I figured out how to fix Rifts space

[Zurmash]

Just sub in the stuff from Eclipse Phase so that the earth blockade makes sense. And you also get a bunch of badass Golden Age bio and cyber stuff.

[Shorty Lickens]

what?

[taalismn]

what?

Merge with a different game system. Thing is, Eclipse Phase(which deals with a much more advanced post-technological singularity/post-human Sol System) is much more cyberpunkish setting than Rifts Earth(the 'rifts' in EP are the result of technological creation so advanced it may as well be magic).

It's not a fix as much as it's a plug-in that still requires the GM to try to convert all the super-tech goodness hinted at(such as uplifted animals and body/sleeve-swapping Altered Carbon style).

[Zurmash]

Obviously not take the whole thing and just mash em together, but if someone ever asks again "what was golden age tech like?", whip out EP tech. That would seriously emphasis how truly hard the Cataclysm hurt earth. Triax can do some of the stuff(transferred consciousness and whatnot), but man...it would totally put the CS in its place. Or, use it for examples of 3 galaxies tech. Not the whole shebang though.

[asajosh]

In what way was Rifts Space broken?

[ShadowLogan]

Just sub in the stuff from Eclipse Phase so that the earth blockade makes sense. And you also get a bunch of badass Golden Age bio and cyber stuff.

Well there are probably easier way: the blockade is a actually a natural phenomena that is difficult to navigate and the orbitals just then have to cover the "exit corridors".

[jaymz]

I'd rather tweak starblade battalion or jovian chronicles myself if I wanted to do a "quick fix" but that's me....

[The Beast]

Just sub in the stuff from Eclipse Phase so that the earth blockade makes sense. And you also get a bunch of badass Golden Age bio and cyber stuff.

Well there are probably easier way: the blockade is a actually a natural phenomena that is difficult to navigate and the orbitals just then have to cover the "exit corridors".

[eliakon]

In what way was Rifts Space broken?

Because some people don't like how it is presented, and thus it is obviously broken.
I find it hilarious that every suggestion on how to 'fix' things invariably starts with "discard everything and replace it with my vision of how Rifts Space should be"

I will be honest here. I don't like how it is presented either.
Which is why I tend to alter it a bit. I add more stations, split up the moon, keep Mars settled, add some mining colonies on Mercury, Venus, the Asteroid Belt and the jovian moons...
stuff like that.

[taalismn]

Just sub in the stuff from Eclipse Phase so that the earth blockade makes sense. And you also get a bunch of badass Golden Age bio and cyber stuff.

Well there are probably easier way: the blockade is a actually a natural phenomena that is difficult to navigate and the orbitals just then have to cover the "exit corridors".

Yeah, that's how I handle it.

In a way, the whole way the thing was handled by Palladium reminds me a bit of the Earth/Solar System in 'Gunn/Battle Angel Alita'....you've got this Earth crawling with technobarbarians sifting though the wreckage of the past, seemingly unaware of this whole solar system teeming with advanced tech humans and post-humans, yet nobody on planet's picked up any radio signals, noted any drive flares, or knows squat about what's going on at the upper end of the space-elevator, which is conveniently pinched off by the powers that be.

[DhAkael]

Just sub in the stuff from Eclipse Phase so that the earth blockade makes sense. And you also get a bunch of badass Golden Age bio and cyber stuff.

Well there are probably easier way: the blockade is a actually a natural phenomena that is difficult to navigate and the orbitals just then have to cover the "exit corridors".

Yeah, that's how I handle it.

In a way, the whole way the thing was handled by Palladium reminds me a bit of the Earth/Solar System in 'Gunn/Battle Angel Alita'....you've got this Earth crawling with technobarbarians sifting though the wreckage of the past, seemingly unaware of this whole solar system teeming with advanced tech humans and post-humans, yet nobody on planet's picked up any radio signals, noted any drive flares, or knows squat about what's going on at the upper end of the space-elevator, which is conveniently pinched off by the powers that be.

Yoko *slipping into her 'Berserker' frame*: "Hold my bubble tea..."

[Warshield73]

In what way was Rifts Space broken?

Because some people don't like how it is presented, and thus it is obviously broken.
I find it hilarious that every suggestion on how to 'fix' things invariably starts with "discard everything and replace it with my vision of how Rifts Space should be"

I will be honest here. I don't like how it is presented either.
Which is why I tend to alter it a bit. I add more stations, split up the moon, keep Mars settled, add some mining colonies on Mercury, Venus, the Asteroid Belt and the jovian moons...
stuff like that.

To be fair the information on the Solar System is so out of date and the supposedly Golden Age tech is so underpowered compared to CE and NEMA that it really does need a complete rewrite. I have not really used Rifts Space in my campaign since the late '90's but even then I had to make big changes, many similar to yours. I also added an extra solar colony and some aliens as I had a "Rift Zone" that was about 100 light years in diameter.

If I was doing it now I would totally use a lot of things from Rifter 56 including the magic zone that is 300 LYs across and growing at the speed of light. I would also add the Arkohn colony on Mars.

The big broken issue with Rifts space is actually the ships. When my group did Rifts space in the early 90's we did everything with thrust or linear gravity because we had all played the old TSR Star Frontiers game and that's what it used. A proper Rifts space should have several ships that use thrust and spin gravity.

The best "fix" for Rifts Space would actually be the Expanse not Eclipse Phase.

[DhAkael]

The best "fix" for Rifts Space would actually be The Expanse not Eclipse Phase.

THIS right here...
O/P no be beltah loadah, saz-sah kay.

[glitterboy2098]

In what way was Rifts Space broken?

Because some people don't like how it is presented, and thus it is obviously broken.
I find it hilarious that every suggestion on how to 'fix' things invariably starts with "discard everything and replace it with my vision of how Rifts Space should be"

I will be honest here. I don't like how it is presented either.
Which is why I tend to alter it a bit. I add more stations, split up the moon, keep Mars settled, add some mining colonies on Mercury, Venus, the Asteroid Belt and the jovian moons...
stuff like that.

I agree.. mostly. the things many people bring up with it (mainly regardign the interdiction of earth) isn't really an issue with the setting, just with how people view it. functionally the combination of a debris shell to block easy access with a network of combat sats to shoot up anything that is able to get through the shell would work. the problem is mostly the usual one of PB's fluff and their stats not matching up well. which honestly can be fixed fairly easily by a GM. (hell, just toss a few extra zero's on the range and damage. done)

the real issue with Rifts:Space is one that effects the After the Bomb material in MIO as well.. specifically in how small the setting is. you have all these spaceships able to cross our solar system within reasonable (weeks to months) timeframes. yet outside of earth's orbital shells, there is very little to do. even in rifts, where you get the Arkhon's added in, it still feels really tiny, because there still isn't much outside earth orbit.

as a setting it should have extensive colonization throughout the system. after all, they've had decades pre-rifts and 300 years post-rifts to do so, and it isn't like earth orbit has much in the way of natural resources to exploit. even access to the moon. they'd have to go elsewhere to get the really useful stuff. asteroid mining through the Near-earth and main belt asteroids. stuff going on at the other planets.. Venus would be easier to terraform than mars, why couldn't there be floating "cloud cities" there supported by their own bouyancy? (Oxygen is a lifting gas in the venusian atmosphere . and the stratosphere of it is tolerable temps and above the acid clouds.) why wouldn't someone have tried to mine mercury? Jupiter's Galilean moons are prime real estate in the outer system, perfect outposts, refueling points, and jumping off points for long trips to the outer system, even the Kuiper Belt and Oort cloud. Saturn's moons are filled with exotic options and mysteries. etc.
in rifts especially, there is no excuse for not being able to populate the system more, since we know the technology pre0rifts was pretty good, and had things like cryo-sleep and the like, which would make travel times more bearable. and the addition of magic and unknown histories in rifts opens up lots of options. ancient precursor artifacts, rifted in ecologies and Dbee colonists, dimensional invaders.. lots of potential there.

[taalismn]

The best "fix" for Rifts Space would actually be The Expanse not Eclipse Phase.

THIS right here...
O/P no be beltah loadah, saz-sah kay.

I second this.

Expanse, maybe with a few gene-mods and space-modded animals, makes more sense that all out post-human Eclipse Phase.

[Warshield73]

The best "fix" for Rifts Space would actually be The Expanse not Eclipse Phase.

THIS right here...
O/P no be beltah loadah, saz-sah kay.

I second this.

Expanse, maybe with a few gene-mods and space-modded animals, makes more sense that all out post-human Eclipse Phase.

It also needs empty areas or a frontier for explorers or places for demons to hide. The graveyard and abandoned Mars base are OK but more is needed. If you have a large space based population with dozens of stations and asteroid / moon colonies then many of those can be abandoned, or overrun with demons and monsters.

To me mutant animals is kind of problamatic. I mean there has to be enough of one species for them to naturaly reproduce or you need a faction that is still cranking them out.

This has been said before but Rifts Space is not so much broken as nonexistent. he problem is that it was tacked on to an After the Bomb book that was already pretty thin to begin with. I hope that if someone ever sits down to write an actual Rifts Space book they will take the freedom to really expand the setting and not feel too constrained by Mutants in Orbit.

[Zurmash]

I totally agree that Expanse is a better fit. The Jovian junta from EP would be a good Coalitionish faction to throw in... Expanse did make me hate how railguns are depicted in rifts. The point defense cannons on the Rocinante seem more like rifts railguns, whereas the real railguns are nigh unstoppable beasts. I think some of the EP tech would be cool here and there, have the mutants be more like the Lonestar creatures than AtB. Space chimp scientists! Plus, there should definitely be a big Russian space presence, US/multinational on the Moon, and China on Mars(original reason for building Geofront was to develop space colony tech...). China vs Arkhons...oh yeah.

[lather]

A rich space environment just doesn't fit the original theme of Rifts, which was always supposed to be local.
An idea that perhaps hasn't aged well.

[taalismn]

A rich space environment just doesn't fit the original theme of Rifts, which was always supposed to be local.
An idea that perhaps hasn't aged well.

Ya. TOO many settlers in space always raises the possibility that they might become a faction powerful enough to dramatically affect events on Earth and become players there.
Arguably, they have to be beset with so many threats from OUT THERE that they either use Golden Age superrich to leave Earth/Sol System and take their chances elsewhere, or they're so busy fighting and scraping for a living, they can't focus their efforts on Earth.

[Warshield73]

A rich space environment just doesn't fit the original theme of Rifts, which was always supposed to be local.
An idea that perhaps hasn't aged well.

Ya. TOO many settlers in space always raises the possibility that they might become a faction powerful enough to dramatically affect events on Earth and become players there.
Arguably, they have to be beset with so many threats from OUT THERE that they either use Golden Age superrich to leave Earth/Sol System and take their chances elsewhere, or they're so busy fighting and scraping for a living, they can't focus their efforts on Earth.

As written the people of Rifts space are terrified of Earth and want nothing to do with it. Earth containment is big with them. I used Rifts Space as part of the setting for like 15 years with my original Rifts group and it wasn't at all disruptive. Weapons from South America, now those are disruptive.

The dimensional rifts and ley lines in near earth orbit make it a bad place to hang out anyway. If a writer were concerned about this you could move all the stations from Earth orbit or the Earth-Luna Lagrange points and put them in orbit around Luna or at the Sol-Earth Lagrange Points. I actually really like this idea because it spreads settlers out even in the inner system. Somebody earlier mentioned a Chinese station, I could totally see China setting up a station in the Sol-Earth L3 position were it would be harder for people to see them and they would be a safe distance from the monsters that come from Earth..

The number of settlers isn't a problem, truthfully as written in the book there aren't enough to even be that interesting. If you increase the number of settlements to include the Jovian and Saturn systems as well as Mars and the Belt and you can vast isolated areas that would fit the idea of Rifts just fine.

[DhAkael]

The number of settlers isn't a problem, truthfully as written in the book there aren't enough to even be that interesting. If you increase the number of settlements to include the Jovian and Saturn systems as well as Mars and the Belt and you can vast isolated areas that would fit the idea of Rifts just fine.

Just be sure your Epstein Drives are tuned and the He3 tanks are topped up. Otherwise the games are gonna be a whole bunch of "time skip ensues! 3 months later".

[Warshield73]

The number of settlers isn't a problem, truthfully as written in the book there aren't enough to even be that interesting. If you increase the number of settlements to include the Jovian and Saturn systems as well as Mars and the Belt and you can vast isolated areas that would fit the idea of Rifts just fine.

Just be sure your Epstein Drives are tuned and the He3 tanks are topped up. Otherwise the games are gonna be a whole bunch of "time skip ensues! 3 months later".

You can always go "teakettle" or slingshot through the system.

Seriousely Rifts space would be more interesting if ships were powered by He3 or SLMH where they could run out of gas.

[glitterboy2098]

In MiO they use plain hydrogen (probably dueterium) and actually can run out of gas, since there are fueltanks. But there are no rules for determining how big those tanks are, or how to determine when they'd run dry.

[Warshield73]

In MiO they use plain hydrogen (probably dueterium) and actually can run out of gas, since there are fueltanks.

I agree, in fact in my game Freedom Station and Laiko Station have giant hydrogen "farms" gathering it from space and selling it for fuel. I only used He3 and SLMH as examples because He3 was in his post and SLMH was in Robotech.

But there are no rules for determining how big those tanks are, or how to determine when they'd run dry.

This is always a problem. In any game that has fuel you always have a hard time keeping track but space is tough because engines can shut down and drift. Atmosphere is easiear for electric, gas or even protoculture because they have a range, usually in hundreds of miles, and they just keep track of miles like shots for a magazine or e-clip.

[ShadowLogan]

In MiO they use plain hydrogen (probably dueterium) and actually can run out of gas, since there are fueltanks.

Fuels identified in MiO pg81:
-Chemical Drive: Hydrogen/Oxygen Mix
-Ion Drive: Hydrogen/electricity
-Plasma Drive: Deuterium/helium-3/electricity
-Traction Drive: Deuterium/helium-3/electricity

So depending on the drive, we know they use at least two forms of hydrogen, plus Helium-3 (which means they are using more powerful nuclear fusion systems than fusing just straight hydrogen isotopes).

But there are no rules for determining how big those tanks are, or how to determine when they'd run dry

We know how big the tanks are for the Chemical, Ion, and Fusion Drives in MiO. All 3 have pg81 in MiO "Optional Bigger Fuel Tank: An additional (...) tons for a double size fuel tank, doubles the range, (some even increase top speed)."-parts in parenthesis have changing values based on type of drive.

This means we know how big the fuel tanks are on those types of drives (Traction and Solar Sail use a backup propulsion system). Given the "atmospheric" model presentation of those stats PB uses, we know how "fast" they can get (Speed Class), and how far they can go "effective range), which gives us a "burn time" which means we also know how fast the fuel is consumed.

[TechnoGothic]

Rifts Space isn't broken
What was Golden Age tech like ???
See Chaos Earth, Rifts Japan, Rifts Russia Warlords, Rifts Underseas, Rifts Lonestar, Rifts FreeQuebec, Rifts Mutants in Orbit, Rifts Sourcebook One, Two, Three...

[Warshield73]

Rifts Space isn't broken
What was Golden Age tech like ???
See Chaos Earth, Rifts Japan, Rifts Russia Warlords, Rifts Underseas, Rifts Lonestar, Rifts FreeQuebec, Rifts Mutants in Orbit, Rifts Sourcebook One, Two, Three...

Have to disagree. When you have take parts from a dozen different to fill in holes and bind it together with house rules and information from other games (such as Robotech) it is by definition broken.

Now, I excuse how broken Rifts space is by the fact that it was really just bolted on to an After the Bomb book but it is really broken to the point that, as I said earlier, a page one rewrite is in order.

[eliakon]

One thing to consider also is WHEN MiO was published.
Today, we are sitting here looking back at more than 30 years of material so its easy to feel that the early books were shoddy...
...but when they came out there wasn't a lot for them to build on. The deep history and complex back stories that we take for granted now... they were being built back then.
The foundational technologies were being figured out and the shape and limits of the world just being set up.

[Warshield73]

One thing to consider also is WHEN MiO was published.
Today, we are sitting here looking back at more than 30 years of material so its easy to feel that the early books were shoddy...
...but when they came out there wasn't a lot for them to build on. The deep history and complex back stories that we take for granted now... they were being built back then.
The foundational technologies were being figured out and the shape and limits of the world just being set up.

Agreed, but to be fair when you compare it to WB2 Atlantis and WB5 Triax, both out within a year or so of MiO, it is really poorly done.

[Kovoston]

Somebody tackled Rifts Space in Rifter number 56. pg. 17.

[Warshield73]

Somebody tackled Rifts Space in Rifter number 56. pg. 17.

This is actually some good stuff and I have used some of it in my own campaigns, admittedly only at the edges, but it doesn't fundamentally fix anything. It really just adds a new menace, goes into some greater detail on the Arkohns whose position in the Orbital Community is only Mention in South America 2, and provides about 8 years of recent history. No human ships, no golden age tech, nothing about the outer planets.

Really good stuff though so if this writer wanted to tackle the rewrite of Rifts Space I would buy it.

[Blue_Lion]

My fix was easy, I don't use it. I just go with there is some orbital system in place that stopped early attempts to get in orbit so every major tech knows if they try there ship will be destroyed. So it is not worth wasting the resources to try and over come it. (because I do not play mutants in orbit I do not need to treat it like it is broken, just that it is off limits.)

[Warshield73]

My fix was easy, I don't use it. I just go with there is some orbital system in place that stopped early attempts to get in orbit so every major tech knows if they try there ship will be destroyed. So it is not worth wasting the resources to try and over come it. (because I do not play mutants in orbit I do not need to treat it like it is broken, just that it is off limits.)

This is the great thing about every part of Rifts. Don't like a book? Don't think it fits with your campaign? Don't use it.

[Hotrod]

I've never used Rifts Space. The mystery of it presented in RMB was really neat. What I read in MiO wasn't. Four aspects about MiO bother me:

1. The decision to apply the same sourcebook to two very different settings didn't work; it's confusing to have to switch gears between settings as you read and apply the book to a game.
2. The orbital communities' stance on containing Earth is nonsensical. Humans in orbit could benefit from Earth-based support, and humans on Earth could benefit from orbit-based support. I can't buy that everyone in orbit was like "oh hey, there's a massive disaster and alien invasion on Earth, our home planet. Screw the survivors! Screw our own families still down there! We're on our own! Let's kill everyone who tries to resupply us or join us up here where it's safe!"
3. The isolation between orbit and Earth is physically nonsensical. Ships in space can see and talk via radio to folks on the ground, and vice-versa. Anyone with a decent telescope or parabolic radar dish could see or listen to orbital radio chatter, and it defies the imagination that no-one would even try to help out the 99.99% of their species down below with simple-to-provide things like orbital imagery/recon, weather information, communication relays, et cetera.
4. There's nothing interesting going on in space. There's no important conflict other than the nonsensical "screw Earth and the other 99.99% of our species" containment, there's nothing new or interesting in terms of capabilities, there's essentially no reason for player characters to go there, and there's no reason to go back to Earth.

If I were to rewrite Rifts Space, I'd probably have the killer satellite network controlled by an AI gone rogue (a la HAL from 2001) and have the survivors struggling to survive in other parts of the solar system with the goal of taking back Earth's orbital space. I might allow a small, secretive group to smuggle a few folks on and off Earth and try tying them into the Republicans, as the off-Earth humans' conflict with the killer satellite AI would parallel the Republicans against ARCHIE. This would keep Rifts Earth totally isolated without turning all humans off Earth into stupid jerks. It would also create a conflict in space that would make this part of the setting more interesting and give some reason to move characters and stuff to and from space on a limited basis.

[ShadowLogan]

1. The decision to apply the same sourcebook to two very different settings didn't work; it's confusing to have to switch gears between settings as you read and apply the book to a game.

I'll grant you this it could have been presented and organized better.

2. The orbital communities' stance on containing Earth is nonsensical. Humans in orbit could benefit from Earth-based support, and humans on Earth could benefit from orbit-based support. I can't buy that everyone in orbit was like "oh hey, there's a massive disaster and alien invasion on Earth, our home planet. Screw the survivors! Screw our own families still down there! We're on our own! Let's kill everyone who tries to resupply us or join us up here where it's safe!"

Earth though is no position to offer support to the orbitals during the Dark Ages. They don't have orbital launch capabilities to send stuff up, which means the Orbitals would have to establish the necessary infrastructure on the ground (they might not be capable of it, Earth Surface to even Low Orbit is a lot more demanding in terms of propulsion than Lunar/Martian Surface to low orbit).

It doesn't have to be "everyone in orbit", but it could be a majority decision. The Orbitals had their own fallout from the cataclysm to deal with to with no support for Earth. Even once they did get themselves situated, Earth appeared to be "lost" and indications of no/few survivors (human) per text. What was on Earth was a mess and alien invaders that had to be contained (at minimum). The Orbitals likely have no way to know if what is being launched is "friendly" or "hostile", and have chosen a "shoot first ask questions later" policy.

While the Orbitals likely can provide information to humans on the ground, those humans on the ground are seen as the enemy.

3. The isolation between orbit and Earth is physically nonsensical. Ships in space can see and talk via radio to folks on the ground, and vice-versa. Anyone with a decent telescope or parabolic radar dish could see or listen to orbital radio chatter, and it defies the imagination that no-one would even try to help out the 99.99% of their species down below with simple-to-provide things like orbital imagery/recon, weather information, communication relays, et cetera.

Visually those on the surface aren't going to really be able to see anything, the ships and stations are just to small for those distances (Eurostation might be the exception), and those people on the surface aren't really going to know what it is they see (at best they will see a point of light). Most of the Orbital Community is at Lunar Distance from Earth (CAN, Laika, Freedom, Japanese) or farther (Outcast, Mars, Independents/Asteroids), with the exception of Yuro (Earth Geo-stationary). This means you need a powerful optical telescope, or resources to do non-optical astronomy (which those on the ground might have other more pressing matters to devote resources to).

As for picking up radio chatter this assumes the signals are strong enough (and you have a suitable sensitive receiver), the signals aren't directional or otherwise encrypted/protected. Not to mention possible Ley Line/Rift interference.

4. There's nothing interesting going on in space. There's no important conflict other than the nonsensical "screw Earth and the other 99.99% of our species" containment, there's nothing new or interesting in terms of capabilities, there's essentially no reason for player characters to go there, and there's no reason to go back to Earth.

I disagree, even without SA2 and the Arkhon arrival, it can be interesting:
-CAN Republic vs Freedom (or other powers going for Resource Wars)
-Mars (maybe the PCs attempt to establish a new base on the surface in the terraform zone, or sent on a mission to the original colony site to collect lost information, could Martian Pryamids be True Atlantean in origin, etc)
-Yuro (spy on member block)
-exploration into Graveyard, or elsewhere in the solar system (to date Rifts Space hasn't really been expanded upon officially giving the GM free reign to add/develop as they see fit)
-containment duties (Earth Orbit patrols, indications other portals exist, we know one such site on the Moon)
-could explore ethics (Outcasts, apply a little realism to stories with cold realities of space travel like in the short story "The Cold Equation")

[Hotrod]

1. The decision to apply the same sourcebook to two very different settings didn't work; it's confusing to have to switch gears between settings as you read and apply the book to a game.

I'll grant you this it could have been presented and organized better.

Even if it had, the dual setting nature of the product was, in my opinion, a fatal flaw. Producing content that can be applied to multiple settings is fine, and conversion books and weapon compendiums are very solid products within Palladium's game line. Presenting setting-specific stuff for two very different settings in the same product is implicitly awkward, and it forces the reader, who usually is interested in one setting, to deconflict content for two.

2. The orbital communities' stance on containing Earth is nonsensical. Humans in orbit could benefit from Earth-based support, and humans on Earth could benefit from orbit-based support. I can't buy that everyone in orbit was like "oh hey, there's a massive disaster and alien invasion on Earth, our home planet. Screw the survivors! Screw our own families still down there! We're on our own! Let's kill everyone who tries to resupply us or join us up here where it's safe!"

Earth though is no position to offer support to the orbitals during the Dark Ages. They don't have orbital launch capabilities to send stuff up, which means the Orbitals would have to establish the necessary infrastructure on the ground (they might not be capable of it, Earth Surface to even Low Orbit is a lot more demanding in terms of propulsion than Lunar/Martian Surface to low orbit).

It doesn't have to be "everyone in orbit", but it could be a majority decision. The Orbitals had their own fallout from the cataclysm to deal with to with no support for Earth. Even once they did get themselves situated, Earth appeared to be "lost" and indications of no/few survivors (human) per text. What was on Earth was a mess and alien invaders that had to be contained (at minimum). The Orbitals likely have no way to know if what is being launched is "friendly" or "hostile", and have chosen a "shoot first ask questions later" policy.

While the Orbitals likely can provide information to humans on the ground, those humans on the ground are seen as the enemy.

Your statement on Earth's capabilities is incorrect. Triax never suffered a dark age, it has space-capable aircraft, and it has tried to launch spacecraft. Triax would gladly trade support for basic services like communication relay, orbital recon, et cetera. There are canon sources indicating that human powers have tried to reach orbit.

What's more, your position is contradictory. If no-one on Earth could get to orbit, then there's no need to contain Earth. If there is a need to contain the non-human threats on Earth, then they could be better contained on the ground by working together with humans on the ground.

Despite this, MiO presents the Orbitals as 100% in lock step with the "Screw Earth" policy. I can't accept the explanation or portrayal; it breaks immersion for me.

3. The isolation between orbit and Earth is physically nonsensical. Ships in space can see and talk via radio to folks on the ground, and vice-versa. Anyone with a decent telescope or parabolic radar dish could see or listen to orbital radio chatter, and it defies the imagination that no-one would even try to help out the 99.99% of their species down below with simple-to-provide things like orbital imagery/recon, weather information, communication relays, et cetera.

Visually those on the surface aren't going to really be able to see anything, the ships and stations are just to small for those distances (Eurostation might be the exception), and those people on the surface aren't really going to know what it is they see (at best they will see a point of light). Most of the Orbital Community is at Lunar Distance from Earth (CAN, Laika, Freedom, Japanese) or farther (Outcast, Mars, Independents/Asteroids), with the exception of Yuro (Earth Geo-stationary). This means you need a powerful optical telescope, or resources to do non-optical astronomy (which those on the ground might have other more pressing matters to devote resources to).

As for picking up radio chatter this assumes the signals are strong enough (and you have a suitable sensitive receiver), the signals aren't directional or otherwise encrypted/protected. Not to mention possible Ley Line/Rift interference.

Ley Line/Rift interference isn't a thing, or at least it's not a constant thing; there are radios in canon that can communicate 120+ miles away, ground-to-ground, on Earth. The NGR and Japanese Cities would have records of the orbital stations and the technology to both listen and talk with them. It doesn't take a giant parabolic dish to communicate with satellites in geosynchronous orbit.

Even if the folks on Earth didn't know anything about the Orbitals, it makes no sense for the Orbitals to not know anything about what's going on with humanity on Earth. They must know that civilization is thriving there in many parts, because they'd see the lights on the night side of Earth that aren't ley lines. They have to be watching Earth closely if they're actively containing it; otherwise, how would they know where/how to place killer satellites/debris? Furthermore, how would they even know that there's a threat at all? Any cursory effort to study what's happening on Earth's surface would reveal human civilization.

Of course, this is also a book where ships and weapons have ranges and maximum speeds in space. I can live with bad physics, and this point is something of a nitpick.

4. There's nothing interesting going on in space. There's no important conflict other than the nonsensical "screw Earth and the other 99.99% of our species" containment, there's nothing new or interesting in terms of capabilities, there's essentially no reason for player characters to go there, and there's no reason to go back to Earth.

I disagree, even without SA2 and the Arkhon arrival, it can be interesting:
-CAN Republic vs Freedom (or other powers going for Resource Wars)
-Mars (maybe the PCs attempt to establish a new base on the surface in the terraform zone, or sent on a mission to the original colony site to collect lost information, could Martian Pryamids be True Atlantean in origin, etc)
-Yuro (spy on member block)
-exploration into Graveyard, or elsewhere in the solar system (to date Rifts Space hasn't really been expanded upon officially giving the GM free reign to add/develop as they see fit)
-containment duties (Earth Orbit patrols, indications other portals exist, we know one such site on the Moon)
-could explore ethics (Outcasts, apply a little realism to stories with cold realities of space travel like in the short story "The Cold Equation")

+Neither CAN nor Freedom are sufficiently developed to make the conflict interesting. Also, space combat doesn't really work in the game. Also, even these adversaries cooperate in containing Earth, so how much conflict can there really be between them?
+Mars is insufficiently developed; a few paragraphs about bugs and terraforming gone wrong does not make for interesting content.
+Yuro is insufficiently developed.
+Exploration is fun, but giving GM's a blank slate is not interesting. Giving GM's a mystery to play with is interesting, and that's what RMB gave us. What MiO gave us was, in my opinion, fatally inadequate, and expanding upon it would be a mistake; far better to go back to RMB's bit and re-work it.
+I love ethical dilemma scenarios, but again, I don't consider blank slates or inadequately developed settings to be interesting content.

I love Rifts, and I love many of its early books, but I'd put MiO as my second-from-least-favorite book, just above the Rifts novel, Sonic Boom. It doesn't hurt the setting for me, per se, since it's so isolated that it might as well be another dimension. However, it does nothing to pique my interest. To use Kevin's parlance, I don't see a "wow factor" in MiO beyond the cover, which is admittedly pretty cool-looking (and has little to do with the content).

[ShadowLogan]

Your statement on Earth's capabilities is incorrect. Triax never suffered a dark age, it has space-capable aircraft, and it has tried to launch spacecraft. Triax would gladly trade support for basic services like communication relay, orbital recon, et cetera. There are canon sources indicating that human powers have tried to reach orbit.

What's more, your position is contradictory. If no-one on Earth could get to orbit, then there's no need to contain Earth. If there is a need to contain the non-human threats on Earth, then they could be better contained on the ground by working together with humans on the ground.

Despite this, MiO presents the Orbitals as 100% in lock step with the "Screw Earth" policy. I can't accept the explanation or portrayal; it breaks immersion for me.

While Triax/NGR might not have suffered a Dark Age like North America, WB5 does indicate a collapse of civilization (WB5 pg13: "The eruption of the ley lines were far les severe and although millions died, cities crumbled and civilization collapsed, la large number of people survived.", last paragraph on the page). And Triax Industries DID suffer losses (50% of assets and 16% of its technology was lost, WB5 pg14), and the NGR really wasn't formed until 100 years into the Dark Age (pg14).

By Space-capable aircraft if you mean the XM-288 in WB5 it is specifically identified as sub-orbital (it's altitude limit is 100,000ft/30km, with a top speed of Mach 4.5, speed wise it can not get into orbit even by Palladium Standards of Mach 5, and low earth orbit is around 160km). I know the books state Triax has attempted to reach space, but gave up at some point (sorry can't find it at the moment, might be in a book I don't own, but have read) due to the activity of the Orbitals (metagaming).

"Centuries ago, the inhabitants of the space colonies realized that their homeworld had become a threat to them."-MIO pg61. It isn't just humans we have to consider, but also things the Rifts might spew out (and we know they can release things into space). Probes sent to the surface (MiO pg57) early on showed survival with a slim to none chance (for them). And indications are they had no contact from Earth in over a year, so the cold shoulder they give could be a collective mindset of "getting even" (and after 300 years the two populations of humans might evolve in different directions creating new species). Also keep in mind that Rifts drop off things in space, so the cutting Earth off might be a something they justify to deal with the more immediate arrivals in space (lower categories of Earth Orbit might be relative "hot beds").

Ley Line/Rift interference isn't a thing, or at least it's not a constant thing; there are radios in canon that can communicate 120+ miles away, ground-to-ground, on Earth. The NGR and Japanese Cities would have records of the orbital stations and the technology to both listen and talk with them. It doesn't take a giant parabolic dish to communicate with satellites in geosynchronous orbit.

You might be right about the Interference thing, I don't know. It just seems logical that those anomalies would cause disruptions near them, either directly or indirectly.

Find me a radio from Rifts Earth that has a listed range of 100,000km (that reaches Yuro, never mind the 384000+km for Freedom, Lakia, the Moon). I know Archie-3 has hacked a satellite for his use, and yes records likely exist all over, even the technology to reach them. However you assume that the communications the orbitals are broadcasting in the clear (they might not be, especially military) and that the orbitals will respond to transmissions (none of the Rifts Earth powers would be recognized as their pre-Rifts sponsors). You also assume the Orbitals have not deployed some level of communication jamming satellites as part of the containment (in the books proper ECM/ECCM is barely developed).

The ability of the orbitals to monitor Earth is possible, and has to occur on some level in order to counter attempts to reach space the old fashioned way (rocket launch). That doesn't mean they have a complete picture, or see a picture they like (would Freedom/CAN being US-offshoots really see the CS as something to "like"?).

+Neither CAN nor Freedom are sufficiently developed to make the conflict interesting. Also, space combat doesn't really work in the game. Also, even these adversaries cooperate in containing Earth, so how much conflict can there really be between them?

Review pg58 of MiO, they go into the reasons why a conflict would erupt. Granted it isn't fully explored, but we know the reasons for such a conflict to erupt. And even with those pacts, SA2 had the Arkhons (pg68 in WB9) essentially stop a battle just before it erupted (both sides seeing the Arkhons as the more important matter to deal with).

While I can agree that the setting isn't more fully developed and is more of a blank slate, that is the way Rifts started with RMB IMHO. It wasn't much more developed in the Main Book than MiO really is. Phaseworld series also starts off this way to. This could indicate that MiO could just need additional material to be added (not saying they should keep the AtB/Rifts combo, AtB line appears to be dead), something that hasn't happened yet (and likely won't).

[Hotrod]

Sub-orbital is still space-capable. It's just not orbit-capable. Given the hardware and directed energy tech of Triax, the C.S., and most tech-heavy cultures on Earth, the tech and infrastructure necessary to look, listen, and communicate with stuff in space should be easy and comparatively fairly cheap, as should the tech involved in getting there. We did this stuff in real life in the 1950s. These are governments with miniature nuclear reactors, tactical long range missiles that can travel thousands of miles, lasers that can blow up tanks, and cheap space-ready body armor that's stronger than a tank. If you throw some magic/technowizardry in there, this gets even more nonsensical, because Lazlo or Atlantis could bypass the entire debris field and satellite network with a myriad of tricks (teleportation, invisibility, intangibility, et cetera).

MiO presents that the Orbitals gave the rest of their species on Earth the finger and blow anyone trying to leave up. It mentions no questions, no disputes, no "maybe we could..." and most frustratingly, no explanation for why this decision was made or why it was unanimous. Now, I get it, you can throw a lot of "what ifs," fill in the blank slates, and put together some justification for the wild inconsistencies presented, much like you can make Palladium's system work despite it being broken.

Here's the problem, though: I accept and work with a broken system in order to play in a setting that excites me. MiO breaks the system even more and fails to present an interesting setting. Character creation is now worse, because you need to buy a new game to use this book, and that game isn't Rifts. Ship creation rules are a hot mess, and ship-to-ship combat is worse, since ranges and speeds either reflect what people on the ground are used or reflect a vague understanding that there's no air in space and the distances involved in space travel are gigantic. If I go through all the trouble to make that work, I can take my Rifts group to places of zero gravity where:
1. If they stay a few months in zero gravity, they have a 48% chance of dying during their physical therapy after returning to Earth (9% chance of dying per day for a week).
2. A widely diverse collection of human and mutant organizations all agree that the player characters must die because they come from Earth, and Earth must be contained!
3. Significant portions of the population suffer from severe insanity in an unforgiving environment that is constantly trying to kill them.
4. Even if they survive all that, if they want to go back to Earth, there's no way to do so without getting torn up and zapped on the way down.
5. The entire time the party is there, the GM has to build almost everything from scratch, because this book doesn't include typical NPC stats, developed NPCs, examples of typical ships, maps of stations, deck plans of ships, or anything else to work with beyond a few new toys like suits and weapons.

Side note: Can you name a single prominent NPC among the Orbitals? I can't.

Now I get what you're saying in that last paragraph. RMB presented a pretty blank slate too, back in the day. Well, yes... and no. Put these two books down side by side and flip through them. RMB started strong because it had strong, well-defined themes (grim, crapsack post-apocalypse world where anything can rift in, augmentation/power at a significant price, safety vs freedom) and compelling, gritty artwork that supported those themes. MiO failed to establish any kind of central theme, and the artwork (other than the cover) is whimsically cartoonish (appropriate for AtB, not appropriate for Rifts). RMB established the Coalition, such that we knew what that nation was all about in terms of leadership, motives, values, laws, and culture in both a big picture sense and an in-person sense. I don't get that from any faction described in MiO.

Plenty of explanations work better for denying space in Rifts than what I see in MiO:
1. Aliens decided to quarantine/blockade the planet.
2. ARCHIE 3 or some other bonkers computer is responsible.
3. Dimensional Magic. Rifts Earth is surrounded by a giant rift that lets in light, but doesn't allow stuff to escape.
4. Permanent rifts in space are spewing too much debris into orbit.
5. Orbital humans have been possessed, manipulated, controlled, or deceived into containment by (insert villainous mastermind here).

Frankly, though, I'd rather just pretend MiO doesn't exist and keep it mysterious.

[ShadowLogan]

While sub-orbital is still space capable, it lacks the ability to actual get and stay in space (and return safely, at least if its purpose built for that profile). That they have the technology to get into space I do not dispute, however per WB26 the GA was only just entering the "realm of profitability" (that was near-space exploration), so I don't' think it would be cheap, even for the big players. Factor in most of the economic output and resources of the big players on Rifts Earth, and it likely is going to be costly for everyone save Atlantis.

Even MiO notes that magical means are the only way to by-pass the Containment Net cast around Earth.

I do not see why you would need to get AtB to be able to play Rifts setting with MiO. I have looked at character creation and it is workable with just the RMB (and at that time I hadn't played or pickedup any book from: TMNT, HU, or AtB). Yes the ship construction is a mess (most PB constructors are a mess though), along with how space mechanics work (essentially taking the view of atmospheric extension), but those space mechanics are used in RT 1E (and 2E), Macross 2, Heroes Unlimited, Rifts Phaseworld and are not confined to just MiO setting.

5. The entire time the party is there, the GM has to build almost everything from scratch, because this book doesn't include typical NPC stats, developed NPCs, examples of typical ships, maps of stations, deck plans of ships, or anything else to work with beyond a few new toys like suits and weapons.

Which is surprisingly par for the course IMHO w/re to Palladium RPGs that aren't campaign modules or having additional books in a particular line. Last time I checked Phaseworld ships/stations don't have deckplans, there are ships in Robotech (1E and 2E) that don't have deckplans. None of the CS Navy ships in SB4 have deckplans, nor does the Behemoth Explorer Robot in Rifts, nor do any of the naval ships in WB7. Death's Head Transports lack deckplans. So their lack of inclusion in MiO isn't anything unusual.

As for NPCs...

Side note: Can you name a single prominent NPC among the Orbitals? I can't.

Off hand no, the only NPC that might be named in the entire book is Mars Scientist who created the bugs. However I would point out that Rifts Japan isn't much different in terms of named NPCs. WB7 IIRC only has like 2-3 named NPCs. Other 2-3 at best in Atlantis (WB2, not 21) doesn't really have any NPCs that spring to mind. If I look at Robotech (1E or 2E) or Macross2 books in my possession, NPCs don't get much of a nod outside of campaign modules who aren't stated characters from those shows (and not all prominent characters get this treatment, but I never used those NPCs). So I don't really see prominent/typical NPCs as a negative just par for the course.

Plenty of explanations work better for denying space in Rifts than what I see in MiO:

Oh I agree there are better ways for denying travel between Earth and Moon/deep-space. You could even add in the idea its Nazca Line Magic related (they attack incoming, maybe there's a flaw or damage that has them also attack detected outgoing).

[Hotrod]

While sub-orbital is still space capable, it lacks the ability to actual get and stay in space (and return safely, at least if its purpose built for that profile). That they have the technology to get into space I do not dispute, however per WB26 the GA was only just entering the "realm of profitability" (that was near-space exploration), so I don't' think it would be cheap, even for the big players. Factor in most of the economic output and resources of the big players on Rifts Earth, and it likely is going to be costly for everyone save Atlantis.

Earth has been in the "realm of profitability" for putting stuff in orbit since the 1980s, but ok, it's a sci-fi setting, the rules and reality are going to be different. I don't like that as an explanation, but I guess I can stomach it more than my other issues with MiO.

Even MiO notes that magical means are the only way to by-pass the Containment Net cast around Earth.

Cool. Then what happens? See, this should be more thought out. Is this why we see a GB fighting a monster on the cover, because there are some baddies that like to teleport up? If I teleport past the containment field, what happens when I, a human, go up to an Orbital and say "Hello, I'm a human from Earth. Wanna trade? Oh, and would you please stop us from setting up a few basic communication and recon satellites?" What happens when I tell them all about what's actually going on with humanity on the surface?

I do not see why you would need to get AtB to be able to play Rifts setting with MiO. I have looked at character creation and it is workable with just the RMB (and at that time I hadn't played or pickedup any book from: TMNT, HU, or AtB). Yes the ship construction is a mess (most PB constructors are a mess though), along with how space mechanics work (essentially taking the view of atmospheric extension), but those space mechanics are used in RT 1E (and 2E), Macross 2, Heroes Unlimited, Rifts Phaseworld and are not confined to just MiO setting.

It's possible for a thing to be both broken and workable. Character creation in all Palladium games is broken, but we can work through it, and we choose to do so because those are interesting and compelling settings. MiO is not.

AtB mutants are built with a points system that isn't included in Rifts books (as far as I know). Thus, in a book called "Mutants in Orbit," my ability to actually roll up a mutant is compromised. How much? Dunno! I guess I'll have to go buy a book that I otherwise have no interest in. Maybe that was the point?

5. The entire time the party is there, the GM has to build almost everything from scratch, because this book doesn't include typical NPC stats, developed NPCs, examples of typical ships, maps of stations, deck plans of ships, or anything else to work with beyond a few new toys like suits and weapons.

Which is surprisingly par for the course IMHO w/re to Palladium RPGs that aren't campaign modules or having additional books in a particular line. Last time I checked Phaseworld ships/stations don't have deckplans, there are ships in Robotech (1E and 2E) that don't have deckplans. None of the CS Navy ships in SB4 have deckplans, nor does the Behemoth Explorer Robot in Rifts, nor do any of the naval ships in WB7. Death's Head Transports lack deckplans. So their lack of inclusion in MiO isn't anything unusual.

Most of those books include at least some of the content I mentioned. Japan has maps, Phase World and Robotech have lots of developed ship examples with stats, as does the CS Navy. Additionally, one should consider that MiO's actual living space for people is extremely restrictive; they can't live outdoors or casually roam the countryside, while they can do so in all of those other books. Having some basic layouts seems especially appropriate and called-for here.

All that said, I recognize that this is more of a personal beef about a trend that is particularly egregious in MiO. I regard this kind of content as important, and it's why I make NPC generators and maps.

As for NPCs...

Side note: Can you name a single prominent NPC among the Orbitals? I can't.

Off hand no, the only NPC that might be named in the entire book is Mars Scientist who created the bugs. However I would point out that Rifts Japan isn't much different in terms of named NPCs. WB7 IIRC only has like 2-3 named NPCs. Other 2-3 at best in Atlantis (WB2, not 21) doesn't really have any NPCs that spring to mind. If I look at Robotech (1E or 2E) or Macross2 books in my possession, NPCs don't get much of a nod outside of campaign modules who aren't stated characters from those shows (and not all prominent characters get this treatment, but I never used those NPCs). So I don't really see prominent/typical NPCs as a negative just par for the course.

All of those books provide well-defined settings to which people can relate, either because they love anime/Samurai/martial arts (Japan), operate in a well-defined region where GM's don't have to figure out basic setting questions for themselves (Atlantis), or are based on well-known properties (Robotech). Having actual NPCs (both typical and named) is important both for worldbuilding and managing adventures, but I as a GM can make do with well-defined archtypes. Unfortunately, MiO fails to deliver those archtypes. Mutants are hugely variable, classes aren't well-defined, and there's no convenient reference for the reader/GM to look to in determining how this orbital setting actually lives and works.

Plenty of explanations work better for denying space in Rifts than what I see in MiO:

Oh I agree there are better ways for denying travel between Earth and Moon/deep-space. You could even add in the idea its Nazca Line Magic related (they attack incoming, maybe there's a flaw or damage that has them also attack detected outgoing).

That would be beautifully tragic. The Nazca trash our access to orbit in an effort to defend us.

[Khanibal]

Rifts stopped being local when the Shifter class was added. It's a poop-ton easier to downgrade Phase World or convert AU & AU:GG than convert from another system. MiO reads like a 1/2 @$$ed AtB supplement with some Rifts stuff tossed in. Take the sociopolitical stuff and work from there.

[ShadowLogan]

Cool. Then what happens? See, this should be more thought out. Is this why we see a GB fighting a monster on the cover, because there are some baddies that like to teleport up? If I teleport past the containment field, what happens when I, a human, go up to an Orbital and say "Hello, I'm a human from Earth. Wanna trade? Oh, and would you please stop us from setting up a few basic communication and recon satellites?" What happens when I tell them all about what's actually going on with humanity on the surface?

The Monster on the cover I see more as an arrival via Rift appearing in space, which we know happens.

As for arrivals from Earth, I think it depends more on where you go (Outcast, one of the "independents", or the Big 4), but I suspect they won't be to happy (at the govt. level, lower levels might respond differently). Actually pg6 is clear "Terrestrial characters are likely to be seen as a threat and may be attacked or imprisoned. There is a certain paranoia regarding Earth beings." That's for the AtB section, but nothing on the Rifts side changes that (Rifts is supposed to use the AtB section unless otherwise noted changes in the Rifts section).

It's possible for a thing to be both broken and workable. Character creation in all Palladium games is broken, but we can work through it, and we choose to do so because those are interesting and compelling settings. MiO is not.

AtB mutants are built with a points system that isn't included in Rifts books (as far as I know). Thus, in a book called "Mutants in Orbit," my ability to actually roll up a mutant is compromised. How much? Dunno! I guess I'll have to go buy a book that I otherwise have no interest in. Maybe that was the point?

The Mutants for MiO: Rifts are primarily (80%) Human mutants with either Psionics (main book) or Super Powers (Rifts Conversion Book 1 or Heroes Unlimited, in a pinch you might even be able to use the MiO:AtB super power table). Creating the 20% mutant animals does require other books, but you have selection (AtB, TMNT, HU) and the ability to add them to Rifts Earth proper so not a complete waste.

All of those books provide well-defined settings to which people can relate, either because they love anime/Samurai/martial arts (Japan), operate in a well-defined region where GM's don't have to figure out basic setting questions for themselves (Atlantis), or are based on well-known properties (Robotech). Having actual NPCs (both typical and named) is important both for worldbuilding and managing adventures, but I as a GM can make do with well-defined archtypes. Unfortunately, MiO fails to deliver those archtypes. Mutants are hugely variable, classes aren't well-defined, and there's no convenient reference for the reader/GM to look to in determining how this orbital setting actually lives and works.

Japan maybe (it doesn't really have any NPC stated, but it does have maps, but then no real vehicles other than PA/'Bots), but the licensed products? Not so much. RT for example really does skimp on details that get filled in by knowledge of said material from outside sources (and is far from complete in its coverage, only 8 ships get deckplans in 1E and NONE in 2E, all the ships do though in Mac2 that get stated up). When RT does get into things though it is for the campaign module books (Bk6-9 along with the unnumbered ones). I actually purchase the Macross2 books before seeing Macross2 the Anime, and found the setting prior to seeing the Anime "lacking" (even after watching said Anime, I think we've only done a few short adventures).

I think we know how the setting is supposed to live and work from reading it.

[Zer0 Kay]

Rifts Space isn't broken
What was Golden Age tech like ???
See Chaos Earth, Rifts Japan, Rifts Russia Warlords, Rifts Underseas, Rifts Lonestar, Rifts FreeQuebec, Rifts Mutants in Orbit, Rifts Sourcebook One, Two, Three...

Have to disagree. When you have take parts from a dozen different to fill in holes and bind it together with house rules and information from other games (such as Robotech) it is by definition broken.

Now, I excuse how broken Rifts space is by the fact that it was really just bolted on to an After the Bomb book but it is really broken to the point that, as I said earlier, a page one rewrite is in order.

I don't think he was saying that you need to take from those books. He was saying that those books show us what the GA tech was like and that MiO meet or exceedes that tech making it equal to or greater than the GA tech available on Earth.

[slade the sniper]

I just use Robotech + Three Galaxies stuff. Earth containment is a big deal because all of the off-world humans were pretty much born off-world and don't really have much connection to the place at all, and instead of going "back home" to a magic wasteland ruled by monsters and xenophobic barbarians, they would rather stay in space on their adopted homeworlds.

-STS

[Blue_Lion]

Rifts stopped being local when the Shifter class was added. It's a poop-ton easier to downgrade Phase World or convert AU & AU:GG than convert from another system. MiO reads like a 1/2 @$$ed AtB supplement with some Rifts stuff tossed in. Take the sociopolitical stuff and work from there.

Shifters where not added they always where in rifts.
But it is easier to go to another plane of existence than orbit.

[ShadowLogan]

Rifts stopped being local when the Shifter class was added. It's a poop-ton easier to downgrade Phase World or convert AU & AU:GG than convert from another system. MiO reads like a 1/2 @$$ed AtB supplement with some Rifts stuff tossed in. Take the sociopolitical stuff and work from there.

Shifters where not added they always where in rifts.
But it is easier to go to another plane of existence than orbit.

+1 to Shifters.

Easier to go to another plane than orbit? Maybe, maybe not it's actually pretty close in terms of numbers.

Methods for planes of existence in RMB (6): Astral Projection, Dimensional Portal, Dimensional Rift Home (Shifter, Dragons have similar ability but its named differently), Time Hole (technically), Rifts on Ley Lines/Nexus Points, TW Vehicle (properly designed of course)

Methods for getting into Orbit in RMB (6): Astral Projection (co-existence), Teleport: Superior (technically), Teleport: Lesser (requires high level, and some location assistance), Long Range Missile (technically they lack the speed, but can certainly reach the altitude so "sub-orbital" would probably be more accurate, though you might be able to using a staged approach for orbital speed and altitude), Rifts on Ley Lines/Nexus Points, TW Vehicle (properly designed of course)

I will note I don't think I've seen a TW Vehicle designed for dimensional travel, Phase World Dimension books do allow for TW Space Vehicles (so more likely). Some approaches also work for both, though are different applications. This list just looks at getting into orbit as opposed to viability (ex. surviving the Orbitals' response).

[taalismn]

[ Long Range Missile (technically they lack the speed, but can certainly reach the altitude so "sub-orbital" would probably be more accurate,

Long range missiles might be more like cruise missiles than ICBMs/MRBMs(I know Coalition Navy introduces proper Tomahawk missiles, but existing LRMs might be akin to the smaller follow-up JADMs).

[ShadowLogan]

[ Long Range Missile (technically they lack the speed, but can certainly reach the altitude so "sub-orbital" would probably be more accurate,

Long range missiles might be more like cruise missiles than ICBMs/MRBMs(I know Coalition Navy introduces proper Tomahawk missiles, but existing LRMs might be akin to the smaller follow-up JADMs).

True, I think LRMs are presented more as Cruise/JDAMs than Ballistic/Artillery. Though I will point out that:
-LRMs aren't used by anything in RMB proper (or even RUE for that matter)
-that may be how the majority of LRM systems work, but not necessarily all (in Rifts there are at least 4: Mercenaries Iron Bolt Missile Vehicle and the Heavy SAWS, plus Triax's XM-140 in WB5, and the Death Cyclops in WB9) going by context of the platform's role or purpose (in stat block).