Parachute question

[PalladiumBrony]

In Merc Ops page 117, it talks about standard and freefall parachutes, saying that a "basic chute" requires specialized training to pack properly, is that covered under the Parachuting skill?

Also, I admit that I don't know much about parachuting, but I question the fact that "static line" parachuting can be done with one type of 'chute and not the other, can someone confirm whether this is how it actually works IRL? Regardless... How would one conduct a static line jump in game? I would say that for a "free-fall" jump you have to roll once to pack the chute properly, once to try and use your main chute, and if that fails (and you're not doing a HALO or LALO jump) you get one attempt to deploy a reserve chute so at least you don't plow into the ground at full gravity speed. But with a static line, the jumper doesn't control anything about when their chute opens, that's all done automatically by the static line system.

On the subject of reserve chutes, am I correct that (both IRL and in-game) if you have to rely on a reserve, even if you manage to open it high enough up you're still almost guaranteed a rough landing? How much damage should landing while using a reserve chute do?

[Pepsi Jedi]

That's a lot of questions and a lot of thought into the skill.
A bit more micro-managing than I would put into it personally.
I can see how you're getting from A to B on it and all.

At most if my char was packing his own chute, I'd give them a roll to do so. Then a roll to check to make sure they didn't make a mistake. Then a simple roll for the actual jump. If the jump roll failed, sure a roll for the back up chute.

Thing is with Rifts.. if you have the tech to do a Chute jump, chances are you have hover or VTOL tech which largely makes parachuting old school. You can just whip in, land and offload with out throwing someone out of a plane and letting them fall/and maybe get shot on the way down.

You kinda have to work a contrivance to justify parachuting in Rifts to start with.

But do as many rolls as you want and do the difficulty as you want. Cross winds. Night drops. low openings, etc. For me that's a bit nitpicky but some people like to play that way. What ever floats your boat.

[Warshield73]

That's a lot of questions and a lot of thought into the skill.
A bit more micro-managing than I would put into it personally.
I can see how you're getting from A to B on it and all.

At most if my char was packing his own chute, I'd give them a roll to do so. Then a roll to check to make sure they didn't make a mistake. Then a simple roll for the actual jump. If the jump roll failed, sure a roll for the back up chute.

I am normally the person that adds a lot of skills and I do a lot of skill rolls but in this case I make it easier than PJ did. I assume someone with the skill can pack the chute but I don't require a roll for it unless it is some sort of emergency or rush job. I assume if they miss pack the chute or if there is a defect in the chute that is part of the failure on the jump roll. So I have them just roll for jump, if that fails then they get another roll for the emergency chute. Just easier and less to keep track of.

Thing is with Rifts.. if you have the tech to do a Chute jump, chances are you have hover or VTOL tech which largely makes parachuting old school. You can just whip in, land and offload with out throwing someone out of a plane and letting them fall/and maybe get shot on the way down.

You kinda have to work a contrivance to justify parachuting in Rifts to start with.

But do as many rolls as you want and do the difficulty as you want. Cross winds. Night drops. low openings, etc. For me that's a bit nitpicky but some people like to play that way. What ever floats your boat.

Have to agree here. When aircraft were first introduced in WB5 Triax there were a few non-VTOL jets but for the most part if you have aircraft you can get most places. It's not hard to contrive a situation that requires a jump like a mountain pass or jungle area with no place to land but in those cases repelling from a hovering vehicle or jumping out with a jetpack or flying power armor just makes more sense and taking pilot jetpack skill instead of Parachute skill.

[guardiandashi]

That's a lot of questions and a lot of thought into the skill.
A bit more micro-managing than I would put into it personally.
I can see how you're getting from A to B on it and all.

At most if my char was packing his own chute, I'd give them a roll to do so. Then a roll to check to make sure they didn't make a mistake. Then a simple roll for the actual jump. If the jump roll failed, sure a roll for the back up chute.

I am normally the person that adds a lot of skills and I do a lot of skill rolls but in this case I make it easier than PJ did. I assume someone with the skill can pack the chute but I don't require a roll for it unless it is some sort of emergency or rush job. I assume if they miss pack the chute or if there is a defect in the chute that is part of the failure on the jump roll. So I have them just roll for jump, if that fails then they get another roll for the emergency chute. Just easier and less to keep track of.

Thing is with Rifts.. if you have the tech to do a Chute jump, chances are you have hover or VTOL tech which largely makes parachuting old school. You can just whip in, land and offload with out throwing someone out of a plane and letting them fall/and maybe get shot on the way down.

You kinda have to work a contrivance to justify parachuting in Rifts to start with.


But do as many rolls as you want and do the difficulty as you want. Cross winds. Night drops. low openings, etc. For me that's a bit nitpicky but some people like to play that way. What ever floats your boat.

Have to agree here. When aircraft were first introduced in WB5 Triax there were a few non-VTOL jets but for the most part if you have aircraft you can get most places. It's not hard to contrive a situation that requires a jump like a mountain pass or jungle area with no place to land but in those cases repelling from a hovering vehicle or jumping out with a jetpack or flying power armor just makes more sense and taking pilot jetpack skill instead of Parachute skill.

my 2cents
the parachuting skill would reasonably include training on packing the chute

my understanding of parachuting with a static line, is that its normally used for what I would call semi-skilled jumpers, IE people who know how to land after a jump, but likely not a lot of training on deploying, and or packing the chute.

as I understand it static line humps are usually for jumping out of a perfectly good cargo plane ...
1 they load into the plane, and as they approach the drop zone, they clip the static line onto a cable that is in the upper part of the bay running from the front of the bay to the rear door. the load master (or a designee) experienced jumper likely double checks the static line is connected correctly.
2 the jumpers then wait for the jump direction, at which point they move to the rear door and jump out
3 as they start falling and hit the end of the static line, because 1 end is still connected to the plane (cable in the plane) the line jerks the parachute deployment and starts the deployment process.
4 if the primary fails the user either clears it, and or tries to deploy the reserve chute.or a combination.

as far as if the primary fails does that guarantee a poor landing? I would say it depends, it does however almost guarantee some scatter on landing. the biggest factor on poor landing really would come down to 1 how fast did you manage to get the reserve in use, and 2 how far did you fall and how high were you before it deployed, and how high do you need to be to land safely.

the main reason in rifts that I could see using conventional parachutes, has to do with coat, and or there being some reason you don't want to use a "jet/rocket pack.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I think, and they can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the implication in the OP, is that a Reserve chute will dump you a lot harder than a main chute. You might not die, but you're coming in pretty hot with a reserve chute deployment.

[PalladiumBrony]

I think, and they can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the implication in the OP, is that a Reserve chute will dump you a lot harder than a main chute. You might not die, but you're coming in pretty hot with a reserve chute deployment.

This is correct: Even with a reserve chute deployed "properly" (with plenty of time before you hit the ground) you're gonna come in awfully hot compared to a properly deployed main chute, though I'm unsure exactly how hot would be reasonable (whether every reserve landing should result in some SDC damage for example).

[Hotrod]

I've done static-line mass-exit jumps. You want round chutes for those in order to minimize dudes flying around and bumping into each other on the way down. There's not a lot of control there, and the landing is pretty hard; a lot of emphasis goes into how to hit the ground and roll with the impact to minimize injury. The US Army puts 20,000 people per year through Airborne training, and I don't know of any training fatalities they've had (though injuries aren't uncommon). Thus, I wouldn't use the parachute skill as a straight roll for a basic combat jump off a static line.

[Borast]

In Merc Ops page 117, it talks about standard and freefall parachutes, saying that a "basic chute" requires specialized training to pack properly, is that covered under the Parachuting skill?

Also, I admit that I don't know much about parachuting, but I question the fact that "static line" parachuting can be done with one type of 'chute and not the other, can someone confirm whether this is how it actually works IRL? Regardless... How would one conduct a static line jump in game? I would say that for a "free-fall" jump you have to roll once to pack the chute properly, once to try and use your main chute, and if that fails (and you're not doing a HALO or LALO jump) you get one attempt to deploy a reserve chute so at least you don't plow into the ground at full gravity speed. But with a static line, the jumper doesn't control anything about when their chute opens, that's all done automatically by the static line system.

On the subject of reserve chutes, am I correct that (both IRL and in-game) if you have to rely on a reserve, even if you manage to open it high enough up you're still almost guaranteed a rough landing? How much damage should landing while using a reserve chute do?

If I recall (not that I personally have the training) correctly, the training for packing a chute correctly is supplemental to the skill for *using* the chute.
A quick search shows that under the US FAA regs, a diver may pack his or her *main* chute (takes about 10 minutes or so for an experienced diver). The back-up, however, MUST be packed by a certified rigger.

To the best I have been able to check (and from video I have seen) a static line can be used with any type of chute.
Edit: However, as mentioned above, the round chutes are generally used for mass deployments for safety reasons.

For your *ALO jumps, if you have an AAD (opens the reserve automatically if you have not opened *a* chute before about 250m), your reserve will deploy, and take about 150m of altitude to open. (The main takes between 200 and 550m to open.)
A properly trained jumper can land safely at effective speeds that would kill an untrained person.
On a failed roll, take damage as if you were in freefall.

The irony is that while people have had chutes fail to open (properly or at all), and walked away from the impact with the ground, there have been people whom have been critically injured on a successful landing.

You are likely correct, considering that a reserve can be successfully opened as low as about 125m, where a main should not ever be used under 330m or so...if you do, you will likely land while the chute is still opening. The reserve opens faster (a larger physical jolt), and possibly would see the jumper landing at higher velocities.

Google is your friend...sometimes. lol

[Mack]

In Merc Ops page 117, it talks about standard and freefall parachutes, saying that a "basic chute" requires specialized training to pack properly, is that covered under the Parachuting skill?

Also, I admit that I don't know much about parachuting, but I question the fact that "static line" parachuting can be done with one type of 'chute and not the other, can someone confirm whether this is how it actually works IRL? Regardless... How would one conduct a static line jump in game? I would say that for a "free-fall" jump you have to roll once to pack the chute properly, once to try and use your main chute, and if that fails (and you're not doing a HALO or LALO jump) you get one attempt to deploy a reserve chute so at least you don't plow into the ground at full gravity speed. But with a static line, the jumper doesn't control anything about when their chute opens, that's all done automatically by the static line system.

On the subject of reserve chutes, am I correct that (both IRL and in-game) if you have to rely on a reserve, even if you manage to open it high enough up you're still almost guaranteed a rough landing? How much damage should landing while using a reserve chute do?

I wouldn't overthink it. For any kind of awkward landing, such as rough terrain or a bad skill roll, I'd have player attempt to Roll with Impact to avoid 1d4 to 2D6 damage, less if their wearing MD body armor. (MD armor can cover a lot of errors.)

For guidance, I'd look at RUE p356 for the High Speed Crash rule.