I'm hoping to write up a little something spooky for October, and have a question. Where might one find an example of ghosts that don't either start as Entities assuming another's identity, or as demons or other supernatural beings whom happen to be often intangible? I thought I remembered something from a Rifter, but other than unofficial stuff and superficially similar things like Ley Line Phantoms nothing comes to mind.
Thanks for any help!
On Ghosts
Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
Re: On Ghosts
One approach to this could be using Nightbane Between the Shadows.
We know for example when people dream they have a "dream self". Pg 128 allows an exception where they can be briefly summoned by "Summon and Control Dream Being".
Pg 110 discusses how killing "a dreamer's dream-self persona" causes them to wake up.
Pg 105 mentions a dream-self USUALLY has same alignment as dreamer.
Pg 105 also mentions how a Regular could have "a radically different alignment and personality than the original real-life dreamer". Preceding that is "if once a dream-self persona" which seems to imply that once a DSP becomes a Regular they no longer qualify as a DSP (ie killing them does not cause dreamer to wake)
Pg 96 mentions Dancers have "control over their own dream-selves".
Pg 94 talks about how Makers must first kill a Dream Self prior to using Dream Kill.
Pg 93 talks about how the Maker's "dream self" can be injured/killed and it causes them to wake using the 1st case. Also describes it "destroying a person's dream persona and causing that death to affect his physical body as well"
Pg 90 under Dream Combat mentions the lack of physical harm to body when the dream-self is killed.
It's clear compared to other personae that dream-selves have a unique relationship to a dream pool (death = wake).
Furthermore, the use of the term for Dancers/Makers makes it pretty clear that the dream-self is effectively their vehicle when using Dreamdance Minor and leaving the body behind.
In at least the cases of those two PCCs, the dream-self would not have a different alignment than them because they are controlling it directly. We might assume that for any psychic using Dreamdance Minor as well.
Pg 89's story of the Preevert being a child seems to show that sleeping dreamers have some of the flexibility of Dream Dancers (can take on alternate appearances to their current one) but in a way completely out of their control. People who enter the Dreamstream WITHOUT sleeping (psi powers, portals) seem to be forced to use their current appearance, except shapeshifting Dancers.
There also seems to be implicaiton that overcoming Dreamblindness only happens for intentional non-sleeping visitors adn that sleepers are indefinitely dreamblind unless perhaps outside interference steers them away from it.
What happens to Dream Pools upon death seems to be hidden under the Morpheomoth on pg 109:
We know however that collapsed pools do not necessarily mean what was in the pool are gone, per pg 106 note on the Living Nightmare:
This is basically what I would assume happens during death as well.
Pg 106 also notes this under the personae's Average Life Span:
there's a note further up that all "independent" regulars (presumably you must first become a Regular to become Independent) gain PPE. At first "truly independent" is 1D4 PPE but if venturing beyond pool they get the same PPE as the Dream Dancer
I don't think there is an IMMEDIATE death of dream personae. Presumably the 1D6/melee they suffer outside their pool just kills them.
86 note on Dream Storms doesn't really mention when the membrane gets ruptured, I'm kinda confused about that.
The death of a being could plausibly release not just Regulars who were previously their dream-selves (perhaps you create a new one every time you fall asleep?) but also the rest of the "cast" of the dreams, and if there were many independent ones, then they could be surviving all over the dream stream, influencing dreams, perhaps even escaping the stream into the real world!
Pg 94 "Dream Window" is one such way, though they can only exist within 300ft of the window. I'm not sure what happens i fthey try to go beyond (perhaps someone throws them) either like hitting a wall, or maybe just vanish (like when the portal closes) and presumably teleport back to wherever the window was opened in the stream?
Plus there is also the Dream Portal spell.
One thing we should keep in mind here is anyone with the Astral Projection psi power can create an "astral portal" (this also applies to the spell, presumably, which I guess has a several-minutes casting time like the psi power takes to activate?)
Pg 44's rules say "Dream travelers can enter the astral plane through dimensional portals" so if a surviving independent regular dream-self made it's way from DS>AP ...
so if they're floating around in the AP, since portals are often opened from the AP to the material plane (by astral projectors) they could use that as a means of entering the material world and existing there indefinitely as an astral creature!
remember at that point they are Dancer-equiv so they are 'travelers' themselves.
It's unclear how much of their "parent's" memories a dream-self necessarily has though. they might reflect self-perception and have isolated memories. So in many ways, while they are an alternative to entities with different stats (4D6x10 SDC for example) they could be similarly alien echos of who they used to be.
Those who aren't independent (losing 1d6/round) could explain brief whisps of afterlife which fade away unless regularly healed with magic or psi.
We know for example when people dream they have a "dream self". Pg 128 allows an exception where they can be briefly summoned by "Summon and Control Dream Being".
Pg 110 discusses how killing "a dreamer's dream-self persona" causes them to wake up.
Pg 105 mentions a dream-self USUALLY has same alignment as dreamer.
Pg 105 also mentions how a Regular could have "a radically different alignment and personality than the original real-life dreamer". Preceding that is "if once a dream-self persona" which seems to imply that once a DSP becomes a Regular they no longer qualify as a DSP (ie killing them does not cause dreamer to wake)
Pg 96 mentions Dancers have "control over their own dream-selves".
Pg 94 talks about how Makers must first kill a Dream Self prior to using Dream Kill.
Pg 93 talks about how the Maker's "dream self" can be injured/killed and it causes them to wake using the 1st case. Also describes it "destroying a person's dream persona and causing that death to affect his physical body as well"
Pg 90 under Dream Combat mentions the lack of physical harm to body when the dream-self is killed.
It's clear compared to other personae that dream-selves have a unique relationship to a dream pool (death = wake).
Furthermore, the use of the term for Dancers/Makers makes it pretty clear that the dream-self is effectively their vehicle when using Dreamdance Minor and leaving the body behind.
In at least the cases of those two PCCs, the dream-self would not have a different alignment than them because they are controlling it directly. We might assume that for any psychic using Dreamdance Minor as well.
Pg 89's story of the Preevert being a child seems to show that sleeping dreamers have some of the flexibility of Dream Dancers (can take on alternate appearances to their current one) but in a way completely out of their control. People who enter the Dreamstream WITHOUT sleeping (psi powers, portals) seem to be forced to use their current appearance, except shapeshifting Dancers.
There also seems to be implicaiton that overcoming Dreamblindness only happens for intentional non-sleeping visitors adn that sleepers are indefinitely dreamblind unless perhaps outside interference steers them away from it.
What happens to Dream Pools upon death seems to be hidden under the Morpheomoth on pg 109:
After the victim dies a horrible death, the Morpheomoth escapes the Dream Pool, which collapses as soon as the dreamer perishes.
We know however that collapsed pools do not necessarily mean what was in the pool are gone, per pg 106 note on the Living Nightmare:
some Dream Pools are momentarily "ruptured," and any personas in them are swept away in the storm. In most cases, they all quickly fade away
This is basically what I would assume happens during death as well.
Pg 106 also notes this under the personae's Average Life Span:
when the dreamer dies, all his or her personas die with him. The only exceptions are those few who become independent,
there's a note further up that all "independent" regulars (presumably you must first become a Regular to become Independent) gain PPE. At first "truly independent" is 1D4 PPE but if venturing beyond pool they get the same PPE as the Dream Dancer
I don't think there is an IMMEDIATE death of dream personae. Presumably the 1D6/melee they suffer outside their pool just kills them.
86 note on Dream Storms doesn't really mention when the membrane gets ruptured, I'm kinda confused about that.
The death of a being could plausibly release not just Regulars who were previously their dream-selves (perhaps you create a new one every time you fall asleep?) but also the rest of the "cast" of the dreams, and if there were many independent ones, then they could be surviving all over the dream stream, influencing dreams, perhaps even escaping the stream into the real world!
Pg 94 "Dream Window" is one such way, though they can only exist within 300ft of the window. I'm not sure what happens i fthey try to go beyond (perhaps someone throws them) either like hitting a wall, or maybe just vanish (like when the portal closes) and presumably teleport back to wherever the window was opened in the stream?
Plus there is also the Dream Portal spell.
One thing we should keep in mind here is anyone with the Astral Projection psi power can create an "astral portal" (this also applies to the spell, presumably, which I guess has a several-minutes casting time like the psi power takes to activate?)
Pg 44's rules say "Dream travelers can enter the astral plane through dimensional portals" so if a surviving independent regular dream-self made it's way from DS>AP ...
so if they're floating around in the AP, since portals are often opened from the AP to the material plane (by astral projectors) they could use that as a means of entering the material world and existing there indefinitely as an astral creature!
remember at that point they are Dancer-equiv so they are 'travelers' themselves.
It's unclear how much of their "parent's" memories a dream-self necessarily has though. they might reflect self-perception and have isolated memories. So in many ways, while they are an alternative to entities with different stats (4D6x10 SDC for example) they could be similarly alien echos of who they used to be.
Those who aren't independent (losing 1d6/round) could explain brief whisps of afterlife which fade away unless regularly healed with magic or psi.
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Curbludgeon
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Re: On Ghosts
I hadn't really considered independent Dream Personae as a way to handle ghost-style beings, but that approach definitely has some things going for it!
The NB spell The Druid's Head seems like a good example of the sort of thing I'm poking around for, being absent of claims requiring recourse to entities. I don't believe any of the less broadly disseminated ghostly critters (like those in Rifts Dinosaur Swamp and China) can say the same. The desire to compile exhaustive lists comes in waves, so maybe this will get on the weekend's docket. One thing I'd like to search out in particular are references to fragmentary spirits diffused throughout an area such as found in the Yucatan and the mists surrounding China in Rifts, as source material for an alternate solar system space setting.
The NB spell The Druid's Head seems like a good example of the sort of thing I'm poking around for, being absent of claims requiring recourse to entities. I don't believe any of the less broadly disseminated ghostly critters (like those in Rifts Dinosaur Swamp and China) can say the same. The desire to compile exhaustive lists comes in waves, so maybe this will get on the weekend's docket. One thing I'd like to search out in particular are references to fragmentary spirits diffused throughout an area such as found in the Yucatan and the mists surrounding China in Rifts, as source material for an alternate solar system space setting.