The Near-Invincibility of Kobold Communities

[Hotrod]

Outside of the Wolfen Empire, which conquered the Algor Mountain Collective, it seems that every time I read about Kobold underground communities, it seems that they have a few things in common: They're heavily populated, fairly isolationist, and if anyone even tries to mess with them, they will lose badly. From a narrative perspective, it seems as if Kobolds have some sort of favored status. Does anyone else get this impression?

Has anyone tried to flesh out these Kobold communities a bit more? As written, they seem almost like a dead end for adventures (in some cases, a literal dead end).

[Library Ogre]

Not much, though I had a few living under various Western Empire cities in symbiosis with the noble clans above. The kobolds had military protection, a ready market for their goods, and access to human agriculture markets, while the humans got ready supply of kobold weapons and some fierce tunnel fighters to protect from below. With kobold's comparitive longevity, they might serve as court wizards to several generations.

[RockJock]

Everybody wants Kobold neighbors. Think about it. Most of the beautiful people appreciate the K's trade goods of weapons and armor. At the same time the monster races need Kobolds as armorers. They get along with pretty much everyone.

[kiralon]

and the kobolds don't seem to have the need to compensate for their small size by making their halls big enough to fly a star destroyer through, unlike the dwarves, so when the bigger races come to fight they are on their knees or crawling and the kobolds are in tunnels sized for them.

I have the kobolds supplying the eastern western empire, and dwarves supplying the western western empire, so if you fall in with the rebels you get kobold goods (kobolds get on ok with faeries), and if you fall in with the imperium you get fed to demons, er I mean supplied with dwarf made goods.
I also have a clan of kobolds and the land of the damned mountain ranges supplying the horsemen of ophids.
I don't have them supplying the giant races as much due to the extra effort.

But mostly the kobolds my players interface with come from the old kingdom (that's where the best kobold smiths are).

Note this is mostly home made stuff

[Library Ogre]

Everybody wants Kobold neighbors. Think about it. Most of the beautiful people appreciate the K's trade goods of weapons and armor. At the same time the monster races need Kobolds as armorers. They get along with pretty much everyone.

I don't know if I'd go THAT far. They do tend towards anarchist and evil, which means they are not necessarily the best of allies.

[Hotrod]

I guess I find the way these communities are characterized to be frustrating. They come across as a narrative dead end. They're not described, and most of the canon references to them that I see establish them as places where outsiders aren't welcome and have no prayer of doing much of anything interesting. If a surface power takes them on, the surface power loses (except the Wolfen, the only race that seems to be even more favored in the narrative).

From a GMing perspective, there's not much to go on for taking a party into one or even interacting with one on the surface. I don't have a good grasp of what Kobold society is like or what makes them build these huge communities despite being dominated by alignments that intrinsically don't play well with others. From a player perspective, doing much of anything beyond avoiding them seems like suicide. From a mapper/world-building perspective, they seem like they're quite populous and powerful, but there's little specific information on where they are, how they build/support their underground communities, or how they sustain their huge populations underground.

[Lukterran]

I wouldn't call them invincible. Seems like a good number of earth spells could really do some damage to subterranean people. Earthquake, River of Lava and Chasm all could wreck some havoc.

As far as food supplies there aren't many options but some of those are:
- Surface level farms (they could potently plant and reap there harvest from below instead of from above), trading and importing food or hunting and scavenging excursions
- Light shaft oasis: Mini farms where some plant life can grow and even raise some animals
- Thermosynthesis (most likely option) like down in deep oceans where life is feeding off of thermal vents and that creates the energy to supply an complete ecosystem.
- Bugs, bats and some fish coming into the cave systems from outside world.
- Mushroom gardens and decay material being used to feed plant life.
- Some yet undefined creatures and ecosystem like a fungi that grows and then another creature that eats the fungi and so on etc...
- Magical means kobold version of create bread and milk
- Unlikely but magic portals is an option

I think there was a lot of information introduced about subterranean world in one of the Rifters. #14 I think.

[Warshield73]

I guess I find the way these communities are characterized to be frustrating. They come across as a narrative dead end. They're not described, and most of the canon references to them that I see establish them as places where outsiders aren't welcome and have no prayer of doing much of anything interesting. If a surface power takes them on, the surface power loses (except the Wolfen, the only race that seems to be even more favored in the narrative).

From a GMing perspective, there's not much to go on for taking a party into one or even interacting with one on the surface. I don't have a good grasp of what Kobold society is like or what makes them build these huge communities despite being dominated by alignments that intrinsically don't play well with others. From a player perspective, doing much of anything beyond avoiding them seems like suicide. From a mapper/world-building perspective, they seem like they're quite populous and powerful, but there's little specific information on where they are, how they build/support their underground communities, or how they sustain their huge populations underground.

From a GMing perspective wouldn't it be like any other community of its type. I mean one thing I thought of instantly is that the PCs need an item located in a Kobold community. First they would need to find the community, then a secret way in, then sneak in, get the item, and then oh they are discovered and need a new way out.

I don't play a lot of fantasy but a Kobold community should be able to serve the same purpose as any fortress or castle.