Incredibly stupid piloting question

[Warshield73]

So this is a little overly cartoony but I'm writing a Macross scenario set on a crippled or maybe derelict Zentraedi ship at the end of the First Robotech War. What I am trying to work out is an escape, so the question.

Can a Veritech Pilot with the skill of pilot spacecraft fly a zentraedi shuttle while in Battleoid mode? Could a Spartan destroid do it?

What I was thinking was when they are trying to escape they board a shuttle or cyclops or something, in their mechs, a VT pilot gets into the pilot seat and uses his VT to pilot the shuttle and fly away from the ship as it falls into...I don't know maybe Jupiter.

If you allowed this, what penalties would you use?

[Jefffar]

If a crew of 4 normal sized humans can figure out how to pilot an unmodified battlepod together, then a mecha can probably pilot a Zentraedi spacecraft.

I'd say it won't be easy, the penalty for working with alien technology is -40% and you may want to add another 20 to 40% penalty due to piloting the mecha to pilot the spacecraft.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If a crew of 4 normal sized humans can figure out how to pilot an unmodified battlepod together, then a mecha can probably pilot a Zentraedi spacecraft.

I'd say it won't be easy, the penalty for working with alien technology is -40% and you may want to add another 20 to 40% penalty due to piloting the mecha to pilot the spacecraft.

agrees,

EDIT: but only the valkyries.

There would be a lot of flying by trial and error, but zent shuttles are tough.

[Warshield73]

If a crew of 4 normal sized humans can figure out how to pilot an unmodified battlepod together, then a mecha can probably pilot a Zentraedi spacecraft.

This is exactly the scene I was thinking of.

I'd say it won't be easy, the penalty for working with alien technology is -40% and you may want to add another 20 to 40% penalty due to piloting the mecha to pilot the spacecraft.

The mechanics I had in mind was for each thing the person wanted to do he had to do two rolls for each skill they need to perform.

First, for each thing the pilot does he needs to roll Pilot Veritech at -15% or -20% for delicate work.
Second, roll the applicable skill (Pilot Spacecraft, Nav Space, Computer Ops, etc.) at -40% for alien tech.

Thanks for the input.

[Seto Kaiba]

Can a Veritech Pilot with the skill of pilot spacecraft fly a zentraedi shuttle while in Battleoid mode? Could a Spartan destroid do it?

Looking at it from a design standpoint, neither the Valkyrie nor Spartan could fit into the pilot's seat... but then again, you've got giant robot PS and a laser capable of cutting, so the seat can simply be removed.

The Spartan's Norman Banks CH2-TYPE.D combat claw hands aren't suited to tasks requiring manual dexterity, they're built for maximum durability while brawling, ripping, and tearing. It's not the kind of thing you'd want to use to manipulate (comparatively) delicate flight controls. It'd be a bit like trying to drive your car with a machete glued to each hand.

The Valkyrie could probably do it, though it'd probably have to use the "magic hands" manipulators as its big mitts are a bit on the large side.

Fortunately, since Zentradi ships and mecha are designed to be relatively straightforward to operate in the name of making them as robust as possible, actually piloting it once they've got the controls figured out shouldn't be THAT hard.

[glitterboy2098]

i don't see why not, between the hands and the deployable manipulator arms it should be able to work the controls. agreed though that you'd have a big penalty to the piloting skill due to the ungainliness of the approach.

why are the players on board the ship in the first place? if it is a salvage Op, perhaps instead some of their NPC tech people (sent along to actually do the salvage survey) might have the adaptors needed to interface human portable computers with zent hardware, which would let them access the Shuttle's autopilot? they wouldn't be able to fly it in real time but they could (with the Player's help) set up a course to get them to safety.

[The Beast]

The mechanics I had in mind was for each thing the person wanted to do he had to do two rolls for each skill they need to perform.

First, for each thing the pilot does he needs to roll Pilot Veritech at -15% or -20% for delicate work.
Second, roll the applicable skill (Pilot Spacecraft, Nav Space, Computer Ops, etc.) at -40% for alien tech.

Thanks for the input.

Personally I'd limit that first roll to just once, unless the players' skills are maxed out. Otherwise with how low the skills in Palladium start out at you'll be looking at a lot of failed piloting checks.

[Seto Kaiba]

Personally I'd limit that first roll to just once, unless the players' skills are maxed out. Otherwise with how low the skills in Palladium start out at you'll be looking at a lot of failed piloting checks.

Isn't that kind of what you'd realistically expect from trying to pilot an unfamiliar aircraft with a pair of manually controlled robot arms... a task that normally requires a fair amount of manual dexterity and hand-eye coordination?

[The Beast]

Personally I'd limit that first roll to just once, unless the players' skills are maxed out. Otherwise with how low the skills in Palladium start out at you'll be looking at a lot of failed piloting checks.

Isn't that kind of what you'd realistically expect from trying to pilot an unfamiliar aircraft with a pair of manually controlled robot arms... a task that normally requires a fair amount of manual dexterity and hand-eye coordination?

Not if you want the game to move forward.

[Peacebringer]

Can they read Zentraedi?

[Warshield73]

Looking at it from a design standpoint, neither the Valkyrie nor Spartan could fit into the pilot's seat... but then again, you've got giant robot PS and a laser capable of cutting, so the seat can simply be removed.

I can see this with the Spartan but the Valkyrie is basically humanoid and looks like it could sit. Didn't Max get his into a Zentraedi uniform so I thought it should be able to sit in a chair. It is a little tall but I think it should fit. The Spartan is really bulky so that would likely need to rip a seat out.

The Spartan's Norman Banks CH2-TYPE.D combat claw hands aren't suited to tasks requiring manual dexterity, they're built for maximum durability while brawling, ripping, and tearing. It's not the kind of thing you'd want to use to manipulate (comparatively) delicate flight controls. It'd be a bit like trying to drive your car with a machete glued to each hand.

I thought the Spartan might be too bulky for the seat but since it says they can use GU-11s and Zentraedi guns I thought they might be able too.

The Valkyrie could probably do it, though it'd probably have to use the "magic hands" manipulators as its big mitts are a bit on the large side.

The Valkyrie is a little larger than a zentrardi, but since it can use Zentraedi hand guns in a pinch I figured it could probably work the Zentraedi controls. The magic hands appear to be human sized for human technical work so I didn't think it would work. I wrote of the Defender using it's magic hands for the same reason.

i don't see why not, between the hands and the deployable manipulator arms it should be able to work the controls. agreed though that you'd have a big penalty to the piloting skill due to the ungainliness of the approach.

why are the players on board the ship in the first place? if it is a salvage Op, perhaps instead some of their NPC tech people (sent along to actually do the salvage survey) might have the adaptors needed to interface human portable computers with zent hardware, which would let them access the Shuttle's autopilot? they wouldn't be able to fly it in real time but they could (with the Player's help) set up a course to get them to safety.

I haven't worked out the entire scenario yet, I know I want to set it in a damaged Zentraedi ship that is going to crash or blow up as a ticking clock. I have run Macross era at conventions about a dozen times and most of my adventures have been on Earth so I wanted to get out into space a little. Also, I love doing close combat in mechs and ship interiors are great for that. In truth, I may turn this into a bit of a dungeon crawl for Robotech.

I had a few approaches:
1 - It's during space battle and the PCs are the survivors of a boarding action and now need to escape.
2 - After the firing of the Grand Cannon several ships were left lifeless. PCs board the ship for salvage, find a group of Malcontents onboard trying to get the weapons working, battle ensues, there transport is destroyed and they need to evac.

Right now I'm just trying to make sure the PCs have a way off the ship at the end.

As for hooking in earth tech into the shuttle, if this was a campaign with regular players in a campaign that is where I would let them go but this is a 4 hour con game and the departure in the shuttle will be the end.

Personally I'd limit that first roll to just once, unless the players' skills are maxed out. Otherwise with how low the skills in Palladium start out at you'll be looking at a lot of failed piloting checks.

Isn't that kind of what you'd realistically expect from trying to pilot an unfamiliar aircraft with a pair of manually controlled robot arms... a task that normally requires a fair amount of manual dexterity and hand-eye coordination?

The characters are all at 4th or 5th level so the skill his high enough that they should be OK, also I kind of agree with Seto this is what you would expect.

Also, the scenario is shaping up to be a little dark. PCs will have to be engaged in some guerilla tactics and killing large number of Zentraedi outside of there mechs so I like the idea of ending on a sort of bumper-cars bouncing the shuttle out of the launch bay just as the big ship explodes.

If the PCs come up with a better plan of escape than I do great, but I like to have one or two just so I know it's possible.

Can they read Zentraedi?

The characters are pregens so I will make sure that at least 2 or 3 characters will have it.

[Seto Kaiba]

I can see this with the Spartan but the Valkyrie is basically humanoid and looks like it could sit. Didn't Max get his into a Zentraedi uniform so I thought it should be able to sit in a chair. It is a little tall but I think it should fit. The Spartan is really bulky so that would likely need to rip a seat out.

As I see it, there are two problems with trying to get the Valkyrie into the pilot's seat of a Zentradi shuttle or theater scout.

• Your average rank and file Zentradi soldier is between 9 and 10 meters tall (5x 1.8m-2m). The VF-1 Valkyrie's about 30-40% larger than the pilot that pilot's seat was designed for, so it's probably not gonna fit gracefully. The guy Max mugged for a uniform was a commander class Zentradi, who are built much larger than the regular mooks who do things like piloting ships, manning gun turrets, and what have you, similar in size to the VF-1's Battroid mode.
• The VF-1's got that nosecone for a crotch, which complicates the process of sitting down like a normal humanoid.

I thought the Spartan might be too bulky for the seat but since it says they can use GU-11s and Zentraedi guns I thought they might be able too.

They're not actually able to do either of those things... I'm not sure where the RPG's writers got that idea.

Perhaps they confused it for the old Mk.I Tomahawk, which had the same kind of hands that the VF-1 does. The Spartan's hands are huge, wedge-like fists meant for bludgeoning stuff... it'd be like trying to operate an M16 rifle while wearing boxing gloves.

The Valkyrie is a little larger than a zentrardi, but since it can use Zentraedi hand guns in a pinch I figured it could probably work the Zentraedi controls. The magic hands appear to be human sized for human technical work so I didn't think it would work. I wrote of the Defender using it's magic hands for the same reason.

The Magic Hands are more dexterous... the VF-1's airframe control computer can handle certain tasks automatically like managing a gun, but when it comes to delicate tasks like picking up a person it needs direct manual control to avoid unintentional damage. (That's why it took so long for Hikaru/Rick to pick up Minmay in that VF-1D... he had to control the hand and arm manually to do it so that he wouldn't squish her.)

[ShadowLogan]

Can a Veritech Pilot with the skill of pilot spacecraft fly a zentraedi shuttle while in Battleoid mode? Could a Spartan destroid do it?

What I was thinking was when they are trying to escape they board a shuttle or cyclops or something, in their mechs, a VT pilot gets into the pilot seat and uses his VT to pilot the shuttle and fly away from the ship as it falls into...I don't know maybe Jupiter.

If you allowed this, what penalties would you use?

Could Mecha A operate Mecha B? I would say basically yes provided the mecha pilot had an applicable skill I would treat it as a Pilot Mecha and apply a straight penalty as if it was a demanding STUNT (which for all intense of purposes this is). This keeps the rolls to a minimum, I'd probably also add in some negatives to combat rolls (Dodge, using weapons, etc). Outstanding issues: durability of controls, can the mecha fit, and pilot position.

The Mecha in question have a Robotic PS range of 38-45 (by RAW), Zentreadi PS starts at 24 (for Infantry sub-group, others generally start out higher and they all receive some PS bonus automatically, with skills a possible +13 from loading up physical skills) and is considered Robotic for damage purposes (MacSB pg219m) though the giant Zent gets better lift/carry bonuses than the mecha (6x better). So durability of controls will not be an issue. If nothing else the fact that Max was able to operate numerous controls in the animation shows it shouldn't be an issue.

Being able to fit in something like a Shuttle or Cyclops shouldn't be an issue either. We see a VF-1 Battloid can walk around a Cyclops without much issue. And Breetai (IIRC even Dolza) does board a shuttle (though the pilot station might be another matter). So size should not be an issue.

The mecha are most likely not designed for actual sitting, which could be an issue. Though depending on specifics they might still be able to pilot in a standing position or lock some joints such that they appear to be sitting but aren't actually sitting in the seat (think Mime).

In terms of specifics, the Spartan's hands should impose a larger penalty, their hands would be like trying to do fine work wearing some type of thick heavy duty gloves, possible but certainly not easy.

Right now I'm just trying to make sure the PCs have a way off the ship at the end.

And a having available a giant Zentreadi pilot is out? Either as part of the PC team or a NPC prisoner/defector/mole/etc.

They're not actually able to do either of those things... I'm not sure where the RPG's writers got that idea.

"Instead, the Spartan was meant to be able to be similar in capability to a Veritech Valkyrie in Battloid mode, including carrying a gunpod, but with far heavier armor."-Robotech.com Infopedia MechaDatabase for the Spartan Destroid (https://robotech.com/roboverse/mecha/destroid-spartan).

Now the Infopedia is not the oldest source in Robotech lore, the old 1E RPG had this feature.

It's possible the Spartan could still operate a mecha gunpod, at least those intend for "remote" firing and "hand-held" use given gunpod models exist that are known to fire while Veritechs are in vehicle mode (GU-11, EP-40, EU-13, EU-11, IWS-40) if it had the appropriate hardware. Weather the Spartan has a "hardpoint" or just "holds" it like an action figure... Doesn't help for Zentreadi weapons (unless the "hardpoint" features a tigger pulling assembly those weapons can tap into or have a different set of hands capable of such operations as a modular/model specific feature).

[Warshield73]

Wanted to thank everybody for your input. I have a fairly good plan for how this will work assuming the PCs use this option. Definitely going to make the removal of the seat and serious penalties part of it.

[taalismn]

"No worries! I learned this playing 'Grand Theft: Mecha'! They have a Zentraedi spacecraft patch!"
"...please tell me the game programmers had access to our tech intelligence hardware evaluation reports...."