is Pennywise?

Actually thinking about more, some Supernatural predators could form a kind of symbiotic relationship with small communities. Farming a regular location is easier than random foraging, right? A somewhat intelligent local creature (Pennywise, Grendel, etc.) regularly feeds off the town. The town could deliberately offer up tribute at regularly specified intervals in the form of criminals, troublemakers, and/or outsiders (like the PCs). In return, the local monster prevents other monsters from moving in to its turf.

[Nightmartree]

Actually thinking about more, some Supernatural predators could form a kind of symbiotic relationship with small communities. Farming a regular location is easier than random foraging, right? A somewhat intelligent local creature (Pennywise, Grendel, etc.) regularly feeds off the town. The town could deliberately offer up tribute at regularly specified intervals in the form of criminals, troublemakers, and/or outsiders (like the PCs). In return, the local monster prevents other monsters from moving in to its turf.

*checks on my people farms*

hmmm seems to be growing nicely. Oh! and these ones could make good minions for my cult! lots of delicious PPE for my rituals.

Also has anyone considered the simple solution of "a town beneath notice", basically a small town could set up shop in the territory of some big bad and be totally unmolested because they aren't worth its notice and anything MDC/Supernatural is so it kills those things off. Basically leaving them the peak sdc creature in a territory with one MDC king who ignores them unless they provoke it. This also brings up the question of how bad it'll be for the surrounding land if your PCs go around killing every big bad creature they meet, maybe its keeping the land peaceful just by its presence or making sure even worse powers don't move in. It's like half the evil factions in rifts earth are busy keeping an eye on each other and if suddenly their rival was to be removed by a roving band of goody two shoes...

There aren't a lot of places on earth where a sudden power vaccume wouldn't be a "VERY BAD THING" for humanity. Few groups are also so established that they couldn't grow more powerful by aquiring more land (assuming they can utilize the land to potential). Atlantis is the only one off the top of my head, they have dimensional ties and empires under them in other places, a few thousand more miles of rifts earth isn't that big a deal, losing land would be a big issue for them but actually assaulting them is nearly impossible.

[Armorlord]

Honestly, towns with zero modern weaponry offer some opportunity for RIFTS horror and psychological elements, too.

After all, the descriptions for Demons and Evil Alignments, IIRC, use the words "torture" and "torment" a lot, and that isn't always possible with people who can defend themselves. At first I just imagined towns being unable to survive even one inter-dimensional encounter, but not everything is a mindless predator.

Heck, some of the random monsters in the RMB feed on FEAR.
They don't have to ever even kill anybody, as long as they can scare them.

Your town's protector is Pennywise?

Actually thinking about more, some Supernatural predators could form a kind of symbiotic relationship with small communities. Farming a regular location is easier than random foraging, right? A somewhat intelligent local creature (Pennywise, Grendel, etc.) regularly feeds off the town. The town could deliberately offer up tribute at regularly specified intervals in the form of criminals, troublemakers, and/or outsiders (like the PCs). In return, the local monster prevents other monsters from moving in to its turf.

Oooh, I like this idea. Agree with and have used most of the notions covered so far, but hadn't thought of this one. I've had them lorded over an ruled and chewed on, but not more subtly fed on and protected. Will have to use that sometime.

In generally, most "village" level towns get by on luck. Some have a weapon or two for warding off minor threats, or some sort of protector, but usually just low profile and scattering when a real threat appears. Oddly, the savages of of the southeast have it better than some with primitive MD weapons and the occasional trained dinosaur.. but they also have a high concentration of beasties roaming around, so maybe it balances out.

[Daniel Stoker]

So basically going with King Kong.


Daniel Stoker

[Killer Cyborg]

So basically going with King Kong.
Daniel Stoker

[Axelmania]

Heck, some of the random monsters in the RMB feed on FEAR.
They don't have to ever even kill anybody, as long as they can scare them.

Hm, RMBp250... a full 15% of them! Never paid much attention to that...

So really, these creatures might have an interest in keeping humans alive (to scare them more in the future) and might possibly defend them against other creatures who would kill to feed like PPE (25%) or human flesh (25%) or human blood (25%) ...

Kinda terrifying that 50% of the animalistic predators in Rifts are somehow keyed into feeding on HUMAN blood or flesh specifically...

[Khanibal]

That's what the P.C.s are for. In fact, rescuing towns from evil monsters has become so prevalent by this time, that the CS is secretly kidnapping people from the 'burbs and dropping them off in rustic villages wired with surveillance gear, just to keep an eye on "heroes". This is top secret information. It's so secret that if you ask Palladium Books about it, they'll flat out deny it.

[Nightmartree]

That's what the P.C.s are for. In fact, rescuing towns from evil monsters has become so prevalent by this time, that the CS is secretly kidnapping people from the 'burbs and dropping them off in rustic villages wired with surveillance gear, just to keep an eye on "heroes". This is top secret information. It's so secret that if you ask Palladium Books about it, they'll flat out deny it.

Na its a % roll by person

1-40 Its a lie (lie)
41-60 Its a lie
61-70 Its true! (exaggerated comedic lie...they think)
71-80 No comment
81-89 Its true (they're saying it to muddle the waters)
90-98 Its true
99-00 Its true (they are promptly assassinated)

[pestigor]

What does a random Coalition deserter kitted out in gear need?
Food. Sure he could steal it or he could raze a village to the ground and eat for a few days maybe weeks or he could decide to make an arrangement with a pretty defenseless town (kill the old defender to become the new defender) and live in comfort for a while. Not everyone is ambitious or a brain washed zealot. Most folks want to live in peace and not worry about their next meal. Post Tolkeen America should be teeming with disillusioned soldiers sick of being at war looking to just find a quiet out of the way place to call home. If they have to scare off or kill the occasional supernatural creature, I figure most folks will take it.
I wouldn't look for numbers to back up anything in a Rifts game, I'd go with plausibility given the situation and try to remember player characters are the vast exception to the "normal" of Rifts so go with what "feels right."

[Eagle]

I figure the Coalition ends up indirectly protecting a lot of these small towns with the number of soldiers it has and the amount of equipment.

From the 1950s through the 1980s, the Soviet Union mass produced AK-47s and sold them ultra cheap/gave them away to third world countries. They also handed out the design specifications so that poor countries could make the gun on their own. It was part of their "anti-Western imperialism" philosophy. In Rifts, the Coalition (wittingly or unwittingly) is doing the same thing. At least as I see it. My view of the Coalition, certainly pre-Tolkeen war, is that they probably lose soldiers and equipment on a fairly regular basis. They send squads of guys out into the wilderness, and people don't always come back. Some monster eats Private Bob, and as it is throwing him around, his pistol goes flying off into the woods. Some guy from the nearby village will eventually find that. Now he has an MDC pistol. The Coalition has been leaving gear all over North America for decades.

Now there's nothing in the books to indicate that they pass out crates full of weapons, though I think it would make sense for them to do so. They send a squad of guys, along with a couple dog boys, to some dinky little village in Nebraska or someplace. The dog boys sniff around the town for wizards or psychics, while Corporal Jones talks to the town elder. He finds out that there's a monster that comes around every few weeks and eats some of their cows, and maybe a few farmhands as well. So Corporal Jones and his squad hunt down the monster, blow it to bits, and come back to tell the town that it's taken care of. They leave a couple of rifles and a half-dozen e-clips behind as a goodwill gesture. From now on, that town is going to be rabidly pro-Coalition. Almost makes you forget that when the dog boys got to Weird Harold's house, they started barking like crazy and then Harold started speaking in this strange voice, and floating in the air, and then the soldiers gunned him down. Nobody really knew what to think of that. But afterwards, these Coalition guys killed the monster that ate Dave and Bill, and they gave us these guns, so they seem pretty okay to me.

I don't think there's anything in the books that specifically says that's how the Coalition operates, but it makes sense to me that that's what they do. They're either supplying small towns with weapons and armor directly, or they're doing it indirectly from equipment they leave behind when they come out on the losing end of a battle.

[Khanibal]

I figure the Coalition ends up indirectly protecting a lot of these small towns with the number of soldiers it has and the amount of equipment.

Yes, they do. In their never-ending quest to destroy everything that isn't squeaky clean human, they have saved many a town, inadvertently.
.

Now there's nothing in the books to indicate that they pass out crates full of weapons, though I think it would make sense for them to do so.

There is quite a bit in the books that indicate the CS will shoot your whole family in the face for owning an old romance novel, so yes I think they are more opposed to people being able to actually defend themselves, (from the CS) rather than just complain about them.

They send a squad of guys, along with a couple dog boys, to some dinky little village in Nebraska or someplace. The dog boys sniff around the town for wizards or psychics, while Corporal Jones talks to the town elder. He finds out that there's a monster that comes around every few weeks and eats some of their cows, and maybe a few farmhands as well. So Corporal Jones and his squad hunt down the monster, blow it to bits, and come back to tell the town that it's taken care of. They leave a couple of rifles and a half-dozen e-clips behind as a goodwill gesture. From now on, that town is going to be rabidly pro-Coalition.

They very well may be, but Corporal Jones just committed an act of treason and probably has to list the equipment as battle loss.

I don't think there's anything in the books that specifically says that's how the Coalition operates, but it makes sense to me that that's what they do. They're either supplying small towns with weapons and armor directly, or they're doing it indirectly from equipment they leave behind when they come out on the losing end of a battle.

Reread the descriptions for Emperor Prosek and his generals. The CS is led by bullies, and bullies don't want anybody to have toys as nice as theirs. They burned Iron Heart to the ground for selling nice toys. They burned Tolkeen to the ground because the didn't like their toys. The whole reason Chi-Town and Quebec were at odds is because Prosek didn't like the toys Quebec were using against his orders (How equal are they?). While there might be generous and even nice soldiers, that is no reflection of policy.

[Blue_Lion]

The people of CS are not evil the goverment/leaders are.

[Eagle]

I figure the Coalition ends up indirectly protecting a lot of these small towns with the number of soldiers it has and the amount of equipment.

Yes, they do. In their never-ending quest to destroy everything that isn't squeaky clean human, they have saved many a town, inadvertently.
.

Now there's nothing in the books to indicate that they pass out crates full of weapons, though I think it would make sense for them to do so.

There is quite a bit in the books that indicate the CS will shoot your whole family in the face for owning an old romance novel, so yes I think they are more opposed to people being able to actually defend themselves, (from the CS) rather than just complain about them.

They send a squad of guys, along with a couple dog boys, to some dinky little village in Nebraska or someplace. The dog boys sniff around the town for wizards or psychics, while Corporal Jones talks to the town elder. He finds out that there's a monster that comes around every few weeks and eats some of their cows, and maybe a few farmhands as well. So Corporal Jones and his squad hunt down the monster, blow it to bits, and come back to tell the town that it's taken care of. They leave a couple of rifles and a half-dozen e-clips behind as a goodwill gesture. From now on, that town is going to be rabidly pro-Coalition.

They very well may be, but Corporal Jones just committed an act of treason and probably has to list the equipment as battle loss.

I don't think there's anything in the books that specifically says that's how the Coalition operates, but it makes sense to me that that's what they do. They're either supplying small towns with weapons and armor directly, or they're doing it indirectly from equipment they leave behind when they come out on the losing end of a battle.

Reread the descriptions for Emperor Prosek and his generals. The CS is led by bullies, and bullies don't want anybody to have toys as nice as theirs. They burned Iron Heart to the ground for selling nice toys. They burned Tolkeen to the ground because the didn't like their toys. The whole reason Chi-Town and Quebec were at odds is because Prosek didn't like the toys Quebec were using against his orders (How equal are they?). While there might be generous and even nice soldiers, that is no reflection of policy.

I'm talking about patrols outside of CS territory. Dead Boys have better things to do than hunting down humans who have a DVD copy of Forrest Gump. I'm saying that Coalition leadership would be okay with the idea of handing out some surplus equipment to human villages and towns. Probably not if they've got D-Bees in the community, but that's a good incentive for them to kick those guys out. "Get rid of these filthy muties and the Coalition would be willing to give you protection." (Muties? I think I'm drifting into X-Men territory there.)

For the Coalition to grow, they have to be seen as an attractive option. You don't want to have to rampage through 100% human towns just to get them to join up. You show them the good side of Coalition membership -- safety.

[Shark_Force]

yeah, i doubt they do that with just handing out weapons. they more likely do that by providing security forces, which means that not only have you agreed to kick out any d-bees or magic users or rogue scholars that show up, but your police/defense force are loyal to the CS and will do so whether you were sincere or not, and by the way, now that you've given them armed soldiers in your town, you can pretty much kiss your sovereignty goodbye one way or the other (and you also have the ability to harass dissenters until they leave, and who's gonna stop you? farmer joe with his 30-06 loaded with a few ramjet rounds?). next up they start recruiting your kids into their army so they can indoctrinate them, apply pressure to close down any form of friendly interaction with other towns the CS doesn't approve of (thus adding another layer of pressure to those other towns to come over to the CS side where they can have protection *and* more trading partners), gradually take over the local industries with their superior technology and the fact that they have obscene amounts of money with which to buy any land that comes available (or bribe/blackmail officials into selling land owned by the community, etc). the schools will start teaching young people how to get jobs in the CS, and the CS-supplied teachers will start indoctrinating students to think like CS citizens. and so on.

the simple fact is, there are nice ways to absorb towns, but there are also ways that are not nearly as nice, even more effective, and can even be made to appear like you're being the nice guy the entire time... you're not taking over the town's industries, you're investing in their industry and providing outside expertise to improve productivity. you're not replacing the police force with CS soldiers loyal to you, you're providing protection to a community in need. pretty soon the town is yours in all but name, until the town holds a vote on whether they should join the CS or not, and given that all the previous votes conveniently went your way, take a guess which way this one is gonna go.

so no, i don't imagine the CS distributes guns. i expect they distribute armed soldiers.

[Killer Cyborg]

VKr 123
The Hammer is a gang of fascist human supremacists and a constant source of turmoil in the city...
...Rumors suggest that the Hammer is secretly supported by the Coalition States (Chi-Town). The gang is unusually well-equipped and sees to have vast resources even though they are not as self-sufficient as their gang rivals...

While "there is no direct proof" that the Hammer is supported by the CS, they tend to have CS armor, 50% of their energy weapons are CS, the leader is a "former" CS military specialist, and of the 20 elite members of the gang, 10 are ex CS soldiers who served under Riddley (the leader).
The typical gang member is usually a Vagabond of a City Rat.

So maybe they're getting their mysterious funding from somewhere else, but on the surface it looks pretty obvious that Captain Riddley still works for the CS or is using his CS connections to arm and run a street gang.

Which is really pretty standard fare, the kind of thing that most modern nations tend to do--find (or create) factions that have similar interests as you, and help supply them.

[Shark_Force]

VKr 123
The Hammer is a gang of fascist human supremacists and a constant source of turmoil in the city...
...Rumors suggest that the Hammer is secretly supported by the Coalition States (Chi-Town). The gang is unusually well-equipped and sees to have vast resources even though they are not as self-sufficient as their gang rivals...

While "there is no direct proof" that the Hammer is supported by the CS, they tend to have CS armor, 50% of their energy weapons are CS, the leader is a "former" CS military specialist, and of the 20 elite members of the gang, 10 are ex CS soldiers who served under Riddley (the leader).
The typical gang member is usually a Vagabond of a City Rat.

So maybe they're getting their mysterious funding from somewhere else, but on the surface it looks pretty obvious that Captain Riddley still works for the CS or is using his CS connections to arm and run a street gang.

Which is really pretty standard fare, the kind of thing that most modern nations tend to do--find (or create) factions that have similar interests as you, and help supply them.

given half of the leadership are (supposedly former) CS soldiers, i'd say that sounds more like what i described - ie distributing armed soldiers, using them to recruit and indoctrinate others, using their newly established military presence to intimidate and/or drive away elements the CS doesn't like, etc.

[Killer Cyborg]

VKr 123
The Hammer is a gang of fascist human supremacists and a constant source of turmoil in the city...
...Rumors suggest that the Hammer is secretly supported by the Coalition States (Chi-Town). The gang is unusually well-equipped and sees to have vast resources even though they are not as self-sufficient as their gang rivals...

While "there is no direct proof" that the Hammer is supported by the CS, they tend to have CS armor, 50% of their energy weapons are CS, the leader is a "former" CS military specialist, and of the 20 elite members of the gang, 10 are ex CS soldiers who served under Riddley (the leader).
The typical gang member is usually a Vagabond of a City Rat.

So maybe they're getting their mysterious funding from somewhere else, but on the surface it looks pretty obvious that Captain Riddley still works for the CS or is using his CS connections to arm and run a street gang.

Which is really pretty standard fare, the kind of thing that most modern nations tend to do--find (or create) factions that have similar interests as you, and help supply them.

given half of the leadership are (supposedly former) CS soldiers, i'd say that sounds more like what i described - ie distributing armed soldiers, using them to recruit and indoctrinate others, using their newly established military presence to intimidate and/or drive away elements the CS doesn't like, etc.

Cool.
But the gang--most of whom are NOT soldiers--are armed with CS weapons and armor.
If that's the kind of thing that you were describing, then yeah, you nailed it.

[Shark_Force]

Cool.
But the gang--most of whom are NOT soldiers--are armed with CS weapons and armor.
If that's the kind of thing that you were describing, then yeah, you nailed it.

*shrug* i would assume that normally they would use soldiers, but in a situation where they're creating a subversive element, just having (presumably special forces) for leaders will do. and really, the other stuff i was mentioning is fairly similar.

[Eagle]

As I said earlier, the Soviets used to send advisers to countries they thought would be receptive to their ideas. And they'd send equipment, either for free or at cheap prices. It worked for them, at the height of the Cold War there were a large number of countries that had aligned themselves with the USSR. There's no reason for the Coalition to not do the same.

[Blue_Lion]

As I said earlier, the Soviets used to send advisers to countries they thought would be receptive to their ideas. And they'd send equipment, either for free or at cheap prices. It worked for them, at the height of the Cold War there were a large number of countries that had aligned themselves with the USSR. There's no reason for the Coalition to not do the same.

Not just the Soviets.
US army SF have a peace time mission as instructors they go in and train people to fight. (advisers) We(USA) channeled weapons and training into afganastan to fight the soviets invasion.

[Eagle]

As I said earlier, the Soviets used to send advisers to countries they thought would be receptive to their ideas. And they'd send equipment, either for free or at cheap prices. It worked for them, at the height of the Cold War there were a large number of countries that had aligned themselves with the USSR. There's no reason for the Coalition to not do the same.

Not just the Soviets.
US army SF have a peace time mission as instructors they go in and train people to fight. (advisers) We(USA) channeled weapons and training into afganastan to fight the soviets invasion.

True. But we tended to charge more money than the Soviets did, so I used them as my example.

[Blue_Lion]

As I said earlier, the Soviets used to send advisers to countries they thought would be receptive to their ideas. And they'd send equipment, either for free or at cheap prices. It worked for them, at the height of the Cold War there were a large number of countries that had aligned themselves with the USSR. There's no reason for the Coalition to not do the same.

Not just the Soviets.
US army SF have a peace time mission as instructors they go in and train people to fight. (advisers) We(USA) channeled weapons and training into afganastan to fight the soviets invasion.

True. But we tended to charge more money than the Soviets did, so I used them as my example.

Well that was probably do to the nature of your governments they where socialist we where capitalist. Socialist every one should have access if they have need, capitalist you can have it if you can afford it.

[Killer Cyborg]

As I said earlier, the Soviets used to send advisers to countries they thought would be receptive to their ideas. And they'd send equipment, either for free or at cheap prices. It worked for them, at the height of the Cold War there were a large number of countries that had aligned themselves with the USSR. There's no reason for the Coalition to not do the same.

Not just the Soviets.
US army SF have a peace time mission as instructors they go in and train people to fight. (advisers) We(USA) channeled weapons and training into afganastan to fight the soviets invasion.

True. But we tended to charge more money than the Soviets did, so I used them as my example.

Well that was probably do to the nature of your governments they where socialist we where capitalist. Socialist every one should have access if they have need, capitalist you can have it if you can afford it.

[pestigor]

I have to say a short campaign based on a group of coalition spec ops sent out to some remote part of the country to train locals on hunting magic users could be an interesting game. I'd take some of the game ideas from my old Recon book.