Crazy ovulation? (nsfw?)

[The ineffible GM]

So... The question came up at last night's game of whether a crazy was capable of A) ovulation, and B) carrying a child to term.

As best we can figure, the massive changes to their physique and metabolism shouldn't preclude either one, and if anything the fact that it is Mind Over Matter control of one's body suggests they could even control their own ovulation, creating perfect birth control.
Carrying a child to term should also be fine, but they would need to be eating almost all the time thanks to the increased metabolism.

I am curious about the thoughts of others. So... Thoughts?

[Library Ogre]

I'd be inclined towards "If they want to, they can." While a Juicer is more or less "fill me like a sack full of poison", a Crazy is simply super-healthy. I'd allow them to be fertile, or not, depending on their whims.

[Axelmania]

If pregnant women had to eat twice as much and crazies had to eat twice as much, would a pregnant crazy need to eat 3x or 4x? Not sure if this would be additive or multiplicative.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Sure, A Crazy could carry a child to term. I can't imagine a Juicer could, as they are pumped full of all kinds of Chemicals that are harmful to children. but a Crazy only has their brain modified, which leads to some improvements in Body because Psionics and Mind over Matter. But nothing is done that would interfear with carrying a child to term.

Assuming, of course, that the Crazies insanities don't lead them to doing anything that would normally be harmful to an unborn child.

[The Beast]

The only problem I can think of is if Crazies have an increased healing factor. If I remember my health class correctly, there's a chance that a pregnant woman's immune system sees the embryo as an invader and attacks it, which leads to a specific birth defect. I don't recall which one though at the moment. I think an amped-up immune system could respond in the same way more easily.

EDIT: I think Congenital rubella syndrome was what I may have been remembering, however I did come across an article on preeclampsia that seems to support the idea of a woman's immune system rejecting a fetus.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I dunno. Reproduction is a necessary part of life itself, that's why the immune system does not normally identify the embryo as an invader.

Basically speaking, that's just another autoimmune disorder, and I don't think increased healing factors make one more subseptable to autoimmune disorders. If anything, I would say the chance of that happening would go down, rather than up.

If the Crazy in question already had said disorder before becoming a crazy, then any autoimmune disorders they had would be that much better at causing problems, or the psionic nature of the improvement could actually remove the problem even if they already had it.

"Better" immune system does not really indicate "So the targeting is now less accurate". The problem in that disorder isn't that the immune system is "too" good, it's that it's targeting is faulty. Different issue altogeather.

[The Beast]

I dunno. Reproduction is a necessary part of life itself, that's why the immune system does not normally identify the embryo as an invader.

Basically speaking, that's just another autoimmune disorder, and I don't think increased healing factors make one more subseptable to autoimmune disorders. If anything, I would say the chance of that happening would go down, rather than up.

If the Crazy in question already had said disorder before becoming a crazy, then any autoimmune disorders they had would be that much better at causing problems, or the psionic nature of the improvement could actually remove the problem even if they already had it.

"Better" immune system does not really indicate "So the targeting is now less accurate". The problem in that disorder isn't that the immune system is "too" good, it's that it's targeting is faulty. Different issue altogeather.

I was thinking less "targeting is less accurate" and more "immune system now overreacts to everything." Kind of like people with allergies.

[Axelmania]

Just to play devil's advocate here... Juicers have more SDC, so they are more durable, so it is harder to harm their baby. Ergo, juicer moms are the safest moms. Particularly mega-juicer moms because they have MDC protection for their baby. Nanobots make sure the body is never short for oxygen or nutrients.

Juicer muscular fitness also means a healthy delivery, as they are very flexible.

[Nightmartree]

Just to play devil's advocate here... Juicers have more SDC, so they are more durable, so it is harder to harm their baby. Ergo, juicer moms are the safest moms. Particularly mega-juicer moms because they have MDC protection for their baby. Nanobots make sure the body is never short for oxygen or nutrients.

Juicer muscular fitness also means a healthy delivery, as they are very flexible.

i'm gonna counter with can a juicer even maintain themselves when pregnant, remember they have a special dosage and otherwise to keep they basically sane and functioning properly. What happens when pregnancy starts wreaking havoc on your emotions and chemical balance and blah blah blah. Also SDC isn't necessarily an indication of health, just how hard you are to hurt, a lot of which for a juicer is resistance to pain and chemical effects...which I don't think pumping your body full of sedatives and stimulants is good for a child.

This also applies to a crazy, I don't know what hormonal or chemical changes it inflicts on the body, but i'd be very cautious of any pregnancy involving either one. For starters I feel its unlikely without medical monitoring over an extended period of time and adjustments daily during the pregnancy. Secondly the pregnancy effects your body AND mind, do you REALLY want a hyper emotional juicer or crazy nearby? with pregnancy mood swings? and also even if the MOM conversion is primarily a mental effect that mental effect works by triggering changes in the body (your stronger because you think you are, because you think you are your body changes to be stronger...likely by producing chemicals and altering your physiology, possibly effecting your pregnancy). And again, the juicer may be "healthy", but they're burning out hard and the kid is getting all that pumped into them too...

I mean I still keep coming back to even if this works would you really want to do it? I mean, a pregnant juicer/crazy is so high on the "this is bad" scale i'd rather be a nanny for a splurugoth

[Curbludgeon]

I'm inclined toward crazies proving viable as both sire or dam, while juicers could only impregnate another. Obligatorily, I'll say that adding any more than the most perfunctory usage of such in game is a black mark against all involved.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I dunno. Reproduction is a necessary part of life itself, that's why the immune system does not normally identify the embryo as an invader.

Basically speaking, that's just another autoimmune disorder, and I don't think increased healing factors make one more subseptable to autoimmune disorders. If anything, I would say the chance of that happening would go down, rather than up.

If the Crazy in question already had said disorder before becoming a crazy, then any autoimmune disorders they had would be that much better at causing problems, or the psionic nature of the improvement could actually remove the problem even if they already had it.

"Better" immune system does not really indicate "So the targeting is now less accurate". The problem in that disorder isn't that the immune system is "too" good, it's that it's targeting is faulty. Different issue altogeather.

I was thinking less "targeting is less accurate" and more "immune system now overreacts to everything." Kind of like people with allergies.

That is an autoimmune disorder. That's the definition of an autoimmune disorder. I don't think "enhancing the immune system" equals "The immune system now overreacts to everything". It would have to say so specifically for me to beleive that's the intended meaning, considering that it being that would come with a variety of downsides. Enhanced Immune system means "It acts with enhanced effectiveness". it does not mean "it overreacts to everything".

[Library Ogre]

Just to play devil's advocate here... Juicers have more SDC, so they are more durable, so it is harder to harm their baby. Ergo, juicer moms are the safest moms. Particularly mega-juicer moms because they have MDC protection for their baby. Nanobots make sure the body is never short for oxygen or nutrients.

Juicer muscular fitness also means a healthy delivery, as they are very flexible.

Best case scenario starts at 1:05.

(Occasional bad words at the video)

[taalismn]

It's when a MALE Crazy starts insisting that he's pregnant* that you oughta start worrying...

(*exception being the multiple personality gender-swap, but your party Body-Fixer might wanna be consulted, just in case that last encounter with magic or alien technology really did do something).

[kaid]

I don't see any real reason why a crazy would not be able to carry a child to term. Their augmentations are basically all cranial /psi type augments. Juicers bodies are a cocktail of hormones and chemicals which very likely sterilizes them so I doubt a juicer could get pregnant or get somebody else pregnant even.

So probably not a question of if a crazy can get pregnant but more of a question of SHOULD a crazy get pregnant. That would violate the first law of dating. Don't have sex with crazy people.

[Axelmania]

Consider the huge amount of variation in bodily demand a juicer is already able to manage. They can do nothing all day, or run at 90mph for hours. If the biocomp can make rapid adjustments for such a huge variety, taking into account the relatively minor increase in calories/nutrients a baby creates is... child's play.

[dreicunan]

Consider the huge amount of variation in bodily demand a juicer is already able to manage. They can do nothing all day, or run at 90mph for hours. If the biocomp can make rapid adjustments for such a huge variety, taking into account the relatively minor increase in calories/nutrients a baby creates is... child's play.

It is more an issue of if the various chemicals are going to mess with the needs of the child, especially if they cross the placenta and what they will do (the baby foesn't have a biocomp to manage the effects. There likely isn't a canon answer to that.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

It is more an issue of if the various chemicals are going to mess with the needs of the child, especially if they cross the placenta and what they will do (the baby foesn't have a biocomp to manage the effects. There likely isn't a canon answer to that.

I don't really remember/know in the first place how the Juicer biocomp works so I'm just going to assume there's a network of bodywide nanites monitoring all the different systems. If the nanites can pass the blood-brain barrier then I see no reason why they couldn't/wouldn't cross over into the placenta/fetus. The trick IMO would be getting the bio-comp to recognize the fetus as a part of the mother as opposed to a foreign biomass (parasite). If you can work that bit out it shouldn't be any problem for the bio-comp to reprogram to only release beneficial chemicals that promote growth and healing rather than the toxic soup (again don't know what I'm talking about) that turns them MDC and gives them super abilities.
TLDR Get the bio-computer on board and it should be a super perfect pregnancy.

Here's a nugget for your Crazy fertility brains to chew on. If the Crazy has such control over their bodies through M.o.M. could they cause themselves to become SUPAH FERTILE!!! to the point of a viable cross species (only the ones that are "close enough" to human you sickos) pregnancy?

[Axelmania]

The biocomp is in one location and regulates how stuff goes everywhere else, the baby is just another 'someplace else'. It obviously has ways with the nanobots of only sending chemicals where they need to go, so they wouldn't go places they're not ment to like across a placenta or stored in your fat, that would be wasteful.

[Library Ogre]

The biocomp is in one location and regulates how stuff goes everywhere else, the baby is just another 'someplace else'. It obviously has ways with the nanobots of only sending chemicals where they need to go, so they wouldn't go places they're not ment to like across a placenta or stored in your fat, that would be wasteful.

What fat?

However, I'd stick with "Juicers cannot become pregnant." The entire point of Juicing is how much it ****** up your body in service of optimum performance, making it so you don't have a future. "Oh, but it will totally allow you to get pregnant" seems antiethical to that.

Whereas getting MOM implants makes you crazy, which is right in line with becoming a parent. Heck, "getting MOM implants" even sounds like a euphemism for getting pregnant.

[Khanibal]

Whereas getting MOM implants makes you crazy, which is right in line with becoming a parent. Heck, "getting MOM implants" even sounds like a euphemism for getting pregnant.

And the winner if the "Joke So Obvious, No One Wanted to Make It Award" is...

[Library Ogre]

Whereas getting MOM implants makes you crazy, which is right in line with becoming a parent. Heck, "getting MOM implants" even sounds like a euphemism for getting pregnant.

And the winner if the "Joke So Obvious, No One Wanted to Make It Award" is...

I'm a Dad. Bad jokes are my medium.

[Axelmania]

However, I'd stick with "Juicers cannot become pregnant." The entire point of Juicing is how much it ****** up your body in service of optimum performance, making it so you don't have a future. "Oh, but it will totally allow you to get pregnant" seems antiethical to that.

Presumably male juicers are still fertile (though the idea of juicer conversion making you shoot blanks is also interesting I guess) and can have offspring who survive their deaths, allowing female juicers to have babies to survive them doesn't seem too bad.

I mean heck, maybe having MDC abdominal muscles helps protect babies so Mommy Mega-Juicers could get punched in the gut and their babies would be fine because they have an MDC sack protecting them.

Maybe the babies even become MDC by sharing the drugs? But then maybe they'd have to undergo detox too once they are born.

I guess another take would be that a woman could have children first, THEN undergo juicer conversion to lose the pregnancy pounds and earn money for her kids. That'd be a cool backstory. Then undergo cyborg conversion and become bionic mom...

Hey, come to think of it, what do we know about partial conversion cyborgs and whether or not they can reproduce?

I expect full conversion might cause some problems but partial conversion becomes less and less invasive with expanding definitions.

[Blue_Lion]

However, I'd stick with "Juicers cannot become pregnant." The entire point of Juicing is how much it ****** up your body in service of optimum performance, making it so you don't have a future. "Oh, but it will totally allow you to get pregnant" seems antiethical to that.

Presumably male juicers are still fertile (though the idea of juicer conversion making you shoot blanks is also interesting I guess) and can have offspring who survive their deaths, allowing female juicers to have babies to survive them doesn't seem too bad.

I mean heck, maybe having MDC abdominal muscles helps protect babies so Mommy Mega-Juicers could get punched in the gut and their babies would be fine because they have an MDC sack protecting them.

Maybe the babies even become MDC by sharing the drugs? But then maybe they'd have to undergo detox too once they are born.

I guess another take would be that a woman could have children first, THEN undergo juicer conversion to lose the pregnancy pounds and earn money for her kids. That'd be a cool backstory. Then undergo cyborg conversion and become bionic mom...

Hey, come to think of it, what do we know about partial conversion cyborgs and whether or not they can reproduce?

I expect full conversion might cause some problems but partial conversion becomes less and less invasive with expanding definitions.

(in my opinion)The drugs and hormones would likely cause big issues. Making it a unlikely if the child survives.

[Shark_Force]

even if a juicer got pregnant and successfully gave birth, the child is now going to have withdrawal from the juicer drugs to deal with. given infants are more vulnerable to disease, toxins, etc, i can't imagine survival rate is very high, and if you keep them on the drugs to prevent withdrawal they'd be dead long before reaching adulthood anyways.

and that's assuming somehow pregnancy is even possible, which i would say is probably not impossible, but at least sufficiently improbable that it likely isn't worth taking into account.

[Axelmania]

You can survive withdrawal with decent enough chances if you were only a juicer for 9 months, which is the longest a baby of a juicer would presumably be, unless juicer pregnancies lasted longer... if anything I'd think they might take less time since it's a sped-up metabolism.

Psychic/magic healing and super-tech could also step in to help. Or barring that, someone dying of juicer de-tox could be made into a Wampyre to save them.

[Library Ogre]

I also consider it highly unlikely that male juicers are fertile. Modern performance enhancers can have all sorts side effects, even when you're not taking them daily in near-lethal doses of carefully balanced cocktails. I can't imagine that preserving fertility for disposable 'roid-soldiers was a design goal in making Juicers.

[Mack]

I also consider it highly unlikely that male juicers are fertile. Modern performance enhancers can have all sorts side effects, even when you're not taking them daily in near-lethal doses of carefully balanced cocktails. I can't imagine that preserving fertility for disposable 'roid-soldiers was a design goal in making Juicers.

And Mark nails it again.

+1.

[Blue_Lion]

You can survive withdrawal with decent enough chances if you were only a juicer for 9 months, which is the longest a baby of a juicer would presumably be, unless juicer pregnancies lasted longer... if anything I'd think they might take less time since it's a sped-up metabolism.

Psychic/magic healing and super-tech could also step in to help. Or barring that, someone dying of juicer de-tox could be made into a Wampyre to save them.

Are babies not more fragile than adults. All those altering chemicals in a developing body would likely cause issues, leading to posibally lethal birth defects. We know modern performance enhancements drugs taken by females in early pregnancy cause immune and neurological issues if taken in large dosses during early pregnancy.

So there is no reason to think that a juicer female giving birth would be a good thing for the baby.

[Nightmartree]

Whereas getting MOM implants makes you crazy, which is right in line with becoming a parent. Heck, "getting MOM implants" even sounds like a euphemism for getting pregnant.

And the winner if the "Joke So Obvious, No One Wanted to Make It Award" is...

I'm a Dad. Bad jokes are my medium.

I thought it was more like a bursters steak "Well Done"

[Axelmania]

Does anyone recall a minimum or maximum age for juicer conversion? That could inform us. What are the effects of a 90 year old human or a 9 year old human becoming one, for example?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Does anyone recall a minimum or maximum age for juicer conversion? That could inform us. What are the effects of a 90 year old human or a 9 year old human becoming one, for example?

Nothing written. It's left purely to GM interpretation.

I know the main character generation rules imply the minimum age for a player character is 16, and then Nightbane Survival Guide has a chart of modifications to make if you play a Nightbane younger than that ((As the Becoming can occur at any age before 20 or so)). But it's not clear if those penalties apply to non-nightbane.

[Nightmartree]

Does anyone recall a minimum or maximum age for juicer conversion? That could inform us. What are the effects of a 90 year old human or a 9 year old human becoming one, for example?

I as actually wondering this to for different reasons.

A personal opinion is anybody below X years is not developed and therefore the cocktail of juice is not tailored to their physique and results in SIDE EFFECTS that kinda make it so that living the few years you'd normally get as a juicer really isn't a concern. I mean, maybe it doesn't matter that you only have 5 years to live before total body failure because the effect of pumping super steroids and designer drugs into a developing body is BAD enough you may not live that long, or want to live that long after.

As for older people...i can see it working for people for "Older than adventuring age" but there reaches a point your bones and body just isn't what it used to be, some chemical stuff changes as you get older too if i remember right, and i doubt that this is acounted for in the juicer product. Its to make soldiers (Young Fighting Men) and they die fast so old age isn't a problem for them. So there is probably a cap where the conversion works, but likely your survivability goes way way down after a certain age, either death during conversion (body can't take it), Inferior conversion (Can't do anything about the deterioration of old age), or again SIDE EFFECTS because of XYZ.

That said i kind of like the idea of older members of a community getting the conversion once they reach X age and living out their last few years as super human guardians of their people. A few who have vital knowledge don't convert but remain as teachers...and if they are going to be over run these few also convert (Even if they're only good for a few battles before their older bodies fall apart under converion they can still do something). It makes for a "Heroic but Tragic" view and it doesn't "Waste Potential" by cutting young mens lives short.

This is just a personal ideal, nothing to support it besides my own point of view

[Axelmania]

How tailored are these cocktails though? I thought it was one juice regardless of age, gender, or ethnic background.

[Nightmask]

The only problem I can think of is if Crazies have an increased healing factor. If I remember my health class correctly, there's a chance that a pregnant woman's immune system sees the embryo as an invader and attacks it, which leads to a specific birth defect. I don't recall which one though at the moment. I think an amped-up immune system could respond in the same way more easily.

EDIT: I think Congenital rubella syndrome was what I may have been remembering, however I did come across an article on preeclampsia that seems to support the idea of a woman's immune system rejecting a fetus.

There's a medical condition whereby the mother's immune system will attack her fetus if she's RH Negative while the fetus is RH Positive. While the first fetus generally manages it's the later RH Positive fetuses that will end up aborted by the immune system, but we've the means to readily treat it so that it's not generally an issue. I can see an enhanced immune system making things more dangerous from the first fetus but that's about it, the improved healing factor shouldn't cause problems in general for pregnancy.

[Nightmartree]

How tailored are these cocktails though? I thought it was one juice regardless of age, gender, or ethnic background.

That's exactly where I think issues will come from. And its less that its one juice as it is its dozens of them all used in varying amounts to fit your body. That means that if the bio-comp doesn't have the medical information related to your body and how to dose it then it may apply a wrong dose or just not work (Safety features?). I mean this was meant to make soldiers originally so depending on where the research was/is the computers may not have information on how to dose people beyond "Military Age" as it where.

Its a chemical cocktail applied by a computer as needed, if the doctors doing it know what they are doing and are not just fabricating and installing it from old records (The difference between a kingdom with a research and creation department vs a cyber doc in a low end town with a USB with the "Programs"), then maybe they can figure out a cocktail that will juice anyone, we already see people fiddling with the formula in the juicer uprising. So I could see someone with a formula that will allow different ages, but its almost certainly not the basic one.

Actually a good idea for this would be a "Immortal Juicer" the dream of doctors and juicers every where, a doc is trying to figure out a blend of chemicals that will retard aging and reinforce the body, if it works the people using it would essentially achieve chemical immortality. It may also allow a breakthrough in juicer technology! If they could "Swap out" juices at key times, spending 90% of their time on "Immortality" being healed, their lifespan semi-frozen, the damage from all their crazy stunts fixed, and then whenever combat begins "Juice Up" into a fully packed juicer...Their lifespans may increase significantly! perhaps even exceeding humans norms, add in a bio-comp addition that monitors and copies brain waves, perhaps borrowed from the MOM conversion process, add in some nanite repair bots and even fatal wounds to the mind or heart could be repaired as long as the bio-comp remains! A secondary implant in the body would have the back-up allowing for the repair of the bio-comp meaning you'd need to deal massive damage to their whole body and destroy 3 vital parts to wholly kill an immortal juicer! Brain, Bio-Comp, and Backup! If you get really serious run a signal to a home base and even if they die they can be rebuilt at home, though their may be a mental degredation over time...

I mean, its the search for immortality meets juicers tech. An old man trying to live longer signs up for "augmentation" and comes out tougher than he ever was in his youth. If not as fast and strong as normal juicers...and years later...immortality

[Library Ogre]

How tailored are these cocktails though? I thought it was one juice regardless of age, gender, or ethnic background.

My interpretation of the juice is that it is a standard cocktail, but that the bio-comp monitors the individual and makes the decisions necessary. So, Bob the Juicer might find that he usually runs out of Supersteroids first, while Katie might run out of Megameth first. Kind of like printer ink tanks.

However, it's still a huge, near-lethal dose, and excesses are dealt with by adding more drugs. Are you no longer needing adrenaline and need to step down? Well, we're not going to take the adrenaline OUT, we're going to add some downers. Whoops, need for fight again? Overwhelm those old downers with new uppers!

As for using Juicing to achieve immortality, I think it could definitely contribute to longevity, if you designed a system with that as the goal. Juicers are disposable 'roided out supersoldiers. But a bio-comp programmed to enhance health, with a more modest selection of drugs to encourage that, could easily do the job. I included something like this in my Rifts: Houstown article, where the rebuilt Houstown used resources from the old TMC (and some raided from nearby BAMC, before it got bad) to continue to improve in medicine, including such things a non-juicing Bio-Comp. It's down towards the bottom.

[taalismn]

I also consider it highly unlikely that male juicers are fertile. Modern performance enhancers can have all sorts side effects, even when you're not taking them daily in near-lethal doses of carefully balanced cocktails. I can't imagine that preserving fertility for disposable 'roid-soldiers was a design goal in making Juicers.

And I'd look askance at any experiments to produce a super-fertile uber-super-stud(the exception being extraterrestrial colonization efforts, but then I'd assume the emphasis would be on damage-resistant gametes and NOT super-testosterone inseminator).

[Blue_Lion]

Does a woman suffering from her monthly visits not create a few issues that would be undesirable in super soldiers?
Menstrual bleeding can be smelled by some animals and maybe even SN monsters it might attract them.

Pregnancy defiantly would reduce combat performance.


Fertility can be suppressed in women with hormone treatment, the system does mess with hormones of the target to increase combat performance.
Logistically if a super soldiers was only viable for a few years they would not want to loose nearly one year to something that can be prevented.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Does a woman suffering from her monthly visits not create a few issues that would be undesirable in super soldiers?
Menstrual bleeding can be smelled by some animals and maybe even SN monsters it might attract them.

Pregnancy defiantly would reduce combat performance.


Fertility can be suppressed in women with hormone treatment, the system does mess with hormones of the target to increase combat performance.
Logistically if a super soldiers was only viable for a few years they would not want to loose nearly one year to something that can be prevented.

I would imagine that the Bio-comp makes sure that menstration doesn't happen. It'd be trivial to put in some birth control drugs into the coctail to be administered as necessary.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

How tailored are these cocktails though? I thought it was one juice regardless of age, gender, or ethnic background.

That's exactly where I think issues will come from. And its less that its one juice as it is its dozens of them all used in varying amounts to fit your body. That means that if the bio-comp doesn't have the medical information related to your body and how to dose it then it may apply a wrong dose or just not work (Safety features?). I mean this was meant to make soldiers originally so depending on where the research was/is the computers may not have information on how to dose people beyond "Military Age" as it where.

Its a chemical cocktail applied by a computer as needed, if the doctors doing it know what they are doing and are not just fabricating and installing it from old records (The difference between a kingdom with a research and creation department vs a cyber doc in a low end town with a USB with the "Programs"), then maybe they can figure out a cocktail that will juice anyone, we already see people fiddling with the formula in the juicer uprising. So I could see someone with a formula that will allow different ages, but its almost certainly not the basic one.

Actually a good idea for this would be a "Immortal Juicer" the dream of doctors and juicers every where, a doc is trying to figure out a blend of chemicals that will retard aging and reinforce the body, if it works the people using it would essentially achieve chemical immortality. It may also allow a breakthrough in juicer technology! If they could "Swap out" juices at key times, spending 90% of their time on "Immortality" being healed, their lifespan semi-frozen, the damage from all their crazy stunts fixed, and then whenever combat begins "Juice Up" into a fully packed juicer...Their lifespans may increase significantly! perhaps even exceeding humans norms, add in a bio-comp addition that monitors and copies brain waves, perhaps borrowed from the MOM conversion process, add in some nanite repair bots and even fatal wounds to the mind or heart could be repaired as long as the bio-comp remains! A secondary implant in the body would have the back-up allowing for the repair of the bio-comp meaning you'd need to deal massive damage to their whole body and destroy 3 vital parts to wholly kill an immortal juicer! Brain, Bio-Comp, and Backup! If you get really serious run a signal to a home base and even if they die they can be rebuilt at home, though their may be a mental degredation over time...

I mean, its the search for immortality meets juicers tech. An old man trying to live longer signs up for "augmentation" and comes out tougher than he ever was in his youth. If not as fast and strong as normal juicers...and years later...immortality

I like this idea! Would make for a hell of a "Searching for the Fountain of Youth" type game.

[Axelmania]

We already have that, Murder Wraiths.

[taalismn]

We already have that, Murder Wraiths.

That's -embalming-.

Actually, though, reminds me of the 'reifications' in Neal Asher's 'Polity' series...they're corpses that have been preserved through chemical means, fitted with robotic actuators, and directed by an AI. Originally they were essentially drones sent after the deceased's murderers, but later on, they were directed by the AI-copied persona of the person(essentially a Transferred Intelligence), because the person believed that their organic body(or what's left of it) is the true seat of their soul. They tend to require rigorous and regular dosing with preservative chemicals, nanite repair, and the occasional anti-fungal spritz.

[keir451]

So... The question came up at last night's game of whether a crazy was capable of A) ovulation, and B) carrying a child to term.

As best we can figure, the massive changes to their physique and metabolism shouldn't preclude either one, and if anything the fact that it is Mind Over Matter control of one's body suggests they could even control their own ovulation, creating perfect birth control.
Carrying a child to term should also be fine, but they would need to be eating almost all the time thanks to the increased metabolism.

I am curious about the thoughts of others. So... Thoughts?

Alright, as I have somewhat of a medical background (actually dental, but cross trained as a first responder and had to study ALOT of biology) I would say that the Crazy is still very capable of ovulating and carrying a child to term especially during the early stages of the M.O.M conversion as the technology affects the mind more so than the actual body. As far as Juicers go, I would say No. Consider all the issues that can happen to a fetus, currently, just from alcohol use, cigarettes, and other drugs. So it is most likely that either by deliberate action such as a hysterectomy (in the case of a woman), or a vasectomy (in the case of a male) or due to the sheer amount of drugs being pumped through their system, they have rendered themselves incapable of having children.
Also consider the idea that Juicers and Crazies are probably not choosing these transformations to be parents, they're going out there to kick ass, take names and, quite likely, leave a (hopefully) good looking corpse (more likely a very messy or partially or completely obliterated corpse).
Crazies get their name (as we all know) because they eventually got insane and that insanity could be physically and emotionally detrimental to a child and so are not very likely to choose to have kids.
Some Juicers may very well have BEEN parents before their operation but for some reason or another have now decided that "it's better to burn out than to fade away" so I, personally, would rule that Juicers are rendered sterile due to their operation and as such cannot have kids.

[Axelmania]

Alcohol and cigarettes don't give you SDC bonuses and increase your PE and healing, all things which would make babies safer. Juicer mommies are best mommies.

[keir451]

Alcohol and cigarettes don't give you SDC bonuses and increase your PE and healing, all things which would make babies safer. Juicer mommies are best mommies.

We have to ask ourselves what kind of chemicals and drugs make up the juicer cocktail, things like steroids, drugs to reduce pain, artificial adrenaline, etc. all have legitimate and detrimental effects on fetal growth and health. The Juicer is built to be combat engine not a baby factory. The physical strain put on the body by these drugs as well as the overproduction of adrenaline and other hormones in the body are what kill the Juicer so fast.

Prenatal stress and perinatal outcomes—Maternal stress and anxiety during pregnancy has been associated with:

shorter gestation & higher incidence of preterm birth

smaller birth weight and length

increased risk of miscarriage

Juicers live in a world of constant stress, both mental and physical. Mental from the combat they often engage in, physical from the increased speed and reflexes that put abnormal strain on the body that requires the drugs to maintain. Then there is the eventual and unavoidable "burn out" where in the strain on the Juicer's body winds up killing them. For a female Juicer to have a baby would require them to detox first and then spend nine months being pregnant (with all the issues involved, both physical and mental) and then giving birth (which is still a potentially risky process even today, never mind Rifts earth where Obstetricians are few and far between). I would say that the Juicer conversion process places such a strain on a woman's body that it would make having a baby impossible as she would almost certainly have a miscarriage due to the drug cocktail in her system as well as due to the physical exertion she undergoes nearly everyday.
Crazies are much the same, the stress of their life may preclude them from having children safely even though they can still physically and biologically bear children.

[taalismn]

Indeed...and if the balance of chemicals for a Juicer gets adjusted wrong? I wouldn't be surprised if you had some Juicers assuming the physical traits of the other gender...or becoming so musclebound it becomes hard to tell the difference.
Yeah, not optimal for a stable pre-natal environment.

That having been said, a biochemist MIGHT be able to modify Juicer gear specifically to be a sort of 'constant nurse' for (non-Juiced) pregnant women, as a way of moderating anticipated difficult pregnancies. Such circumstances would be unusual, I admit, and interesting....families with a history of miscarriages and fertility issues who MUST have children/heirs born of the particulars, surrogate mothers, colonists dealing with alien circumstances, and darker medical ethics....

[Axelmania]

Think of all the problems related with internal injuries that complicate pregnancies. Juicer's enhanced durability/healing would either prevent them or repair them faster so they caused less damage.

Too many steroids for a baby? Nanobots tell your steroids where they're needed, so they steer away from there.

[dreicunan]

Think of all the problems related with internal injuries that complicate pregnancies. Juicer's enhanced durability/healing would either prevent them or repair them faster so they caused less damage.

Too many steroids for a baby? Nanobots tell your steroids where they're needed, so they steer away from there.

The "nanobots" for a Juicer don't work that way, not even for the Juicer. Juicers have an IRMSS. It performs internal surgery. It doesn't send out robots to direct drug traffic through the body. (Feel free to read up on their capabilities on page 263 of RUE.)

[taalismn]

Think of all the problems related with internal injuries that complicate pregnancies. Juicer's enhanced durability/healing would either prevent them or repair them faster so they caused less damage.

Too many steroids for a baby? Nanobots tell your steroids where they're needed, so they steer away from there.

That's why I would rule a specific 'nannybot harness', rather than have safer pregnancies be a side effect of a standard Juicer conversion.
At best I'd rule that a re-adjust of the Juicer conversion that would allow such a thing would effectively be a de-tox in the first 6-18 months of Juicer conversion. The prospective mother would lose the full Juicer benefits as per de-tox rules, but would have to continue wearing the harness and an adjusted drug regimen. Try to jack it back up to full JUiced levels, and the risk of miscarriage skyrockets...

[Axelmania]

Usually for 42,000 credits you get 48 robots for 4 uses, which I guess means they work in teams of 12. They are 1 use only.

Page 79 mentions Juicers have an internal and external IRMSS (you'd think the latter shold be called an ERMSS...) and it says the internal ones recharge via the body's electromagnetic energy which is pretty cool.

It makes me wonder if only juicers can enjoy that forever-IRMSS benefit, it seems like something a lot of people would want without the other aspects of being a juicer. Maybe Juicers generate more EM energy and normal humans can't create enough to recharge the IRMSS?