Hey Wayne

[Zenvis]

Heres what Im talking about!! I would love to see Harware Characters mimic powers and this book could do it.

[Uncle Servo]

Heres what Im talking about!! I would love to see Harware Characters mimic powers and this book could do it.

I dunno guys. Do we really need to see a technological means of being able to belch for 30 seconds? Or make someone resemble Silly Putty in body, thought, and deed?

[Wayne_Breaux]

PU2 has got me thinking and I was wondering you'll be using any of the Heroes options in the Atorians book. The Eugenics category and Super Invention category seem to appeal to the Atorians especially. I could imagine a number of special atorian operatives wandering around with Force Aura belts, Energy Expulsion Gauntlets, or Sonic Flight battle suits. Similarly, the Super Soldier table seems to fit the Atorian feel as well, massively upgraded warriors of destruction with special vehicles and weapon systems.

Considering the Eugenics and Super Soldier categories found in PU2 are absolutely unacceptable to me as a Heroes Unlimited fan, I really doubt that. The super soldier gets two full sets of powers, (either super or soldier categories and up to 4 rolls on the old style super soldier abilities table), plus they get a robotics class weapon and a minor hardware vehicle. That's like a secret operative with two full sets of super abilities or an alien with an extra set of full blown powers (which brings scary images to my mind since aliens can also be super soldiers, including abrasive, insect, and God forbid, mineral), but that pales compared to Eugenics, which allows you to stack on ten minor powers and two major powers, all for just less than the minimum possible budget. That's way out of control.

In short, I have carefully crafted the Atorians from the ground up and I will finish them that way. So don't count on finding anything from the PUs in those books. If I ever need to publish a villain who can take on a whole group of megas single handedly, you may see a mighty fine example of Eugenics, but until then, I'll be exercising my gamer's right to pass on information I feel is inappropriate for my gaming needs.

[NMI]

Doh!

[Uncle Servo]

Considering the Eugenics and Super Soldier categories found in PU2 are absolutely unacceptable to me as a Heroes Unlimited fan, I really doubt that. The super soldier gets two full sets of powers, (either super or soldier categories and up to 4 rolls on the old style super soldier abilities table), plus they get a robotics class weapon and a minor hardware vehicle. That's like a secret operative with two full sets of super abilities or an alien with an extra set of full blown powers (which brings scary images to my mind since aliens can also be super soldiers, including abrasive, insect, and God forbid, mineral), but that pales compared to Eugenics, which allows you to stack on ten minor powers and two major powers, all for just less than the minimum possible budget. That's way out of control.

In short, I have carefully crafted the Atorians from the ground up and I will finish them that way. So don't count on finding anything from the PUs in those books. If I ever need to publish a villain who can take on a whole group of megas single handedly, you may see a mighty fine example of Eugenics, but until then, I'll be exercising my gamer's right to pass on information I feel is inappropriate for my gaming needs.

Don't beat around the bush, Wayne... how do you REALLY feel about this?

[Cardiac]

Actually, I was a little apprehensive about the Eugenics hero when Kittenstomp posted the PU2 Eugenics characer example. Those were a LOT of powers. Wayyy more powerful than my personal home-brewed version.

As for the Super Soldier v2.0, I'll wait for my PU2 book to get here in a week or so and look it over (although from what I hear it's basically a Secret Operative with powers and special abilities).

[Daniel Stoker]

One of the other problems with Eugenics is that you can buy all those minor powers and ALSO be a full blown Psi. You're a little limited in what super powers you can get but I can see someone making a REALLY sick character via Eugenics even without a max budget.



Daniel Stoker

[Cardiac]

Then again.....the Eugenics category might not be so powerful after all....I mean let's look at the class it has the most in common with; Bionics/Robotics.

Artificial limbs automatically give you Extraordinary Strength (and I ignore the stupid PS limits for bionics. I also let Full Conversion and Brain Transplant borgs upgrade to Superhuman - equivalent strength - but they are big and clunky).

If you are a full conversion or Brain Transplant borg you are automatically immune to any powers or substances that solely affect a living flesh and blood body (including many poisons, many psionics and magic spells, cold, heat, Disruptive Touch, Bio-Ghost and so forth).

Your Bionic Armor can turn you into a walking tank - easily with as much raw SDC as an APS-Stone or Metal character.

You can practically buy yourself Extraordinary Speed with enough cash.

You can give yourself hover systems, jet packs and Jump boosters for flight and long leaps.

All the diffent bionic eye options can duplicate the different Super-Vision powers.

A bionic ear with Amplified Hearing duplicates the Hieghtened Sense of Hearing power.

Energy weapons can be combined to make tham a match for any Energy Expulsion power (one arm blaster not enough? - buy two!).

I'll be able to make a solid assessment one I get my hands on the book, but for anyone else who currently has it - what's your take on it?

[Uncle Servo]

I'll be able to make a solid assessment one I get my hands on the book, but for anyone else who currently has it - what's your take on it?

You make a good point there. The main downside of borgs vs. supers though is that the SDC of supers can regenerate on their own. Borgs need repairs.

Of course, if you play smart you won't need repairs very much.

[Daniel Stoker]

I'll be able to make a solid assessment one I get my hands on the book, but for anyone else who currently has it - what's your take on it?

You make a good point there. The main downside of borgs vs. supers though is that the SDC of supers can regenerate on their own. Borgs need repairs.

Of course, if you play smart you won't need repairs very much.

Eugenics can also buy BETTER regeneration, and like I stated before they get access to all those abilities as WELL as a near full suite of psi-powers. Personally I think I'll be limiting if a Eugenic Character can get access to Psi or not dependent on what other stuff they want.



Daniel Stoker

[Cardiac]

Hmmm....

Bionics:
Cannot Heal Itself (unless the repair system in the AU-GG is purchased)
Immune to many things that would harm flesh and blood bodies.
Can be upgraded and improved on

Eugenics:
Can heal
Is vulnerable to everything that will affect a normal person (unless a resistance is purchaced)
Cannot be upgraded at a later date.

The physical/mental abberations can occur in both classes.

Hmmm, as for the actual power of the modifications.....I will have to see if they stack up to the Bionics category.

[Daniel Stoker]

They can also buy regeneration too allowing them to regrow limbs.



Daniel Stoker

[Cardiac]

Well, if I see it's really that bad once i get the book - the easiest and most logical change would be to reduce the budget.

[Preacher]

PU2 has got me thinking and I was wondering you'll be using any of the Heroes options in the Atorians book. The Eugenics category and Super Invention category seem to appeal to the Atorians especially. I could imagine a number of special atorian operatives wandering around with Force Aura belts, Energy Expulsion Gauntlets, or Sonic Flight battle suits. Similarly, the Super Soldier table seems to fit the Atorian feel as well, massively upgraded warriors of destruction with special vehicles and weapon systems.

Considering the Eugenics and Super Soldier categories found in PU2 are absolutely unacceptable to me as a Heroes Unlimited fan, I really doubt that. The super soldier gets two full sets of powers, (either super or soldier categories and up to 4 rolls on the old style super soldier abilities table), plus they get a robotics class weapon and a minor hardware vehicle. That's like a secret operative with two full sets of super abilities or an alien with an extra set of full blown powers (which brings scary images to my mind since aliens can also be super soldiers, including abrasive, insect, and God forbid, mineral), but that pales compared to Eugenics, which allows you to stack on ten minor powers and two major powers, all for just less than the minimum possible budget. That's way out of control.

.

I completely disagree with your acessment on PU2 Wayne. I don't see it as any more powerful than The Mega in the main book or the three major three minors option either. I am totally suprised by this opinion from you. With your incredable imagination I expected a more open mind than this I guess. I did not expect this "Too Powerful" stuff from such a good writer. Oh well to each his own I guess.

[Wayne_Breaux]

I completely disagree with your acessment on PU2 Wayne. I don't see it as any more powerful than The Mega in the main book or the three major three minors option either. I am totally suprised by this opinion from you. With your incredable imagination I expected a more open mind than this I guess. I did not expect this "Too Powerful" stuff from such a good writer. Oh well to each his own I guess.

The mega is optional, not a 'normal' power category, despite what the GI and CS books may impress upon you (PU2 clarified that optional status specifically), and I have always had issues with them. Turning HU into a well balanced and interesting game without turning everything that breathes into a mega-mutant-goober-monster is the trait of a "good writer" and can be done by anyone (not just a writer) with an "imagination", let alone and incredible one. Giving people everything they could ever munch in one package rarely has anything to do with good writing nor imagination.

[Preacher]

I completely disagree with your acessment on PU2 Wayne. I don't see it as any more powerful than The Mega in the main book or the three major three minors option either. I am totally suprised by this opinion from you. With your incredable imagination I expected a more open mind than this I guess. I did not expect this "Too Powerful" stuff from such a good writer. Oh well to each his own I guess.

. Giving people everything they could ever munch in one package rarely has anything to do with good writing nor imagination.

Nor does LIMITING HEROES UNLIMITED!!! Also lableing someone "MUNCH" just because they don't think something is too powerful because you like to "LIMIT' the way you play doesn't show great amounts of openmindedness on your part. Mega is optional?!?!? Well no kidding. GM's can allow or disallow Eugenics as well or cap it.
Oh and I guess Kevin disagreed with you on PU2 also since he put it out. Glad he is the final say on the issue.

[Yukon]

this is getting ugly...

[Tinker Dragoon]

Different visions of how the game is to be are a reality of the design process when you give it to multiple independent authors to write. I daresay it is a big part of why Mr. Siembieda has let other authors do the books, because he likes their diverse views. There's no need to make this a Breaux vs. Bellaire contest.

And it should be noted that Wayne didn't decry Powers Unlimited 2 for being too powerful or "munchy," he just said he didn't like it as a fan of the game, and thinks that some of the new categories are not balanced well against those in the main book. And it may be true, but that's not necessarily a good or bad thing, just a difference between authors.

[Preacher]

this is getting ugly...

You are right. I apologize and will bow out.

[Carmen]

Hey Wayne and everyone

Well I admit that the Eugenics can produce some powerful characters, the PU series of books are just to expand the range of characters that are possible in HU2, some classes are very weak (like the Natural Genius) others are mid range (like the empowered hero or the Imbued hero) others are more powerful (like Eugenics or the Super Soldier) but I also included the minor hero option for just this reason, so that GMs have an "official" way to limit those classes that they themselves find to powerful. As far as Wayne vs Carmen, I personal hope not, the alien genetics in his book spawned the Eugenics rules in the first place, Eugenics was a natural out growth of what he has writen. Are the powerful, sure they are, but we are talking about altering the fundemental building blocks of life here, it dont get much more powerful than that. As for the new Super Soilders, I dont find them powerful, just complete, if you do just "say no" to their special weapons and vehicles. THanks Carmen