Do you think it,s time for 3nd Edition Heroes Unlimited?

[gaby]

Do you think it,s time for 3nd Edition Heroes Unlimited?

How would you set it up?

[matt.reed]

i'm starting to believe that the create a power option is probably the best way to do things. That said there's always going to be need for specific power concepts out there.

[Jefffar]

I say there is need for an up to date common rulebook for all Palladium games with settign books containing setting specific rules, so I guess that woudl count as a third edition

[drewkitty ~..~]

While I agree with Jefffar that the rules need some cleaning up. But that only needs something like what PB did with Rifts when they published the RGMG.

Does the game need to be more realistic with the rifts MWP rules.... Absolutely NOT! It is a hero game and the MWP rules are just fine for that.

Does it need to be the exactly the same game as Rifts, Another absolutely not. A common Rulebook would ruin the non-rifts games. Making them just parts of the Rifts game. The common rules are fine...published within each games' Core Book.....along with the game specific rules.

[Warshield73]

I say there is need for an up to date common rulebook for all Palladium games with settign books containing setting specific rules, so I guess that woudl count as a third edition

I agree with Jeffar but I don't consider this a 3rd edition. I am afraid that if they do a true 3rd edition I'm afraid that the Megaverse, such as it is, will just fracture further.

Create a Palladium 2.0, primary rule system with everything you can cram in. Then start with one game, Heroes us actually a good one since it has magic, psionics, technology and super powers, and refine it then start adding more.

While I agree with Jefffar that the rules need some cleaning up. But that only needs something like what PB did with Rifts when they published the RGMG.

Does the game need to be more realistic with the rifts MWP rules.... Absolutely NOT! It is a hero game and the MWP rules are just fine for that.

Does it need to be the exactly the same game as Rifts, Another absolutely not. A common Rulebook would ruin the non-rifts games. Making them just parts of the Rifts game. The common rules are fine...published within each games' Core Book.....along with the game specific rules.

I largely disagree with this. Just because there is a common rule set doesn't mean it becomes the same game.

[drewkitty ~..~]

While I agree with Jefffar that the rules need some cleaning up. But that only needs something like what PB did with Rifts when they published the RGMG.

Does the game need to be more realistic with the rifts MWP rules.... Absolutely NOT! It is a hero game and the MWP rules are just fine for that.

Does it need to be the exactly the same game as Rifts, Another absolutely not. A common Rulebook would ruin the non-rifts games. Making them just parts of the Rifts game. The common rules are fine...published within each games' Core Book.....along with the game specific rules.

I largely disagree with this. Just because there is a common rule set doesn't mean it becomes the same game.

Then you missed what I meant. And Yes, if all the rules are the same in game B and in game A. Then B is equal to A, then they are, in effect, the same game. PB is not GURPS.

[Warshield73]

While I agree with Jefffar that the rules need some cleaning up. But that only needs something like what PB did with Rifts when they published the RGMG.

Does the game need to be more realistic with the rifts MWP rules.... Absolutely NOT! It is a hero game and the MWP rules are just fine for that.

Does it need to be the exactly the same game as Rifts, Another absolutely not. A common Rulebook would ruin the non-rifts games. Making them just parts of the Rifts game. The common rules are fine...published within each games' Core Book.....along with the game specific rules.

I largely disagree with this. Just because there is a common rule set doesn't mean it becomes the same game.

Then you missed what I meant. And Yes, if all the rules are the same in game B and in game A. Then B is equal to A, then they are, in effect, the same game. PB is not GURPS.

First, from your earlier post what is MWP rules? I forgot to ask.

A common rule set doesn't mean the games are the same. Having a common set of say environmental rules so I have a set of penalties for moving in snow and how desert heat effects stats without going through 4 different books and getting 6 different set of rules (minor exaggeration, but only minor) would help players and GMs a lot. Combat already works mostly the same but a common set of penalties and bonuses all listed in one place can only help the individual games. Each game can add rules as necessary to what's in the common rules but games are not just rules, setting and character classes are far more important.

I am not looking for PB to be Gurps, I'm not even looking for it to be Savage Worlds but a little more streamlining and standardization wouldn't hurt.

[drewkitty ~..~]

modern WPs

There was a poster...sometime in the last two years said he'd want to make all the games have all the same rules. Because he said they were not the same system was why people were bad mouthing the PB games. ....It was hard to move characters from game to game.... It was heated. esspecily when he called me a lier cause I pointed out the PB games were all the same system. (which they are.....just look at DND ed 3, ed 3.5, ed 4, ed 5 & pathfinder ed 1&2...they are all the same system even if they are different games.). So maybe I over reacted. But that other post wants to basically scrap all the games other than rifts and just make it all one game, with different settings.

[Stone Gargoyle]

There is no need to modify the rules. HU2 has some of the best rules of all the Palladium games and does not need to be rewritten. While it is not the best organized, we do not need a new edition to clean up the rules and streamline them. All that would be needed is a set of books with everything organized and clarified. We all know that is never going to happen. Be happy with the game as is.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip... All that would be needed is a set of books with everything organized and clarified. We all know that is never going to happen. Be happy with the game as is.

Like having books about each individual Power Cat. ?

Sort of like how PB consolidated all of the bionics into one book for Rifts?

[Stone Gargoyle]

Like having books about each individual Power Cat. ?

Sort of like how PB consolidated all of the bionics into one book for Rifts?

Yes. PB started doing it with some of the power categories but didn't follow through with all of them.

[SpiritInterface]

Do you think it,s time for 3nd Edition Heroes Unlimited?

How would you set it up?

I thought that the latest edition WAS the third edition.

Lets see, there was Heroes Unlimited, then there was Heroes Unlimited revised, then came Heroes Unlimited 2nd Edition.

[Borast]

NOOOOOooooo!!!!!

I have too much shelf space taken up by 1st & 2nd ed as is!

HOWEVER...if we were to see a working unified system for all games. I could deal with that.

[foilfodder]

No to 3rd edition HU

The PB rpgs may have a bad rep due to the organization and rule inconsistancies between rulebooks, but adding a HU 3rd edition would probably anger just as many veteran players as it would please. More flame-wars across the Megaverse internet won't bring more players to the table.

Creating new content for use with the existing HU rulebook (and othet settings) has a better chance to bring more players, plus existing books (and their pdf versions) are readily available.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Like having books about each individual Power Cat. ?

Sort of like how PB consolidated all of the bionics into one book for Rifts?

Yes. PB started doing it with some of the power categories but didn't follow through with all of them.

Makes some space, toss the rifts books. That is sort of what I did.

[Warshield73]

Like having books about each individual Power Cat. ?

Sort of like how PB consolidated all of the bionics into one book for Rifts?

Yes. PB started doing it with some of the power categories but didn't follow through with all of them.

The problem with new HU books that expand on or outright replace the character classes that becomes a de facto 3rd edition and even more disorganized. I know because that is my situation.
In my games I:
- Replaced the education skill program system with a modified version
- Use Aliens Unlimited for Aliens character
- Use the Rifter versions of the Physical Training and all Special Training classes
- Major changes to Magical weapons and magic categories in Armageddon Unlimited

With all of this if we get a new Hardware book that replaces that class in the MB it will be almost useless to me and a lots of other people. If that book adds in robots and even bionics then the MB might as well be pulped (hyperbole).

Do you think it,s time for 3nd Edition Heroes Unlimited?

How would you set it up?

I thought that the latest edition WAS the third edition.

Lets see, there was Heroes Unlimited, then there was Heroes Unlimited revised, then came Heroes Unlimited 2nd Edition.

This is correct but PB is horrible with this. Also, I believe right now that Heroes Unlimited MB is the second oldest MB of any active PB game line. 2nd only to Nightbane I believe.

But HU is not the only mess. Look at Rifts, there is the original and Ultimate Edition. This is why I always say the next version of the Palladium Megaverse needs to be a 2.0 so that all the games can start somewhat fresh.

No to 3rd edition HU

The PB rpgs may have a bad rep due to the organization and rule inconsistancies between rulebooks, but adding a HU 3rd edition would probably anger just as many veteran players as it would please. More flame-wars across the Megaverse internet won't bring more players to the table.

Creating new content for use with the existing HU rulebook (and othet settings) has a better chance to bring more players, plus existing books (and their pdf versions) are readily available.

You are correct but this is unfortunately true of every book, film, and series in any fandom in existence right now.

[Rogerd]

I say there is need for an up to date common rulebook for all Palladium games with settign books containing setting specific rules, so I guess that woudl count as a third edition

Yes there should absolutely be new rulebook.
I think the best example of this will be Swade, and Modern Age. Both have the basic lower level game, and both are in the process of having a Powers book.

The higher level game should essentially be similar to Mutants and Masterminds, with a lot of powers, and such that they cost the same whether psychic, magic, superpowers etc.

And then like you say each setting book having individual setting specific rules. I think something like M&M 3e in the GM book with cosmology details.

As right now it is a higgly piggly affair and needs streamlining.

As to HU I ended up re-writing a lot of the Special Training stuff, and streamlining some of the power classes. As it is the level of the game that matters, a good example is Ray's Atom Suit from Arrowverse and Stark's Iron Man suit. The former lower level is Sdc, and the latter is Mdc.

But that can be defined by a point buy situation because at the minute both PF 2e and DnD 5e are top of the pile when it comes to level driven games. The latter is getting a huge swath of really good settings, and some really good ones already.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I don't think HU needs an overhaul. It certainly doesn't need a point buy system. They just need to streamline it and get all the Rifter material into the relevant categories and make everything easier to find and read. For one thing, I don't think you are going to find someone willing to put in the time rewriting everything as point buy. I know my players already dislike anything too complicated and reliant on numbers, so who will play it?

[drewkitty ~..~]

...point buying system.....Isn't that GURPS? *sardonically*

[Jefffar]

I don't think HU needs an overhaul. It certainly doesn't need a point buy system. They just need to streamline it and get all the Rifter material into the relevant categories and make everything easier to find and read. For one thing, I don't think you are going to find someone willing to put in the time rewriting everything as point buy. I know my players already dislike anything too complicated and reliant on numbers, so who will play it?

]
Many of the classes in HU use some form of point buy, it's just that not all of them use the same points.

Bionics, Robots and Hardware characters use Dollars for point buy
Mutant Animals use Bio-E for point buy

[Stone Gargoyle]

Many of the classes in HU use some form of point buy, it's just that not all of them use the same points.

Bionics, Robots and Hardware characters use Dollars for point buy
Mutant Animals use Bio-E for point buy

So are you in favor of streamlining the game so it uses all one type of points?

[Rogerd]

...point buying system.....Isn't that GURPS? *sardonically*

Nope.
M&M, Champions, Unisystem, Lords of Gossamer, Savage Worlds are all points buy system.
And they all work extremely well such that the powers purchased can be magic, psychic, bionics, or anything else really.

[Rogerd]

I don't think HU needs an overhaul. It certainly doesn't need a point buy system. They just need to streamline it and get all the Rifter material into the relevant categories and make everything easier to find and read. For one thing, I don't think you are going to find someone willing to put in the time rewriting everything as point buy. I know my players already dislike anything too complicated and reliant on numbers, so who will play it?

]
Many of the classes in HU use some form of point buy, it's just that not all of them use the same points.

Bionics, Robots and Hardware characters use Dollars for point buy
Mutant Animals use Bio-E for point buy

Absolutely all could use the same points buy system extremely easily.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Which Jefffar is correct that parts the PB system do run off some sort of points. But not as a whole.

Psi chars use to (BTS1) have to buy their Psi powers out of the char's perm PPE.

[Warshield73]

I prefer the varied point buy systems. Each class uses the points that make sense for it. For instance, hardware and robotics money is perfect for those creation rules but for a mutant or psi not so much.

[Rogerd]

I prefer the varied point buy systems. Each class uses the points that make sense for it. For instance, hardware and robotics money is perfect for those creation rules but for a mutant or psi not so much.

It is and it isn't.
If super strength is X cost, then a cyborg, mutant, uplift can all buy it and it should cost no different. Thus bringing equal costs for chargen. Same goes for armour.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I prefer the varied point buy systems. Each class uses the points that make sense for it. For instance, hardware and robotics money is perfect for those creation rules but for a mutant or psi not so much.

It is and it isn't.
If super strength is X cost, then a cyborg, mutant, uplift can all buy it and it should cost no different. Thus bringing equal costs for chargen. Same goes for armour.

Forced democritization in the real world does not make things equal, it just brings down those that would excel with their own abilities. In this the way the HU powers system is set up actually reflects the real world in this sense.

The path to the super strength imposes the variation to that super PS's costs. If it is through eugenics, robotics or bionics the cost is via money. If it is thought forced change (uplift) then the amount of change available with the life form (represented by Bio-E) is the right cost to pay with.

If the path is through practicing or training the cost imposed is that of time. Which is why, to bring in an example from another game, that the Mortal Arts Forms within the N&S game book comes with a Time to learn cost. In HU the Ancient master and other special training powers cats, along with the Mystic study (wizard) power cat are those that have a years long training built into the descriptive text for the power cats.
In Other Words, these chars should be (or have to be in some cases) built out as an older character.

Even if there is no apparent cost to get them, like with magical bestowed powers or enchanted weapon/object, there is a cost to having them.

The Alien power cat has (some) powers and costs (for being alien) built into the alien race creation tables.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I think the powers vary so much that you would have a hard time making them affordable with a points budget.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I think the powers vary so much that you would have a hard time making them affordable with a points budget.

Yep,
You'd ether get non-powered chars that had superhero skills, or you'd have supers that were illiterate.

Side note:

Spoiler:

With the TMNT game the Bio-E budget doesn't let you make the TMTN MA characters as depicted in the comics and shows. You need to add in, about 12-18 Bio-E to get the Turtles characters.

[Borast]

>snip<Yep,
You'd ether get non-powered chars that had superhero skills, or you'd have supers that were illiterate.>snip<

Too true. Can't remember which game it was, but I can remember reading in the texts that you have to buy your native language (admittedly, at a discount!). The fun part is that the statement is buried, so you would literally have characters whom couldn't technically speak their natal language!

[Rogerd]

I prefer the varied point buy systems. Each class uses the points that make sense for it. For instance, hardware and robotics money is perfect for those creation rules but for a mutant or psi not so much.

It is and it isn't.
If super strength is X cost, then a cyborg, mutant, uplift can all buy it and it should cost no different. Thus bringing equal costs for chargen. Same goes for armour.

Forced democritization in the real world does not make things equal, it just brings down those that would excel with their own abilities. In this the way the HU powers system is set up actually reflects the real world in this sense.

The path to the super strength imposes the variation to that super PS's costs. If it is through eugenics, robotics or bionics the cost is via money. If it is thought forced change (uplift) then the amount of change available with the life form (represented by Bio-E) is the right cost to pay with.

If the path is through practicing or training the cost imposed is that of time. Which is why, to bring in an example from another game, that the Mortal Arts Forms within the N&S game book comes with a Time to learn cost. In HU the Ancient master and other special training powers cats, along with the Mystic study (wizard) power cat are those that have a years long training built into the descriptive text for the power cats.
In Other Words, these chars should be (or have to be in some cases) built out as an older character.

Even if there is no apparent cost to get them, like with magical bestowed powers or enchanted weapon/object, there is a cost to having them.

The Alien power cat has (some) powers and costs (for being alien) built into the alien race creation tables.

Nah this is just wrong.
The cost to have the power should ALWAYS be the same, regardless of source.
So using your N&S and Ancient Masrer analogy, Shang Chi is not old, and using MCU tv neither is Daredevil who squarely beat Danny in a fist fight. So all your assertions fall flat.
So the cost to the powers remains the same throughout.

So metahuman can easily be split into various categories: Mutant, Symbiote, Eugenics, Cybernetics, Nanotech, Magic, Uplift etc. Just like Special Training can be split: Martial Arts, Weapons, Physical.

What should limit powers is the level of the game, whether street level, Xmen level, Avengers level etc. The higher level the game, the higher the points spend.

I think the powers vary so much that you would have a hard time making them affordable with a points budget.

This not correct either.
Everything in HU can be duplicated in M&M 2e or 3e, Champions, Mythic D6, Prowlers and Paragons. All have points based powers with limiters which change them.

Yep,
You'd ether get non-powered chars that had superhero skills, or you'd have supers that were illiterate.

This is a strawman argument, no modern games have this problem.

Palladium needs to catch up to the other systems, see what they do well and emulate. See what they do badly, and improve upon them.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I think the powers vary so much that you would have a hard time making them affordable with a points budget.

This not correct either.
Everything in HU can be duplicated in M&M 2e or 3e, Champions, Mythic D6, Prowlers and Paragons. All have points based powers with limiters which change them.

It sounds like you want Heroes Unlimited to just be the same as all those other games. The problem with having every power cost the same is that you have imbalances and characters which are not equal, same as it is now. You would not be improving the game, just making it more complicated.

[Rogerd]

It sounds like you want Heroes Unlimited to just be the same as all those other games. The problem with having every power cost the same is that you have imbalances and characters which are not equal, same as it is now. You would not be improving the game, just making it more complicated.

It is the same as those other games, they just do it better than Heroes Unlimited.

And I think you misunderstood my statement, or at least I hope you did.

A power should cost the same no matter the source, whether bionic, nanotech, magic, supersoldier etc. So if superstrength costs 2 points per level, it would be that for everyone.

This creates no game imbalaces whatsoever. Just a superior power choices and variation.

Seriously go check some of them out. Gurps and Champions are more or less cut from the same cloth can be be quite maths intensive.

Mythic D6 and M&M are a lot easier to grasp. Same too for Swex and Swex powers, although Swade Powers is due out next year though.

Do not get me wrong, all have the odd issue here and there. But each is more balanced, and all worth checking out, particularly Champions for the eras it covers.

[drewkitty ~..~]

It sounds like you want Heroes Unlimited to just be the same as all those other games.

Yup. I agree with SG on this. Which is sort of what my sardonic comment was about.

You are complaining that PB isn't like the games you like to play. *shrugs*
I've see posters here in these boards complaining that the different PB games are not the same.
This is just the same but with a grander contrast.

I acknowledge you like those other systems better, but I don't play those systems, (I have played GURPS before.) And... I have no desire to make the PB games like any other game. Even if that game is named 'Rifts'.

[Stone Gargoyle]

It is the same as those other games, they just do it better than Heroes Unlimited.

I disagree. Putting points to powers MAKES THEM LIMITED IN SCOPE. And if you dislike Heroes Unlimited, maybe you are on the wrong Forum.

And I think you misunderstood my statement, or at least I hope you did.

A power should cost the same no matter the source, whether bionic, nanotech, magic, supersoldier etc. So if superstrength costs 2 points per level, it would be that for everyone.

Then you have no variety, so why even play different power categories? Bionics have limitations superabilities do not, in terms of lifting capacity. That is why they are different and have different systems to create them.

This creates no game imbalances whatsoever. Just a superior power choices and variation.

Under the system you propose certain major superabilities could not reach the level they do in HU.

Seriously go check some of them out. Gurps and Champions are more or less cut from the same cloth can be be quite maths intensive.

I've played lots of other games and not found them as versatile as Heroes Unlimited. And again, if you like those games, go play them. You should not be trying to turn Heroes Unlimited into them.

[Rogerd]

I disagree. Putting points to powers MAKES THEM LIMITED IN SCOPE. And if you dislike Heroes Unlimited, maybe you are on the wrong Forum.

Then you have no variety, so why even play different power categories? Bionics have limitations superabilities do not, in terms of lifting capacity. That is why they are different and have different systems to create them.

Under the system you propose certain major superabilities could not reach the level they do in HU.

I've played lots of other games and not found them as versatile as Heroes Unlimited. And again, if you like those games, go play them. You should not be trying to turn Heroes Unlimited into them.

1. This is just wrong mate. M&M and Champions both have more versatility in powers. Never said I dislike HU, only that I think its limitations can be overcome with a new edition.

2. This too is wrong, bionics (cybernetics) only has the limitatations you are putting on them. Comics do not have that issue, there are plenty of powerful characters with cybernetics. Hell M&M still has power categories to choose from. And it limits point spend based upon game level same as many other games.

3. This too is totally wrong. M&M has powers that leaves HU standing far behind. Powers allowing them to scan the universe, or different dimensions, reality warp. Nothing in Palladium allows this. NOTHING.

4. And it is this mentality that is killing Palladium. They should be finding good stuff from other games and emulating them, and improving on the bad parts so they can try to lead as opposed to falling so far behind it is frightening.

Let's put this in perspective for you. If I go on say rpg.net and ask for favourite superhero rpg, and favourite superhero rpg they play I can tell you the answer.

Some will say Heroes Unlimited for sentimental reasons, then the 2nd will be M&M, or Champions, or Mythic d6, or Prowlers & Paragons. No one will want to play HU for the game system, Period. And that is not a good thing.

Those of us that played PB stuff, HU, PF when we were younger loved the games but moved on to better systems. We get a newer, better system we would play it like crazy. We really would. So HU3 would be great.

[Borast]

Based on personal experience, if you make it a points based system, you have everyone min-maxing for maximum damage.

While you can do that with any Pally system, it's not necessarily as easy.

Perfect example I can think of involved a LEGAL 1st level character in Hackmaster - str & dex in the high 20's, and able to take out a small city solo. In a social situation, he was a 100% liability. (Cha as low as it can be.)

[Rogerd]

Based on personal experience, if you make it a points based system, you have everyone min-maxing for maximum damage.

While you can do that with any Pally system, it's not necessarily as easy.

Perfect example I can think of involved a LEGAL 1st level character in Hackmaster - str & dex in the high 20's, and able to take out a small city solo. In a social situation, he was a 100% liability. (Cha as low as it can be.)

Now that is one system I am not familiar with so I cannot comment on.
That said though, some PB skills everyone has, e.g. boxing, as the benefits are too good to pass up.

[Stone Gargoyle]

That said though, some PB skills everyone has, e.g. boxing, as the benefits are too good to pass up.

Not everyone plays to max out bonuses. Some people like HU for the role playing aspects over min-maxing.

[Rogerd]

Not everyone plays to max out bonuses. Some people like HU for the role playing aspects over min-maxing.

Very true.

Just like a lot of Pathfinder / DnD players do not min-max.

But there are some that do. Unfortunately, if memory serves this is what caused a lot of problems with DnD 3e due to RAW / RAI, and a lot of the time it being the literal wording that took precedence. Which is a bit sad really, and takes a lot of the fun out for both other players, and GM's.

To my knowledge you do not hear of a lot of PB min-max'ers, thanksfully.

[Rogerd]

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads ... t-24030938

[Stone Gargoyle]

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/favourite-superhero-rpg-system.886180/page-4#post-24030938

There aren't a lot of responses to the thread here, so this is hardly conclusive. And one person did comment on the great amount of categories and variety you have with Heroes Unlimited. And faults of some of the other systems were mentioned. My preference is for Heroes Unlimited, updated to third or just streamlined a bit.

[Stone Gargoyle]

To my knowledge you do not hear of a lot of PB min-max'ers, thanksfully.

We get those occasionally on this forum. There have been entire threads dedicated to how to create the most powerful combinations of powers, for instance, or how to stack bonuses to get the highest strength and SDC scores.

[matt.reed]

indeed, its one of the things that put me off Rifts overall is to hear people go on and on about how they cherry picked their character. I gotta say though, I rarely hear that sort of thing anymore.

[Curbludgeon]

I'm a little disappointed "Role, not rollplayer" edged out Objectivist parroting as the cherry on this complete lack of sundae.

Superficial comments on the games mentioned upthread, occasionally in relation to the Palladium system:

AGE: I hadn't checked this out since the initial video game adaptation. It's nice! I like how the Lazarus and Threefold setting books themselves hit a lot of stylistic elements one might see in a Rifts game. The ability to further subdivide a focus is probably a good way to entice players interested in even four color games having huge skill lists. The usage and presentation of different rules for pulp/gritty/cinematic games is a more approachable method than other systems' full-on kitchen sink, and is a decent model for how a revamped Megaversal System might do the same.
SWADE: There's a neat contrast between this and Modern AGE. The Iconic Framework captures much of the role protection Palladium attempts via power categories/*CCs, while tying it effectively to exclusive abilities. Modern AGE largely forgoes this in favor of delineation via background/profession/drive, which works better for certain character concepts than others. I generally like being able to estimate a given action's chance of success, which is made more difficult with swingy resolution methods. The epicycles endemic to exploding dice systems favor "better lucky than good" style play, which given the gonzo nature of some Palladium settings charitably qualifies as genre emulation.
GURPS: As toolsets go it's one of the most customizable, and regardless of what system a given game utilizes setting research often begins with seeing what GURPS has to say about it. It seems almost counterintuitive, but the flexibility available usually leads to option paralysis. If you've seen how posters here passive-aggressively use the term "house rules" it's clear that instead defining a system in terms of exceptions to constraints can help to prevent too much of a good thing.
Mutants&Masterminds: It's a sweet spot in several ways. Most any ability can be modeled using its system, play is smooth if a bit of a death-spiral, and there are a few people out there converting EVERYTHING into M&M stats. Problems with the system include a need to detail the effects of descriptors for a given game, the placing of low cost/large effect powers e.g. Movement in context, that attributes may as well not be used in lieu of a character being defined solely with effects, and that certain skills are doing a lot of heavy lifting. I ran a Rifts game in M&M3 for some time which went well enough.
Champions/HERO: What things HERO does better than M&M are largely offset by gaming artefacts. Games which run more smoothly than clunky character sheets and an onerous creation process might suggest are something PB already knows about, and a bunch of derived stats and hex grids aren't going to speed up play.
Lords of Gossamer: As essentially a spit polish of Amber there is a fun Wujcik cross-genre&cross-system angle worth noticing. I'd argue that, were people to compile a list of necessary elements in a game for it to still be considered Palladium that the use of dice would rank up there, and so LoG is a bit of a hard sell.
Mythic d6: I know little about this, and would be interested in hearing others' experience. I'm not the biggest fan of dice pools as an RNG, but that's very much a vestige of pre-virtual tabletop gaming. These days use of dice in general seems a bit of an atavism. Perhaps there's a market for a stone/sandalpunk game which uses actual knucklebones.
Prowlers & Paragons: Pre-created powers are useful for a game with such a deliberate focus on players' narrative agency. The skill(Talent) list is even more abstracted than in M&M, and it uses dice pools. The game occupies an interesting space in between M&M and PbtA, in a way. Much like SWEX Rifts, P&P was Sean Patrick Fannon's baby, and to the extent he is persona non grata any inspiration derived thereof might best be done obliquely.

Maybe instead of a new edition Palladium, and by extension Heroes Unlimited, could benefit from something akin to a SRD. Sure, there are minor differences between books, many of which, some like to perhaps disingenuously argue, are less the result of a casual approach to editing than reflective of Megaversal constants. A competently compiled reference, made available online, would not only eliminate much of the petty argument for which this forum is considered a bit of a punchline, but facilitate the release of licensed third party material. It's not as if PB's production schedule is ever going to speed up, but there are still people writing fan material. Getting a cut of a print-on-demand Paladin Steel sourcebook published under a Megaversal Engine license means more profit than crossing collective fingers over PB swinging a Rifter Annual to supplement reprinted hardcovers and pencil sets.

[Rogerd]

There aren't a lot of responses to the thread here, so this is hardly conclusive. And one person did comment on the great amount of categories and variety you have with Heroes Unlimited. And faults of some of the other systems were mentioned. My preference is for Heroes Unlimited, updated to third or just streamlined a bit.

And that is precisely why I posted it.
People have a lot of nostalgia for HU, and would love to play a more streamlined version, with fixed system issues.
Heck, the more I think about it I want to run a Palladium Fantasy Game (not on Palladium though), with HU options on top - such that the basic classes exist but with things like Ancient Weapon, Weapon Master etc as a greater template to which heroes can aspire to.

[Rogerd]

I'm a little disappointed "Role, not rollplayer" edged out Objectivist parroting as the cherry on this complete lack of sundae.

Superficial comments on the games mentioned upthread, occasionally in relation to the Palladium system:

AGE: I hadn't checked this out since the initial video game adaptation. It's nice! I like how the Lazarus and Threefold setting books themselves hit a lot of stylistic elements one might see in a Rifts game. The ability to further subdivide a focus is probably a good way to entice players interested in even four color games having huge skill lists. The usage and presentation of different rules for pulp/gritty/cinematic games is a more approachable method than other systems' full-on kitchen sink, and is a decent model for how a revamped Megaversal System might do the same.
SWADE: There's a neat contrast between this and Modern AGE. The Iconic Framework captures much of the role protection Palladium attempts via power categories/*CCs, while tying it effectively to exclusive abilities. Modern AGE largely forgoes this in favor of delineation via background/profession/drive, which works better for certain character concepts than others. I generally like being able to estimate a given action's chance of success, which is made more difficult with swingy resolution methods. The epicycles endemic to exploding dice systems favor "better lucky than good" style play, which given the gonzo nature of some Palladium settings charitably qualifies as genre emulation.
GURPS: As toolsets go it's one of the most customizable, and regardless of what system a given game utilizes setting research often begins with seeing what GURPS has to say about it. It seems almost counterintuitive, but the flexibility available usually leads to option paralysis. If you've seen how posters here passive-aggressively use the term "house rules" it's clear that instead defining a system in terms of exceptions to constraints can help to prevent too much of a good thing.
Mutants&Masterminds: It's a sweet spot in several ways. Most any ability can be modeled using its system, play is smooth if a bit of a death-spiral, and there are a few people out there converting EVERYTHING into M&M stats. Problems with the system include a need to detail the effects of descriptors for a given game, the placing of low cost/large effect powers e.g. Movement in context, that attributes may as well not be used in lieu of a character being defined solely with effects, and that certain skills are doing a lot of heavy lifting. I ran a Rifts game in M&M3 for some time which went well enough.
Champions/HERO: What things HERO does better than M&M are largely offset by gaming artefacts. Games which run more smoothly than clunky character sheets and an onerous creation process might suggest are something PB already knows about, and a bunch of derived stats and hex grids aren't going to speed up play.
Lords of Gossamer: As essentially a spit polish of Amber there is a fun Wujcik cross-genre&cross-system angle worth noticing. I'd argue that, were people to compile a list of necessary elements in a game for it to still be considered Palladium that the use of dice would rank up there, and so LoG is a bit of a hard sell.
Mythic d6: I know little about this, and would be interested in hearing others' experience. I'm not the biggest fan of dice pools as an RNG, but that's very much a vestige of pre-virtual tabletop gaming. These days use of dice in general seems a bit of an atavism. Perhaps there's a market for a stone/sandalpunk game which uses actual knucklebones.
Prowlers & Paragons: Pre-created powers are useful for a game with such a deliberate focus on players' narrative agency. The skill(Talent) list is even more abstracted than in M&M, and it uses dice pools. The game occupies an interesting space in between M&M and PbtA, in a way. Much like SWEX Rifts, P&P was Sean Patrick Fannon's baby, and to the extent he is persona non grata any inspiration derived thereof might best be done obliquely.

Maybe instead of a new edition Palladium, and by extension Heroes Unlimited, could benefit from something akin to a SRD. Sure, there are minor differences between books, many of which, some like to perhaps disingenuously argue, are less the result of a casual approach to editing than reflective of Megaversal constants. A competently compiled reference, made available online, would not only eliminate much of the petty argument for which this forum is considered a bit of a punchline, but facilitate the release of licensed third party material. It's not as if PB's production schedule is ever going to speed up, but there are still people writing fan material. Getting a cut of a print-on-demand Paladin Steel sourcebook published under a Megaversal Engine license means more profit than crossing collective fingers over PB swinging a Rifter Annual to supplement reprinted hardcovers and pencil sets.

This is an amazing summation got to say. Kudos my man, kudos.

Age
The Metacosm setting in Threefold is utterly amazing, and for any Palladium fans, this is well worth checking out and could easily be included in a Megaverse game. And my goodness you are right about the level of games between gritty, pulp, and cinematic - that would be a perfect fit for the different levels of game.

What is also does is not delineate on enhancements, such that they cost the same whether magic, psychic, superpowers, or technology. So while different abilities will cost differently, the source is irrelevant.

For those that do not know; each type of games as a multiplier on an enhancement (or power). Gritty x2, Pulp x 10, and Cinematic x100. A nice simple and easy way to set the level of the game to your tastes.

There is also a Modern Age: Powers due out sometime next year, which I believe will further go into each category in detail.

SWADE
This system is constantly getting stronger, and better. As well as doing Rifts, they have now bagged Pathfinder showing that they can do high power fantasy. There is also a Swade: Martial Arts which I anticipate will be very similar to Gurps Martial Arts. Only they are likely to take the good, and make it better (in my opinion), and skip the bad stuff.

And there are a lot of settings that could easily be used into any Savage Worlds game, not all are Swade compliant, but with a little effort that would not be difficult.

Lastly there is also a Swade: Powers out next year too, for full four colour superheroes which basic Swade cannot do. With with it doing Rifts, there is the mega-damage mechanic in there, though to be honest until Curbludgeon had point it out, the Age method is far superior.

Mythic d6
I recommend nipping over the rpg.net as Jerry Grayson took a lot of Legendary d6, stripped out the stuff he did not like and kept the stuff for superhero type games. an example of this being Godsend Agenda, and absolut4ely wicked blend of Atlanteans, Superheroes and Mythic gods (they're aliens) all battling it out for control of the Earth, with the arrival of another alien faction (some crashed earlier in human history and were the mythical monsters of old).

Gurps
Yeah, this is a totally bespoke system, take what you want, discard the rest. It has stuff galore from which you can steal. A lot of people while loving the 4e Infinite Worlds setting, also love 3e Cabal with a neat mix of the supernatural too boot which can be incorporated into the Infinite Worlds really easily. With the Four 'Worlds', essentially the Kabbalah.

Champions
For me Champions, while structurally similar to Gurps in many ways, the maths, sheesh the maths just made me run a mile. Some pople grokk it, some do not. That said some of the setting books, and ideas are utterly invaluable.

Atlantean Age, Valdorian Age, Tuala Morn etc.
It even gets the Gurps Cabal Kabbalah cosmology, runs with it, and makes it better. And could easily be incorporated into the Megaverse. All the gods, including the Monotheistic ones reside in the Astral Plane (which in the Megaverse has Kingdoms, Realms etc) and could easily incorporate this, and it is also where the dead go too.

The afterlife being in the Astral is also present in Dnd 4e, which utterly remove the Wheel system cosmology, which was based on alignment.

Utterly brilliant.

Mutants & Masterminds
Now 2e adhered to the D20 DnD3e type stats, while M&M 3e clove that away and did its own thing. While it has a large array of powers - and although not as many as Heroes Unlimited, the powers are essentially a toolkit allowing me to create any type of power imaginable, and again does not distinguish whether magic, superpower, psychic, or training. But like Age, this is made by Green Ronin.

DnD 5e
I am not a fan of the mechanics, it is true. But 5e is so much hot sh *t right now. There are a plethora of great settings for this game such as Esper Genesis (I totally love this setting), and Starfinder (although technically Pathfinder 1e) elements could easily be incorporated into a Palladium game. Alessia setting is amazing, and each setting book is best thought as a plane unto itself.

Plus there are a load of upcoming setting books due out soon, they're in Kickstarter, and are well worth a look. Including the Epic Characters and stuff which takes DnD 5e and dials to 11!

Maybe instead of a new edition Palladium, and by extension Heroes Unlimited, could benefit from something akin to a SRD.

All of my yes here.
It can correct anything needed, and in a sense be a bridge point between any possible 3e of the game. Kind of Unearthed Arcana is for 5e I guess?

[Borast]

Based on personal experience, if you make it a points based system, you have everyone min-maxing for maximum damage.

While you can do that with any Pally system, it's not necessarily as easy.

Perfect example I can think of involved a LEGAL 1st level character in Hackmaster - str & dex in the high 20's, and able to take out a small city solo. In a social situation, he was a 100% liability. (Cha as low as it can be.)

Now that is one system I am not familiar with so I cannot comment on.
That said though, some PB skills everyone has, e.g. boxing, as the benefits are too good to pass up.

Think AD&D 2nd Edition, using Skills & Powers.

[Rogerd]

Based on personal experience, if you make it a points based system, you have everyone min-maxing for maximum damage.

While you can do that with any Pally system, it's not necessarily as easy.

Perfect example I can think of involved a LEGAL 1st level character in Hackmaster - str & dex in the high 20's, and able to take out a small city solo. In a social situation, he was a 100% liability. (Cha as low as it can be.)

Now that is one system I am not familiar with so I cannot comment on.
That said though, some PB skills everyone has, e.g. boxing, as the benefits are too good to pass up.

Think AD&D 2nd Edition, using Skills & Powers.

OMGoodness! That sounds terrible, but a system called Hackmaster would you expect anything else lol

[matt.reed]

I think Hackmaster borrowed some of Palladium goodness since Kev and Jolly are good friends. I think that's where the active defense comes from. Its definitely pretty minutiae based though, and I'm not sure I'd play it, but I do like the running count for initiative.