We Gots The Skills

[Stone Gargoyle]

Actually, it's Rifter #32, not 22.

You should also be able to find it in PDF format through locations like DriveThruRPG.

Thanks T. I might buy the PDF and the paper copy depending on my funds.

[syntheticlife4m]

Hey I was checking out the Netbook of Skills and saw Nanotechnology and Nanomanufacturing under the Mechanical skills. Are those official skills in one of the books or are they just fan-creations?

[taalismn]

Hey I was checking out the Netbook of Skills and saw Nanotechnology and Nanomanufacturing under the Mechanical skills. Are those official skills in one of the books or are they just fan-creations?

I'd have said Splicers, but only the Technojackers would have this skill and for them it's instinctual....but a check of the book shows only 'Machine Technology', so it's fan-creation.

[abe]

Throwing your voice (I cannot spell the actual name if my life depends on it)
It’s pretty much what it said it is.
Chance of success:25+pp+4% per level.

[taalismn]

Throwing your voice (I cannot spell the actual name if my life depends on it)
It’s pretty much what it said it is.
Chance of success:25+pp+4% per level.

Ventriloquism.
It's been done.
First appeared, to the best of my knowledge, in the Robotech adventure module 'Ghost Ship'.. then System Failure and the Rifts Game Master Guide.
Skill proficiency is 16%+4% per level of experience.
Physical Prowess has NOTHING to do with it(Ventriloquists are not known as Olympic-grade gymnasts or physical acrobats).

And if you do try to describe something that you know has a better name for it, do some online research to find the proper spelling(it helps with working in the rest of it). You never know; your life MAY depend on it.

[abe]

Recycling lore:you can recognize recyclable metals, glass & plastics so that you can get maximum profit from recycling centers as well as know which centers pay the most money for the respective materials.
Chance of success is 32 +iq% + 7% per level

[taalismn]

Recycling lore:you can recognize recyclable metals, glass & plastics so that you can get maximum profit from recycling centers as well as know which centers pay the most money for the respective materials.
Chance of success is 32 +iq% + 7% per level

Recycling appears as a Technical skill in Rifts Ultimate Edition, Rifts Game Master Guide, Beyond the Supernatural, Mutants in Orbit, and Chaos Earth. 30%+5% per level of experience.
I wouldn't consider it to have a 'lore 'aspect for finding centers that offer the most because a little bit of research(yellow pages, internet, local chamber of commerce) will let you find the going rates for metals, local recycling centers, or what scrapyards are offering for materials. Blackmarket/borderline legal/ knowingly Illegal(like stolen copper wiring or swiped silverware) reclamation, I'd consider to be 'Streetwise'.

Managing a successful recycling/salvage business would be a package deal of Recycle, Salvage, Research, Bartering, Business & Finance skills. The average street person could get by with Recycling and Streetwise.

[Sambot]

Apologies if this has been mentioned. I tried search but couldn't find it.

Here's some Weapons Proficiencies. Other than a +1 to their use I'm not sure if they should have any other bonuses or penalties.

W.P. Lever Action Rifle
W.P. Revolver Rifle.
W.P. Volley Gun Pistol (Black Powder)
W.P. Volley Gun Rifle (Black Powder)
W.P. Volley Gun Heavy (Mitrailleuse)
(Black Poweder version Ribauldequin seperate skill)
W.P. Crank Guns (Gatling style guns/Agar gun) (Black Powder version separate skill/Puckle Gun)
W.P. Organ Gun (Nordenfelt gun)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt%27s_ ... ving_rifle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever_action
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribauldequin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volley_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardner_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatling_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

[Stone Gargoyle]

Apologies if this has been mentioned. I tried search but couldn't find it.

Here's some Weapons Proficiencies. Other than a +1 to their use I'm not sure if they should have any other bonuses or penalties.

W.P. Lever Action Rifle
W.P. Revolver Rifle.
W.P. Volley Gun Pistol (Black Powder)
W.P. Volley Gun Rifle (Black Powder)
W.P. Volley Gun Heavy (Mitrailleuse)
(Black Poweder version Ribauldequin seperate skill)
W.P. Crank Guns (Gatling style guns/Agar gun) (Black Powder version separate skill/Puckle Gun)
W.P. Organ Gun (Nordenfelt gun)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt%27s_ ... ving_rifle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever_action
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribauldequin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volley_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardner_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatling_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

A gun is a gun. I've always felt that the need to itemize them by type is unnecessary.

[taalismn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

A gun is a gun. I've always felt that the need to itemize them by type is unnecessary.[/quote]

I agree...and many of them fall under the existing Black Powder W.P.
Larger weapons like the crank guns, I'd rule fall under W.P. Heavy.
In fact the best way to go about this, if you were creating, say, a U.S. Civil War character trained to use Mister Gatling's creation, would be to allow it as W.P. Heavy Weapons with the stipulation that it applies only to period weapons(so the character, if somehow transported in time, couldn't service/operate a 1917 Browning .50 caliber machine gun with the same proficiency unless they retrained on the more modern weapon).

Servicing all of them, I'd rule, could be covered by the Gunsmith or Armorer skill.

Still, I'll give Sambot credit for your historical research

[Sambot]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

A gun is a gun. I've always felt that the need to itemize them by type is unnecessary.

I agree...and many of them fall under the existing Black Powder W.P.
Larger weapons like the crank guns, I'd rule fall under W.P. Heavy.
In fact the best way to go about this, if you were creating, say, a U.S. Civil War character trained to use Mister Gatling's creation, would be to allow it as W.P. Heavy Weapons with the stipulation that it applies only to period weapons(so the character, if somehow transported in time, couldn't service/operate a 1917 Browning .50 caliber machine gun with the same proficiency unless they retrained on the more modern weapon).

Servicing all of them, I'd rule, could be covered by the Gunsmith or Armorer skill.

Still, I'll give Sambot credit for your historical research[/quote]

Thanks.

I know its kind of easy to pick up a gun and shoot it but how they operate and reload can vary wildly. And since we have different skills for different types of rifles and pistols I figured, "Why not?" for some. For others I had considered using W.P. Heavy Weapons but its kind of generic for me since it includes everything. Maybe W.P. Machine Gun and then treat it like you said by making it era specific. Kind of like other skills such as photography and computers.

I had forgotten this video so I guess the Mitrailleuse would work under Machine Gun along with Gatling style guns, Argar Gun and Nordenfelt gun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wApeDr6-Bdo

I would think that the Puckle Gun and Ribauldequin would need a knowledge of Black Powder and machine guns though as the others aren't just black powder. Although do to their age one couldn't necessarily operate the other without some training.

I'm still wondering about a skill for Volley Guns as they're designed to fire multiple rounds at once, and usually so the rounds spread out. Pepper-boxes though rotate their barrels but still fire straight ahead. I kind of wonder if they should have a skill too since they're more complicated. That or it takes longer for them to become completely proficient with that type.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volley_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper-box

I'd also submit W.P. Pistol-Sword. or Axe. Think Captain Harlock.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword

[Stone Gargoyle]

A gun is a gun. I've always felt that the need to itemize them by type is unnecessary.

I agree...and many of them fall under the existing Black Powder W.P.
Larger weapons like the crank guns, I'd rule fall under W.P. Heavy.
In fact the best way to go about this, if you were creating, say, a U.S. Civil War character trained to use Mister Gatling's creation, would be to allow it as W.P. Heavy Weapons with the stipulation that it applies only to period weapons(so the character, if somehow transported in time, couldn't service/operate a 1917 Browning .50 caliber machine gun with the same proficiency unless they retrained on the more modern weapon).

Servicing all of them, I'd rule, could be covered by the Gunsmith or Armorer skill.

Still, I'll give Sambot credit for your historical research

I did not mean to ignore the importance of research at all. Can we organize his list by the WP types you mention? That would be helpful.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I'd also submit W.P. Pistol-Sword. or Axe. Think Captain Harlock.

Gunblades use whichever WP is applicable to the use you are putting it to, either WP Sword or WP pistol, the same way you handle rifles with bayonets.

[taalismn]

[

I'm still wondering about a skill for Volley Guns as they're designed to fire multiple rounds at once, and usually so the rounds spread out. Pepper-boxes though rotate their barrels but still fire straight ahead. I kind of wonder if they should have a skill too since they're more complicated. That or it takes longer for them to become completely proficient with that type.

I don't think there's any skill involved with the volley guns, except in the servicing.
The general idea is 'get as much lead flying towards the mass of enemy troops as possible and hope more rounds hit than miss'. If it were a skill, it would start out as the equivalent of shooting a burst, or even 'spray and pray' shooting wild, with the further penalty that you can't 'walk' the stream of fire up into or over your target.
Remember, these weapons were designed to counter the then-standard tactic of compensating for single-shot infantry weapons by massing as many troops as you could in a single group and volley-blasting away at your opponent.

If anything, effective use of volley-guns would come under Tactics.

[Sambot]

I did not mean to ignore the importance of research at all. Can we organize his list by the WP types you mention? That would be helpful.

That's okay. I tried to organize the list a bit better.

W.P. Lever Action Rifle (uses a lever to reload. Winchester)
W.P. Revolver Rifle. (Rifle version of Pistol Skill Colt Model 1855 Revolving Carbine)
W.P. Pepper-box Pistol (Similar to Revolver only the barrels move)
W.P. Pepper-box Rifle (Rifle version of above)
W.P. Volley Gun (heavy Black powder weapon on a cart with multiple barrels. Ribauldequin)
W.P. Crank Guns (heavy weapon usually mounted on a cart or tripod. Uses a hand crank or lever to fire the weapon. Gatling style guns/Agar gun/Mitrailleuse, Nordenfelt gun. the weapons can be single or multiple barrel.) W.P. Machine Gun or W.P. Heavy could be used instead to use these weapons if in that time period or taken again for these older weapon.
W.P. Black Powder Crank Guns (older version of above uses black powder/Puckle Gun)

I dropped most of the volley guns but I think there should be a note about weapons firing multiple barrels at the same time, including double barrel shotguns. The recoil would be a real pain.

I'm still not sure about using the Machine Gun skill for the cranked guns like the Gatling. Using it for older machine guns would seem to fit fully automatic weapons like the Maxim Gun which was in service at the same time at the Gatling Gun. It doesn't seem to fit the Crank fired weapons as they operate differently. Maybe the W.P. Heavy would be better?

W.P. Gunblades (a combination melee weapon and firearm. WP vary but this skill would allow the character to use the weapon without penalties. The weight of the blade would throw off the aim and such like hitting the trigger accidentally. I know bayonets were mentioned but W.P. Rifle doesn't mean one can use it as it turns the Rifle into a melee weapon. Being able to use a knife doesn't mean a rifle can be used either. You'd need both.

[

I'm still wondering about a skill for Volley Guns as they're designed to fire multiple rounds at once, and usually so the rounds spread out. Pepper-boxes though rotate their barrels but still fire straight ahead. I kind of wonder if they should have a skill too since they're more complicated. That or it takes longer for them to become completely proficient with that type.

I don't think there's any skill involved with the volley guns, except in the servicing.
The general idea is 'get as much lead flying towards the mass of enemy troops as possible and hope more rounds hit than miss'. If it were a skill, it would start out as the equivalent of shooting a burst, or even 'spray and pray' shooting wild, with the further penalty that you can't 'walk' the stream of fire up into or over your target.
Remember, these weapons were designed to counter the then-standard tactic of compensating for single-shot infantry weapons by massing as many troops as you could in a single group and volley-blasting away at your opponent.

If anything, effective use of volley-guns would come under Tactics.

Some fire all at once and others don't. Wiki lumps them all together. I tried to separate them out some in my list above so the Volley Guns fire all at once and the Crank Guns fire with the crank. I don't think Tactics would cover the firing and servicing of volley guns. It doesn't do that with machine guns. What it covers the best places to put and use the machine guns. It'd be the same with Volley Guns.

[taalismn]

[
Some fire all at once and others don't. Wiki lumps them all together. I tried to separate them out some in my list above so the Volley Guns fire all at once and the Crank Guns fire with the crank. I don't think Tactics would cover the firing and servicing of volley guns. It doesn't do that with machine guns. What it covers the best places to put and use the machine guns. It'd be the same with Volley Guns.

I'll maintain that the weapons you mention, as crew-served weapons, fall under Heavy Weapons, though with the lighter direct-fire carriage-born weapons of the time, some of the heavier volley guns might edge into W.P. Artillery country. The specific use of rifle-caliber rounds, however, has me favoring W.P. Heavy Weapons.
Puckle-Guns and Gatlings, admittedly, once set up, could be operated by one man(at least for one volley/melee of firing), but preparing the cassettes, plates, and cartridges required a team, and volley and 'grinder guns' had somebody ever ready to replace/feed in fresh rounds.

[Sambot]

I'll maintain that the weapons you mention, as crew-served weapons, fall under Heavy Weapons, though with the lighter direct-fire carriage-born weapons of the time, some of the heavier volley guns might edge into W.P. Artillery country. The specific use of rifle-caliber rounds, however, has me favoring W.P. Heavy Weapons.
Puckle-Guns and Gatlings, admittedly, once set up, could be operated by one man(at least for one volley/melee of firing), but preparing the cassettes, plates, and cartridges required a team, and volley and 'grinder guns' had somebody ever ready to replace/feed in fresh rounds.

I generally prefer separate skills but I would be okay with that. Maybe for modern character that skill would need to be taken twice with the second one being antique weapons? Conversely period characters could take the skill again for modern weapons?
Funnily enough Gatling Guns were sometimes replacements cannons using grapeshot. Plus they were as heavy as artillery and could be pulled by horses. As for them being artillery, the wall gun was an an in between weapon but I think its covered by the BP Rifle skill. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_gun The Hotchkiss gun though I'm not sure of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_gun
Most of these could be operated by one person but it'd increase the reload time a lot. Most I think would be a minimum or 2 crew one firing and the other reloading and they'd have a lot of pre-readied "clips" ready to use.

[taalismn]

Thing was, some of the volley guns needed special cartridges that weren't always readily available through military supply chains.

Oddly enough, one of the Puckle Guns fired square bullets for use against Muslims(I'm assuming they had the Bedouin in mind)... talk about discrimination in warfare....One can imagine some argument over the wrong groups being shot with the wrong ammo.

But aside from TransDimensional Turtles and some of the Wormwood related material, there's hardly any coverage of that period of warfare in Palladium games. We go from W.P. Siege Engines to W.P. Artillery, and W.P. Ancient Weapons to W.P. Modern Weapons(Heavy) without any coverage of the experimental phases in between as warfare shifted to the Modern. You wanna play in the Napoleonic or Civil War eras, you have to make do with general coverage by some of the Modern W.P.s or just Black Powder weapons(handguns/rifles) in general.

[Sambot]

Thing was, some of the volley guns needed special cartridges that weren't always readily available through military supply chains.

They would have had a few ready to go though along with supplies to reload them. That process would take a bit and I imagine that's what the rest of the troops assigned to the gun, if any, would be doing.

Oddly enough, one of the Puckle Guns fired square bullets for use against Muslims(I'm assuming they had the Bedouin in mind)... talk about discrimination in warfare....One can imagine some argument over the wrong groups being shot with the wrong ammo.

Yeah I saw that. It is rather discriminatory. Not that I think they'd care. It'd be like, "Oopsie! Oh well. He was a heathen anyway or he wouldn't be fighting us."

But aside from TransDimensional Turtles and some of the Wormwood related material, there's hardly any coverage of that period of warfare in Palladium games. We go from W.P. Siege Engines to W.P. Artillery, and W.P. Ancient Weapons to W.P. Modern Weapons(Heavy) without any coverage of the experimental phases in between as warfare shifted to the Modern. You wanna play in the Napoleonic or Civil War eras, you have to make do with general coverage by some of the Modern W.P.s or just Black Powder weapons(handguns/rifles) in general.

Yeah. There's some material scattered about. I know there's one in the Rifter. Most others end up being TK weapons. It's a shame though since there's a lot of interesting and effective weapons that existed.

[taalismn]

Oddly enough, one of the Puckle Guns fired square bullets for use against Muslims(I'm assuming they had the Bedouin in mind)... talk about discrimination in warfare....One can imagine some argument over the wrong groups being shot with the wrong ammo.

Yeah I saw that. It is rather discriminatory. Not that I think they'd care. It'd be like, "Oopsie! Oh well. He was a heathen anyway or he wouldn't be fighting us." -(

"He ate spaghetti with the wrong sauce! P PASTA DOESN'T GO WITH GOAT CHEESE!!!! HERESY!"

"HE WENT TO EATON, NOT SANDHURST!!!! DIE, HEATHEN!"

[abe]

Holiday lore-the ability to know about the various holidays around you,but how they came about & how to properly celebrate them!
Chance of success is 25+iq% +8% you have a bonus 15% to know how to celebrate your native holidays.

[taalismn]

Holiday lore-the ability to know about the various holidays around you,but how they came about & how to properly celebrate them!
Chance of success is 25+iq% +8% you have a bonus 15% to know how to celebrate your native holidays.

You've already posted this, or something very similar to it, before.

I'd consider this to not be a skill, but just common cultural knowledge to anybody who can read a calendar and do a little research, or who has been brought up in a faith-based household, as is appropriate..
And what defines a 'holiday'? Official government recognition and a day off? Do we limit it to religious observances only? How about non-official 'holidays' like National Creampuff Day or Chocolate Chip Cookie Day? Do they count? If I look those up on the internet or a library book, am I using Research, or Lore: Holidays?

If you're looking into a culture from the outside, I'd suggest the little known Palladium Fantasy (High Seas) skill Lore: Culture and Customs, Lore: Religion or the more general Anthropology skill. If a 'holiday' has a magical component, any of the following can apply: Astrology, Lore: Magi, or :Lore: Cults & Secret Societies.


And Abe, would you REALLY use this skill in a game, given its very limited focus?

[Stone Gargoyle]

T

Holiday lore-the ability to know about the various holidays around you,but how they came about & how to properly celebrate them!
Chance of success is 25+iq% +8% you have a bonus 15% to know how to celebrate your native holidays.

Too general. I would think that holidays for religions would be covered by the lore specific to that religion. Otherwise this is just trivia, which is covered by knowing a lot of different lore. You don't need a generic holidays lore skill.

[taalismn]

Too general. I would think that holidays for religions would be covered by the lore specific to that religion. Otherwise this is just trivia, which is covered by knowing a lot of different lore. You don't need a generic holidays lore skill.

Besides, I think there will be other signs of an alien/demon infiltration of society other than they're the ones flying confederate flags on the 4th of July, or cooking ostrich on Thanksgiving. I'm not going to waste a skill choice on this one, especially considering how flexible many holiday customs have become.

[Sambot]

Oddly enough, one of the Puckle Guns fired square bullets for use against Muslims(I'm assuming they had the Bedouin in mind)... talk about discrimination in warfare....One can imagine some argument over the wrong groups being shot with the wrong ammo.

Yeah I saw that. It is rather discriminatory. Not that I think they'd care. It'd be like, "Oopsie! Oh well. He was a heathen anyway or he wouldn't be fighting us." -(

"He ate spaghetti with the wrong sauce! P PASTA DOESN'T GO WITH GOAT CHEESE!!!! HERESY!"

"HE WENT TO EATON, NOT SANDHURST!!!! DIE, HEATHEN!"

LOL!

Holiday lore-the ability to know about the various holidays around you,but how they came about & how to properly celebrate them!
Chance of success is 25+iq% +8% you have a bonus 15% to know how to celebrate your native holidays.

You've already posted this, or something very similar to it, before.

I'd consider this to not be a skill, but just common cultural knowledge to anybody who can read a calendar and do a little research, or who has been brought up in a faith-based household, as is appropriate..
And what defines a 'holiday'? Official government recognition and a day off? Do we limit it to religious observances only? How about non-official 'holidays' like National Creampuff Day or Chocolate Chip Cookie Day? Do they count? If I look those up on the internet or a library book, am I using Research, or Lore: Holidays?

If you're looking into a culture from the outside, I'd suggest the little known Palladium Fantasy (High Seas) skill Lore: Culture and Customs, Lore: Religion or the more general Anthropology skill. If a 'holiday' has a magical component, any of the following can apply: Astrology, Lore: Magi, or :Lore: Cults & Secret Societies.


And Abe, would you REALLY use this skill in a game, given its very limited focus?

It could be a skill. There's lots of very specific skills in the books. Mostly the older out of print ones but they're there. And there are some people who do specialize in things like that.

T

Holiday lore-the ability to know about the various holidays around you,but how they came about & how to properly celebrate them!
Chance of success is 25+iq% +8% you have a bonus 15% to know how to celebrate your native holidays.

Too general. I would think that holidays for religions would be covered by the lore specific to that religion. Otherwise this is just trivia, which is covered by knowing a lot of different lore. You don't need a generic holidays lore skill.

In away but I would think taking it as a skill would mean that they have a more in depth knowledge than the average person. They're know why a specif day is a holiday while most people just know it is. They wouldn't have as much knowledge though as someone who specialized in a specific holiday. That person would know how the holiday is celebrated world wide.


Thing is, its more a skill an NPC would have. I'd suggest a PC should choose another skill unless they're actually going to use it.

[Stone Gargoyle]

In away but I would think taking it as a skill would mean that they have a more in depth knowledge than the average person. They're know why a specif day is a holiday while most people just know it is. They wouldn't have as much knowledge though as someone who specialized in a specific holiday. That person would know how the holiday is celebrated world wide.
Thing is, its more a skill an NPC would have. I'd suggest a PC should choose another skill unless they're actually going to use it.

This is my point: To have in depth knowledge about a holiday, you would need other skills such as History, Religion or Mythology. To simply know the basics about a holiday that everyone else knows is not a skill. Even to know all the holidays, all one would need is Research. To make it a specific skill gives them a general framework to bypass all those other skills I mentioned. And as you point out, it is a useless skill to put in a game, unless of course you plan to run a campaign where a villain or hero bases their activities on holidays.

[taalismn]

In away but I would think taking it as a skill would mean that they have a more in depth knowledge than the average person. They're know why a specif day is a holiday while most people just know it is. They wouldn't have as much knowledge though as someone who specialized in a specific holiday. That person would know how the holiday is celebrated world wide.


Thing is, its more a skill an NPC would have. I'd suggest a PC should choose another skill unless they're actually going to use it.

Lore: Religion or straightforward History, might let you know, for example, that Christmas has been moved around date-wise to appeal to the northern pagan converts(from whom many customs have been borrowed). But the way the OP was set up 'the various holidays around you'. Well, I'm aware of not only the major religious holidays, the civil holidays, the memorial holidays, but also the commercial interest holidays(like Seafood Day) and the gag holidays(International Talk Like a Pirate Day' or National Gorilla Suit Day).

But, yes, I can see a villain or a nut bar(or M.O.M/ Crazy) going total immersion in character playing Saint Nick, but I'd figure that to be window-dressing for the character, and not something I'd assign a skill slot to.

I mean, how many times does the Rogue Scholar get in a trivia duel on holiday lore with a bad guy and expect to live if he points out the bad guy is WRONG on some point?

[Sambot]

This is my point: To have in depth knowledge about a holiday, you would need other skills such as History, Religion or Mythology. To simply know the basics about a holiday that everyone else knows is not a skill. Even to know all the holidays, all one would need is Research. To make it a specific skill gives them a general framework to bypass all those other skills I mentioned. And as you point out, it is a useless skill to put in a game, unless of course you plan to run a campaign where a villain or hero bases their activities on holidays.

Research would be useful. The others would be as well. Having a Lore: Holiday skill though doesn't bypass the need for those skills. It means that the research was limited to just that subject. It doesn't mean they could research something else because they wouldn't recognize if it was important or not. It'd be like someone taking Law: Tax Law and then being asked to defend someone in a murder case. They may have a Law Skill but they'd be out of their depth in a murder case. Lore: Holidays is the same. They know a lot about Holidays but little if any about Conspiracy Theories or Comic Books, or TV Soap Operas or whatever.

Lore: Religion or straightforward History, might let you know, for example, that Christmas has been moved around date-wise to appeal to the northern pagan converts(from whom many customs have been borrowed). But the way the OP was set up 'the various holidays around you'. Well, I'm aware of not only the major religious holidays, the civil holidays, the memorial holidays, but also the commercial interest holidays(like Seafood Day) and the gag holidays(International Talk Like a Pirate Day' or National Gorilla Suit Day).

But, yes, I can see a villain or a nut bar(or M.O.M/ Crazy) going total immersion in character playing Saint Nick, but I'd figure that to be window-dressing for the character, and not something I'd assign a skill slot to.

I mean, how many times does the Rogue Scholar get in a trivia duel on holiday lore with a bad guy and expect to live if he points out the bad guy is WRONG on some point?

They might but then might not or it may but not give any details. A specific skill though would. It sure sounds like you know more about holidays than I do.

I can see assigning a skill though because they're not normal characters. Did you know there's like 60 Study skills? That doesn't include Lore, or History, or Law, where things can overlap a lot. Some are also general and others very specific. They're all given to NPCs though. If a PC were to choose such a skill, I'd expect them to use it. Meaning annoying everyone else about that subject.

The Scholar could tell him, "I don't blame you for not believing me but it's true. It's easily missed but it's right there in XWC volume 24. Look it up. I'll wait here." Then run when he goes to look it up.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I still don't think Lore: Holidays is a skill you would get much use out of.

[taalismn]

I still don't think Lore: Holidays is a skill you would get much use out of.

Unless your entire Palladium RPG campaign setting is just trying to get through the day without choking yourself trying to put your head through a jacket buttonhole or have a conversation that doesn't end with you being ignored as a noob or stuffed into a garbage dumpster

At best I'd say, as with regards to various cooking cuisine skills, just take the general Lore skill and tack on (name of your obsession here) and retain the same percentages and exp, rather than make it a separate and distinct skill on its own.

As it was written, the OP lacked the depth, utility, and game mechanic detail of a serious scholarship skill, or the novelty and cleverness of a gag skill.

[Sambot]

I still don't think Lore: Holidays is a skill you would get much use out of.

I don't think so either.

Unless your entire Palladium RPG campaign setting is just trying to get through the day without choking yourself trying to put your head through a jacket buttonhole or have a conversation that doesn't end with you being ignored as a noob or stuffed into a garbage dumpster

At best I'd say, as with regards to various cooking cuisine skills, just take the general Lore skill and tack on (name of your obsession here) and retain the same percentages and exp, rather than make it a separate and distinct skill on its own.

As it was written, the OP lacked the depth, utility, and game mechanic detail of a serious scholarship skill, or the novelty and cleverness of a gag skill.

The various Lore skills do have their own percentages usually 25%-30% +5% per level.

Considering some skills I've seen PCs have don't even have a description I'm not going to complain about how little his has.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Considering some skills I've seen PCs have don't even have a description I'm not going to complain about how little his has.

I disagree. If you are going to post something it should be well thought out, not some basic framework. Anybody can post the name of a skill and percentages.

[taalismn]

That is the problem with writing new skills:

*Usefulness---How useful is the skill? Does its benefits outweigh the penalties of wasting a skill slot on something that is hardly, or never going to be used?

*Feasibility---Is it physically or mentally possible to perform this skill? If physical, can a body really be made to (voluntarily_ do that? If mental, is it plausible that somebody could think like that or know that much about something?

*Distribution of the Skill---Is the skill likely to be of use to a broad section of people, or can it be exclusive only to one or two specific occupations? Is it better written up as a facet of an OCC?

*Difficulty----How much time and effort go into learning and practicing the skill? Can it be picked up so easily that anybody can acquire reasonable proficiency in a very short time? That might hinder it being regarded as a skill. For example: riding a tricycle or Big Wheel trike is a LOT easier than learning to balance on, and ride a bike. We don't have Pilot: Tricycle, but we have Pilot: Bicycle.
(However, it should be noted that with the popularity of recumbent adult tricycles, there might be something to a Pilot Tricycle skill...or, given the issues of stability and similarities of operation of the recumbent types, they might still better fall under the Bicycle skill)

*Inclusion----Does the skill require prerequisites that make it part of a package deal? Does it cover/Include aspects of other skills? Or can it itself be better included under the coverage of another skill? (For example, Rowing a boat could be considered a Physical skill, but the argument might be made that if it's done on dry land using a machine, the exercise might be better considered as being part of BodyBuilding). If it covers many aspects of a subject, can it be so conveniently wrapped up in one skill, or is it better or more plausibly covered by a combination of other skills?(For example: if I'm writing a Crisis Preparedness skill, I could argue that having a deep knowledge of the statistics of how much food, water, power, and medicine a given number of people need in an emergency, the figures for how many vehicles operating on what sort of a schedule would be needed to evacuate them, and the sorts of facilities I might want to preposition for emergency response, makes it plausible for being a skill. Somebody else might argue that such might be better covered taking Intelligence, Inventory Systems, Research, and some attendant Communications and management-related Technical skills).

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is also 'am I just making a duplicate skill?"

Just made a Zodiac Mage (for the PF RPG world) from R50. and it has the Astrology skill and the fortune telling skill. They detailed the FT skill in the class.
But the only Astrology skill I know of is in the MiO book. And when I read the Astrology skill there it was just like the FT skill from the ZM class.
Might as well add in Yarow stick counting from MC for 'duplicate' skills.

This was besides that the other new skill presented in the ZM class was Lore: zodiac, was presented w/o a skill %.
And the class mentions the performance skill which is not in the PF RPG game books. (Yes, I found it elsewhere. So no need to tell me it is in the regretful book.)

[taalismn]

There is also 'am I just making a duplicate skill?"

Just made a Zodiac Mage (for the PF RPG world) from R50. and it has the Astrology skill and the fortune telling skill. They detailed the FT skill in the class.
But the only Astrology skill I know of is in the MiO book. And when I read the Astrology skill there it was just like the FT skill from the ZM class.
Might as well add in Yarow stick counting from MC for 'duplicate' skills.

This was besides that the other new skill presented in the ZM class was Lore: zodiac, was presented w/o a skill %.
And the class mentions the performance skill which is not in the PF RPG game books. (Yes, I found it elsewhere. So no need to tell me it is in the regretful book.)

Yep, that sometimes happens, especially if the writer doesn't have all the books t research through, or figures 'hey, I'll use the fortune-telling stats, but it's using star charts instead of reading tea leaves! THat's sufficiently different, right?

That's where good editing and fact checking also come in handy(this astrology question kinda reminds me of one of the old 'Omen' movies where the plot McMuffin is dependent on STARS assuming a certain formation---unleashing supernatural mayhem on Earth. NOBODY seems to have bothered telling the writers that it is PLANETS that visibly shift position as in the movie, not stars...Ignoring basic modern cosmology and astronomy. If stars behaved like that, the whole world would be going gaga, not just the movie main characters. It rather illustrates how poor understanding of a subject and bad editing can utterly sink narrative)

[tamorrison]

I've been working on consolidating the skill system. I'd like to post the results of my efforts somewhere for the Palladium public to review and comment, but I can't post attachments here. What are my options?

[Stone Gargoyle]

I've been working on consolidating the skill system. I'd like to post the results of my efforts somewhere for the Palladium public to review and comment, but I can't post attachments here. What are my options?

For one, this isn't the place for that. If you want to do that, start your own thread. You will have to post a link or type it out. I don't think the forum has a way of doing attachments.

[Sambot]

That is the problem with writing new skills:

I agree it isn't easy to great new skills but I do think that you're over thinking some things here.

*Usefulness---How useful is the skill? Does its benefits outweigh the penalties of wasting a skill slot on something that is hardly, or never going to be used?

What one person considered useful another will consider the skill useless. It all depends on the person selecting the skill. For example, some could consider Model Making a useless skill. Yet there's those who've gone to have careers in TV and movies making models. So it is useful. The trick is using the skill in a game. Like having the CO have the character make a diorama to help plan a mission.

*Feasibility---Is it physically or mentally possible to perform this skill? If physical, can a body really be made to (voluntarily_ do that? If mental, is it plausible that somebody could think like that or know that much about something?

I think this is just over thought. There's always going to be someone who can do something or think of something others can't. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be a skill. It's like anyone can pick up a gun, not everyone can reload them much less take them apart and give them a thorough cleaning.

*Distribution of the Skill---Is the skill likely to be of use to a broad section of people, or can it be exclusive only to one or two specific occupations? Is it better written up as a facet of an OCC?

I do think some skills are going to be more rare than others for all kinds of reasons. I don't think that skills should be 100% exclusive though. I think almost anything can be learned though if the person has enough desire. Having a teacher would help even more.

*Difficulty----How much time and effort go into learning and practicing the skill? Can it be picked up so easily that anybody can acquire reasonable proficiency in a very short time? That might hinder it being regarded as a skill. For example: riding a tricycle or Big Wheel trike is a LOT easier than learning to balance on, and ride a bike. We don't have Pilot: Tricycle, but we have Pilot: Bicycle.
(However, it should be noted that with the popularity of recumbent adult tricycles, there might be something to a Pilot Tricycle skill...or, given the issues of stability and similarities of operation of the recumbent types, they might still better fall under the Bicycle skill)

Difficulty can depend on a lot of things. Usually on how long it takes to learn, usually represented by pre-requisites and low base percentages. For example it can take years to get a law degree but someone else can study law and be just as knowledgeable without the degree. There's also on the job training versus book learning.
As for Tricyles, there is a rule that lets characters try things. I wouldn't think a Tricycle would be that difficult. Riding a bike with a side car though or trailer would be more complicated though.

*Inclusion----Does the skill require prerequisites that make it part of a package deal? Does it cover/Include aspects of other skills? Or can it itself be better included under the coverage of another skill? (For example, Rowing a boat could be considered a Physical skill, but the argument might be made that if it's done on dry land using a machine, the exercise might be better considered as being part of BodyBuilding). If it covers many aspects of a subject, can it be so conveniently wrapped up in one skill, or is it better or more plausibly covered by a combination of other skills?(For example: if I'm writing a Crisis Preparedness skill, I could argue that having a deep knowledge of the statistics of how much food, water, power, and medicine a given number of people need in an emergency, the figures for how many vehicles operating on what sort of a schedule would be needed to evacuate them, and the sorts of facilities I might want to preposition for emergency response, makes it plausible for being a skill. Somebody else might argue that such might be better covered taking Intelligence, Inventory Systems, Research, and some attendant Communications and management-related Technical skills).

I don't think that overlap should be a reason not to have a skill. In your example the person trained in Crisis Preparedness can respond faster as its what they're trained in. That doesn't mean that others can't use multiple skills to do the same job. Conversely the Crisis person can try to do the other's job because of some of the overlap in training but because they're so focused on on thing they're not going to be able to do it as well.

[Sambot]

Considering some skills I've seen PCs have don't even have a description I'm not going to complain about how little his has.

I disagree. If you are going to post something it should be well thought out, not some basic framework. Anybody can post the name of a skill and percentages.

There are skills with no definitions at all. I'm not even sure if there's a Study category or what the base percentages of the skills as I don't have the first edition books. At least this one has a definition and percentages.

[Stone Gargoyle]

There are skills with no definitions at all. I'm not even sure if there's a Study category or what the base percentages of the skills as I don't have the first edition books. At least this one has a definition and percentages.

I play Second Edition. The category is Scholar and Technical. But getting back to the issue, I like to think we are capable of making complete skills regardless of what has been allowed in the books.

[taalismn]

*Feasibility---Is it physically or mentally possible to perform this skill? If physical, can a body really be made to (voluntarily_ do that? If mental, is it plausible that somebody could think like that or know that much about something?

I think this is just over thought. There's always going to be someone who can do something or think of something others can't. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be a skill. It's like anyone can pick up a gun, not everyone can reload them much less take them apart and give them a thorough cleaning.

To the contrary; it seems I didn't think this one thoroughly ENOUGH.
True, a person without arms can't be expected to be able to pick up a gun and fire it(though, I can picture a character using their feet, with GREAT difficulty, unless mitigated by some other advantage, like particularly dexterous feet, which should/would be noted in the character's stats...and firing the gun), and beings with especially long fingers might be able to dual fire guns in their hands, while giants might be able to pick up bazookas and use them like handguns.
And certain physiological conditions prevent people from being able to think certain things or perceive them, making their practice of some skills (like a blind person trying to paint solo) haphazard and extremely difficult at best.

There will be those species and those medical advancements and technological adaptations that will allow things to be done that a (normal/human)/In good health) person couldn't/can't do, but IMHO these are case-by-case, or species-specific, situation that fall outside the skill(s) involved
A blind person might paint with the assistance of cybernetic devices, or using paints that have different textures, or with the assistance of a friend guiding them. We don't need a specific 'Blind-Painting' skill.
A being able to do something with their hands normal humans can't do with their hands? That should be reflected in the being's stats/description.

Many things can be done with existing skills, but with the appropriate penalties applied to them, or modified by physiological or technological factors.

But if a skill is presented that in its description effectively gives absurd bonuses or advantages that step beyond plausibility and into superpower/paranormal territory need to looked at again and checked. A Technical skill like(off the top of my head) say, 'Stock Market Trading', might give you a practical understanding of financial markets, give you an edge over s less-studied day-trader,and might even give you some ideas for scamming the markets, but if the skill description said 'allows you to make lots of money playing the Stockmarket!' along with some absurdly high proficiency base(like 60% +10 % per level of experience), I'd discard it as a stinker. Unless you've got other skills or advantages, like Incredible Luck, Clairvoyance, or Gordon Gecko-levels of insider knowledge, you're going to be subject to market forces even with your Stock Market Trading skill. In the case of SMT, I'd assign a more realistic skill rating of 30%+5%.

[Sambot]

There are skills with no definitions at all. I'm not even sure if there's a Study category or what the base percentages of the skills as I don't have the first edition books. At least this one has a definition and percentages.

I play Second Edition. The category is Scholar and Technical. But getting back to the issue, I like to think we are capable of making complete skills regardless of what has been allowed in the books.

I meant like Communications and Domestic. I've been working on a list of skills but I'm not sure where to put Study skills though. I figure they're like Lore skills so stuck them in the Technical Category.

I would hope we could make a complete list of skills. Although how complete is complete? I think I understood what the Holiday Skill was supposed to be.

[Sambot]

To the contrary; it seems I didn't think this one thoroughly ENOUGH.
True, a person without arms can't be expected to be able to pick up a gun and fire it(though, I can picture a character using their feet, with GREAT difficulty, unless mitigated by some other advantage, like particularly dexterous feet, which should/would be noted in the character's stats...and firing the gun), and beings with especially long fingers might be able to dual fire guns in their hands, while giants might be able to pick up bazookas and use them like handguns.
And certain physiological conditions prevent people from being able to think certain things or perceive them, making their practice of some skills (like a blind person trying to paint solo) haphazard and extremely difficult at best.

For the most part that might be true, especially for someone who lost their arms. Then again there are people who use their feet just as well as others use their hands. And while its true some conditions might make it more difficult to use some skills those same conditions might also make them better at others. In cases like this I would think it'd be up to the GM. I might allow someone with only legs to have the Pilot Helicopters skill but I wouldn't let them practice that skill without a copilot as they'd need more than their feet to work all the controls.

There will be those species and those medical advancements and technological adaptations that will allow things to be done that a (normal/human)/In good health) person couldn't/can't do, but IMHO these are case-by-case, or species-specific, situation that fall outside the skill(s) involved
A blind person might paint with the assistance of cybernetic devices, or using paints that have different textures, or with the assistance of a friend guiding them. We don't need a specific 'Blind-Painting' skill.
A being able to do something with their hands normal humans can't do with their hands? That should be reflected in the being's stats/description.

Many things can be done with existing skills, but with the appropriate penalties applied to them, or modified by physiological or technological factors.

I agree in part. I don't think we need a Blind-Painting skill. There's skill penalties and bonuses as well as stat bonuses/minus that can be applies. However, I do think there's a difference between someone who just paints, and someone who specializes in a specific medium. They can work in the others but the end results wouldn't be as nice.

But if a skill is presented that in its description effectively gives absurd bonuses or advantages that step beyond plausibility and into superpower/paranormal territory need to looked at again and checked. A Technical skill like(off the top of my head) say, 'Stock Market Trading', might give you a practical understanding of financial markets, give you an edge over s less-studied day-trader,and might even give you some ideas for scamming the markets, but if the skill description said 'allows you to make lots of money playing the Stockmarket!' along with some absurdly high proficiency base(like 60% +10 % per level of experience), I'd discard it as a stinker. Unless you've got other skills or advantages, like Incredible Luck, Clairvoyance, or Gordon Gecko-levels of insider knowledge, you're going to be subject to market forces even with your Stock Market Trading skill. In the case of SMT, I'd assign a more realistic skill rating of 30%+5%.

I agree. In this case, the skill itself shouldn't be invalidated but the definition and percentage should be looked at.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I would hope we could make a complete list of skills.

Most of the skills here are collected in the Black Vault Wiki.

[tamorrison]

I've been working on consolidating the skill system. I'd like to post the results of my efforts somewhere for the Palladium public to review and comment, but I can't post attachments here. What are my options?

For one, this isn't the place for that. If you want to do that, start your own thread. You will have to post a link or type it out. I don't think the forum has a way of doing attachments.

Thanks. I appreciate.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I've been working on consolidating the skill system. I'd like to post the results of my efforts somewhere for the Palladium public to review and comment, but I can't post attachments here. What are my options?

For one, this isn't the place for that. If you want to do that, start your own thread. You will have to post a link or type it out. I don't think the forum has a way of doing attachments.

Thanks. I appreciate.

No problem.

[Sambot]

I would hope we could make a complete list of skills.

Most of the skills here are collected in the Black Vault Wiki.

I have seen it. It's pretty cool. I hope to include them eventually. Right now though I've been trying to go through all the books though to get a complete a list as possible. Rifter #0 missed a whole lot of skills, new skills have been added, and other books gone out of print so unique skills in them get lost. I'd love it if Palladium would release a Giant Book of Skills with conversion notes to use in different games.

[taalismn]

[
I have seen it. It's pretty cool. I hope to include them eventually. Right now though I've been trying to go through all the books though to get a complete a list as possible. Rifter #0 missed a whole lot of skills, new skills have been added, and other books gone out of print so unique skills in them get lost. I'd love it if Palladium would release a Giant Book of Skills with conversion notes to use in different games.

I'd be all for that, though it would probably be good for only a couple of years, if the publishing schedule picks up again, before enough new skills came out to render it obsolete.

[Sambot]

[
I have seen it. It's pretty cool. I hope to include them eventually. Right now though I've been trying to go through all the books though to get a complete a list as possible. Rifter #0 missed a whole lot of skills, new skills have been added, and other books gone out of print so unique skills in them get lost. I'd love it if Palladium would release a Giant Book of Skills with conversion notes to use in different games.

I'd be all for that, though it would probably be good for only a couple of years, if the publishing schedule picks up again, before enough new skills came out to render it obsolete.

Yeah, although new editions could be updated with the new skills. PDF of course would be easier to do. Or every so often all the new skills could be gathered and published in a small book as an appendix or something. I'd originally hoped it could be in the Rifter as it could be reprinted easier but that isn't possible right now.


Thing is the concept could be expanded to magic, psionics and super powers.

[Stone Gargoyle]

A Big Book of Skills would be cool. There are already books focused on magic, so unless they do a Magic Unlimited with magic more geared towards Heroes Unlimited, not really interested in that.