Cyber-Knights and their Native Languages

[plotulus]

Does a Cyber-Knight have both American and Dragonese/Elven as Native Languages or am I reading this wrong?

[Mack]

Well, it doesn't actually identify either of them as the CK's native language.

My opinion: pick one to be the native, and the other he's just really, really good at.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Agrees with Mack.

Thou the native lang might end up one of the two of choice if the char is not native to NA.

[plotulus]

Yeah if my next character is a Cyber-Knight from Palladium Fantasy he would have Dragonese/Elven as his native. Thanks for the advice everyone

[Axelmania]

As this got me looking around for oddities in starting language skills, interesting shift from RMB 98 (right column, bottom)

Literacy: Dragonese
Literacy of Choice (probably American)
Basic Math

to RUE 158 (right column, just before weapons and equipment)

Language: Dragonese
Literacy: Dragonese
Basic Math
Fundamentals of Magic

Notably it appears that originally Hatchlings could read/write 2 languages but not speak ANY of them unless that was chosen as one of their 6 skills, but in RUE they swap their other-language literacy for being able to speak dragonese and know magical lore.

That seems like a pretty good deal (2 for 1) but in RUE dragons only get 2 optional selections now to start instead of 6!

The only compensation seems to be that now you can kidnap Rogue Scholars (RUE93) and force them (under threat of digestion) to teach every single secondary skill they know to you, before eating them anyway.

Of course back in RMB, it appears they didn't used to list native languages. RMB 31's description "speak in a language other than their own native tongue" seems to support that everyone knows a native language (I don't like that, the option of a Vagabond/Scout who doesn't speak ANY language sounds cool) though not at what %...

I think I recall only HU2 having basic rules for skills EVERYONE knows, which for some reason includes driving cars.

Getting back to the Cyber-Knight, pg 63 of RMB stands out as listing American/Dragonese+2 which might even exist IN ADDITION to the usual "free native language" that RMB seems to imply exists for all of the classes.

The primary question being: since Dragonese is obviously their native language, does the literacy that dragons get in a 2nd language imply they speak the language too?

Pg 64 also had '2 of choice' for the glitter boy... so they started with 3 total in 1990? Pg 70 a Juicer began knowing 4 languages?

Perhaps the native language of all Glitter Boys was French, and the native language of all Juicers was Portugese?

One semantic difference notable on RMBp72 in the body fixer and pg 76 for the Cyber-Doc. Their Language is "1 additional" whereas we don't see the word "additional" for the GB/Juicer "of choice" notations, possibly implying their native language was meant to be included in there? The Scholar was the same: "Two additional languages of choice" rather than "Two of choice" like the Glitterboy on page 65.

81's Wilderness Scout had "choice of three" resembling the "three of choice" a Juicer has on pg 70, with no "additional" like the the fixer/doc/scholar implying a native language...

Then 82's "Vagabond Non-Skilled" (we tend to abbreviate that often) who is "American and one language of choice". Does that imply American was the native language, or in addition to it, meaning the BONDS knew 3 to start?

LLWs (85) and Shifters (89) and TWs (90) had "two additional", Mystics (86) had 1D6 additional, so they're like the fixer/doc/scholar rather than the CK/GB/Juicer...

Bursters (104) and Coalition Stalkers (107) both had "American and one other" like the vagabond (unclear if 2 total or 3 total) while Wild Stalkers (106) and Mind Melters (112) had "American and two other" (unclear if 3 total or 4 total)

Dog Pack (110) infamously had "American and Dragonese" hinting at a subtle relationship existing between the Dragons of North America and it's Psi-Hounds which remains a mystery to this day. Is that two total, or do they speak the human/dragon tongues in addition to their native barking dog language whose name we don't know?

RUE curiosity: pg 94 the Rogue Scholar "Speaks Native Language" and pg 96 the Rogue Scientist "Language: Native Tongue". Why are scientists so much more Vagabondy?

[drewkitty ~..~]

RUE 2nd HC pg 98.....???what??? typo??
pg 157 Dragon instincts
speak & read/write dragonese 98 each, basic msth

Note that the Rifts Main Book, the previus corebook for rifts, PN copy and paisted many things from the HU1 MB. Thus, there are typos the imply things that were never stated outright. Like how the h2h tables said '+2 attacks per melee' even though there was no basic 'two APM for living' that was in the HU1 MB and was not brought over for the rifts MB.

What RUE, in part was to do, was to colect all the 'fixes' that were spead out across dozens of books. So if you are trying to say that rifts chars automaticly get a native language, then point out where RUE directly says it. Instead of implying it by pointing out inconsistancies and weeirdnesses.

If you are not saying RUE chars automaticly get Lang/lit nat lang...then what are you saying? Is it just that RUE has it's own faults?

[Axelmania]

Er, if that reply is to me, it was RMB (1990) p 98 compared to RUE (2005) p 157 for dragons, and pointing out some of the changes about languages.

I'm thinking the implication (by how "Language" skill was defined, though you're right it seems we neglected the auto-for-every1 skillz HU had) from RMB of knowing your native language was done away with by RUE as we can see native languages included in the classes now.

In fact one of the major changes I should've highlighted (staring confused at the Technical section for a tad) is how Language/Literacy were reclassified from Technical>Communication and can be found on RUE 304 now.

It's also been divided into 2 skills: "Language: Native Tongue" and "Language: Other" which notably have higher base skills than RMB did, but lower % per level-up (not the 5/level that literacy still enjoys). The "other than his own" text is retained under L:O. So I guess the "L:NT" skills is the new addition here and which most OCCs include.

Where there is a language skill unmodified is probably an option to select either, but I'm guessing only 1 language EVER can enjoy 88/1 instead of 50/3.

RUE 305 also has a new rule I never noticed about how if you fail to read something with Literacy, you basically need to level-up before trying to read it again... OUCH.

[dreicunan]

Where there is a language skill unmodified is probably an option to select either, but I'm guessing only 1 language EVER can enjoy 88/1 instead of 50/3.

One of the things that I wish Palladium would have done is expand the idea of "background skills" that we see with some classes like knights, paladins, and Samurai to everyone, because whether or not someone knows more than one language as a native speaker would have to do with how you were raised. It is most definitely possible for a human to know two languages as their native tongue, and it seems that 3 is the practical limit (I researched this more intently in the past as my wife and I are raising bilingual children; a quick search didn't turn up anything to contradict that). This doesn't mean that one can't become a polyglot over time and speak multiple other languages at near native fluency - so near that for all practical purposes one basically is a native speaker - just that to truly have them be at native speaker level you really do need to start from a very young age AND you need to keep up with all of them throughout. There are certain errors that even a very high level non-native speaker will be more likely to make than a native speaker (e.g. minor agreement issues such as saying la mapa in Spanish instead of el mapa). Plenty of people get raised with more than one language but only end up with native level fluency in one of them (or, sadly, sometimes in none of them). Ideally, true native level fluency in more than one language would be rolled up as part of a background (as a rarer option than having an extra non-native language due to exposure to it).

Now how those percentages should be used for language skills is a different discussion entirely!