What would you say is the best way to defeat the Splugorth?

[Cyber-Knight]

I was reading Shemmarian Nation, and thought the idea of ARCHIE-3 have android infiltrators in Atlantis to be interesting. I started wondering, though, why not have those infiltrators start smuggling in the parts for a few WMD's? Sprinkle them around the continent, in major population centers, and build them in secret. Then when the order is given, detonate them simultaneously. Is that a realistic option? If not, what suggestions would you all have for permanently removing the Splugorth from the map? Who could do it, and how?

[ShadowLogan]

The best way to defeat the Splugorth?... Shut Down Earth as a Dimensional Nexus Center (True Atlanteans did it once before).

By Canon there is no power on Rifts Earth able to defeat Atlantis (even an alliance IIRC) as they are said to be able to take over, but not hold the planet (WB2). They could solve the Vampire problem in Mexico, and the Bug problem in Canada but do not want to agitate the locals.

The WMD approach is likely to trigger some warning via Clarivoyance, so is unlikely to have the desired effect. It might also backfire in provoking Atlantis to take direct action against the power in question (or what ever scapegoat power).

[Mack]

Flooper Ninja Assassins?

[taalismn]

Discover and promote the fact that they taste great stewed....
Publishing a tome called '100 Best Ways to Cook a Splugorth", translated into Alien Intelligence babble, might bring out some hungry predators.
Of course, you might have to deal with the guests afterwards....

[Eagle]

--You could frame Splynncryth. Make the other Splugorth think that he's about to double-cross them. Drag him into a war with some other members of his people. The two most difficult parts of this are 1) knowing to do it (almost none of the info we read in the sourcebooks is public knowledge), and 2) convincing the Splugorth to act on your time table. It does you no good if they decide to get that no good sucker in the next few thousand years.

--Strategic level nukes. You could cover the continent with enough weapons that nothing will remain standing. The problem is they've probably got something on the scale of the of the Tolkeen magic bullcrap force field. They might warp all the nukes away before they explode. To get around that, you're going to have to put the Coalition's nuclear forces in the hands of a bunch of mages. Shift over to a different dimension and then shift back at Atlantis. I don't think the CS is willing to do that.

--A targeted assassination attempt on Splynncryth. I'm not sure what all you'd need, except a group of suicidal high level characters with powerful artifacts. You probably need a one round kill, or at least scare him badly enough so he leaves and doesn't come back. Rules as written, you've got a 20% chance to kill him with a Soul Drinker weapon (he's got +9 to save, needs a 14, so he fails on a 4 or less). If 6 guys (maybe Battle Magi) with Soul Drinkers jump out and catch him before he can teleport away, 6 hits means 6 required saves, he's only got a 26% chance of survival. That's not the full round, that's one set of attacks.

[eliakon]

I am not sure you realistically can remove the Splugorth from the map.
Its like asking "how do we remove China from the world political scene" Its not going to happen with out destroying the world first.

Splyncrith (who I hasten to add is one of the weaker and minor Splugorth lords) has forces greater than pretty much anything anyone else has. If he found someone sneaking nukes onto his island for instance he would squish them flat. The only reason Archie is still around is that his 'war' with the Splugorth is basically one sided. He may see it as a great war, but the Splugorth see it as, at best, a joke.
There are very, very few serious foes of the Splugorth around because those people tend to be annihilated. Remember that the more powerful Splugorth lords can, and do, routinely stand off galactic empires, enslave entire worlds at a go, and pick fights with entire pantheons, on their home turf...and win.

And if you did by some miracle kill of Splyncryth. Congratulations. Say hello to the new boss same as the old boss. Another Splugorth lord will simply move in pick up the pieces and take over.

[Killer Cyborg]

Leaflets.

[Blue_Lion]

Open a permeant rift for mechinoids.

Summon a demon planet.

[Khanibal]

Get Splynncryth addicted to Pokeman Go.

[13eowulf]

Get Splynncryth addicted to Pokeman Go.

Isnt... isnt that kind of what the Splugorth do on a multi-galactic & multi-dimensional level?

They find a being, they throw capture balls at the beings (in the form of slavers), they study the being, force it to fight for amusement and to test its abilities, sometimes artificially evolve the beings (Bio Wizardry, Azlum Asylum, etc.), and try and capture more, particularly if they prove worthwhile. Sometimes breeding them for minion stock?

[The Beast]

Buy the company and then publish a book saying the Splugorth are no longer in charge.

[Blue_Lion]

Replace all OS on their computers with the original windows OS.

[The Beast]

Replace all OS on their computers with the original windows OS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKHoMi-U8g4

[eliakon]

Get Splynncryth addicted to Pokeman Go.

Isnt... isnt that kind of what the Splugorth do on a multi-galactic & multi-dimensional level?

They find a being, they throw capture balls at the beings (in the form of slavers), they study the being, force it to fight for amusement and to test its abilities, sometimes artificially evolve the beings (Bio Wizardry, Azlum Asylum, etc.), and try and capture more, particularly if they prove worthwhile. Sometimes breeding them for minion stock?

Great
Now I am never going to look at Splugorth or Pokémon the same. Thanks.

[13eowulf]

Get Splynncryth addicted to Pokeman Go.

Isnt... isnt that kind of what the Splugorth do on a multi-galactic & multi-dimensional level?

They find a being, they throw capture balls at the beings (in the form of slavers), they study the being, force it to fight for amusement and to test its abilities, sometimes artificially evolve the beings (Bio Wizardry, Azlum Asylum, etc.), and try and capture more, particularly if they prove worthwhile. Sometimes breeding them for minion stock?

Great
Now I am never going to look at Splugorth or Pokémon the same. Thanks.

If it helps look at the metaverse on a macro scale. Atlantis (and Center) are Gyms occupied by a Splugorth dedicated player, and all around their gym are various poketops, nests, and random spawn points for ever increasing varieties of beings....

[Eagle]

I am not sure you realistically can remove the Splugorth from the map.
Its like asking "how do we remove China from the world political scene" Its not going to happen with out destroying the world first.

Splyncrith (who I hasten to add is one of the weaker and minor Splugorth lords) has forces greater than pretty much anything anyone else has. If he found someone sneaking nukes onto his island for instance he would squish them flat. The only reason Archie is still around is that his 'war' with the Splugorth is basically one sided. He may see it as a great war, but the Splugorth see it as, at best, a joke.
There are very, very few serious foes of the Splugorth around because those people tend to be annihilated. Remember that the more powerful Splugorth lords can, and do, routinely stand off galactic empires, enslave entire worlds at a go, and pick fights with entire pantheons, on their home turf...and win.

And if you did by some miracle kill of Splyncryth. Congratulations. Say hello to the new boss same as the old boss. Another Splugorth lord will simply move in pick up the pieces and take over.

Splynncryth's real advantage is that most of the people on Rifts Earth have no idea who he is. A few dimension-hoppers may have a better idea of who the Splugorth are, but most of the empires on Earth think that the Splugorth Minions are the actual Splugorth. None of the people there get to flip through the Atlantis book. Everything they know is half-truth and rumor, most of it incorrect.

Imagine trying to invade a country where you have no maps of the land. You don't know how many people are there, what weapons they have, or anything like that. That's Splynncryth's biggest strength. Because as soon as somebody starts getting detailed information on you, they can start planning an attack against you.

Now, there's probably a way for characters to get that information, but they need an in-character reason to try. A group with psychics, wizards, and other types might be able to sneak their way into Atlantis. Or maybe they can get information from some random D-Bee who visited Atlantis. Maybe they can pass for tourists and start digging up info about Splynncryth, and the abilities of Splugorth in general, and do all this without drawing attention to themselves. But why are they doing this? For people who are allowed in, Atlantis is an amazing place. It's like Vegas meets old school Tijuana, with a side of eBay and the land of Oz. Why be so interested in assassinating a guy that no one's ever heard of?

Basically, you wouldn't.

[ShadowLogan]

The best way to defeat the Splugorth? Here's a wild idea.... Buy them off.

[Daniel Stoker]

While I like the idea I'm not sure anyone has the wealth to offer Splyncrith in trade for all he gets out of having/controlling Atlantis.


Daniel Stoker

[Jorick]

I agree that there's no realistic way to remove the Splugorth, and if it was possible, whatever comes next would be worse. That is, from my "reader's" perspective, Atlantis under the Splugorth is, in balance, the best option Rifts Earth has if it hopes to maintain any sort of order/peace, or even survive as a recognizable planet.


That being said, I think it's a worthwhile exercise (at least if you like True Atlantean stories/games) to try to imagine what those True Atlanteans who dream of one day taking back Atlantis think they could possibly do.


I think first they'd need an end game. Once the power vacuum is turned on, they need a way to stop it up. Shutting down all the Rift activity is one option. There could be a faction of Atlanteans who believe that they really shouldnt be messing with magic anymore, the world was better after Atlantis disappeared than it ever was with the prideful magic using Atlanteans of old (or the monsters of new). They just need to use magic one last time to boot the Splugorth, and gain control of the mega pyramids to do a controlled version of their ancient magic burn (that they've been diligently researching). Everyone else can leave now (they may need to defend the ritual for some time from all the demon lords and gods that just aren't having it). The magicless True Atlanteans will hope to be a guiding light to the mortals of Norifts Earth from their new utopia on their old homeland. (Chapter 2: Archie kills them all and rules Robo Earth with an alloy fist.)


There could be a faction (majority?) that have no desire to shut down magic, because "that's the way home was when it was home. We've learned from our mistakes and are better now. What would we be without tattoos? And I can make water with words and buildings with my mind. Get out of town if you want me to do stuff the hard way! The Splugorth should suffer, not us!" So they'd have to use the mega pyramids to control all Rift activity on Earth. Could they do something like the Promethians do on Center? Maybe they got a hold of some Promethian tech? The tech of some other ancient race? EDIT: I just thought that they must have defended Earth back in the old days somehow, so maybe they have the technology already).


I think short of those two solutions, the war(s) that will obviously occur subsequent to the removal of the Splugorth on Earth, both between the Atlanteans and various factions on Earth (China, Japan, Egypt, Gods, Vampires, Lord O' The Deep, Nxla, all the other AIs, Gargoyls, Aliens, everyone else), and between the Atlanteans and whatever tries to get through the Rifts (more of the above, more Splugorth, other Ancient Races, random Demon wars, and everyone else), will make the retaking of Atlantis a Pyrrhic victory at best. Even if all the good Pantheons/Powers of the Megaverse are on their side (maybe even especially if so).


That being said, maybe the Cosmic Forge (or some equivalent entity) figures its next big threat is gonna come from Earth, and so it figures it has to get a handle on the situation, and reaches out to Atlateans (or whomever) to do something about the whole situation, and it just so happens that in the process of fixing things (i.e. controlling all the Rift activity via the Power of the Forge!!!) the Atlanteans can eventually end up with a Splugorthless Altantis.


But really, if you're one of those Atlanteans that actually thinks it could happen, you're dumb and haven't learned a thing from the last 10,000 years (I'm looking at you, Sunaj).


It occurs to me that the first scenario above is pretty much what happened in the Palladium Fantasy re. The Old Ones. That (the story of Xy/Thoth specifically) makes me think you could put Splyncrith in front of his alignment-changing-portal. What does Anarchist turn into? Unprincipled? Is that enough for coexistence? Could he be made to feel bad about all of his ill-gotten treasures and hand them over to the Atlanteans, no harm no foul? Maybe even defend them from everyone that thinks he's suddenly gone soft? Love conquers all, as they say. Friendship IS magic!

[Jorick]

Thinking about Earth before the Atlanteans screwed up gave me some other ideas.

Perhaps the Atlanteans didn;t need to control anything (besides their own pyramids). Perhaps there already was an order of some sort, out of which Atlantean civilization was able to emerge. Ostensibly, magic was around long before Atlanteans were.


We know that as magic was ebbing on Earth it was, for thousands of years, a chaotic land of magic, just not as strong. All of the monsters/demons/gods of Rifts Earth that are based on actually mythology/folklore are inherently creatures of the time after the Atlantean Catastrophe. Magic was simply not strong enough, and was decreasing, for the likes of the chaos of Rifts Earth.


But before the Catastrophe, something kept Earth from being overrun by the Nxlas and Apocalypse Demons of the Megaverse, and it was something that allowed Atlantean (and Lemurian etc.) civilization to grow in peace. There likely was no explosion of mystic power to attract everybody like the Cataclysm. We know that Chaos Demons (Chaos Earth) are not new to the Megaverse. If they had better places to be, so, one can assume, did all the various interested powers like the Splugorth. No one was sucked into the magic maelstrom like all the d-bees and other unfortunate transplants.


But it was still a dimensional nexus. Some power that would have prevented the ascension of the Atlanteans could have found it. We know the Lord of the Deep was there for some time before the Catastrophe. We know dragons and demons and other powerful beings were there before the Catastrophe. But basically, things were cool. Why?


Perhaps the Earth itself was some sort of sentient creature ("Mother Earth?") or the creation of a great being (like in monotheistic religions?). In either case, while bad stuff could happen or get in, magic/the source of the magic was essentially working in favor of mortals. The Old Ones could be the source of magic on Palladium Fantasy at least. Their names are the power words that allow for magic spells. Perhaps the Earth itself was like the Old Ones in that way.
"Spirits" are supernatural beings somehow connected to Earth. Could spirits have been a self-defense mechanism? Perhaps the Atlanteans did not simply disrupt magic, but destroyed or damaged the structures that provided some protection from those who would abuse it. Did they kill the Earth Mother? If so, could she be resurrected? Did they weaken the spirit realm's connection to Earth? If so could it be repaired?

[grimmhold]

The way I would defeat the Sploogys is; First I would build a Coalition of humans to coordinate attacks, with both conventional forces mixed with psychics and mages. Supplement those attacks with strategic use of WMD's. Next I would negotiate with the Gene Splicers to create a virus that would kill or seriously sicken let's say, 70-90% of the mortal Kydians. Which would leave them extremely vulnerable, and disorientated. Lastly, have the atlanteans seize control of their pyramids so they cannot easily summon massive reinforcements. That would be my plan of attack.

[Hotrod]

Atlantis, as it is currently presented, cannot be defeated by any other power on Rifts Earth. Its location, fighting power, technology, and availability of reinforcements is just too great. You'd have to go to other worlds and dimensions to find anything capable of seriously challenging it. Splynncryth's minions will fight to hold Atlantis as long as their master drives them to do so. Therefore, I'd focus on the ruler of Atlantis: Splynncryth.

It might be possible to destroy the Lord of Atlantis with some kind of targeted assassination using magic, superpowers, thermonuclear weapons, or some combination thereof. The consequences of such an act are difficult to foresee; I would guess that it would lead to civil war among the various minion and slave races, or other Splugorth might try to move in and conquer Atlantis, or both. You'd have death on a massive scale, and the outcome would likely be one or several powers controlling Atlantis.

Goading another power to strike at Splynncryth might be an option. The Splugorth who dominates Phase World's interdimensional market might be jealous of the upstart Atlantis and might be induced to try a takeover. The problem there is that it would be a takeover, substituting one Splugorth for another. Minions of Hades or Dyval might be induced to try attacking Atlantis as part of their ongoing interdimensional conflict, but then you're left with something arguably worse. The best options to strike would also be among the least likely: divine forces like the Greek pantheon and their minions, or perhaps a legion of angels. Neither of those options seem plausible; it's not the style of the gods to conquer territories directly, and angels haven't fought en masse since the Old Ones were defeated (as far as I know).

A less unstable approach would be to convince Splynncryth to withdraw his minions and slaves from Atlantis and allow another power to move in and take over. Striking such a deal seems implausible, as Splynncryth loves his position in Atlantis. The Splugorth is all about two things: business and games. He wants to control the most fabulous interdimensional market in the megaverse, and he wants to observe and occasionally manipulate the conflicts in and around his continent and throughout Rifts: Earth. He has what he wants and he's enjoying it immensely. Short of some kind of magical intervention, this option seems implausible

Fundamentally, though, the best option I see would be a massive slave/minion revolt. If a majority of enough slave/minion races rebelled against Splynncryth en masse, the market would cease operation and the society of Atlantis would collapse. That's not actually impossible (especially given the dominant alignments of many of those slaves and minions). If successful, Atlantis would then likely be split up into race-specific city-states which might be vulnerable to foreign invasion. Of course, this would also be an effective power vacuum with many of the same risks as assassinating Splynncryth. If these revolts could spread to other Splugorth fiefdoms, then taking back Atlantis might be possible. That would be one heck of a campaign, though.

[ShadowLogan]

While I like the idea I'm not sure anyone has the wealth to offer Splyncrith in trade for all he gets out of having/controlling Atlantis.


Daniel Stoker

Well lets try a different tack.

Either get him to pay rent (charge back rent to) or just sell the planet to him and go buy another world and just move.

[Blue_Lion]

While I like the idea I'm not sure anyone has the wealth to offer Splyncrith in trade for all he gets out of having/controlling Atlantis.


Daniel Stoker

Well lets try a different tack.

Either get him to pay rent (charge back rent to) or just sell the planet to him and go buy another world and just move.

Use rifts earth as collateral for a fleet of nurni ships. Hear come the repo-bots.

[Eagle]

While I like the idea I'm not sure anyone has the wealth to offer Splyncrith in trade for all he gets out of having/controlling Atlantis.


Daniel Stoker

Well lets try a different tack.

Either get him to pay rent (charge back rent to) or just sell the planet to him and go buy another world and just move.

Use rifts earth as collateral for a fleet of nurni ships. Hear come the repo-bots.

Buy a bunch of stuff from the Naruni and sign Splynncryth’s name (first you have to get yourself a big rubber alien suit). Then quit paying.

[Zer0 Kay]

Leaflets.

Airdropped or hand delivered?

[Zer0 Kay]

Replace all OS on their computers with the original windows OS.

Oh, oh and then transport it back to the year 2000!!!!

[Zer0 Kay]

Get Splynncryth addicted to Pokeman Go.

Isnt... isnt that kind of what the Splugorth do on a multi-galactic & multi-dimensional level?

They find a being, they throw capture balls at the beings (in the form of slavers), they study the being, force it to fight for amusement and to test its abilities, sometimes artificially evolve the beings (Bio Wizardry, Azlum Asylum, etc.), and try and capture more, particularly if they prove worthwhile. Sometimes breeding them for minion stock?

Great
Now I am never going to look at Splugorth or Pokémon the same. Thanks.

Pervert

[Zer0 Kay]

While I like the idea I'm not sure anyone has the wealth to offer Splyncrith in trade for all he gets out of having/controlling Atlantis.


Daniel Stoker

Well lets try a different tack.

Either get him to pay rent (charge back rent to) or just sell the planet to him and go buy another world and just move.

Use rifts earth as collateral for a fleet of nurni ships. Hear come the repo-bots.

Buy a bunch of stuff from the Naruni and sign Splynncryth’s name (first you have to get yourself a big rubber alien suit). Then quit paying.

Why do you need the suit... obviously you call in the order and use Splynncryth's stolen account number.

[Zer0 Kay]

Get a ton of shed husky fur and teleport it over Splynncryth. After dealing with all that dog hair stuck in the eye. You send a note, "there is more where that came from if you don't leave."

[Zer0 Kay]

Go back to the golden age and make sure the nuclear exchange doesn't happen.

[Blue_Lion]

Recreate the accident of the Atlanteans that caused magic to dry up on earth.

[Zer0 Kay]

Recreate the accident of the Atlanteans that caused magic to dry up on earth.

But that would require you to 1. Find out what the accident was. 2. Try setting up the scenario without being noticed and 3. Profit

[keir451]

I was reading Shemmarian Nation, and thought the idea of ARCHIE-3 have android infiltrators in Atlantis to be interesting. I started wondering, though, why not have those infiltrators start smuggling in the parts for a few WMD's? Sprinkle them around the continent, in major population centers, and build them in secret. Then when the order is given, detonate them simultaneously. Is that a realistic option? If not, what suggestions would you all have for permanently removing the Splugorth from the map? Who could do it, and how?

That many beings dying all at once would probably trigger a repeat of the original CE Apocalypse and just make things worse by granting greater magical strength to magic based beings like the Splugorth and their minions as well as potentially opening even more dimensional portals to even nastier realms.
Best bet would be to figure out how to drain the magical energy of Earth or just deal with the fact that the Splugorth are gonna be there forever.

[Blue_Lion]

Recreate the accident of the Atlanteans that caused magic to dry up on earth.

But that would require you to 1. Find out what the accident was. 2. Try setting up the scenario without being noticed and 3. Profit

Profit is getting rid of atlantis and keeping my family safe.
But it is one of the best ways to defeat the spugorth on earth.
No magic means their minions would be easy to defeat.
You also stop all demon invasions.

[ShadowLogan]

Go back to the golden age and make sure the nuclear exchange doesn't happen.

Ideally maybe, but in actual practice all you really need to do is delay (or accelerate) it long enough so that the celestial alignment is not present to reactivate the Ley Lines when all those people die in the exchange.

I was reading Shemmarian Nation, and thought the idea of ARCHIE-3 have android infiltrators in Atlantis to be interesting. I started wondering, though, why not have those infiltrators start smuggling in the parts for a few WMD's? Sprinkle them around the continent, in major population centers, and build them in secret. Then when the order is given, detonate them simultaneously. Is that a realistic option? If not, what suggestions would you all have for permanently removing the Splugorth from the map? Who could do it, and how?

That many beings dying all at once would probably trigger a repeat of the original CE Apocalypse and just make things worse by granting greater magical strength to magic based beings like the Splugorth and their minions as well as potentially opening even more dimensional portals to even nastier realms.
Best bet would be to figure out how to drain the magical energy of Earth or just deal with the fact that the Splugorth are gonna be there forever.

No it would not trigger a repeat of the original CE Apocalypse, at least not all by itself. People seem to forget that it was the deaths (PPE release) combined with a Celestial Alignment that sparked the Ley Lines.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I am not sure you realistically can remove the Splugorth from the map.
Its like asking "how do we remove China from the world political scene" Its not going to happen with out destroying the world first.

Splyncrith (who I hasten to add is one of the weaker and minor Splugorth lords) has forces greater than pretty much anything anyone else has. If he found someone sneaking nukes onto his island for instance he would squish them flat. The only reason Archie is still around is that his 'war' with the Splugorth is basically one sided. He may see it as a great war, but the Splugorth see it as, at best, a joke.
There are very, very few serious foes of the Splugorth around because those people tend to be annihilated. Remember that the more powerful Splugorth lords can, and do, routinely stand off galactic empires, enslave entire worlds at a go, and pick fights with entire pantheons, on their home turf...and win.

And if you did by some miracle kill of Splyncryth. Congratulations. Say hello to the new boss same as the old boss. Another Splugorth lord will simply move in pick up the pieces and take over.

Splynncryth's real advantage is that most of the people on Rifts Earth have no idea who he is. A few dimension-hoppers may have a better idea of who the Splugorth are, but most of the empires on Earth think that the Splugorth Minions are the actual Splugorth. None of the people there get to flip through the Atlantis book. Everything they know is half-truth and rumor, most of it incorrect.

Imagine trying to invade a country where you have no maps of the land. You don't know how many people are there, what weapons they have, or anything like that. That's Splynncryth's biggest strength. Because as soon as somebody starts getting detailed information on you, they can start planning an attack against you.

Now, there's probably a way for characters to get that information, but they need an in-character reason to try. A group with psychics, wizards, and other types might be able to sneak their way into Atlantis. Or maybe they can get information from some random D-Bee who visited Atlantis. Maybe they can pass for tourists and start digging up info about Splynncryth, and the abilities of Splugorth in general, and do all this without drawing attention to themselves. But why are they doing this? For people who are allowed in, Atlantis is an amazing place. It's like Vegas meets old school Tijuana, with a side of eBay and the land of Oz. Why be so interested in assassinating a guy that no one's ever heard of?

Basically, you wouldn't.

While the fact most people have no idea who the splurgorth are or what Atlantas looks like is a factor, no, that's not the Primary reason. The reason is they control multi-planetary empires and have the ability to freely move resources and troops back and forth between major centers for next to nothing.

The reason no power on Rifts Earth could defeat them is because they have Zillions of Overlords with supernatural strength, high tech weaponry and occasionally bio-wizard enhancements. It's stated outright that a single splurgorth could lose *billions* of Overlords zerg rushing any individual planet and never make the slightest dent in their population, because their size and reproduction rate means there's always more. Splyncryth is if anything a little unusual amoung splurgorth in trying to minimize losses to the bottom line at a level where most splurgorth cease to care; but even he would be willing to keep going at it. They can make all the maps and plans they want, and then lose when they get utterly crushed and overwhelmed by both superior technology and superior numbers by a vast sea. You can't beat the splurgorth in a fight. You can only make them hit their largely arbritrary stop-loss provisions and decide it's not worth losing more money conquering you than you'd be worth once conquered. But there isnt' any power on earth capable of even that much.

[slade2501]

gonna name my next trainer "Splynn"

[Zer0 Kay]

Go back to the golden age and make sure the nuclear exchange doesn't happen.

Ideally maybe, but in actual practice all you really need to do is delay (or accelerate) it long enough so that the celestial alignment is not present to reactivate the Ley Lines when all those people die in the exchange.

Oooooh good point and likely far easier than stopping it all together.

[Eagle]

While the fact most people have no idea who the splurgorth are or what Atlantas looks like is a factor, no, that's not the Primary reason. The reason is they control multi-planetary empires and have the ability to freely move resources and troops back and forth between major centers for next to nothing.

The reason no power on Rifts Earth could defeat them is because they have Zillions of Overlords with supernatural strength, high tech weaponry and occasionally bio-wizard enhancements. It's stated outright that a single splurgorth could lose *billions* of Overlords zerg rushing any individual planet and never make the slightest dent in their population, because their size and reproduction rate means there's always more. Splyncryth is if anything a little unusual amoung splurgorth in trying to minimize losses to the bottom line at a level where most splurgorth cease to care; but even he would be willing to keep going at it. They can make all the maps and plans they want, and then lose when they get utterly crushed and overwhelmed by both superior technology and superior numbers by a vast sea. You can't beat the splurgorth in a fight. You can only make them hit their largely arbritrary stop-loss provisions and decide it's not worth losing more money conquering you than you'd be worth once conquered. But there isnt' any power on earth capable of even that much.

Not exactly.

You can't beat the Splugorth in a conventional fight, that's true. Splynncryth himself has more troops than everyone on Rifts Earth put together. But he can't afford to use all those troops just on Rifts Earth. He's got other planets to worry about, and he can't leave his other interests undefended. Pull your armies from one world and send them to Earth, suddenly you'll find that world under attack by a rival. So you can't do that without serious consequences. We don't know how much of Splynncryth's armies are available for him to move to Earth. We just aren't given that information.

There's also the fact that Earth is being watched by other intergalactic powers. It is important in a way that nowhere else except probably Phase World happens to be. If Splynncryth were to move all his armies to Earth, people who are more powerful than him will step in to try and stop him. Some of the World Books even mention that he's taking a risk in how many troops he's brought to Earth already. If other Splugorth found out exactly what he was up to, they would flip their lid. He's supposed to just sit there in Atlantis and not try to claim the rest of the world, but he keeps trying to establish military bases in North America.

As far as driving him off the planet (or killing him), no one group on Earth really has the ability to do it by themselves. The Coalition Navy book (pgs 46-49) tells us that the Coalition has a stockpile of strategic scale nukes in case of a war with Atlantis. Their plan is to cover the entire continent with a nuclear bombardment. Now, that type of attack seems like it would put a serious crimp in Splynncryth's plans, no matter how many soldiers he has. I'm betting he's got a contingency plan in place to prevent such an attack. The patented Tolkeen Horsecrap Defense Field seems like something Atlantis would have as well. What the Coalition really needs is some way to bring that field down before the bombardment begins, and hopefully have a way to know that Splynncryth is actually in Atlantis at the time (and keep him from teleporting out). The Coalition doesn't have any way to do that.

But... let's say you take the Coalition, and maybe a handful of Asgardian gods. Odin, Thor, and Loki decide to get the band back together, and goad the Coalition into a first strike attack. Add in a supporting force of a few thousand True Atlanteans, a half-dozen high level player character groups, and a couple of Cosmo-Knights. A coordinated attack like that could blast Splynncryth to kingdom come and completely annihilate his forces, and it's all within Odin's capabilities to put together.

It doesn't matter how many armies Splynncryth theoretically controls, if he can't mobilize them and get them right here, right now, this very minute.

[SpiritInterface]

With as many imperial Battle Fleets as you can muster.

[Blue_Lion]

Replace all OS on their computers with the original windows OS.

Oh, oh and then transport it back to the year 2000!!!!

No need just do it December 99 PA.

[Zer0 Kay]

Replace all OS on their computers with the original windows OS.

Oh, oh and then transport it back to the year 2000!!!!

No need just do it December 99 PA.

But there was no Y99 issues

[Blue_Lion]

Replace all OS on their computers with the original windows OS.

Oh, oh and then transport it back to the year 2000!!!!

No need just do it December 99 PA.

But there was no Y99 issues

lol but there are issues with the original windows OS. Most anti-malware programs recognize it as malware.

[Curbludgeon]

TTMNT-style time travel doesn't provide much assistance for a party wanting to stop the 2098 Cataclysm. One would have to either arrive 110 years early, or 15 too late. There would, however, be the potential to halt the experiment that led to the sinking of Atlantis. If a time machine were to arrive on Rifts Earth at Twist′3 (77PA) and its pilots get stranded/murdered, a present day party might discover it and (intentionally or no) travel to TwistA. Both Plato's Critias and WB2 are vague enough on several fronts that the specific twist closest to the Atlantean rift disaster could easily be from A12-15.

The time travel in Rifter 56 affords more specificity, but is less likely to fly at a given table.

[Eagle]

TTMNT-style time travel doesn't provide much assistance for a party wanting to stop the 2098 Cataclysm. One would have to either arrive 110 years early, or 15 too late. There would, however, be the potential to halt the experiment that led to the sinking of Atlantis. If a time machine were to arrive on Rifts Earth at Twist′3 (77PA) and its pilots get stranded/murdered, a present day party might discover it and (intentionally or no) travel to TwistA. Both Plato's Critias and WB2 are vague enough on several fronts that the specific twist closest to the Atlantean rift disaster could easily be from A12-15.

The time travel in Rifter 56 affords more specificity, but is less likely to fly at a given table.

I dunno. Go back to 1988 with about 50 SAMAS suits and I'd think you could change the course of history pretty hard.

[Zer0 Kay]

Replace all OS on their computers with the original windows OS.

Oh, oh and then transport it back to the year 2000!!!!

No need just do it December 99 PA.

But there was no Y99 issues

lol but there are issues with the original windows OS. Most anti-malware programs recognize it as malware.

That likely isn't because of the code but because it recognizes that the OS wants to supplant the current OS and doesn't recognize Windows as a program that currently exists. So what should an anti-virus detect an archaic program that is trying to supplant the current program as? Probably also marks it as having severe weaknesses against current viruses.

[Zer0 Kay]

TTMNT-style time travel doesn't provide much assistance for a party wanting to stop the 2098 Cataclysm. One would have to either arrive 110 years early, or 15 too late. There would, however, be the potential to halt the experiment that led to the sinking of Atlantis. If a time machine were to arrive on Rifts Earth at Twist′3 (77PA) and its pilots get stranded/murdered, a present day party might discover it and (intentionally or no) travel to TwistA. Both Plato's Critias and WB2 are vague enough on several fronts that the specific twist closest to the Atlantean rift disaster could easily be from A12-15.

The time travel in Rifter 56 affords more specificity, but is less likely to fly at a given table.

I dunno. Go back to 1988 with about 50 SAMAS suits and I'd think you could change the course of history pretty hard.

How is that going to stop a nuclear exchange? 1988 weapons can still damage them tanks, missiles 30mm cannons. Also if your using the TMNT style time travel the SAMAS would change into something else if not just become SDC.

[Killer Cyborg]

TTMNT-style time travel doesn't provide much assistance for a party wanting to stop the 2098 Cataclysm. One would have to either arrive 110 years early, or 15 too late. There would, however, be the potential to halt the experiment that led to the sinking of Atlantis. If a time machine were to arrive on Rifts Earth at Twist′3 (77PA) and its pilots get stranded/murdered, a present day party might discover it and (intentionally or no) travel to TwistA. Both Plato's Critias and WB2 are vague enough on several fronts that the specific twist closest to the Atlantean rift disaster could easily be from A12-15.

The time travel in Rifter 56 affords more specificity, but is less likely to fly at a given table.

I dunno. Go back to 1988 with about 50 SAMAS suits and I'd think you could change the course of history pretty hard.

How is that going to stop a nuclear exchange?

Win the conflict early, without nukes.

1988 weapons can still damage them tanks, missiles 30mm cannons. Also if your using the TMNT style time travel the SAMAS would change into something else if not just become SDC.

Yeah.
So there'd be an AR against those missiles and cannons. Decent chance your armor won't take damage.

[Eagle]

TTMNT-style time travel doesn't provide much assistance for a party wanting to stop the 2098 Cataclysm. One would have to either arrive 110 years early, or 15 too late. There would, however, be the potential to halt the experiment that led to the sinking of Atlantis. If a time machine were to arrive on Rifts Earth at Twist′3 (77PA) and its pilots get stranded/murdered, a present day party might discover it and (intentionally or no) travel to TwistA. Both Plato's Critias and WB2 are vague enough on several fronts that the specific twist closest to the Atlantean rift disaster could easily be from A12-15.

The time travel in Rifter 56 affords more specificity, but is less likely to fly at a given table.

I dunno. Go back to 1988 with about 50 SAMAS suits and I'd think you could change the course of history pretty hard.

How is that going to stop a nuclear exchange? 1988 weapons can still damage them tanks, missiles 30mm cannons. Also if your using the TMNT style time travel the SAMAS would change into something else if not just become SDC.

Because in Rifts' history, 50 SAMAS suits didn't show up in 1988 and blow the crap out of everything. You've changed the course of history. The Rifts apocalypse was a one-in-a-billion coincidence. Change anything, and you Butterfly Effect it out of existence.