Shrink Fly into enemy's mouth to attack from inside

[V-Origin]

Is it possible to shrink a hero and fly/teleport into an enemy's mouth into his body or just stay in his mouth.

Then start attacking the enemy's mouth and body from the inside?

So if let's say if a character like ant-man fly or teleport into a bio-borg enemy and then attempt to grow himself inside the bio-borg enemy, wouldn't the enemy explode?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Is it possible to shrink a hero and fly/teleport into an enemy's mouth into his body or just stay in his mouth.

Then start attacking the enemy's mouth and body from the inside?

Sure. No reason you couldn't. Though if you get to the stomach you'd start taking acid damage from digestive fluids

So if let's say if a character like ant-man fly or teleport into a bio-borg enemy and then attempt to grow himself inside the bio-borg enemy, wouldn't the enemy explode?

I'd say it'd depend on the relative durability. What happens if you were to grow back to full size while in a tiny Box?

It's possible they'd explode, or you might crush yourself to death. depends on what's tougher.

Two ordinary humans, one with the power of Shrink and nothing else, would propbablly severely injure or kill them both.

If your Invunerable, you'd probablly burst most things by default except other invunerables.

But if you fly into the mouth of someone with APS Steel, and your body is ordinary without super durability, you'd probablly crush yourself and he'd be only moderately harmed.

[taalismn]

Also, depending on the alignment of the person using this attack and who/what they use it on, there could be MAJOR PR backlash.

Use this on a monster, you'll be declared a very lucky, brave, and insane hero(it's a favorite trope, in fact, somebody getting swallowed, then fighting their way out from inside).

Use it on a guy you could just have easily decked or clocked with a chair from behind, and people will start calling you a bloodthirsty monster(last time I saw something like this was an issue of the comic The Authority, where a monster-villain snuck into the heroes' HQ by hiding inside the body of a pizza delivery person. The 'surprise introduction' was NOT pretty).

[zerombr]

i just want to go on record that I LOATHE this sort of concept about as much as 'I just turn into a whale and fall on him!"

[taalismn]

i just want to go on record that I LOATHE this sort of concept about as much as 'I just turn into a whale and fall on him!"

"Oh no. Not again."

[zerombr]

"Oh no. Not again."

and that made it actually funny, nice

[Nekira Sudacne]

i just want to go on record that I LOATHE this sort of concept about as much as 'I just turn into a whale and fall on him!"

Any particular reason, other than the obvious Ick factor?

[Slight001]

i just want to go on record that I LOATHE this sort of concept about as much as 'I just turn into a whale and fall on him!"

Any particular reason, other than the obvious Ick factor?

I can't speak for Zerombr, but for me it ranks in as an auto hit/win which I'm not a fan of.

[zerombr]

yeah, I hate the idea of auto-wins. The idea of cherry picking specific abilities to work together in ways that are generally against the rules (see using ectoplasm to put pencils in peoples heads or other power ideas that the staff has nixed), just vexes me. If nothing else the idea of a character finding ideas like that a) something they want to repeat, covered in blood and gore at the horror they've caused. b) the character just somehow ended up with these powers that just specifically allow this crazy combo thing to happen.

I know I can be a bit of a stick in the mud, but you're not really a hero if your main attack plan is 'explode the guy from within', 'drop on the guy as a whale', or otherwise attack him in ways that most people can't defend against turning him into ludicrous gibs.

Hero!

[Father Goose]

I agree with the others. Ideas like this, while technically possible, go against the spirit of the game and therefore are inappropriate. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[taalismn]

Or the GM allows it, but the resultant PR backlash gets the person who uses the tactic targeted by every hero/villain in the country, backed by the appropriate organizations. The character gets dog-piled by numbers, if not abilities the supposedly unstoppable tactic doesn't work on.

Or, worse yet, the GM allows the same tactic to be used against the person who invented it, if just to prove to the PC just how it feels to be on the receiving end.

[Father Goose]

Or the GM allows it, but the resultant PR backlash gets the person who uses the tactic targeted by every hero/villain in the country, backed by the appropriate organizations. The character gets dog-piled by numbers, if not abilities the supposedly unstoppable tactic doesn't work on.

Or, worse yet, the GM allows the same tactic to be used against the person who invented it, if just to prove to the PC just how it feels to be on the receiving end.

Indeed. This is why I said 'inappropriate' and not 'impossible'.
Yes, you can do it.
No, it is not an appropriate option for a character in this game. Heroes shouldn't even have such thoughts. Villains should know that heroes won't stand for that level of atrocity and will hunt them mercilessly.

[Nekira Sudacne]

yeah, I hate the idea of auto-wins. The idea of cherry picking specific abilities to work together in ways that are generally against the rules (see using ectoplasm to put pencils in peoples heads or other power ideas that the staff has nixed), just vexes me. If nothing else the idea of a character finding ideas like that a) something they want to repeat, covered in blood and gore at the horror they've caused. b) the character just somehow ended up with these powers that just specifically allow this crazy combo thing to happen.

I know I can be a bit of a stick in the mud, but you're not really a hero if your main attack plan is 'explode the guy from within', 'drop on the guy as a whale', or otherwise attack him in ways that most people can't defend against turning him into ludicrous gibs.

Hero!

I can understand that, but I also don't entirely agree with it. Some people do enjoy the challange of combat and turn-by-turn adaption and tactics. Others find their fun in stratagy and and character creation and winning their fights before the game even starts.

The only problem is when they get mixed into the same group. The group that enjoys the thrill of combat feel cheated by those who build Overpowered characters who never feel challanged, while the players making them feel entitled to enjoy the fruits of their cunning and see no reason to make bad choices just to drag out the fight.

I've found the happiest groups are ones where all the players fall into the same catagory. Either they are all the type who want to play Fair with reasonably balanced characters and opponents for the challange of combat, or they're all the type who want to curbstomp the enemies as efficently as possible, preferably with the villians not even getting a turn before their heads explode.

I've also found it's not even really an issue of Roleplayers vs. Powergamers. I've been in several groups of Serious Roleplayers who enjoy playing overpowerd characters so they can cut the combats short to just a turn or two and get back to Roleplaying their characters. Not everyone enjoys the combat aspect of RPG's. Sometimes the reason they want to Gib the villians is just an immature power fantasy, and sometimes Combat's just their least favorite part of the game and they want it to be over ASAP. The idea of an Auto-Win is very attractive if you just want to get back to what you were doing before the villian interupted.

So I do respect your preference for "Fair" fights in Heroes games, but I will point out that doen't mean that everyone who doesn't feel the same way is doing it wrong. I generally, for my part, perfer World-Building games. Last night the session was about the party using their superpowers to save a village from flooding. Not just saving people from drowning or clearing the floodwaters, but figuring out how to salvage crops so they don't have a famine and even trying to fix their infastructure and build a Dam so that kind of flooding doesn't happen again. You don't need a Villain or a fight to have interesting challanges for a Super-Powered party, and frankly in a space-spanning game, a villain twirling his moustash and robbing a bank is probablly the least interesting challange that i'd rather not waste my time with. Explode his head and get back to the fun part.

Really, why dont' more superhero games focus on Noncombat use of Superpowers. I'd rather build a weather control machine then yet another ray gun. Clean Energy and water will save far more lives than punching Dr. Evil in the face 30 times until his SDC is slowly depleted. I'd rather just end the fight quickly and get back to saving the world.

[Father Goose]

yeah, I hate the idea of auto-wins. The idea of cherry picking specific abilities to work together in ways that are generally against the rules (see using ectoplasm to put pencils in peoples heads or other power ideas that the staff has nixed), just vexes me. If nothing else the idea of a character finding ideas like that a) something they want to repeat, covered in blood and gore at the horror they've caused. b) the character just somehow ended up with these powers that just specifically allow this crazy combo thing to happen.

I know I can be a bit of a stick in the mud, but you're not really a hero if your main attack plan is 'explode the guy from within', 'drop on the guy as a whale', or otherwise attack him in ways that most people can't defend against turning him into ludicrous gibs.

Hero!

I can understand that, but I also don't entirely agree with it. Some people do enjoy the challange of combat and turn-by-turn adaption and tactics. Others find their fun in stratagy and and character creation and winning their fights before the game even starts.

The only problem is when they get mixed into the same group. The group that enjoys the thrill of combat feel cheated by those who build Overpowered characters who never feel challanged, while the players making them feel entitled to enjoy the fruits of their cunning and see no reason to make bad choices just to drag out the fight.

I've found the happiest groups are ones where all the players fall into the same catagory. Either they are all the type who want to play Fair with reasonably balanced characters and opponents for the challange of combat, or they're all the type who want to curbstomp the enemies as efficently as possible, preferably with the villians not even getting a turn before their heads explode.

I've also found it's not even really an issue of Roleplayers vs. Powergamers. I've been in several groups of Serious Roleplayers who enjoy playing overpowerd characters so they can cut the combats short to just a turn or two and get back to Roleplaying their characters. Not everyone enjoys the combat aspect of RPG's. Sometimes the reason they want to Gib the villians is just an immature power fantasy, and sometimes Combat's just their least favorite part of the game and they want it to be over ASAP. The idea of an Auto-Win is very attractive if you just want to get back to what you were doing before the villian interupted.

So I do respect your preference for "Fair" fights in Heroes games, but I will point out that doen't mean that everyone who doesn't feel the same way is doing it wrong. I generally, for my part, perfer World-Building games. Last night the session was about the party using their superpowers to save a village from flooding. Not just saving people from drowning or clearing the floodwaters, but figuring out how to salvage crops so they don't have a famine and even trying to fix their infastructure and build a Dam so that kind of flooding doesn't happen again. You don't need a Villain or a fight to have interesting challanges for a Super-Powered party, and frankly in a space-spanning game, a villain twirling his moustash and robbing a bank is probablly the least interesting challange that i'd rather not waste my time with. Explode his head and get back to the fun part.

Really, why dont' more superhero games focus on Noncombat use of Superpowers. I'd rather build a weather control machine then yet another ray gun. Clean Energy and water will save far more lives than punching Dr. Evil in the face 30 times until his SDC is slowly depleted. I'd rather just end the fight quickly and get back to saving the world.

You make some excellent points. While I still find murder to be inappropriate for heroes, I do agree with the rest of your post. I too would rather see some variety to the challenges presented in a game rather than yet another villain of the week. Villain of the week games can be a lot of fun, but when that is all you play it gets old.
I like what you're doing in your game. Sounds like a lot of fun!

[zerombr]

I'm all for different challenges too. I just like cinematic combat, and if that turns out to be a predictable 'plan A' where someone exploits the rules to instakill somebody repeatedly, and does that every single combat, all the while giggling (and yes I have had this player), then I have absolutely no interest in running for someone who is so gleeful to abuse rules.

Then again I did say I'm something of a stick in the mud

[taalismn]

On the other hand, in RL, unless you've got Rules of Engagement you need to follow, the eyes of the media on you, or ethical scruples, people tend to use the expedient means of getting the job done.

Exploding people from inside falls on the other side of the dividing line(though it depends on your opponent; killing an enemy conscript who can plink at you? Not good. Demon Lord with the potential to kill thousands? Okay.)

It's like the oft-made criticism of Voltron:
"Why don't we START with 'FORM BLAZING SWORD!' if that's our guaranteed kill-it attack?!"

[The Beast]

On the other hand, in RL, unless you've got Rules of Engagement you need to follow, the eyes of the media on you, or ethical scruples, people tend to use the expedient means of getting the job done.

Exploding people from inside falls on the other side of the dividing line(though it depends on your opponent; killing an enemy conscript who can plink at you? Not good. Demon Lord with the potential to kill thousands? Okay.)

It's like the oft-made criticism of Voltron:
"Why don't we START with 'FORM BLAZING SWORD!' if that's our guaranteed kill-it attack?!"

Those people never watched Bleach or Naruto then. You never lead off with your best attack because if your opponent survives it you got nothing left.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I'm all for different challenges too. I just like cinematic combat, and if that turns out to be a predictable 'plan A' where someone exploits the rules to instakill somebody repeatedly, and does that every single combat, all the while giggling (and yes I have had this player), then I have absolutely no interest in running for someone who is so gleeful to abuse rules.

Then again I did say I'm something of a stick in the mud

As someone who has had a player have a supposed hero go on a killing spree, I can relate. I do all that I can to discourage instakill tactics.

[Father Goose]

I'm all for different challenges too. I just like cinematic combat, and if that turns out to be a predictable 'plan A' where someone exploits the rules to instakill somebody repeatedly, and does that every single combat, all the while giggling (and yes I have had this player), then I have absolutely no interest in running for someone who is so gleeful to abuse rules.

Then again I did say I'm something of a stick in the mud

As someone who has had a player have a supposed hero go on a killing spree, I can relate. I do all that I can to discourage instakill tactics.

Same here. Bad players do have a tendency to inform decisions more than good players do.

[csyphrett]

i love the splashdown as a whale. The villain caught him and that's when Chris knew he was in trouble
CES

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'm all for different challenges too. I just like cinematic combat, and if that turns out to be a predictable 'plan A' where someone exploits the rules to instakill somebody repeatedly, and does that every single combat, all the while giggling (and yes I have had this player), then I have absolutely no interest in running for someone who is so gleeful to abuse rules.

Then again I did say I'm something of a stick in the mud

Eh, I would say don't let bad players define the technqiue. Your player there is clearly juvienile, but simply having a power combo doesn't mean it must be applied in every situation when other solutions would resolve it with equal efficacy.

But I think the core difference is you really like Cinematic Combat, and I certainly do enjoy it too, but I don't like it so much I want every fight to go that way. A big Cinematic battle should be the capstone of an arc, with a Villian who for whatever reason is not vunerable to or has ways around the players big combos, forcing them to adapt and improvise.

If Every fight is a cinematic showdown, I just suffer overload and get bored. Not every fight should be an epic showdown, and in fact i'd argue very few fights should be.

[dreicunan]

I'm not a big fan of the "grow from within" tactic, but a character with Shrink (constant mass) and a flight power could cause massive damage by flying in and staying shrunk, especially if the can reduce themselves to the size of a period.