That Last bit of (M.D.C.) Armor Protection RUE House Rule

[carriath]

RUE states that the last bit of M.D.C. armor blocks all of the M.D.C. that destroys it.... however this causes a bit of hurt feelings when say, a Glitter Boy rolls a decent 130, and shreds a Enemy Troops remaining 65, and the soldier is unharmed.

House Rule: Any M.D.C. exceeding armor's capacity becomes S.D.C./H.P. damage, through the effects of the armor's destruction.

Whether that be electrical shock from Ion damage, mild to severe burns from Laser or Plasma Heat dispersion, or shrapnel from a shattered kinetic blast from a boom gun, the destruction of the armor should cause anywhere from minor scrape and burns to coma (Death at G.M. discretion)

I think it adds a little flavor for players as well, and raises the tension as armor gets low...

[The Beast]

Group I play with does the same thing.

[Mack]

In my head-canon, there’s a limit of 10-15 MDC on that rule.

[Axelmania]

In my head-canon, there’s a limit of 10-15 MDC on that rule.

The Splicers variant (pg 207) of the rule comes pretty close:

if there are at least two M.D.C. points left in the armor,
I will let as much as 20 M.D. be deflected by it
(21 or more points zaps the armor and the person inside)

Since this was published (2004) prior to RUE (2005) it weirdly seems they took something a lot more reasonable (2 stops 20) to something a lot more extreme (1 stops infinity).

I would like an idea like carriath's though where the amount of damage matters, but also taking into account the remaining MDC mattering.

Maybe something like R (R representing remaining MDC in armor when hit by final blast) is the amount of excess MD (MD minus R) which will be converted into normal damage.

Or maybe the excess could be doubled before being converted to normal damage? I want to keep the Lifeward spell important, after all.

[carriath]

In my head-canon, there’s a limit of 10-15 MDC on that rule.

The Splicers variant (pg 207) of the rule comes pretty close:

if there are at least two M.D.C. points left in the armor,
I will let as much as 20 M.D. be deflected by it
(21 or more points zaps the armor and the person inside)

Since this was published (2004) prior to RUE (2005) it weirdly seems they took something a lot more reasonable (2 stops 20) to something a lot more extreme (1 stops infinity).

I would like an idea like carriath's though where the amount of damage matters, but also taking into account the remaining MDC mattering.

Maybe something like R (R representing remaining MDC in armor when hit by final blast) is the amount of excess MD (MD minus R) which will be converted into normal damage. Or maybe the excess could be doubled before being converted to normal damage? I want to keep the Lifeward spell important, after all.

Ah, good point. I looked that up in Book of Magic. Then with this house rule, I would have Lifeward be the absorbs infinite damage with the last M.D.C. from RUE, and then continues converting future M.D.C. into S.D.C. as described in the spell.

The justification for the house rule makes easy sense when you think about high tech physical armor, but when dealing with armor constructed from Psychic Energy.... I guess, as the spell peters out the last effect is to decrease the remaining M.D.C. into survivable levels?

------

To the G.M.
"Wait, even 1 point of M.D.C. will absorb the full effect of a GB Boom Gun? I have the Armor smith print me ten 1 M.D.C. shirts and I wear them layered with t-shirts over my armor."

[Orin J.]

To the G.M.
"Wait, even 1 point of M.D.C. will absorb the full effect of a GB Boom Gun? I have the Armor smith print me ten 1 M.D.C. shirts and I wear them layered with t-shirts over my armor."

From a G.M.
"A T-shirt isn't armor, and the rule only applies to armor. You have ten MDC and the shot will launch your jellied remains across 3D6 miles."

[ShadowLogan]

RUE states that the last bit of M.D.C. armor blocks all of the M.D.C. that destroys it.... however this causes a bit of hurt feelings when say, a Glitter Boy rolls a decent 130, and shreds a Enemy Troops remaining 65, and the soldier is unharmed.

House Rule: Any M.D.C. exceeding armor's capacity becomes S.D.C./H.P. damage, through the effects of the armor's destruction.

Whether that be electrical shock from Ion damage, mild to severe burns from Laser or Plasma Heat dispersion, or shrapnel from a shattered kinetic blast from a boom gun, the destruction of the armor should cause anywhere from minor scrape and burns to coma (Death at G.M. discretion)

I think it adds a little flavor for players as well, and raises the tension as armor gets low...

Well within the official optional rules in RMB (pg 12) and RUE (pg355-6) there is SDC/HP "bleed through" when struck by certain types of MDC attacks and amounts. The values differ between RUE and the older RMB, both do grant rail guns an (optional) nifty feature of knocking someone off their feet if it does enough damage and someone might argue that the impact of the rail guns counts as or is equivalent to the listed examples.

Then again I find it easier to just ignore this rule.

[carriath]

RUE states that the last bit of M.D.C. armor blocks all of the M.D.C. that destroys it.... however this causes a bit of hurt feelings when say, a Glitter Boy rolls a decent 130, and shreds a Enemy Troops remaining 65, and the soldier is unharmed.

House Rule: Any M.D.C. exceeding armor's capacity becomes S.D.C./H.P. damage, through the effects of the armor's destruction.

Whether that be electrical shock from Ion damage, mild to severe burns from Laser or Plasma Heat dispersion, or shrapnel from a shattered kinetic blast from a boom gun, the destruction of the armor should cause anywhere from minor scrape and burns to coma (Death at G.M. discretion)

I think it adds a little flavor for players as well, and raises the tension as armor gets low...

Well within the official optional rules in RMB (pg 12) and RUE (pg355-6) there is SDC/HP "bleed through" when struck by certain types of MDC attacks and amounts. The values differ between RUE and the older RMB, both do grant rail guns an (optional) nifty feature of knocking someone off their feet if it does enough damage and someone might argue that the impact of the rail guns counts as or is equivalent to the listed examples.

Then again I find it easier to just ignore this rule.

I use those rules, it makes sense that even if you are in the best armor possible, falling will still damage the frail SDC body.

On the knockback roll, How do you solve the issue with a GB firing a Boom Gun, and knocking the rest of the part minus the borgs off their feet every action/attack? I've been working on the assumption that everyone just knows to get away from the GB when combat starts, and the Player Characters without cybernetic hearing protection have earplugs that dampen the sound to avoid losing initiative.

[Axelmania]

Ah, good point. I looked that up in Book of Magic. Then with this house rule, I would have Lifeward be the absorbs infinite damage with the last M.D.C. from RUE, and then continues converting future M.D.C. into S.D.C. as described in the spell.

Another spell of concern is Invincible Armor (FOM then BOM121) It basically had the GI Joe rule before there was one introduced in Splicers/RUE, it was a unique attraction of the spell:

Should the armor be destroyed, it absorbs all the extra damage and disappears in a flash of light. No dam­age is carried over to the wearer.

Other spells like Armor of Ithan / Armor Bizarre /etc. lacked text like that.

But now it seems ALL armor (including armor spells) function that way. So it feels like either IA should get some other feature to make up for it (maybe heal 2D6/melee instead of 1D6, or 30 MDC per level instead of 25, or reduce the skill % penalties?), or reduce it's level / PPE cost.

Another approach might be to heighten the level/PPE of all other armor spells that now get this effect (nerf those mages! they can afford the PPE now with RUE boosts!), but that's a lot more work than just modifying one spell.

[Orin J.]

i don't see how you look at all the other benefits of invincible armor and think it's not amazing even without that rule being exclusive to it.

[Axelmania]

i don't see how you look at all the other benefits of invincible armor and think it's not amazing even without that rule being exclusive to it.

it's still amazing, but less comparatively amazing compared to the degree of better it was when the rule only applied to it

[carriath]

i don't see how you look at all the other benefits of invincible armor and think it's not amazing even without that rule being exclusive to it.

it's still amazing, but less comparatively amazing compared to the degree of better it was when the rule only applied to it

I think the house rule would actually make the spell more amazing, the spell would be like adding the shield from HALO's Spartans on top of your armor.... Also, it regenerates, decreases damage, and absorbs the last bit of damage. So instead of converting the last bit over to S.D.C. this spell would negate that bit.

[Zer0 Kay]

To the G.M.
"Wait, even 1 point of M.D.C. will absorb the full effect of a GB Boom Gun? I have the Armor smith print me ten 1 M.D.C. shirts and I wear them layered with t-shirts over my armor."

From a G.M.
"A T-shirt isn't armor, and the rule only applies to armor. You have ten MDC and the shot will launch your jellied remains across 3D6 miles."

I have the armor smith print me then 1 M.D.C. armor plates which I glue in random places around my "main body" yay now I have ablative armor.

[Warshield73]

In my head-canon, there’s a limit of 10-15 MDC on that rule.

Same, my rule is 3 to 1 for the last 5 MDC so if your armor has 5 MDC left it will absorb an additional 15 MDC after zero but I also add an SDC damage to the person in the armor. I did this for a similar reason to the GB example as a guy with 3 MDC in the BR of a Medium Range Missile surviving.

[Axelmania]

I think the house rule would actually make the spell more amazing, the spell would be like adding the shield from HALO's Spartans on top of your armor.... Also, it regenerates, decreases damage, and absorbs the last bit of damage. So instead of converting the last bit over to S.D.C. this spell would negate that bit.

If you mean that removing the "last bit" rule makes the spell better: yes, that's my whole point.

I'm talking about altering it in a world where you are using the "last bit" rule from RUE, since it was written in the context of a world lacking it.

Converting to SDC is a happy medium between the old (everything carries over) and the new (nothing carries over) but it's still more surviveable, removing Invincible Armor's niche so it deserves a discount or some other benefit.

Like what if, for example, reducing MDC to 0 does not permanently destroy the armor, and isntead it will renew with 1D6 MDC each melee round until duration is over?

That way you could enjoy the 'last bit' benefit over and over.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don’t think it’s ever been officially clarified if “the last bit of armor” means “the last damage capacity for any one set of armor”
Or
“The last damage capacity in your last bit of armor.”

The latter is a more balanced interpretation, I think, as well as being closer to a more literal read of the text.

[Warshield73]

I don’t think it’s ever been officially clarified if “the last bit of armor” means “the last damage capacity for any one set of armor”
Or
“The last damage capacity in your last bit of armor.”

The latter is a more balanced interpretation, I think, as well as being closer to a more literal read of the text.

I have always interpreted it as the latter. If you are in EBA and have cyber armor, the rule only applies to cyber armor. If you have EBA with force field it applies only to the EBA not the last 5 of the force field. But if you are just wearing a force field with no armor the last 5 of the force field will do it as well. and of course it never applies to vehicles of any kind. I've been lucky since this rule came out that none of my players have really tried to abuse it.

[Axelmania]

The latter is a more balanced interpretation, I think, as well as being closer to a more literal read of the text.

On the other hand it's really really strange if environmental body armor can entirely stop all excess MD to prevent the SDC squishy from taking damage yet somehow enough damage passes through to vaporize your MDC cyber-armor.

[Killer Cyborg]

The latter is a more balanced interpretation, I think, as well as being closer to a more literal read of the text.

On the other hand it's really really strange if environmental body armor can entirely stop all excess MD to prevent the SDC squishy from taking damage yet somehow enough damage passes through to vaporize your MDC cyber-armor.

Welcome to Rifts.

[carriath]

I think the house rule would actually make the spell more amazing, the spell would be like adding the shield from HALO's Spartans on top of your armor.... Also, it regenerates, decreases damage, and absorbs the last bit of damage. So instead of converting the last bit over to S.D.C. this spell would negate that bit.

If you mean that removing the "last bit" rule makes the spell better: yes, that's my whole point.

I'm talking about altering it in a world where you are using the "last bit" rule from RUE, since it was written in the context of a world lacking it.

Converting to SDC is a happy medium between the old (everything carries over) and the new (nothing carries over) but it's still more surviveable, removing Invincible Armor's niche so it deserves a discount or some other benefit.

Like what if, for example, reducing MDC to 0 does not permanently destroy the armor, and isntead it will renew with 1D6 MDC each melee round until duration is over?

That way you could enjoy the 'last bit' benefit over and over.

I Grok that! That honestly sounds like something I would build in as a Greater version of the spell with ritual casting, and a Lesser version as described in the book. I'd also question the regeneration time, because that's where the power/fairness of the spell comes in. Regenerating armor sounds Awesome.

A friend of mine created homebrew Protoss, and I made a Dark Templar Techno-Wizard who was considered an outcast by many of his people for studying primitive technology, and arcane magic, mixing the two, and not really bothering to develop Psychic abilities or study the Khala (That was the compromise as his homebrew RCC didn't allow magic for Protoss). Anyhow, I was working on a ritual spell that would allow... hmm, I'll just post the stats. The idea being a Magic healing spell for Techno-Wizards to allow them to do what Operators do from scraps with remaining MDC (bones of my enemies and all that), by magic but with a chance of failure. Not quite regeneration... but in the same vein.

Machine Healing:
P.P.E. 40/(65 for instant cast)
Range: Touch +5 feet per level of experience
Casting Time 2D4 melee rounds/50 M.D.C , in addition the machine or M.D.C being healed, and the components must be unmoved. The instant cast heals only half of the damage, repairs that were interrupted roll under the Jury Rig skill.

This spell allows a Techno-Wizard to act as a conduit between damaged machinery and raw materials, transferring M.D.C. from broken machines with remaining M.D.C. or armor to be scrapped to the machine under repair. M.D.C. materials flow from armor scraps, or chunks of broken electronics & mechanical parts into their appropriate place on the machine. The TW must maintain contact until the process is completed, and the armor scraps crumble to dust once they have transferred all of their essence (remaining M.D.C. or components of any value.)

Instant can only transfer 1/2 of the scraps remaining value. This spell can only be used on immobile components that are damaged beyond repair but have remaining M.D.C. or components. Saving throw is as simple as moving the object, however if a machine intelligence were restrained sufficently, Saving throw 15 for Skelebots/Robots, 12 for Artificial Intelligences inhabiting a mechanical automaton. This spell does not work on magical devices.

When cast as a ritual multiple scraps and components can be placed within a magic circle, to allow the caster to transfer essence from more components than they can touch. However if the ritual is interrupted all of the components in the ring crumble to dust.

[carriath]

I don’t think it’s ever been officially clarified if “the last bit of armor” means “the last damage capacity for any one set of armor”
Or
“The last damage capacity in your last bit of armor.”

The latter is a more balanced interpretation, I think, as well as being closer to a more literal read of the text.

Solid, I Grok that interpretation as well. A lot more reasonable than what I had interpreted, the Last MDC of your Last piece of armor. It does raise a potential question for players though. Is that the last piece of any armor, or once my arm armor is depleted, and I still have MDC do I subtract it from Main Body?

I think my answer under that rule would be for each individual part, except if it is the Main Body, and the rules for that armor/Robot Vehicle states that the MDC losing the last bit of armor destroys all of the armor.

I could see using that or the last 5 can absorb 15 more on top of that as a quick easy rule. For my current group I will keep using the house rule. I will definitely work this into my future musings!