How much Money is enough or too much

[Nuristas]

Greetings,

In the Three Galaxies, money takes on a whole new dimension when you look at players who want their own spaceship or who want to get something going.
As soon as you hit space and want to dream of a special ship, you quickly look at a price of hundreds of millions, if not billions of credits.

How is this handled in your games? Are there players who have accounts with on them hundreds of millions? Are any of them trying to become the new Traxus and aspiring to have Quadrillions in assets and would you let them work towards that?

[Father Goose]

Greetings,

In the Three Galaxies, money takes on a whole new dimension when you look at players who want their own spaceship or who want to get something going.
As soon as you hit space and want to dream of a special ship, you quickly look at a price of hundreds of millions, if not billions of credits.

How is this handled in your games? Are there players who have accounts with on them hundreds of millions? Are any of them trying to become the new Traxus and aspiring to have Quadrillions in assets and would you let them work towards that?

I find tracking that kind of money to be overwhelming, so if I'm running a space campaign, I make the ship acquisition a part of the plot, not a function of available funds. Perhaps the group starts with a modest ship, or they are granted one by a benefactor, etc. I haven't run much in the way of space campaigns yet, so I haven't run into the issue of the group wanting to upgrade to something fancy, but I'd handle that the same way. Make it part of the story to acquire it, rather than buy it outright with cash.
However, I too am curious what others have done/would do.

[Nuristas]

Greetings,

In the Three Galaxies, money takes on a whole new dimension when you look at players who want their own spaceship or who want to get something going.
As soon as you hit space and want to dream of a special ship, you quickly look at a price of hundreds of millions, if not billions of credits.

How is this handled in your games? Are there players who have accounts with on them hundreds of millions? Are any of them trying to become the new Traxus and aspiring to have Quadrillions in assets and would you let them work towards that?

I find tracking that kind of money to be overwhelming, so if I'm running a space campaign, I make the ship acquisition a part of the plot, not a function of available funds. Perhaps the group starts with a modest ship, or they are granted one by a benefactor, etc. I haven't run much in the way of space campaigns yet, so I haven't run into the issue of the group wanting to upgrade to something fancy, but I'd handle that the same way. Make it part of the story to acquire it, rather than buy it outright with cash.
However, I too am curious what others have done/would do.

I totally get that. In the campaign we are in, we are doing the tracking thing and it is indeed a bit of work. Just like you, I am curious how others do it or have done it. Time will tell.

[drewkitty ~..~]

In a space based campaign I would let the team have a ship. Just so they don't get stuck traveling economy or buisness class. Cause you know there is going to be some sort of "random encounter' while in transit at some time or another.


Whether the ship is made through he simplistic point tables that rifts use, or the credits/internal space based ship construction tables in AU:GG (a HU soucrebook) it doesn't matter too much. Yes, with the HU tables you will probably want to swap in a Contra-Grav drive. (Or ask the person that has translated Contra-grav drives to the HU format. See DK for this.)

[Warshield73]

This is not a new problem if you play Rifts. Characters with large combat robots can cost tens of millions and repair and rearming them can also be expensive. For me I never had trouble with large amoutns of money. My players were usually honest and I kept a master list of money and equipment to not have a major issues. These days with spreadsheets that you can share and see changes over time it's just too easy to keep track of even massive amounts of money. Keeping track of trade items is actually much harder.

In Phase World money is a big deal not just for purchase of the ship but for supplies, munitions, and repairs. Each PW group I have run end up running the ship like partnership with it having it's own account and PCs getting money from it every now and then.

As for the ship, I have never had players buy a new ship they always find one in the first couple of adventures and then when it gets destroyed a new one is found. They do need lots of money to repair, rearm, and modify the ships but again I just think it is better when they find it.

Now, I do survey players before the game in session zero to see what kinds of ships the group likes. I mean if everyone hates the "loveable" rust bucket like Serenity and Galactica then I'm probably going to go with something shiny and new but unfinished so they have something to work on.

[Nuristas]

This is not a new problem if you play Rifts. Characters with large combat robots can cost tens of millions and repair and rearming them can also be expensive. For me I never had trouble with large amoutns of money. My players were usually honest and I kept a master list of money and equipment to not have a major issues. These days with spreadsheets that you can share and see changes over time it's just too easy to keep track of even massive amounts of money. Keeping track of trade items is actually much harder.

In Phase World money is a big deal not just for purchase of the ship but for supplies, munitions, and repairs. Each PW group I have run end up running the ship like partnership with it having it's own account and PCs getting money from it every now and then.

As for the ship, I have never had players buy a new ship they always find one in the first couple of adventures and then when it gets destroyed a new one is found. They do need lots of money to repair, rearm, and modify the ships but again I just think it is better when they find it.

Now, I do survey players before the game in session zero to see what kinds of ships the group likes. I mean if everyone hates the "loveable" rust bucket like Serenity and Galactica then I'm probably going to go with something shiny and new but unfinished so they have something to work on.

Hello Warshield,

We have all our sheets on google drive and the DM has access to all of them. Rolls for money or even for income of investments is done in an online diceroller so that everybody can see the result and what was rolled. It is very easy to track it all with minimal effort and repairing a ship, can indeed be wickedly expensive. But it gives you something to work for/towards.

I must say that once you use this method keeping track of trade goods and valuables also becomes a lot easier since most of the heavy lifting is done by a spreadsheet and not by the GM/Player who just changes numbers.

According to me, we aren't going to become filthy rich anytime soon, but we're well on our way to be very comfortable thanks to adventuring, unless something goes wrong

[Nuristas]

In a space based campaign I would let the team have a ship. Just so they don't get stuck traveling economy or buisness class. Cause you know there is going to be some sort of "random encounter' while in transit at some time or another.


Whether the ship is made through he simplistic point tables that rifts use, or the credits/internal space based ship construction tables in AU:GG (a HU soucrebook) it doesn't matter too much. Yes, with the HU tables you will probably want to swap in a Contra-Grav drive. (Or ask the person that has translated Contra-grav drives to the HU format. See DK for this.)

Hello DrewKitty,

And how would you handle the repair costs? How would you track the money of players since in the three Galaxies, everything costs a lot of money. Or are you only using a barter system?
I'm always curious how "money/riches" are being tracked when you need millions or billions to achieve some goals.

[drewkitty ~..~]

funny word association thought: Splugorth Express.

Real answer: Spreadsheet. And remember to get paid in amounts that cover costs.
----
Repairs...'of the top of the head' 1000 credits per xDC being repaired. Thou costs may be more in higher in cost of living places.

[Warshield73]

This is not a new problem if you play Rifts. Characters with large combat robots can cost tens of millions and repair and rearming them can also be expensive. For me I never had trouble with large amoutns of money. My players were usually honest and I kept a master list of money and equipment to not have a major issues. These days with spreadsheets that you can share and see changes over time it's just too easy to keep track of even massive amounts of money. Keeping track of trade items is actually much harder.

In Phase World money is a big deal not just for purchase of the ship but for supplies, munitions, and repairs. Each PW group I have run end up running the ship like partnership with it having it's own account and PCs getting money from it every now and then.

As for the ship, I have never had players buy a new ship they always find one in the first couple of adventures and then when it gets destroyed a new one is found. They do need lots of money to repair, rearm, and modify the ships but again I just think it is better when they find it.

Now, I do survey players before the game in session zero to see what kinds of ships the group likes. I mean if everyone hates the "loveable" rust bucket like Serenity and Galactica then I'm probably going to go with something shiny and new but unfinished so they have something to work on.

Hello Warshield,

We have all our sheets on google drive and the DM has access to all of them. Rolls for money or even for income of investments is done in an online diceroller so that everybody can see the result and what was rolled. It is very easy to track it all with minimal effort and repairing a ship, can indeed be wickedly expensive. But it gives you something to work for/towards.

If I was running a group now this is absolutely how I would do it. I would set it up so that I could see changes and just run it from there. When my original group started none of us even had email and when we finished we had a private forum and an online file share so technology definitely helps this aspect of the game.

I got better about the expenses in Rifts and Phase World after I started playing Video Game RPGs like KOTOR or later Mass Effect. When the players encounter the ancient derelict ship in space yes there is a horrible monster onboard but I also put a few things that they can salvage and sell so they can afford the upgrades to the ship. I also try to balance the adventures. If I run a brutal, monster filled, damage fest that cost them millions then a few games later I run a fun run and gun sort of game were if the players do it right they can make millions.

The great thing in any pen and paper game is that you can balance anything with story. You go to a shipyard and want a new shield generator installed but can't afford it hey maybe the manager of the station need a dangerous cargo picked up and brought back. Just because they don't have the cash doesn't mean they can't get the ship or get it repaired.

I must say that once you use this method keeping track of trade goods and valuables also becomes a lot easier since most of the heavy lifting is done by a spreadsheet and not by the GM/Player who just changes numbers.

I agree. All I was saying is that it is more work than just numbers as you have to write out descriptions and keep track of value. You also have to keep track of cargo space, you can't have 12 tons of trade goods in a 4 ton hold. It's not hard by any stretch just more work.

According to me, we aren't going to become filthy rich anytime soon, but we're well on our way to be very comfortable thanks to adventuring, unless something goes wrong

I think terms like filthy rich have to be kept in relative terms. If you PCs goal is to make enough money to retire to a core world 10 to 15 million is more than enough. Much like having 10 to 15 million in our world you will be very comfortable for a 200 year life. If you want to travel the three galaxies in a combat capable ship 15 million might as well be dead broke.

A few other things I thought of after my first post:

How much is too much? In Phase World nothing really. If you keep all your money on your ship and it is destroyed you loose everything. If you keep most of your money in accounts in places like Phase World then there are lots places you can travel that you can't access that money.

My players always did a mix with most money in accounts on Phase World that could be accessed through banking system in "civilized" areas and then large amounts in some form of hard currency and trade goods on the ship for when they are outside areas they can access the bank accounts.

[Nuristas]

This is not a new problem if you play Rifts. Characters with large combat robots can cost tens of millions and repair and rearming them can also be expensive. For me I never had trouble with large amoutns of money. My players were usually honest and I kept a master list of money and equipment to not have a major issues. These days with spreadsheets that you can share and see changes over time it's just too easy to keep track of even massive amounts of money. Keeping track of trade items is actually much harder.

In Phase World money is a big deal not just for purchase of the ship but for supplies, munitions, and repairs. Each PW group I have run end up running the ship like partnership with it having it's own account and PCs getting money from it every now and then.

As for the ship, I have never had players buy a new ship they always find one in the first couple of adventures and then when it gets destroyed a new one is found. They do need lots of money to repair, rearm, and modify the ships but again I just think it is better when they find it.

Now, I do survey players before the game in session zero to see what kinds of ships the group likes. I mean if everyone hates the "loveable" rust bucket like Serenity and Galactica then I'm probably going to go with something shiny and new but unfinished so they have something to work on.

Hello Warshield,

We have all our sheets on google drive and the DM has access to all of them. Rolls for money or even for income of investments is done in an online diceroller so that everybody can see the result and what was rolled. It is very easy to track it all with minimal effort and repairing a ship, can indeed be wickedly expensive. But it gives you something to work for/towards.

If I was running a group now this is absolutely how I would do it. I would set it up so that I could see changes and just run it from there. When my original group started none of us even had email and when we finished we had a private forum and an online file share so technology definitely helps this aspect of the game.

I got better about the expenses in Rifts and Phase World after I started playing Video Game RPGs like KOTOR or later Mass Effect. When the players encounter the ancient derelict ship in space yes there is a horrible monster onboard but I also put a few things that they can salvage and sell so they can afford the upgrades to the ship. I also try to balance the adventures. If I run a brutal, monster filled, damage fest that cost them millions then a few games later I run a fun run and gun sort of game were if the players do it right they can make millions.

The great thing in any pen and paper game is that you can balance anything with story. You go to a shipyard and want a new shield generator installed but can't afford it hey maybe the manager of the station need a dangerous cargo picked up and brought back. Just because they don't have the cash doesn't mean they can't get the ship or get it repaired.

I must say that once you use this method keeping track of trade goods and valuables also becomes a lot easier since most of the heavy lifting is done by a spreadsheet and not by the GM/Player who just changes numbers.

I agree. All I was saying is that it is more work than just numbers as you have to write out descriptions and keep track of value. You also have to keep track of cargo space, you can't have 12 tons of trade goods in a 4 ton hold. It's not hard by any stretch just more work.

According to me, we aren't going to become filthy rich anytime soon, but we're well on our way to be very comfortable thanks to adventuring, unless something goes wrong

I think terms like filthy rich have to be kept in relative terms. If you PCs goal is to make enough money to retire to a core world 10 to 15 million is more than enough. Much like having 10 to 15 million in our world you will be very comfortable for a 200 year life. If you want to travel the three galaxies in a combat capable ship 15 million might as well be dead broke.

A few other things I thought of after my first post:

How much is too much? In Phase World nothing really. If you keep all your money on your ship and it is destroyed you loose everything. If you keep most of your money in accounts in places like Phase World then there are lots places you can travel that you can't access that money.

My players always did a mix with most money in accounts on Phase World that could be accessed through banking system in "civilized" areas and then large amounts in some form of hard currency and trade goods on the ship for when they are outside areas they can access the bank accounts.

I can actually totally relate to that. At the moment we are working from bank accounts, some of them on Earth, some on Phase World. It means that we have a rather "easy" time getting money to the location we need it, except when of course you need it an realize that the people you are bartering with only take trade items. I'm pretty sure we've had to fly a few hundred light years a few times due to... forgetting trade items or not knowing what to get. It is great fun when something which is worthless a few solar systems further up, is suddenly priceless and you don't have any of it on hand.

I think that one of our players has as a goal to become a trillionaire, ever since she read that Traxus was a quadrillionaire, she wanted to be a trillionaire and is well on her way towards said goal (is already a multi-billionaire) even if I'm pretty sure it will take her a lot of sessions to get there. It helps that even when she is "rich" she avoids paying for anything if she can and is as stingy as... Ebenezer Scrooge... Which has caused some great RP moments and discussions, so all good.

[Warshield73]

I can actually totally relate to that. At the moment we are working from bank accounts, some of them on Earth, some on Phase World. It means that we have a rather "easy" time getting money to the location we need it, except when of course you need it an realize that the people you are bartering with only take trade items. I'm pretty sure we've had to fly a few hundred light years a few times due to... forgetting trade items or not knowing what to get. It is great fun when something which is worthless a few solar systems further up, is suddenly priceless and you don't have any of it on hand.

I think that one of our players has as a goal to become a trillionaire, ever since she read that Traxus was a quadrillionaire, she wanted to be a trillionaire and is well on her way towards said goal (is already a multi-billionaire) even if I'm pretty sure it will take her a lot of sessions to get there.

I've never had a player really go after wealth itself. They were more interested in equipment, magic, ship upgrades, even henchmen/minions/crew. Several of my players, and this was especially true after we all got email after college, started creating little supply drops of armor, weapons, money, even a vehicle in new towns or places after a visit.

Another group could have easily become billionaires but they sank money into searches for magic items, lost spells, and research into new technology or recovering alien tech. Anything that gave them an edge. I love it when players do this because I just send bigger badies at them.

It helps that even when she is "rich" she avoids paying for anything if she can and is as stingy as... Ebenezer Scrooge... Which has caused some great RP moments and discussions, so all good.

I'm confused, isn't this how rich people become rich? Not paying for things like employees or taxes. Sorry I just spent an hour on the phone with a friend who works for Amazon just 3 days after talking to a friend who used to work for Disney so my opinion of the rich is just below that of AOC's.

[Astral Pantheon]

The "Money" Asteroid

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/15/65/7215653fe3efc79cc60afbd3679cde8e.jpg
16 Psyche Asteroid on Pinterest [Inspiration]

16 Psyche Asteroid on NYpost.com https://nypost.com/2020/10/28/nasa-finds-rare-metal-asteroid-worth-10000-quadrillion/ By Yaron Steinbuch

16 Psyche Asteroid = worth 10000 Quadrillion dollars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I65RyhLTso By Start Thinking on Youtube.

Some say it is with 700 and others say up to 10000 Quadrillion dollars.

---If you had $700 quintillion that is enough to give everyone on the planet Earth $93 billion Dollars!!---

That should be just about enough money

[Warshield73]

The "Money" Asteroid

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/15/65/7215653fe3efc79cc60afbd3679cde8e.jpg
16 Psyche Asteroid on Pinterest [Inspiration]

16 Psyche Asteroid on NYpost.com https://nypost.com/2020/10/28/nasa-finds-rare-metal-asteroid-worth-10000-quadrillion/ By Yaron Steinbuch

16 Psyche Asteroid = worth 10000 Quadrillion dollars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I65RyhLTso By Start Thinking on Youtube.

Some say it is with 700 and others say up to 10000 Quadrillion dollars.

---If you had $700 quintillion that is enough to give everyone on the planet Earth $93 billion Dollars!!---

That should be just about enough money

For most people in the Megaverse absolutely. Not nearly enough for Bezos or Musk.

Also keep in mind that capitalist economics are built on scarcity so the second the resources from an asteroid like this are available that 700 Quadrillion in resources probably drops to the billions while the value of every mine on Earth drops to thousands or just hundreds of dollars.

As far as Phase World goes asteroids like this are the reason that I believe there would be very little resource extraction on large planets and almost none on livable planets unless it was a resource that for some reason is not found in space. It also makes me wonder what mineral resources in the 3Gs are worth. It has to be enough to make it worth actually getting the stuff but with FTL travel how scarce can most minerals be?

I am also wondering if anyone has had PCs try to use this as a money making venture. One of my PCs who went between 3G and Rifts Earth one of his biggest sellers was silver. I had it as dirt cheap in 3Gs but of course it is more valuable on Rifts Earth especially in the American Southwest. Do player groups with ships actual do a little mining or prospecting to earn extra money?

[drewkitty ~..~]

The "Money" Asteroid

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/15/65/7215653fe3efc79cc60afbd3679cde8e.jpg
16 Psyche Asteroid on Pinterest [Inspiration]

16 Psyche Asteroid on NYpost.com https://nypost.com/2020/10/28/nasa-finds-rare-metal-asteroid-worth-10000-quadrillion/ By Yaron Steinbuch

16 Psyche Asteroid = worth 10000 Quadrillion dollars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I65RyhLTso By Start Thinking on Youtube.

Some say it is with 700 and others say up to 10000 Quadrillion dollars.

---If you had $700 quintillion that is enough to give everyone on the planet Earth $93 billion Dollars!!---

That should be just about enough money

Looking at it differently.....its a disguised space ship.....just look at those drive cones....perfect for Orion Drives.

[Nuristas]

I can actually totally relate to that. At the moment we are working from bank accounts, some of them on Earth, some on Phase World. It means that we have a rather "easy" time getting money to the location we need it, except when of course you need it an realize that the people you are bartering with only take trade items. I'm pretty sure we've had to fly a few hundred light years a few times due to... forgetting trade items or not knowing what to get. It is great fun when something which is worthless a few solar systems further up, is suddenly priceless and you don't have any of it on hand.

I think that one of our players has as a goal to become a trillionaire, ever since she read that Traxus was a quadrillionaire, she wanted to be a trillionaire and is well on her way towards said goal (is already a multi-billionaire) even if I'm pretty sure it will take her a lot of sessions to get there.

I've never had a player really go after wealth itself. They were more interested in equipment, magic, ship upgrades, even henchmen/minions/crew. Several of my players, and this was especially true after we all got email after college, started creating little supply drops of armor, weapons, money, even a vehicle in new towns or places after a visit.

Another group could have easily become billionaires but they sank money into searches for magic items, lost spells, and research into new technology or recovering alien tech. Anything that gave them an edge. I love it when players do this because I just send bigger badies at them.

It helps that even when she is "rich" she avoids paying for anything if she can and is as stingy as... Ebenezer Scrooge... Which has caused some great RP moments and discussions, so all good.

I'm confused, isn't this how rich people become rich? Not paying for things like employees or taxes. Sorry I just spent an hour on the phone with a friend who works for Amazon just 3 days after talking to a friend who used to work for Disney so my opinion of the rich is just below that of AOC's.

I'm not American so I fear I kinda missed the association there. I imagine there were some layoffs at Disney and Amazon? If so, I'm sorry for your friends, especially this time of the year.
AOC is I imagine a person who fights for those people?

To be honest, Wealth is still a medium to get things done and purchase things at some point but keeping track of it means there is a consensus as to what is possible and available. It makes the bartering process less involved since we all kinda played that out, at least a gazillion times. So unless it's for something special, just doing a credit transaction, is the easy way out.

[Mlp7029]

The "Money" Asteroid

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/15/65/7215653fe3efc79cc60afbd3679cde8e.jpg
16 Psyche Asteroid on Pinterest [Inspiration]

16 Psyche Asteroid on NYpost.com https://nypost.com/2020/10/28/nasa-finds-rare-metal-asteroid-worth-10000-quadrillion/ By Yaron Steinbuch

16 Psyche Asteroid = worth 10000 Quadrillion dollars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I65RyhLTso By Start Thinking on Youtube.

Some say it is with 700 and others say up to 10000 Quadrillion dollars.

---If you had $700 quintillion that is enough to give everyone on the planet Earth $93 billion Dollars!!---


That should be just about enough money

For most people in the Megaverse absolutely. Not nearly enough for Bezos or Musk.

Also keep in mind that capitalist economics are built on scarcity so the second the resources from an asteroid like this are available that 700 Quadrillion in resources probably drops to the billions while the value of every mine on Earth drops to thousands or just hundreds of dollars.

As far as Phase World goes asteroids like this are the reason that I believe there would be very little resource extraction on large planets and almost none on livable planets unless it was a resource that for some reason is not found in space. It also makes me wonder what mineral resources in the 3Gs are worth. It has to be enough to make it worth actually getting the stuff but with FTL travel how scarce can most minerals be?

I am also wondering if anyone has had PCs try to use this as a money making venture. One of my PCs who went between 3G and Rifts Earth one of his biggest sellers was silver. I had it as dirt cheap in 3Gs but of course it is more valuable on Rifts Earth especially in the American Southwest. Do player groups with ships actual do a little mining or prospecting to earn extra money?

My character imported silver and gems from Phase World to Rifts Earth. He also bought Universal Credits on Phase World which is also quite lucrative. You can make a lot of credits importing from Phase World. In our campaign lots of gems are half book price in Lazlo and its surrounding magically oriented towns because of imports from Phase World.