So I was having a recent RIFTS related conversation, and the topic of having a ridiculously high Intelligence came up... And, well, what benefit is their to having a high (or any) Intelligence?
Sure, you get an initial skill boost during character creation... But skills are already supposed to be high/wide considering how the megaversal system frontloads characters. So I ask, besides the initial skill boost, what other benefits can be attributed to a high Intelligence?
Additionally, how could I go about building a character with the highest possible intelligence?
What are some items, bionic, weapons, magic, skills, R/P/OCCs, and races that either utilities/benefit from (or raise) a characters Intelligence?
High Intelligence Build Question(s)
Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
Build Items
Edit Section: will post ideas either discussed here or elsewhere, along with my own research into the subject.
Mutation: Insatiable Desire to Learn (Source: Lone Star) - pick skills which are restricted or otherwise unavailable to your class (benefits from a high IQ).
Race: based on human average of 3D6 (so it most be higher than a 9)
A’rac 9+8
Drizzit 6+10
Mutation: Insatiable Desire to Learn (Source: Lone Star) - pick skills which are restricted or otherwise unavailable to your class (benefits from a high IQ).
Race: based on human average of 3D6 (so it most be higher than a 9)
A’rac 9+8
Drizzit 6+10
Re: High Intelligence Build Question(s)
Sohisohi wrote:So I was having a recent RIFTS related conversation, and the topic of having a ridiculously high Intelligence came up... And, well, what benefit is their to having a high (or any) Intelligence?
Sure, you get an initial skill boost during character creation... But skills are already supposed to be high/wide considering how the megaversal system frontloads characters. So I ask, besides the initial skill boost, what other benefits can be attributed to a high Intelligence?
Additionally, how could I go about building a character with the highest possible intelligence?
What are some items, bionic, weapons, magic, skills, R/P/OCCs, and races that either utilities/benefit from (or raise) a characters Intelligence?
I believe that the skill bonus, Perception bonus, and Save vs Illusions bonus (RUE p284) are the only benefits from a high IQ, and it's usually only at the start of the game, but any time you qualify for a greater bonus, you should be able to claim the difference between the two, bringing you up to that higher bonus. That's not something that happens frequently in Rifts as it does in games by other publishers, but it can still happen through skill choices later on, or if the GM makes magic items that grant enhancements, or random rift mutations, mutations from genesplicers, etc.
IIRC, there was something in Heroes Unlimited, something like "Super genius" or something along those lines that removed the skill 98% cap, but that might have been a power or a class feature, I don't remember which. Then again, it might have been in Ninjas & super spies...
May The Force be with you always.
Torrey
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Curbludgeon
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Re: High Intelligence Build Question(s)
(Edit: OK, this is getting fun. A transdimensional Nexus born mutant Hominid BTS2 Genius living in Outcast Station gets over 100)
It's worth acknowledging that I.Q. over 30 generally doesn't give additional bonuses. A couple of books give exceptions for things like gods and aliens. I say maybe it's a mistake to try to set limits on the Hypermind in case it wants to make of you an example.
Powers Unlimited 2 has the Natural Genius, which grants a 1d6+6 bonus and allows skills to go over 98% solely to offset potential penalties; i.e. there's still a 2% chance of failure. Several other power categories start with a 1d6 bonus and allow use of super powers. There are lots of ways to get bonuses and I'll start poking around here and editing this post, but my initial guess is a super powered custom alien modified by a Gene-Tech/Splicer and topped off with a murdered god will win out.
Species
Star Hunter 2d6+11
Super Powers
Spells
Soul Mind Up to +10 upon the sacrifice of a deific level being (meaning stronger than Godling)
Modifications
Nightbane
Ancient Nightbane: +1 Fame Focused +1 Seeks Justice and Harmony +1d4
Morphus: Mythical Creature: Sphinx +1d4
Superbeing: Super-Brain +2d4+4 Gadgeteer +1d4
Aquatic:Dolphin/Whale: Full Cetacean +1d4
Disproportionate Head:Large Head +1d4
Extraterrestrial: Roswell Gray +1d4
Victim: Broken Body +1d4
Multiple +2 options to fill out any remaining Morphus slots
Talent: Beyond the Call +12
It's worth acknowledging that I.Q. over 30 generally doesn't give additional bonuses. A couple of books give exceptions for things like gods and aliens. I say maybe it's a mistake to try to set limits on the Hypermind in case it wants to make of you an example.
Powers Unlimited 2 has the Natural Genius, which grants a 1d6+6 bonus and allows skills to go over 98% solely to offset potential penalties; i.e. there's still a 2% chance of failure. Several other power categories start with a 1d6 bonus and allow use of super powers. There are lots of ways to get bonuses and I'll start poking around here and editing this post, but my initial guess is a super powered custom alien modified by a Gene-Tech/Splicer and topped off with a murdered god will win out.
Species
Star Hunter 2d6+11
Super Powers
Spells
Soul Mind Up to +10 upon the sacrifice of a deific level being (meaning stronger than Godling)
Modifications
Nightbane
Ancient Nightbane: +1 Fame Focused +1 Seeks Justice and Harmony +1d4
Morphus: Mythical Creature: Sphinx +1d4
Superbeing: Super-Brain +2d4+4 Gadgeteer +1d4
Aquatic:Dolphin/Whale: Full Cetacean +1d4
Disproportionate Head:Large Head +1d4
Extraterrestrial: Roswell Gray +1d4
Victim: Broken Body +1d4
Multiple +2 options to fill out any remaining Morphus slots
Talent: Beyond the Call +12
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Killer Cyborg
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Re: High Intelligence Build Question(s)
Mutant Hominids from Transdimensional TMNT are the way to go.
Use the TMNT Adventures rules for mutant animals getting super powers for an extra 50 Bio-E, and get the 0 point Animal Abilities.
Shrink your size to 1.
Spend ALL bio-e on extra intelligence.
You should be able to get 98% on most skills at first level.
And there’s the possibly official rule that when attempting a skill you don’t have, you roll percentile dice vs the most appropriate attribute.
So the higher your IQ, the better your default number when attempting checks for Intelligence skills you don’t even have.
Use the TMNT Adventures rules for mutant animals getting super powers for an extra 50 Bio-E, and get the 0 point Animal Abilities.
Shrink your size to 1.
Spend ALL bio-e on extra intelligence.
You should be able to get 98% on most skills at first level.
And there’s the possibly official rule that when attempting a skill you don’t have, you roll percentile dice vs the most appropriate attribute.
So the higher your IQ, the better your default number when attempting checks for Intelligence skills you don’t even have.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
Re: High Intelligence Build Question(s)
And don't forget the Mental Skills from The Rifter #19 p 37-43, one of my favorite Rifters for all the new skills, mental and physical.
Memorization/Study Skills
Philosophy
Reading/Literary Studies
Riddles & Logic Puzzles
Strategy Games
And if you use the new bonuses for existing skills, Mathematics, Advanced also grants an IQ bonus.
In the end, it's not much, only a +7 to IQ if you take all those skills, but if you're already way up there, it might be worth it.
Memorization/Study Skills
Philosophy
Reading/Literary Studies
Riddles & Logic Puzzles
Strategy Games
And if you use the new bonuses for existing skills, Mathematics, Advanced also grants an IQ bonus.
In the end, it's not much, only a +7 to IQ if you take all those skills, but if you're already way up there, it might be worth it.
May The Force be with you always.
Torrey
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Curbludgeon
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Re: High Intelligence Build Question(s)
I have a couple of questions for while I organize my notes so I might detail the highest score possible in various categories.
1. Am I right in thinking there aren't definitive rules for how attribute dice pools may explode, with the exception of for an unmodified 3d6 roll? I saw the FAQ entry where 3d6+X attributes explode for potentially 2 dice to a maximum of 30 before applying the flat mod, but that leads to silly edge cases such as a Genius Mastermind from Land of the Damned 1's choice between 5d6 and 3d6+12 becoming important. I've been searching under the assumption that the ceiling from an initial roll is 30, save for the few (4-5, plus ~6 not "official") cases with a potentially higher initial attribute. This doesn't affect any of the absolute highest figures, but it comes up in categories like highest IQ for a supernatural being.
2. Where is the rule Killer Cyborg mentioned about rolling percentile dice when a character doesn't have a skill?
3. There seem to be only a handful of magic items that increase I.Q., and I'm unsure if a Palladium Fantasy book mentions if they are allowed to stack. The best example is in PFRPG8:The Western Empire. Can the "Thinking Cap" on page 116 provide its bonus at the same time as an Attribute Booster Ring from pages 159-160? The other "official" non-temporary I.Q. boosting items are the Skull of Osiris from WB4:Africa page 49 and the Crown of Timiro from Rifter 63 page 28. While three of those things go on the face/head, Palladium doesn't really have item slot rules, so could the reigning monarch of Timiro benefit simultaneously from all four items? Before you dismiss a hat on a hat, consider the Pschent.
4. Is there some easy way to give a character several hundred I.S.P.? The not "official" Vulbund O.C.C. from Rifter 51 pages 56-57 can burn 4 I.S.P. to increase I.Q. by 2. After adding a Psionic Actuator and Nano Amplifiers, it would only take a couple of hundred more I.S.P. for that to be the base of the anything goes category.
The highest single setting official only total I have so far is for a PU2 Mental Giant Psychic Human Gestalt made up of five members, each of which during the course of play received AUGG maximum tweaked superhuman attributes to their separately augmented brains. If the gestalt being is able to be devoured by a Erishik from AUr, the doppleganger would gain an I.Q. of 172. Opening it to Rifts stuff allows multiple ways to get the score up to the I.Q. 235 needed for a 98% bonus to all skills. The mutant hominid that got stranded on Outcast Station in Rifts Orbit is the basis for the highest non-gestalt I.Q., but that requires an expanded animal selection on a table or two.
1. Am I right in thinking there aren't definitive rules for how attribute dice pools may explode, with the exception of for an unmodified 3d6 roll? I saw the FAQ entry where 3d6+X attributes explode for potentially 2 dice to a maximum of 30 before applying the flat mod, but that leads to silly edge cases such as a Genius Mastermind from Land of the Damned 1's choice between 5d6 and 3d6+12 becoming important. I've been searching under the assumption that the ceiling from an initial roll is 30, save for the few (4-5, plus ~6 not "official") cases with a potentially higher initial attribute. This doesn't affect any of the absolute highest figures, but it comes up in categories like highest IQ for a supernatural being.
2. Where is the rule Killer Cyborg mentioned about rolling percentile dice when a character doesn't have a skill?
3. There seem to be only a handful of magic items that increase I.Q., and I'm unsure if a Palladium Fantasy book mentions if they are allowed to stack. The best example is in PFRPG8:The Western Empire. Can the "Thinking Cap" on page 116 provide its bonus at the same time as an Attribute Booster Ring from pages 159-160? The other "official" non-temporary I.Q. boosting items are the Skull of Osiris from WB4:Africa page 49 and the Crown of Timiro from Rifter 63 page 28. While three of those things go on the face/head, Palladium doesn't really have item slot rules, so could the reigning monarch of Timiro benefit simultaneously from all four items? Before you dismiss a hat on a hat, consider the Pschent.
4. Is there some easy way to give a character several hundred I.S.P.? The not "official" Vulbund O.C.C. from Rifter 51 pages 56-57 can burn 4 I.S.P. to increase I.Q. by 2. After adding a Psionic Actuator and Nano Amplifiers, it would only take a couple of hundred more I.S.P. for that to be the base of the anything goes category.
The highest single setting official only total I have so far is for a PU2 Mental Giant Psychic Human Gestalt made up of five members, each of which during the course of play received AUGG maximum tweaked superhuman attributes to their separately augmented brains. If the gestalt being is able to be devoured by a Erishik from AUr, the doppleganger would gain an I.Q. of 172. Opening it to Rifts stuff allows multiple ways to get the score up to the I.Q. 235 needed for a 98% bonus to all skills. The mutant hominid that got stranded on Outcast Station in Rifts Orbit is the basis for the highest non-gestalt I.Q., but that requires an expanded animal selection on a table or two.
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Killer Cyborg
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Re: High Intelligence Build Question(s)
Curbludgeon wrote:2. Where is the rule Killer Cyborg mentioned about rolling percentile dice when a character doesn't have a skill?
Well, that's the thing; it doesn't seem to be anywhere.
It's an answer by Palladium staff from online, probably in the old archives for this site or something.
I don't think it's in any book, and I'm not sure if it's in the old or new FAQ.
So it's quasi-official at best, and that's only IF people want to either trust my word on this, OR can find the original exchange where this answer was handed down.
BUT even if it isn't an official rule, it's one that makes a heck of a lot of sense mechanically.
The average person would have a 10% chance of successfully defaulting a skill check, and that's pretty darned reasonable considering how many skills start at 20-35% proficiency. That seems like a pretty good ratio to me!
Any situational bonuses or penalties might make that a real chance, or negate it entirely.
It also makes attributes much more potentially useful mechanically, which reduces some of the "attributes under 18 don't matter" issues some people complain about. Suddenly a 14 PP is better than a 10 PP, because it nearly doubles an unskilled person's chance to successfully Prowl, or Pick Pockets, or any number of other things.
And it gets rid of the "people without a Math skill can't even count" issues that some people think exists.
The only real potentials for abuse would be:
-if a GM is overly permissive, allowing a character without even First Aid skills to attempt complex brain surgery with some reasonable chance of success... but again, situational modifiers should probably negate that kind or thing, or actually create a situation where it's kind of realistic (computer help, having a skilled surgeon talk you through it, and anything else somebody might think of)
-Situations of rules abuse like we're already talking about here, where a character ends up with attributes that are incredibly high. So, again, overly permissive GM (or one that wants to run an overpowered campaign or something).
And, really, a character with an Intelligence attribute of 90 would have a real-world IQ of 900.
I think it's entirely reasonable for them to be able to default the hell out of almost any skill. That's an insane amount of brain power!!
The highest recorded real-world human IQ is something like 210, an in-game equivalent of INT 21.
So even with characters who have an IQ of 20-30... yeah, they should be able to default a lot of stuff really well. That's still "smartest humans who ever lived" kind of smarts.
It's actually one of the best and slickest Palladium rules I've seen.
If it's NOT official, it should be.
(Which doesn't mean a darned thing as to whether or not it IS official, of course)
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell
Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
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Curbludgeon
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Re: High Intelligence Build Question(s)
Species or Type of Being*CC/Power CategoryAdditional Training/Occupation/Rites/SkillsItems/Drugs/PotionsSpells/Super Powers
Procedures/Miscellaneous
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Father Goose
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Re: High Intelligence Build Question(s)
Curbludgeon wrote:Species or Type of Being*CC/Power CategorySpoiler:Additional Training/Occupation/Rites/SkillsSpoiler:Items/Drugs/PotionsSpoiler:Spells/Super PowersSpoiler:Procedures/MiscellaneousSpoiler:Spoiler:
Wow! You're like a database search engine!
taalismn wrote:Hey, you came up with a novel, attention-getting idea, you did the legwork, you worked it through, you made it fit the setting, even though initial thought might be 'nah, it can't work, it's too silly/stupid/lame', and you posted something that only required a little adjustment, yet can be added to, without diluting its original concept. How can we not give you due support and credit?
well damn
I'll be looking these over and moving them into the second post, you'll have to pardon the wait on my part (or don't, lol).
Edit: I was supposed to take advantage of the break to look up how Bio-E works, since that looks like the best route for stacking the most IQ.
Edit: I was supposed to take advantage of the break to look up how Bio-E works, since that looks like the best route for stacking the most IQ.