Rifter 21 Familiars PPE Reserve

[Godslayer]

Anyone know exactly how this works?

The text says:

The familiar carries a reserve of P.P.E. equal to one-third the amount put into its creation. Note that this does not grant the ability to cast spells, unless the Spell Casting ability is taken.
Cost: 20 P.P.E.

Is this permanent or temporary PPE?

[Kathias]

I was just reading Rifter 21. I interpreted it as you add 1/3 of the ppe that’s put into your new familiar powers to its base ppe. So yes it would be permanent because your permanently expending ppe to enhance your familiar.

[drewkitty ~..~]

basic concept: It creates a Base PPE into the familliar.

the way it works: The mage burns off 3x PPE from her or his perm/base PPE to make the familliar have x perm/base PPE.

There is no text saying wheater or not this ADDs to the animal's natrual PPE base or if the only PPE the familliar will have is what the mage creates in it.

[Axelmania]

I like the idea of adding it to normal amounts.

[zerombr]

That better be a damn important part of the character to burn off ppe in a 3 to 1 ratio.

[dreicunan]

basic concept: It creates a Base PPE into the familliar.

the way it works: The mage burns off 3x PPE from her or his perm/base PPE to make the familliar have x perm/base PPE.

There is no text saying wheater or not this ADDs to the animal's natrual PPE base or if the only PPE the familiar will have is what the mage creates in it.

The text disagrees with you. The New Familiar powers are all permanent investments of PPE into the creature, and it is based on Nightbane rules for familiars from Through the Glass Darkly, where making a familiar involves finding a creature and permanently modifying it through a series of lengthy rituals. It is a one-shot thing, however. Once finished, you can't change anything, and all the modifications involve permanently burning off PPE (just like Nightbane gaining Talents). The mage is not burning off 3x PPE to get X reserve in the familiar. He is spending 20 PPE to grant the familiar a reserve of PPE equal to one third the total amount of PPE invested in the familiar during the creation process (including the 20 PPE used to grant the reserve). So, if you spent a total of 90 PPE from your permanent base to modify your familiar (including the 20 PPE for PPE Reserve), then the familiar would have a reserve of 30 PPE.

Since it creates a reserve in the creature, it would add to a creature that already had a PPE base.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I stand corrected, that is how the wording makes it work. That the total amount of PPE burned off to enhance the familiar is thirded to get the familiar's base PPE total.
Thou, I would exclude the 20 PPE used to get this ability from the total being thirded.

Is the base PPE from a wizard (or other magic class) added to the base PPE of the race? *rhetorical* There is no specific text saying this. Since this is so, the base PPE listed in the magic class is the ONLY PPE in the base PPE, unless there are other factors that specifically add PPE to the base PPE.

Any statement that says that the class base PPE is added to the racal PPE as a general rule for every magic char is only a house rule, and should be treated as such. (Proper treatment spelled out expicitly: only included to the GM's own house rules if the GM wants them in his/her own house rules.)

[zerombr]

I just can't fathom how anyone would burn 90 ppe permanently to gain 30. It doesn't even make sense thematically as well as in a family view

[dreicunan]

I stand corrected, that is how the wording makes it work. That the total amount of PPE burned off to enhance the familiar is thirded to get the familiar's base PPE total.
Thou, I would exclude the 20 PPE used to get this ability from the total being thirded.

No, it doesn't grant the familiar a base PPE, it grants thr familiar a "P.P.E. Reserve." We know this because the familiar examples that follow on pages 25-38 all have base PPE included without the PPE reserve power being listed as part of their creation. In the case of the Action Golem, we have different base PPE potentials depending on the size of the toy used to make it while still having the same base cost for an action golem.

Excluding the 20 PPE spent on the power is definitely not the RAW, because the 20 PPE is part of the amount put into its creation.

Is the base PPE from a wizard (or other magic class) added to the base PPE of the race? *rhetorical* There is no specific text saying this. Since this is so, the base PPE listed in the magic class is the ONLY PPE in the base PPE, unless there are other factors that specifically add PPE to the base PPE.

Any statement that says that the class base PPE is added to the racal PPE as a general rule for every magic char is only a house rule, and should be treated as such. (Proper treatment spelled out expicitly: only included to the GM's own house rules if the GM wants them in his/her own house rules.)

Non sequitur. We aren't talking about an OCC (and given your normal obsession with those terms, I'm surprised that you'd even make this argument). We are talking about a power that says that it grants a PPE reserve, not a base PPE. The most logical reading is that it does what it says that it does, not that it also eliminates the creatures base PPE!

I just can't fathom how anyone would burn 90 ppe permanently to gain 30. It doesn't even make sense thematically as well as in a family view

Keep in mind that it would be burning 20 more PPE to give the familiar 30 extra PPE after already burning 70 PPE on making the familiar. That said, I don't find the use of these familiars to be an overly good return on PPE investment, either, though others may disagree.

[drewkitty ~..~]

"....grant the familiar a base PPE, it grants thr familiar a "P.P.E. Reserve."
Same thing, differnt wording.

Which is why I started with "Thou, I would ..." to indicate that it was my opinion. Opposed to stating an opinion w/o any indication, thus saying that the opinion was canon.

Non sequitur: to stave off an arguments by stating that if it isn't what the books exactly say, it is a house rule.