Stuff we have lost

[dataweaver]

When Palladium Books lost its TMNT license, they were able to salvage the TMNT 2e book that they were working on by reworking it as the After the Bomb RPG; at least, that's my understanding of what happened. Then the TMNT 1e supplements that were based on the After the Bomb setting instead of the TMNT property survived due to their lack of connection to TMNT.

Unfortunately, a few really good supplements got lost in the shuffle: in particular, I'm thinking of the TMNT Guide to the Universe and Transdimensional TMNT. Anyone recall either of those? I really miss the latter one, as it's the book that got me into Palladium Books way back when.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the contents of the two books reworked to stop them of copyright material then combined into a “Mutants Through Time and Space” supplement.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Well you could do it and publish the results here on the forums as a "fan update". As long as don't convert over any properties licensed from Mirage studios (things specific to the turtles comic/universe.) I think you should be ok. Might want to check with someone more knowledgeable than me about that.

[Tick]

When Palladium Books lost its TMNT license, they were able to salvage the TMNT 2e book that they were working on by reworking it as the After the Bomb RPG; at least, that's my understanding of what happened. Then the TMNT 1e supplements that were based on the After the Bomb setting instead of the TMNT property survived due to their lack of connection to TMNT.

Unfortunately, a few really good supplements got lost in the shuffle: in particular, I'm thinking of the TMNT Guide to the Universe and Transdimensional TMNT. Anyone recall either of those? I really miss the latter one, as it's the book that got me into Palladium Books way back when.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the contents of the two books reworked to stop them of copyright material then combined into a “Mutants Through Time and Space” supplement.

I agree!
Great books both of which could use some updating. I know another Chat person "Jack Burton" is working on great fan material! He would likely be a fantastic resource for the modern weapons. Adding a comprehensive ancient weapons list and muskets and manicles and such would be good to see again too!
Now how does one get Palladium on board?
I love this idea!

[dataweaver]

I agree. Those are both fun books. If I'm not mistaken, though, Guide to the Universe is thoroughly Mirage (well, now Nickelodeon) TMNT source material. I do believe some of its ship building & space combat rules have since been integrated into HU.

Hmm… yeah, that could be a problem. The only Space setting material we have that's definitely for AtB is Mutants in Orbit; and I'm not particularly thrilled with the notion of revisiting that; not without significant rewrites.

Question: How did Transdimensional's time travel/alternate reality rules play? Those seem bonkers. Have owned the book for decades, but never tried those mechanics out.

I rather liked the “spiral of time” thing and the way it attempted to limit the chances of time travel paradoxes by making different eras more like alternate worlds. You don't get the freedom to go just anywhen; but your access to other times is still quite extensive.

[glitterboy2098]

the nice thing is that the actual rules for time travel in TDTMNT seem to to be pure PB.. i got a chance to binge read the original comics awhile back, and they never explained how time travel worked. it just occurred via plot devices and no system or mechanics were mentioned.

though i would argue that the TDTMNT rules don't really fit after the bomb thematically, and if they were updated they should be ported over to heroes Unlimited. The super hero genre has long made use of time travel for plot lines, and the TDTMNT would make for a fun and fairly easy to use approach. you'd just need to add some details on the frequency and types of super heroes present at the various historical periods. sadly Temporal energy would need some adjustment since not everyone would have bio-E.
it also wouldn't be hard to invent some time-heroes and time-villains to replace the time lords from TDTMNT.. or perhaps some sort of 'time cop' since that was what Lord Simultaneous and Renet largely did in the comics (tried to keep the timeline from diverging too much due to the actions of various time travelers)

[dataweaver]

Re: recasting it as a Heroes Unlimited supplement — brilliant! A few thoughts in that regard:

1. Time travel technology becomes the province of a Hardware power subcategory, including technology that manipulates T.E. Bionics and Robotics would primarily be addressed in terms of how T.E. affects such character types.
2. Mutant animals still get their own section in the book, if only because of the dinosaurs and other ancient animals. I'd keep the “mutant human” entry that first appeared in TDTMNT but has subsequently been reprinted in After the Bomb, if for no other reason than it allows Bio-E mutations to be applied to humans as well as animals. Maybe also include some brief guidelines on how aliens might be affected by T.E.-based Bio-E mutations.
3. The Time Wizard stuff needs an overhaul: as written, it's designed to be compatible with HU1e Mystic Study rather than HU2e Mystic Study. And as the book is about more than just time travel, it should also include the Shifter.
4. How about a new PCC, based loosely on the Quantum Leap TV series? A character type who can project her mind into the past, possessing a host who lives in the targeted era.
5. Time Travel Powers. Some of this already exists; but there's room for at least one more, an actual time travel Major Power.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Re: recasting it as a Heroes Unlimited supplement — brilliant! A few thoughts in that regard:

1. Time travel technology becomes the province of a Hardware power subcategory, including technology that manipulates T.E. Bionics and Robotics would primarily be addressed in terms of how T.E. affects such character types.
2. Mutant animals still get their own section in the book, if only because of the dinosaurs and other ancient animals. I'd keep the “mutant human” entry that first appeared in TDTMNT but has subsequently been reprinted in After the Bomb, if for no other reason than it allows Bio-E mutations to be applied to humans as well as animals. Maybe also include some brief guidelines on how aliens might be affected by T.E.-based Bio-E mutations.
3. The Time Wizard stuff needs an overhaul: as written, it's designed to be compatible with HU1e Mystic Study rather than HU2e Mystic Study. And as the book is about more than just time travel, it should also include the Shifter.
4. How about a new PCC, based loosely on the Quantum Leap TV series? A character type who can project her mind into the past, possessing a host who lives in the targeted era.
5. Time Travel Powers. Some of this already exists; but there's room for at least one more, an actual time travel Major Power.

I appreciate your enthusiasm and understand the correlations made between TDTMNT and HU vs the new AtB, BUT DON'T YOU DO IT! (please). Please don't take a beloved supplement from an already under serviced game line and give it to another. In TD TMNT you have not only a sourcebook for prehistoric mutants, but you have (with the new atb write up) a (possible) adventure book dealing with lost pre-crash or prototype EoH technology. You've got 2 books conveniently packaged into one.

The idea of switching it out to a HU book guarantees that it'll never see print. It will go the way of Hardware Unlimited, Mysteries of Magic2, and the BtS2 supplements. Making the new TDTMNT a HU crossover book (the way MiO is with rifts) might not be so terrible. The tech of time and dimensional travel could be relegated to a super low % of the Academic underground if you wanted it for PC's (sounds like a pretty good find the parts scavenger hunt campaign to me). As far as the temporal magic... I'm not 100% sure where to go with that.

[dataweaver]

I'll have to disagree. After the Bomb has plenty of options for supplements — mostly what Rifts would call World Books. But Transdimensional? It's too big for After the Bomb, and it's a much better fit for Heroes Unlimited. And frankly, I see a Transdimensional Heroes supplement as more likely to be published than a Transdimensional Mutants supplement.

Not that I see that much difference: as things stand, you can't really run AtB to its full potential without grabbing a copy of Heroes Unlimited. Custom vehicles? Road Hogs has something for that; but HU's vehicles rules are more robust. EoH? Hardware and Robotics, as well as some Psionics and (non-animal) Mutants.

[glitterboy2098]

TMNT was basically a superhero game with a mutant animals sub-theme. it even had regular superpowered heroes and villains in it. so TDTMNT fit for it.

but After the Bomb is a Post-apocalyptic game with a mutant animals sub-theme. time travel doesn't really fit there. can you imagine Max the Roadwarrior from the mad max series of films having a time travel car? it would stop being a post-apoc setting pretty quick, since he'd not be spending much time in the post-apoc wastelands and might even be able to lessen the effect of the conflict that caused said wastelands in the first place.. if not stop it entirely.

TDTMNT works much more as part of a superhero setting. and it's concept pretty much destroys post-apoc ones. so it's time travel stuff really needs to be part of HU2.

by all means feel free to mine TDTMNT for material like new mutants or rules for primitive weapons, but trying to fit the timetravel aspects just won;t work.

[dataweaver]

Which makes me think: the Future Twists found in TDTMNT would need to be reconceptualized for a Transdimensional Heroes supplement. As written, Twist 1 is the After the Bomb setting; Twist 2 is a Wild Planet (think Will Smith's “After Earth”); Twist 3 is a Machine Civilization/Ecology; Twist 4 is WAR!!!; Twist 5 is Early Homidian Evolution; Twist 6 is Late Homidian Evolution; and Twist 7 is False Eden. While it's an interesting timeline, it's only one possibility, and one that relies heavily on the Mutant Animals angle.

That would be fine for TDTMNT; but TDH should have something less focused on a single Power Category. I'd be inclined to have Twist 1 resemble the Golden Age of Man of Chaos Earth fame, but with superheroes as well as high-tech; Twist 2 would be something more closely resembling Aliens Unlimited, but with Earth as an active participant rather than a sheltered/quarantined world (think Legion of Superheroes); and I'd put the Time Barrier a few decades after that, somewhere between Twist 2 and Twist 3.

Then, in the Cross-Dimensional section, mention that Dimensional Possibilities #2 (“calculating dimensional travel according to branch points”) combines naturally with travel to future Twists, resulting in a “branching future”; and describe the aforementioned After the Bomb timeline in the Dimensional Possibilities #3 (“the Palladium Books Option”) alongside a Splicers timeline, a Rifts timeline, and several others that focus on one aspect or another of HU.

[glitterboy2098]

What might be an approach would be to offer several alternate future options.. Let the the GM decide which he prefers. So like, one version is aliens contact earth. Another is a terminator type scenario. Etc.
You could also have the option of all of those sending people back to the past to ensure it happens or try to prevent it. Giving gamemasters options for current time stories involving those futures without the players actually time travelling.

[dataweaver]

Yeah; that's the sort of thing I was thinking of when I suggested the “branching futures” section in the cross-dimensional section. However, I think that the time travel section, by itself, should present a single “default future” for those who don't want to mess with multiple timelines, and that that future shouldn't assume any cataclysms: not that no crises ever occur in it, but rather that whenever a Crisis occurs the superhero community somehow manages to resolve it. A generally optimistic future that time travelers can be tasked to defend against disastrous alternatives.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

What might be an approach would be to offer several alternate future options.. Let the the GM decide which he prefers. So like, one version is aliens contact earth. Another is a terminator type scenario. Etc.
You could also have the option of all of those sending people back to the past to ensure it happens or try to prevent it. Giving gamemasters options for current time stories involving those futures without the players actually time travelling.

That could lead to all sorts of "you have miscalculated the dimensional variables/coordinates and find yourself..." scenarios. It's the "you took the wrong exit" of genre hopping. Interesting

[glitterboy2098]

What might be an approach would be to offer several alternate future options.. Let the the GM decide which he prefers. So like, one version is aliens contact earth. Another is a terminator type scenario. Etc.
You could also have the option of all of those sending people back to the past to ensure it happens or try to prevent it. Giving gamemasters options for current time stories involving those futures without the players actually time travelling.

That could lead to all sorts of "you have miscalculated the dimensional variables/coordinates and find yourself..." scenarios. It's the "you took the wrong exit" of genre hopping. Interesting

you could hedge your bets too by having elements of the others present in each. so like, lets say you have three scenarios..
one that is an alien invasion scenario, with supers fighting some alien race.
another that is the machine uprising scenario, with supers fighting an AI machine uprising.
and a third that is a more general dystopia scenario.. oppressive government, with supers as both supersoldiers/enforcers and as freedom fighters.

the machine uprising and dystopia scenario might see the aliens appear.. as allies of the resistance and freedom fighters in their respective timelines. the machines might show up in the dystopia setting as the mechanical legions of the oppressive government, and in the alien invasion timeline as earth's latest weapons to try and win the war with the aliens.

the leaders and NPC's from the dystopia timeline might appear in the robot war and alien invasion timeline as freedom fighters/resistance (or as turncoats)

this way you only have to make one set of alien race and equipment stats, one set of robot stats, and one set of NPC's.. useable in all three futures. and if all three futures have sent back timetravellers (the robot war timeline to cause/prevent the uprising, the alien invasion timeline to sabotage/bolster earth's pre-war capabilities, and the dystopian timeline to ensure/prevent the rise of the oppressive government), you could have lots of factions all working at cross purposes throughout time, giving Gm's the ability to have some fun with the plot options. (and an easy excuse for players to land in whatever version of the future the Gm wants.. )

[Zer0 Kay]

the nice thing is that the actual rules for time travel in TDTMNT seem to to be pure PB.. i got a chance to binge read the original comics awhile back, and they never explained how time travel worked. it just occurred via plot devices and no system or mechanics were mentioned.

though i would argue that the TDTMNT rules don't really fit after the bomb thematically, and if they were updated they should be ported over to heroes Unlimited. The super hero genre has long made use of time travel for plot lines, and the TDTMNT would make for a fun and fairly easy to use approach. you'd just need to add some details on the frequency and types of super heroes present at the various historical periods. sadly Temporal energy would need some adjustment since not everyone would have bio-E.
it also wouldn't be hard to invent some time-heroes and time-villains to replace the time lords from TDTMNT.. or perhaps some sort of 'time cop' since that was what Lord Simultaneous and Renet largely did in the comics (tried to keep the timeline from diverging too much due to the actions of various time travelers)

OR they can give everyone a base bio-E like base PPE of normal people and maybe the different level super powers have different Bio-E levels and going back in time reduces a Mega Hero to a normal mutant and turns a turns off a hero's major powers... something like that.

[Sambot]

I would love to see the TMNT sourcebooks revised and reprinted for AtB. Simply stripping out all reference to the TMNTs should do it. Some books would be more intact than others but they could be combined into a single book or rewritten without reference to the TMNTs. I am not sure how many aliens in Guide to the Universe though are Palladium's though. Hopefully they can all stay but if not new ones could be added.

I don't think think Transdmensional has to be revised for Heroes Unlimited. TMNT's Guide's Human Federation could simply be AtB's Empire of Humanity future. With time travel one can go back and forth in the AtB universe and Dimensional travel would allow the use of Pre-historic mutant.

I also don't think Time Travel and Cross Dimensional should be the sole province of a Hardware power subcategory. I think it could also belong to the Alien Category. However I do think there could be conversion notes included. In fact if the Conversion Book is ever revised again this Time and Cross Dimensional travel could be converted for Rifts and other games as well.

[Kovoston]

Rifter #56 has a few ideas on Time Travel. And yes I love the Trans_Dimensional Mutant Ninja Turtles book!!

[taalismn]

I was lucky enough my last year of college to have my friends(bless them) surprise me with the TD TMNT and Guide to the Universe(I'd GM'ed them through Robotech, though I was the only one who really knew the material). Those old books are tattered, torn, broken-spined and well-used, but still affectionately held in my collection.
There was a lot of loopholes and open spaces in descriptions and plenty of missing material/Incomplete stats, showing the newness of the material and PBs' own inexperience, but with a little(okay a LOT) of elbow grease, speculation, and creative license, the old stuff still works and holds the same fun as back then.

[EddieSprecy]

Alaric731 were going to have to do another trade after i move if thats cool. you got a lot of stuff man. i just hope i can come up with some films for you.