WORST OCC for new players?

[Killer Cyborg]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?
Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

Scenario 1: The players have never played Rifts before.
Scenario 2: The players have never role-played before.
Scenario 3: These are experienced Rifts players.

[Fenris2020]

Floopers

Other than that, anything they don't want to play.

[Mack]

That Barmaid (Saloon Girl?) OCC from New West.

[taalismn]

That Barmaid (Saloon Girl?) OCC from New West.

THis, and the Saloon Bum, for people who have never role-played before.
"Your primary strength is you might be good looking, and you have the ability to soak up more booze than normal. However, you are virtually guaranteed to get killed in any sort of serious firefight."
"Your other choice has the ability to soak up even more alcohol than normal, and you're more likely to blaze up like a Sterno lamp around open flames, Plus you smell bad."

[Orin J.]

crazies, elemental fusionists, pretty much anything in the black market book or any other class that requires the GM's heavy cooperation to be useful and not a collection of skills only useful when the GM needs to plot device something in.

[Mack]

That Barmaid (Saloon Girl?) OCC from New West.

THis, and the Saloon Bum, for people who have never role-played before.
"Your primary strength is you might be good looking, and you have the ability to soak up more booze than normal. However, you are virtually guaranteed to get killed in any sort of serious firefight."
"Your other choice has the ability to soak up even more alcohol than normal, and you're more likely to blaze up like a Sterno lamp around open flames, Plus you smell bad."

I figured that if the GM is looking to torture the player, this would give him an excuse to have every single NPC hit on the character, or even the other players.

[Killer Cyborg]

That Barmaid (Saloon Girl?) OCC from New West.

OOooh!
Good one.

[Warshield73]

To me the worst character to play is always the one that the player doesn't want to play. I don't have a good example from Palladium but in the old West End Star Wars I was forced to play a Smuggler (basically Han Solo) for a few games until they were finished with the current module. I hated it but the other two players loved theirs.

[Curbludgeon]

While a large power discrepancy in either direction can be bad there are other situations that can prove arguably worse at the game table.

• Characters with involved subsystems with which no other players' characters engage. Examples can include astral/dream/chi stuff, or superpowers with unique mechanics such as Power Touch, but can result from, for example, an operator in a party with a bunch of Alabama Barbarians wholly uninterested in technology.
• Characters with a lot of Lores, when played by new players without any knowledge of the setting. Having someone's first character being something like a Russian Storyteller is basically telling them to hush while the GM provides infodumps.
• With the baked-in notions of prejudice, classes coming from xenophobic societies, which while capable of being used to tell good stories, can be used in several ways to make players uncomfortable.

[Library Ogre]

In the RMB, I think a good case can be made for the Mystic. Because of the slow rate of advance, Mystics are gonna find themselves stuck with the same slate of spells and powers, while Ley Line Walkers and Shifters will get new spells available, and Mind Melters and Bursters at least have a lot of cool powers.

[Mack]

In the RMB, I think a good case can be made for the Mystic. Because of the slow rate of advance, Mystics are gonna find themselves stuck with the same slate of spells and powers, while Ley Line Walkers and Shifters will get new spells available, and Mind Melters and Bursters at least have a lot of cool powers.

I've always liked the Mystic. It's got a wide variety of abilities, and the defined spell progression avoids any debate between GM & player.

[Killer Cyborg]

In the RMB, I think a good case can be made for the Mystic. Because of the slow rate of advance, Mystics are gonna find themselves stuck with the same slate of spells and powers, while Ley Line Walkers and Shifters will get new spells available, and Mind Melters and Bursters at least have a lot of cool powers.

I've always liked the Mystic. It's got a wide variety of abilities, and the defined spell progression avoids any debate between GM & player.

Yeah, whether or not a Mystic is a good pick depends heavily on how stingy your GM is with new spells.
Could be a curse, or a blessing.

[Fenris2020]

That Barmaid (Saloon Girl?) OCC from New West.

THis, and the Saloon Bum, for people who have never role-played before.
"Your primary strength is you might be good looking, and you have the ability to soak up more booze than normal. However, you are virtually guaranteed to get killed in any sort of serious firefight."
"Your other choice has the ability to soak up even more alcohol than normal, and you're more likely to blaze up like a Sterno lamp around open flames, Plus you smell bad."

I figured that if the GM is looking to torture the player, this would give him an excuse to have every single NPC hit on the character, or even the other players.

I find that the sort of GM who pulls this doesn't remain one.
I agree that the OCCs you brought up... aren't great, though. I have met one girl who played an elven Saloon Girl, but she multiclassed to Master Assassin after four or five levels.

[ShadowLogan]

In the RMB, I think a good case can be made for the Mystic. Because of the slow rate of advance, Mystics are gonna find themselves stuck with the same slate of spells and powers, while Ley Line Walkers and Shifters will get new spells available, and Mind Melters and Bursters at least have a lot of cool powers.

I've always liked the Mystic. It's got a wide variety of abilities, and the defined spell progression avoids any debate between GM & player.

Yeah, whether or not a Mystic is a good pick depends heavily on how stingy your GM is with new spells.
Could be a curse, or a blessing.

Weather any 0/R/P-CC is a good or bad pick is going to come down to the GM and their campaign's orientation (general plot, availability of materials, etc). Mecha Pilot Classes are going to have more limited use in a campaign geared toward espionage for example where the prime aspect of the class (mecha pilot) go under utilized (and IINM not all mecha pilots classes have access to useful skills in this situation).

So to answer your original question, in all three scenarios it would be OCCs that do not fit the general plot or can easily be made useful (not saying creative players can not overcome this) other than a body. While Rifts has generated lots of OCCs in the subsequent WB/SB/DBs most (not all) can be seen as a variation on an OCC from the main book (be it RMB or RUE eras) IMHO when you get down to it.

[Curbludgeon]

I like using the Mystic as a point of comparison to other, sometimes hypothetical classes, just because they get middling access to skills/equipment/magic/psionics. Given their low PPE I'd frankly be OK with a PC in an above-average power game gaining new spells at or near the rate of a Godling, or failing that having a progression akin to variants like a Mystic Knight, with starting and additional spells from an intially higher level range but with a lower cap.

[Mack]

I like using the Mystic as a point of comparison to other, sometimes hypothetical classes, just because they get middling access to skills/equipment/magic/psionics. Given their low PPE I'd frankly be OK with a PC in an above-average power game gaining new spells at or near the rate of a Godling, or failing that having a progression akin to variants like a Mystic Knight, with starting and additional spells from an intially higher level range but with a lower cap.

Another easy way to give them a bump is to 'borrow' the god-pact thing from Shifters. That gives a handful of uncommon spells, and could be roleplayed for other goodies later.

[Library Ogre]

Another easy way to give them a bump is to 'borrow' the god-pact thing from Shifters. That gives a handful of uncommon spells, and could be roleplayed for other goodies later.

I like the idea that "shifter" pacts could be available to a variety of people.

[Fenris2020]

In the RMB, I think a good case can be made for the Mystic. Because of the slow rate of advance, Mystics are gonna find themselves stuck with the same slate of spells and powers, while Ley Line Walkers and Shifters will get new spells available, and Mind Melters and Bursters at least have a lot of cool powers.

I've always liked the Mystic. It's got a wide variety of abilities, and the defined spell progression avoids any debate between GM & player.

Yeah, whether or not a Mystic is a good pick depends heavily on how stingy your GM is with new spells.
Could be a curse, or a blessing.

It seems to me that the best foil for a stingy GM (aside from kicking them out of the game and electing another) is the Mystic, since the GM has no logical control over the spells gained. No books, nor scrolls... not even a mentor is required.

[Killer Cyborg]

In the RMB, I think a good case can be made for the Mystic. Because of the slow rate of advance, Mystics are gonna find themselves stuck with the same slate of spells and powers, while Ley Line Walkers and Shifters will get new spells available, and Mind Melters and Bursters at least have a lot of cool powers.

I've always liked the Mystic. It's got a wide variety of abilities, and the defined spell progression avoids any debate between GM & player.

Yeah, whether or not a Mystic is a good pick depends heavily on how stingy your GM is with new spells.
Could be a curse, or a blessing.

It seems to me that the best foil for a stingy GM (aside from kicking them out of the game and electing another) is the Mystic, since the GM has no logical control over the spells gained. No books, nor scrolls... not even a mentor is required.

Exactly!

Mystics were my go-to mage early on in any campaign where I didn't know how the GM was going to handle spells, because if nothing else, I'd always be able to gain new spells by leveling.
But if I knew a GM was pretty generous with handing out spells to mages that can LEARN them? Mystic would be last on my list, because finding spellbooks and other typical mage treasure-troves just doesn't do much of anything for a mystic.

[Mack]

Agreed. Whether the Mystic's system is a bust or a boon depends on the player/GM involved.

And the same applies to the (rare) situation where you bring an old character into another GM's game. (I don't care that your previous GM let you have XYZ...)

[Emerald MoonSilver]

Well if you really wanted to irritate a player and everyone else in the session, you could always play a deerhorn tribesmen from the d-bees of N.A. book. Those things would make on of my Vixen healers, cranky.......:>

[drewkitty ~..~]

Phantoms, (3G book one) if played right they can be just as annoying as floopers .

[torjones]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?
Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

Scenario 1: The players have never played Rifts before.
Scenario 2: The players have never role-played before.
Scenario 3: These are experienced Rifts players.

If I had a reason to try to make their lives miserable, and REALLY stick it to them, I'd let my last group have whatever OCC/RCCC/PCC's they wanted, but start them off not knowing one another. Then sit back, relax, and do nothing as their paranoia, Ego's, narcissism, and general self-centered-ness kill themselves off. Bad guys? What the hell do I need bad guys for?

If however we wish to limit the discussion to just your average run of the mill rules lawyers, double-dippers, those who frequently forget to flush, and similar anti-social sinners, we can have some fun at their expense...

Gamers who've never played Rifts before: I tend to treat them the same as Rifts players who've never been to a given setting before. These are the ones who get to play Barmaids, Saloon Bums, Cactus People, Cyber human that's been de-militarized (cybernetics only at least to start), maybe even a city-rat archetype that's completely miss-matched for the game, possibly even the extremely flexible but widely ridiculed Vagabond. experienced Rifts players get the same treatment.

Players who have never role played before will get the most complicated character I can come up with, and I might just break a few rules to make it more complex and difficult to follow everything. For example, an Altess Dynasty version of a Neo-Human Techno-wizard/CyberDoc.

[Killer Cyborg]

[If I had a reason to try to make their lives miserable, and REALLY stick it to them, I'd let my last group have whatever OCC/RCCC/PCC's they wanted, but start them off not knowing one another. Then sit back, relax, and do nothing as their paranoia, Ego's, narcissism, and general self-centered-ness kill themselves off. Bad guys? What the hell do I need bad guys for?

That was my group, every time we tried to play Cyberpunk 2020.

If however we wish to limit the discussion to just your average run of the mill rules lawyers, double-dippers, those who frequently forget to flush, and similar anti-social sinners, we can have some fun at their expense...

Gamers who've never played Rifts before: I tend to treat them the same as Rifts players who've never been to a given setting before. These are the ones who get to play Barmaids, Saloon Bums, Cactus People, Cyber human that's been de-militarized (cybernetics only at least to start), maybe even a city-rat archetype that's completely miss-matched for the game, possibly even the extremely flexible but widely ridiculed Vagabond. experienced Rifts players get the same treatment.

Players who have never role played before will get the most complicated character I can come up with, and I might just break a few rules to make it more complex and difficult to follow everything. For example, an Altess Dynasty version of a Neo-Human Techno-wizard/CyberDoc.

I like it!

[Fenris2020]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?
Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

Scenario 1: The players have never played Rifts before.
Scenario 2: The players have never role-played before.
Scenario 3: These are experienced Rifts players.

If I had a reason to try to make their lives miserable, and REALLY stick it to them, I'd let my last group have whatever OCC/RCCC/PCC's they wanted, but start them off not knowing one another. Then sit back, relax, and do nothing as their paranoia, Ego's, narcissism, and general self-centered-ness kill themselves off. Bad guys? What the hell do I need bad guys for?

If however we wish to limit the discussion to just your average run of the mill rules lawyers, double-dippers, those who frequently forget to flush, and similar anti-social sinners, we can have some fun at their expense...

Gamers who've never played Rifts before: I tend to treat them the same as Rifts players who've never been to a given setting before. These are the ones who get to play Barmaids, Saloon Bums, Cactus People, Cyber human that's been de-militarized (cybernetics only at least to start), maybe even a city-rat archetype that's completely miss-matched for the game, possibly even the extremely flexible but widely ridiculed Vagabond. experienced Rifts players get the same treatment.

Players who have never role played before will get the most complicated character I can come up with, and I might just break a few rules to make it more complex and difficult to follow everything. For example, an Altess Dynasty version of a Neo-Human Techno-wizard/CyberDoc.

I'm fine with no-one knowing each-other, but the rest makes it look like you assign people characters.
No, thanks.

[Omegasgundam]

A lot of the choices really boil down to classes that are focused on the Role Playing parts of things that result in them being constantly arguing with the GM. A substantial number of these are classes (such as the saloon ones) are are only relevant if the GM goes to great lengths to do so, which has problems to say the least.

Generally speaking, people are interested in Rifts for either the pure lore building (which doesn't actually involve playing it) or munchkin combat (which involves very little role playing). Those that want to actually Role Play generally look at another system. Forcing somebody to do something they don't want to do is a bad first experience.

[taalismn]

"In order to survive, you'll have to put in some character development."
"My saloon bum buys the biggest gun he possibly can, holds up a bar with it and goes on a drunken rampage until he's shot dead."
"THat's not what I had in mind."
"It's what I had in mind."

[drewkitty ~..~]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?
Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

Scenario 1: The players have never played Rifts before.
Scenario 2: The players have never role-played before.
Scenario 3: These are experienced Rifts players.

there are more situations then these...the others be...

Has played other RPGs.
Has played one (or more) of the other PB Games, but not rifts.

[torjones]

I'm fine with no-one knowing each-other, but the rest makes it look like you assign people characters.
No, thanks.

While it's not something I normally do, I try to have characters available if a potential player wants to skip the creation process, but the point of the OP seemed to be what OCC would you make someone play if you didn't like them.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm fine with no-one knowing each-other, but the rest makes it look like you assign people characters.
No, thanks.

While it's not something I normally do, I try to have characters available if a potential player wants to skip the creation process, but the point of the OP seemed to be what OCC would you make someone play if you didn't like them.

Indeed!
This is just a thought exercise.

Not that I've never assigned people characters before; there's nothing wrong with pregens, as long as everybody that shows up to the table knows that's what they're going to be playing.

[Mack]

Hmmm... another tortuous character: A detoxed Juicer who's now a vampire's thrall.

[Killer Cyborg]

Hmmm... another tortuous character: A detoxed Juicer who's now a vampire's thrall.

Nice!

One of my NPCs was a powerful mage that had undergone the Rite of Odin at the base of Yggdrasil, gaining knowledge of many more spells and other magical powers...
but the rite nearly killed him, and when he got back to Earth the only way his companions could save him was to make him a full conversion Borg.
I think most players would get pretty ticked if I handed them a level 10/1 Mystic/Borg.

[Curbludgeon]

A nice little bump for Mystics(and Mind Melters/Bleeders) that I hadn't noticed before is to make them Information Brokers (see Black Market pg 96). It's left unstated if O.C.C. Bonuses from the base class such as those to spell strength would carry over, but I'd say at least some should. Combine that with the above suggestion to extend access to Shifter pacts and I'd say such a character has a defensible niche. Alternatively the Vanguard Mystic Spy/Thief classes tread similar ground and by default have access to spells at higher than character level, but thematically are not inclined towards any sort of pact.

[Hotrod]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?
Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

There's a lot of material to consider; I'll just go with the first things to pop into my head.

Scenario 1: The players have never played Rifts before.

Something from Wormwood that relies on Symbiotes, stones, or crystals from Wormwood... but they start on Rifts Earth! Per p91 of Wormwood, symbiotes are rendered immediately powerless and die within 1D6 hours of being in another dimension, and stones/crystals created by Wormwood crumble to dust after 6 hours. Bwahaha! Welcome to Rifts, suckas!

Scenario 2: The players have never role-played before.

Humpback whale from Rifts: Underseas. I mean, really, how do you roleplay a freaking whale?

Scenario 3: These are experienced Rifts players.

Something from Mutants in Orbit that isn't immune to gravity's deadly effects. Then I'd immediately bring them down to Rifts Earth in the first adventure. See, according to MiO p19, their characters have a 50% chance of dying on arrival and every 30 minutes thereafter for the first 24 hours. Each character's odds of surviving a single day are the odds of flipping a coin and getting heads 49 times in a row. This after having them grind through character creation using both Rifts and After the Bomb rules.

I feel evil now.

[Borast]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?

?!?!?! Why would I play with anyone I absolutely hated? (Outside of a con' game situation...)

[torjones]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?

?!?!?! Why would I play with anyone I absolutely hated? (Outside of a con' game situation...)

You mean like how he gives the answer to your question in the very next line?

Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

[Killer Cyborg]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?
Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

There's a lot of material to consider; I'll just go with the first things to pop into my head.

Scenario 1: The players have never played Rifts before.

Something from Wormwood that relies on Symbiotes, stones, or crystals from Wormwood... but they start on Rifts Earth! Per p91 of Wormwood, symbiotes are rendered immediately powerless and die within 1D6 hours of being in another dimension, and stones/crystals created by Wormwood crumble to dust after 6 hours. Bwahaha! Welcome to Rifts, suckas!

lol
I like it!

Scenario 2: The players have never role-played before.

Humpback whale from Rifts: Underseas. I mean, really, how do you roleplay a freaking whale?

Scenario 3: These are experienced Rifts players.

Something from Mutants in Orbit that isn't immune to gravity's deadly effects. Then I'd immediately bring them down to Rifts Earth in the first adventure. See, according to MiO p19, their characters have a 50% chance of dying on arrival and every 30 minutes thereafter for the first 24 hours. Each character's odds of surviving a single day are the odds of flipping a coin and getting heads 49 times in a row. This after having them grind through character creation using both Rifts and After the Bomb rules.

I feel evil now.[/quote]



Good choices all!

[Borast]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?

?!?!?! Why would I play with anyone I absolutely hated? (Outside of a con' game situation...)

You mean like how he gives the answer to your question in the very next line?

Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

That is still not a reason to play with them. If I hated them, spending time with them would be hurting myself...and I'm no masochist...despite evidence (being a gamer) to the contrary!

[(SHIFTY)]

To me, it's the Scholar/Adventurer with superpowers. It always seems to confuse new players and requires GM input on it frequently. This might just be in my expierence though.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?

?!?!?! Why would I play with anyone I absolutely hated? (Outside of a con' game situation...)

As non-humans in a human centric region.

[(SHIFTY)]

To me, it's the Scholar/Adventurer with superpowers. It always seems to confuse new players and requires GM input on it frequently. This might just be in my expierence though.

Oops! Sorry I misread the thread.

[Killer Cyborg]

To me, it's the Scholar/Adventurer with superpowers. It always seems to confuse new players and requires GM input on it frequently. This might just be in my expierence though.

Oops! Sorry I misread the thread.

No worries!

[drewkitty ~..~]

To me, it's the Scholar/Adventurer with superpowers. It always seems to confuse new players and requires GM input on it frequently. This might just be in my expierence though.

Oops! Sorry I misread the thread.

No worries!

agrees with KC....

That char might be one of the worst for New GM's thou.

[Hotrod]

Perhaps it might be interesting to explore which classes tend to pose the most trouble for GMs; the three I listed would also qualify there. How do you GM an adventure on Rifts Earth for a whale, a Wormwood class that gets depowered upon coming to Rifts Earth, or an Orbital who is doomed to death thanks to Earth gravity?

[drewkitty ~..~]

I've come across this, that for many Rifts GMs, they have trouble with any Character template or Race that is not in a rifts gamebook.

[Glistam]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?
Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

Scenario 1: The players have never played Rifts before.
Scenario 2: The players have never role-played before.
Scenario 3: These are experienced Rifts players.

Never played Rifts before, and I hate them? A Juicer in their final days of Last Call, just one last job away from affording detox (with the 0% survival chance not communicated).

Never role-played before, and I hate them? A high-level Crazy with unplayable insanities the GM actively enforces.

Experienced Rifts player, and I hate them? A non-humanoid (so can't wear body armor) A.I. Robot with no upgraded parts (all stock stats and sensors), no built in weapons, and enforcement of the fact that no place on Rifts Earth can understand how to repair or even modify them.

[Killer Cyborg]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?
Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

Scenario 1: The players have never played Rifts before.
Scenario 2: The players have never role-played before.
Scenario 3: These are experienced Rifts players.

Never played Rifts before, and I hate them? A Juicer in their final days of Last Call, just one last job away from affording detox (with the 0% survival chance not communicated).

Never role-played before, and I hate them? A high-level Crazy with unplayable insanities the GM actively enforces.

Experienced Rifts player, and I hate them? A non-humanoid (so can't wear body armor) A.I. Robot with no upgraded parts (all stock stats and sensors), no built in weapons, and enforcement of the fact that no place on Rifts Earth can understand how to repair or even modify them.

Nicely done!

[Zer0 Kay]

Just out of curiosity, what OCC would you start your players out with if you absolutely hated them?
Like if you were a devil, and you were in charge of their hell... which OCC?

Scenario 1: The players have never played Rifts before.
A Techno-Wizard or other Tinker type where they have to take time out of play to develop stuff. As the DGM you demand that while the character is developing they must stay out of play for the actual time it takes to make said item. Edit: and while they're out do terrible stuff to the rest of the group making sure to blame them for not having the item they were developing complete which would have saved the day.
Scenario 2: The players have never role-played before.
A Wizard or Psychic... something with a long list of powers. Of course as the DGM you have to be impatient and demand that the time the player takes to figure out what they want to do is taking actual time in the game. Edit: similar to S1 while they're having to read what the powers do and checking to see if they can cast it you abuse the other players pointing out that their inaction is causing their friends deaths.
Scenario 3: These are experienced Rifts players.
A character strictly from the main book... of Recon. Edit: Play in Recon for a bit. Let the group get to know each other and bond. Then in the blast of a new Commy weapon the group is transported and your hated player is caught up in a vampires game of pick which friend dies first... before they're eaten.

[Mack]

Gotta agree with Zer0 Kay... make 'em a TW and insist they follow all the TW creation rules. Shoot, just making the player decipher the creation rules is punishment enough.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Gotta agree with Zer0 Kay... make 'em a TW and insist they follow all the TW creation rules. Shoot, just making the player decipher the creation rules is punishment enough.

This only part of the RUE TW magic item creation rules I had any problem with was in the Const. Time equation. They left out a pair of ( ), and the example given is .....lacking.... as an example for the math.