Least favorite powers!

[Vincent Takeda]

Like it says on the tin... Is there a particular power that you simply veto straight out of the gate? Or don't veto but feel like you have to 'endure' against your will? Is it game breaking or simply supremely annoying or just a pet peeve? Maybe a power you're just supremely ambivalent towards? Which powers are the stinkers?

[Pepsi Jedi]

In HU, for me it's Psionics. While not really a 'power' it kinda is as it's HU.

Or HU Magic for that matter. (But I'm ok with magic weapons)

As for straight up Super powers.

Clock Manipulation: Talk about a one trick pony and total waste. And just to get any use out of it your GM has to have villians use bombs or such with big count down clocks on them.
Control Static Electricity: I don't care how much Palladium tries to make Fetch happen. It's not happening.
Blur: Not 100.00000% useless but a good 98% useless. I wouldn't veto it but I'd be irked if it was asigned/given to me.
Color manipulation: Again... one trick pony whom your GM is going to have to work double and or triple hard to have any use what so ever in game.
Heightened sense of time: It could have a few uses. If your GM contrives it to, but I'd feel pretty angry if it took up one of my few power slots
Heightened sense of recall: Even more upset. Only way this ever comes into play is if your GM purposefully gives you huge amounts to remember and then makes you make IQ rolls or something later on. I.E. more contrived usage
Hold Breath: A few uses but. ugg... one of my power slots? I want a POWER
Instant wardrobe: It could have a few uses, but I've never once had a GM that didn't allow my heroes to have their costume under their clothes or a quick change in most cirumstances. So waste of a power.
Longevity: When is this ever actually going to come into play?
Anatomical Manipulation: With out serious GM effort this is not going to have much use. I know what they were aiming for, but with Palladium rules it's not as useful as it may be in other systems


Those are off the top of my head.

[Vincent Takeda]

Multiple beings is a rough one for us. Not so much at the low levels, but higher up. Stealing all that action economy from the rest of the table.
Big time no fun.

I tend to eschew the creepy body mod powers like fleshworks, zombie flesh, bone expulsion, elasticity, multiple limbs. Tentacles.

I'm learning not to like the inhabitation power just because I like the exploration side of gaming and this power circumvents it completely.

I really like color manipulation as a funky magic item find. One of the takeaways to having powers show up on magic items or tech devices is I think a lot of powers do work much better in a thing than on a character. Hold breath is a great one for, say, a tech device mouthpiece that the party might come across.

I like to think of some of these things as if they're story elements or on the treasure list instead of permanently attatched player powers. The power of impervious to control and posession built into some prayer beads or the like.

Vagabond comes upon a tech suit labeled the 'day after tomorrow' which has natural combat ability and supernatural strength, lol. Suddenly you've got a kung fu hobo that can lift 11 tons. Maybe a supernatural strength tech suit alone is a common item at some sort of space loading dock. A doctors lab where they discover glasses with the living anatomy power. If the party's skillmonkey comes across a magical ring of speed tasking and multitasking, lol. The intangibility power built into a key. That kind of thing.

I've got a long standing project to go through all the powers and mark them up as something I might like to see in a magic item or tech device. A campaign full of normal folks who find magic item treasure sounds like old school D&D to me and could be a lot of fun. Powers2 even has a section on perhaps putting powers into a potion than as a player you'd be ok if it only works on you, but as a story element could be fun if it works on anyone.

You found a potion of super jumping! It wont last forever but fun will be had today!

[The Beast]

Least favorite powers!

All the ones that are being used against me.

[Warshield73]

Multiple beings is a rough one for us. Not so much at the low levels, but higher up. Stealing all that action economy from the rest of the table.
Big time no fun.

This is the only power I flat out do not allow, it's just too disruptive. Truthfully though, I've never had to forbid it as no player has asked for it.

It is really important that players choose powers that match the campaign they want. I mean if they want to be a grpup of publicly beloved super heroes then they can't be walking around looking like zombies or monsters.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Multiple beings isn't that bad. Unless you're starting at high level or something. You don't get that 'many' beings, untill you're on up there in levels and at that point the baddies should be growing with you either in power or numbers. It's easy to just throw in 'extra' baddies for the multiples to have to deal with.

[Vincent Takeda]

yeah. Its not bad from a baddies balance standpoint. What makes it bad is when you've got the same action economy as the entire rest of the table combined. Better as a power the solo supervillain has against an entire party or better as a power you'd choose if its just you and your gm and nobody else. I need my own party! Agent Smith is his own team.

[eliakon]

I flat out ban Multiple Beings, as well as all mainifestations of the Gestalt character. I have yet to see them be run in a way that aids the story and I have better things to do than cater to one player at the expense of everything and everyone else. These two are hard and fast rules... at my table don't even bother to ask, the answer is no.

I also look with jaundiced eye at Karmic Power, Jinx, Invulnerability, APS: Light, APS: Void, Disinigration, and Disruptive touch.

I also ban some combinations of acceptable powers that synchronize to become outsized. EX:PE + Power Touch for instance can get out of hand quickly for example.

This of course is for the average run of the mill game. For specific games I will ban other things, or allow them.

[Warshield73]

yeah. Its not bad from a baddies balance standpoint. What makes it bad is when you've got the same action economy as the entire rest of the table combined. Better as a power the solo supervillain has against an entire party or better as a power you'd choose if its just you and your gm and nobody else. I need my own party! Agent Smith is his own team.

Yes, I had players in Rifts who spent extra money on robots like Dyna-bots and basically each player was his own party. Combat took forever and multiple beings would have to be worse.

I flat out ban Multiple Beings, as well as all mainifestations of the Gestalt character. I have yet to see them be run in a way that aids the story and I have better things to do than cater to one player at the expense of everything and everyone else. These two are hard and fast rules... at my table don't even bother to ask, the answer is no.

I think this is the only reason to ban a power or character class or equipment. Does it take something away from the other players experience.

I also look with jaundiced eye at Karmic Power, Jinx, Invulnerability, APS: Light, APS: Void, Disinigration, and Disruptive touch.

None of these powers bother me too much but Karmic Power and Jinx do require a conversation with the player about what they expect and what you will actually let them do but that is true of a lot of things.

I also ban some combinations of acceptable powers that synchronize to become outsized. EX:PE + Power Touch for instance can get out of hand quickly for example.

I know the power gaming combos bother some GMs but I don't see the big deal. I mean what's worse, Disruptive touch + EX PE or Disruptive Touch + Sonic Speed?

[Vincent Takeda]

I also look with jaundiced eye at Karmic Power, Jinx, Invulnerability, APS: Light, APS: Void, Disinigration, and Disruptive touch.

Ooh. As a long time player of APS Light i'm curious about the particulars of your dislike on that one. ^_^

Would you mind going over these case by case in more detail about what it is you dont like about them?

[Pepsi Jedi]

Why does multiple beings really unbalance your games? What level are you starting char's at that it gets crazy. You can limit them to the 'every other level=double and you gotta be level 10 or so before it gets big. And .... if we're honest how many games actually last past lvl 4 or 5. Where in there'd be... two doubles? Even if you're going one double per lvl you'd still need to exceed lvl 5 or 6 before it got annoying. And again.... few games actually last that long. The majority of games peter out around 4 or 5. if you're exceeding llvel 5 or 6 then you're group is pretty tight and cohesive.

[eliakon]

Why does multiple beings really unbalance your games? What level are you starting char's at that it gets crazy. You can limit them to the 'every other level=double and you gotta be level 10 or so before it gets big. And .... if we're honest how many games actually last past lvl 4 or 5. Where in there'd be... two doubles? Even if you're going one double per lvl you'd still need to exceed lvl 5 or 6 before it got annoying. And again.... few games actually last that long. The majority of games peter out around 4 or 5. if you're exceeding llvel 5 or 6 then you're group is pretty tight and cohesive.

The reason it gets banned is that in literally every game I have ever been in or run the duplicator wants to go and do multiple things at once. Its like splitting the party to the Nth power. Suddenly I have to stop and basically run one, two, five or more solo side sessions simultaneously with the main game. The result is that the duplicator ends up hogging the spotlight, either on purpose or not, and the other players feel left out. Worse, preventing them from doing that takes away one of the major reasons to even have the power in the first place!
And this starts at level 1. Even with the least number of duplicates!
Level 1 Main group and one side story
level 3 Main Group and two side stories.
Et multiple cetera.

The result is that in all my years of gaming I have yet to see a game with a duplicator PC where the duplication power did not end up detracting from the flow of the game and the fun of everyone. I will play as a PC in other peoples games if they want to allow duplicates... thats their nevermind not mine. But I refuse to compromise the fun of all the other players just to cater to the desires of one player (solo games excepted of course)

[Warshield73]

The reason it gets banned is that in literally every game I have ever been in or run the duplicator wants to go and do multiple things at once. Its like splitting the party to the Nth power. Suddenly I have to stop and basically run one, two, five or more solo side sessions simultaneously with the main game. The result is that the duplicator ends up hogging the spotlight, either on purpose or not, and the other players feel left out. Worse, preventing them from doing that takes away one of the major reasons to even have the power in the first place!
And this starts at level 1. Even with the least number of duplicates!
Level 1 Main group and one side story
level 3 Main Group and two side stories.
Et multiple cetera.

The result is that in all my years of gaming I have yet to see a game with a duplicator PC where the duplication power did not end up detracting from the flow of the game and the fun of everyone. I will play as a PC in other peoples games if they want to allow duplicates... thats their nevermind not mine. But I refuse to compromise the fun of all the other players just to cater to the desires of one player (solo games excepted of course)

Agreed. I have only seen duplicators in two or three games, one was an old 1980s Marvel RPG, but it always ends up with most of the party sitting around waiting for the duplicators duplicates to get done.

[Vincent Takeda]

. if you're exceeding llvel 5 or 6 then you're group is pretty tight and cohesive.

Yeah. This describes my group. My oldest surviving characters are nearly weekly play since 2006. I have older characters, but they're not as high a level since I stopped playin them when powers 3 came out. We did split off and do some dead reign and rifts and pathfinder between 2011 and 2017 but none of those really lasts long term. the fatality rates of dead reign and rifts is a lot higher, while the pathfinder characters level up too quickly. 17th level in less than a single year.

But yeah. The larger point stands. Party splittin and spotlight hoggin action economy issues crop up waay early with multiple beings. Its why pathfinder summoners have a notorious reputation as well. Too many minions leaves the rest of the table bored. Minionmancer is a party of 1. He is Lobo. He walks alone. He needs no one.

[Incriptus]

I too have had difficulties with Multiple Selves. Mostly because the power allows you to be two [or more] places at once, thus incentivizing splitting up. If I already have multiple players and a moderate to large sized group slows game play.

Teleport/Intangibility ... Because Eventually somebody wants to materialize an object into the opponents head for an "insta-kill"

Bio-Manipulation [Paralysis] ... Save or Lose, don't like it, plus it undermines the rest of the Bio-Manip Options

[Anything that offers Invulnerability or Partial Invulnerability] ... Puts a severe limitation on what kind of "threats" i can use.

[Vincent Takeda]

I dont really mind invulnerability. For me the game has always been more about what the character accomplishes more than what the character endures. If he's slow, plodding and innefective I dont mind if he's built of indestructium. Plus you play it up with comedy by dialing the absurd offense up to 11. Droppin buildings on him or blowin him out of the airplane mid flight without a parachute. One of the few mutations that can put the fun into funny. The game shouldnt be all about depleting a pile of hit points... especially for this guy.

He's chosen that he doesnt want his character to die. A reasonable request. So we move on to other things, like constantly surviving the absurd. This is the character that goes in to disarm the bomb and fails, and brings the building down around him. They can be a blast if you do it right. He can end up being the king of collateral damage and garner a bad reputation pretty quick.

Plus there are soooo may ways to make characters impervious to sooo many kinds of attacks. Practically every single APS power nullifies half of the stuff you can effectively throw at the guy. Avoiding that is swimmin up a fast movin river.

Those are the kinds of threads I'd like to see pop up more often though. How do you make life interesting for characters with uber powers or uber power combinations. I feel like thats what this particular game is MOSTLY about. Less about a back and forth offensive exchange until death and more of a 'how much can you accomplish while the world's falling down around you'... Sure you're invulnerable but maybe the people you're rescuing aren't. Comic books have always been about 'sure this guy is amazing, but he can still be challenged... His life still made difficult'...

I won't deny I used to be totally addicted to intangibility and aikido... I've moved on from them, but it was a hard habit to break. Not that those two things had any kind of synergy... I just happened to love them both too much not to take them every time. I've moved on to APS light though which was mentioned upthread so perhaps my particular brand of annoying has simply become 'more mainstream'... Just as annoying but less 'kitschy'.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Ehh I still don't see the problem with multiples. It sounds more like you've delt with problem players and those sorts will be problems no matter what powers they have.

If you have 2 players they can split up. Having one with a double doesn't some how change that. If you have 5 player sthey can go 5 different ways. Generally they don't. If the team does need to split up then having multiples actually helps promote the point. If they're just wandering off (Like Jamie's sometimes do) then you're not RPing them at the time.

Again the only time it's going to get out of hand is if you give them one double per level and exceed lvl 5 or so (Unlikely) or one per two lvls and they exceed lvl 10 very unlikely.

Below that and it's just upping the party number a bit.

Maybe talk to the player and tell them not to be an annoying twat, vs ban a power because you don't wan tto be bothered? lol

[Vincent Takeda]

Yeah. the trouble for me has never been about splitting the party. Its always been about action economy. Cant really tell the player to stop using the power to steal all the action economy when the powers whole point is to steal all the action economy. You can keep the power... Just dont use it!

I've got a player who's looking forward to another form of minionmancer that's supposed to be coming out soon. The skelebot commander. Coalition commander in charge of several skelebots. It'll be functionally very similar to other minionmancer action economy builds.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Um.... That OCC has been out since May 2016. lol

The CS Skelebot OCC saw print in Heroes of Humanity which came out 2 and a half years ago.

[Vincent Takeda]

Not skelebot itself but skelebot commander? I'm gonna laugh if its been out all this time and he still hasnt picked up the book. he's been waiting for it forever. Not a character that is a skelebot, but a coalition officer that controls and repairs a few skelebots that are assigned to him.

If thats already in a book thats been released I need to let him know. he's been pining for it for ages.

Edit: just checked in with him. I guess he checked it out and it didnt live up to his expectations. Now he's waiting for disavowed and coalition arsenal

[Pepsi Jedi]

It's there. You just start out with two. not dozens. And actually it's a damn good OCC, as long as you're not trying to twink.

[Vincent Takeda]

It's there. You just start out with two. not dozens. And actually it's a damn good OCC, as long as you're not trying to twink.

Probably why he lost interest. Twinking minionmancer is one of his favorites. Controlling the battlefield from the safety of his armored troop transport is the kind of 'adventure' he likes.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Naa the CS OCC Reads more like a troop with 2-4 mechanical attack dogs (Skelebots).

You 'can' get more but it takes a while and lot of investiture and the GM could nip it at any point and reduce you to 2 or fewer. So it prevents easily twinking. (Though a lenient GM and it could happen)

[taalismn]

It's there. You just start out with two. not dozens. And actually it's a damn good OCC, as long as you're not trying to twink.

Probably why he lost interest. Twinking minionmancer is one of his favorites. Controlling the battlefield from the safety of his armored troop transport is the kind of 'adventure' he likes.

That's why headhunter tactics(i.e. targeting enemy command and control) were developed. Also modified Wild Weasel armaments. Happiness is having ordnance programmed to home on enemy control communications.