How does space exposure affect a dragon?

[VR Dragon]

So this comes up.

A dragon is exposed to the full effects of space while under the effects of the sustain spell.

So the GM wants to have the exposure cause damage.

So where can i find in a book the effects of space exposure in a MDC setting?

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

So this comes up.

A dragon is exposed to the full effects of space while under the effects of the sustain spell.

So the GM wants to have the exposure cause damage.

So where can i find in a book the effects of space exposure in a MDC setting?

One of the Phase World books maybe, though ive never looked.

[guardiandashi]

I remember seeing it in want to say it's in mutants in Orbit? But I don't like the rules as listed because it's based on bad understanding of how vacuum exposure works.

In reality vacuum exposure is bad but stuff like the old Arnold total recall movie scenes are bs.
Now some of the radiation effects are real but also exaggerated

[Axelmania]

I seem to recall Dire Harpies can do lava bombardment from space without a problem, so why not dragons?

[Blue_Lion]

I seem to recall Dire Harpies can do lava bombardment from space without a problem, so why not dragons?

Dragons are creatures of magic. Super natural creatures and demons having a ability does not mean creatures of magic like dragons and fairies have the same powers.

damage from suffocation would not apply with the sustain spell but depending on the dragon cold might, as would radiation. Vacuum might also cause some tissue damage.

[Axelmania]

Unless we assume all supernatural creatures can survive the vacuum of space (based on what?) either it's something listed under natural abilities or some kind of inherent property of MDC beings.

Do we have any examples of MDC beings who explicitly have problems surviving a vacuum, aside from the inability to breathe issue which Sustain deals with?

Dyval 49 mentions Dire Harpies can "Fly in air and outer space" which makes me wonder if unless flight specifies "and outer space" if we should assume it doesn't work in space? That could be a problem for dragons.

Dire Harpies are just plain weird, they can somehow drown in water despite being able to breathe without air...

They are "impervious to disease" so maybe that's a requirement for surviving space if we consider it a most extreme form of "decompression sickness". I guess they're immune to becoming Death Demons too! Only other ones with that in the book I can see are Bonelings and Regents with Super-Healing.

[eliakon]

Unless we assume all supernatural creatures can survive the vacuum of space (based on what?) either it's something listed under natural abilities or some kind of inherent property of MDC beings.

Do we have any examples of MDC beings who explicitly have problems surviving a vacuum, aside from the inability to breathe issue which Sustain deals with?

Dyval 49 mentions Dire Harpies can "Fly in air and outer space" which makes me wonder if unless flight specifies "and outer space" if we should assume it doesn't work in space? That could be a problem for dragons.

Dire Harpies are just plain weird, they can somehow drown in water despite being able to breathe without air...

They are "impervious to disease" so maybe that's a requirement for surviving space if we consider it a most extreme form of "decompression sickness". I guess they're immune to becoming Death Demons too! Only other ones with that in the book I can see are Bonelings and Regents with Super-Healing.

Actually it is because Demons and Deevils are explicitly stated to be able to survive in space with out harm even though other creatures are not always so fortunate.
This is because of the particular kind of supernatural creature they are.
I will note however that not all supernatural creatures are the same. Some creatures have different abilities based on their supernatural nature and thus, since the canon statement is that Demons and Deevils can survive in space and not that all supernatural creatures can survive in space... it is not necessarily a universal trait of all supernatural creatures... so far it just applies to demons and deevils.

[Axelmania]

Do you recall which book/page first added this note about demons/de(e)vils? Doesn't sound like something they could always explicitly do.

What about sub-demons who aren't "true" demons?

I can't even recall where to find rules for explosive decompression in a vacuum for creatures not immune to it.

I would think resistance/immunity to cold would also be important.

[guardiandashi]

Do you recall which book/page first added this note about demons/de(e)vils? Doesn't sound like something they could always explicitly do.

What about sub-demons who aren't "true" demons?

I can't even recall where to find rules for explosive decompression in a vacuum for creatures not immune to it.

I would think resistance/immunity to cold would also be important.

depends on where you are in space, in direct sunlight in ~earths orbit you can still get heated to ~120C (248F) in shadow (shade) the effective temperature is ~-100C or -148F

the big problem is that vacuum is an awesome insulator so without someway to actively cool yourself you will typically cook yourself due to waste body heat.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Do you recall which book/page first added this note about demons/de(e)vils? Doesn't sound like something they could always explicitly do.

What about sub-demons who aren't "true" demons?

I can't even recall where to find rules for explosive decompression in a vacuum for creatures not immune to it.

I would think resistance/immunity to cold would also be important.

depends on where you are in space, in direct sunlight in ~earths orbit you can still get heated to ~120C (248F) in shadow (shade) the effective temperature is ~-100C or -148F

the big problem is that vacuum is an awesome insulator so without someway to actively cool yourself you will typically cook yourself due to waste body heat.

Yeah, IIRC, that was the single biggest challenge in the first space suits used for spacewalks - how to keep the astronaught from cooking to death from their own waste body heat.

[Blue_Lion]

Do you recall which book/page first added this note about demons/de(e)vils? Doesn't sound like something they could always explicitly do.

What about sub-demons who aren't "true" demons?

I can't even recall where to find rules for explosive decompression in a vacuum for creatures not immune to it.

I would think resistance/immunity to cold would also be important.

The phase world book for the minion war.

[Blue_Lion]

Unless we assume all supernatural creatures can survive the vacuum of space (based on what?) either it's something listed under natural abilities or some kind of inherent property of MDC beings.

Do we have any examples of MDC beings who explicitly have problems surviving a vacuum, aside from the inability to breathe issue which Sustain deals with?

Dyval 49 mentions Dire Harpies can "Fly in air and outer space" which makes me wonder if unless flight specifies "and outer space" if we should assume it doesn't work in space? That could be a problem for dragons.

Dire Harpies are just plain weird, they can somehow drown in water despite being able to breathe without air...

They are "impervious to disease" so maybe that's a requirement for surviving space if we consider it a most extreme form of "decompression sickness". I guess they're immune to becoming Death Demons too! Only other ones with that in the book I can see are Bonelings and Regents with Super-Healing.

Not all MDC creatures are supernatural.
Dragons as I recall are creatures of magic. Same as fairies.

[dreicunan]

Unless we assume all supernatural creatures can survive the vacuum of space (based on what?) either it's something listed under natural abilities or some kind of inherent property of MDC beings.

Do we have any examples of MDC beings who explicitly have problems surviving a vacuum, aside from the inability to breathe issue which Sustain deals with?

Dyval 49 mentions Dire Harpies can "Fly in air and outer space" which makes me wonder if unless flight specifies "and outer space" if we should assume it doesn't work in space? That could be a problem for dragons.

Dire Harpies are just plain weird, they can somehow drown in water despite being able to breathe without air...

They are "impervious to disease" so maybe that's a requirement for surviving space if we consider it a most extreme form of "decompression sickness". I guess they're immune to becoming Death Demons too! Only other ones with that in the book I can see are Bonelings and Regents with Super-Healing.

Not all MDC creatures are supernatural.
Dragons as I recall are creatures of magic. Same as fairies.

You recall correctly.

[Blue_Lion]

Unless we assume all supernatural creatures can survive the vacuum of space (based on what?) either it's something listed under natural abilities or some kind of inherent property of MDC beings.

Do we have any examples of MDC beings who explicitly have problems surviving a vacuum, aside from the inability to breathe issue which Sustain deals with?

Dyval 49 mentions Dire Harpies can "Fly in air and outer space" which makes me wonder if unless flight specifies "and outer space" if we should assume it doesn't work in space? That could be a problem for dragons.

Dire Harpies are just plain weird, they can somehow drown in water despite being able to breathe without air...

They are "impervious to disease" so maybe that's a requirement for surviving space if we consider it a most extreme form of "decompression sickness". I guess they're immune to becoming Death Demons too! Only other ones with that in the book I can see are Bonelings and Regents with Super-Healing.

Not all MDC creatures are supernatural.
Dragons as I recall are creatures of magic. Same as fairies.

You recall correctly.

Then rules for supernatural do not apply.

[42dragon]

My opinion: Space wouldn't affect a dragon much at all.

We know they are creatures of magic, and are sustained by magic energy. They do not need to eat or drink, and can exert themselves at peak efficiency for weeks at a time. It is never mentioned if they need to breathe or not (in canon). If they don't need to other basics of life nourishment (food, water, rest only occasionally more like hibernation), IMO they don't need to breathe either. They are found on countless worlds, and seem to thrive nearly anywhere they go. Most are resistant to at least one of either fire or cold. Based on their size, they should not be able to fly under their own (considerable) power. But they can, therefore I believe that their flight is at least somewhat magical in nature as well. That would allow them to fly through space with no difficulties as well.

[slade2501]

space has three major difficulties for exposure: 1, the effects of vacuum. 2, the lack of atmosphere. 3, the vast temperature differences in sunlight and shade (and in general).

1. Vacuum: most terrestrial bodies are designed to work in teh pressure of 1 atmosphere, were as space has zero pressure, so air in your lungs and even venous pressure can cause hemorrhaging of surface veins, internal damage, etc.

2. Lack of atmosphere: the atmosphere and magnetosphere of earth protect us from serious radiation, none of which is available in space. Exposure to raw unfiltered sunlight has serious radiation damage potential.

3. Temperature: the average temp in space is about -200+ degrees F, which would be catostrophic to human tissue. The average temp in unfiltered sunlight is about 240 degrees F, a close to 500 degree difference. Going from flash freezing to flash baking in a second is not a healthy way to live.

as a GM I would rule that MDC creatures that require breathing would still require a source of air in space, but would be immune to the temp/radiation and the internal/external pressure differential. Any being that can take a plasma blast and live aint worried about 240 degree sunlight. It might be distracting and uncomfortable tho (penalties to attacks, etc.)

[The Beast]

My opinion: Space wouldn't affect a dragon much at all.

We know they are creatures of magic, and are sustained by magic energy. They do not need to eat or drink, and can exert themselves at peak efficiency for weeks at a time. It is never mentioned if they need to breathe or not (in canon). If they don't need to other basics of life nourishment (food, water, rest only occasionally more like hibernation), IMO they don't need to breathe either. They are found on countless worlds, and seem to thrive nearly anywhere they go. Most are resistant to at least one of either fire or cold. Based on their size, they should not be able to fly under their own (considerable) power. But they can, therefore I believe that their flight is at least somewhat magical in nature as well. That would allow them to fly through space with no difficulties as well.

Problem with that is that Palladium does mention when creatures don't need to breathe.

[VR Dragon]

Thats my whole issue with the space exposure.

Radiation? That causes radiation sickness unless its hard x-ray, gama or cosmic rays. Radiation sickness is a SDC affliction. So it and background radiation will not bother them.

Suffication I can understand. Vacuum wil kill but there are minor spells to render that moot.

Cold can be bad and most dragons are atleast resistant to cold. So it may be very uncomfortable but makes little sense of freezing to death.

Heat is similar to cold. Unless you in close proximity to a sun or in a plasma or ion storm... unplesent but not likely to make instant or even slow cooked dragon bacon.

Then we have the fun setting of phase world. MDC critter spacewalk often without EVA suites. A spell to breath or long term breath holding I guess. So as I like to point out, dragons don't wear spacesuites.

[eliakon]

Do you recall which book/page first added this note about demons/de(e)vils? Doesn't sound like something they could always explicitly do.

Dimensional Outbreak page 98

What about sub-demons who aren't "true" demons?

They are explicitly stated to be included

I can't even recall where to find rules for explosive decompression in a vacuum for creatures not immune to it.

Aliens Ulimited Galaxy Guide page 211

I would think resistance/immunity to cold would also be important.

It helps with the cold damage


I will note that acording to the rules in AUGG (which are not Rifts, but the only rules we have so...)
Supernatural creatures are mentioned in the rules, so they are aware of them... but they do NOT get listed in any of the reduced damage categories nor in the immune category.
Creatures of Magic are not mentioned at all.
YMMV.