Multiple HtH/MAs

[Sohisohi]

What benefit, if any, is there in taking multiple HtH fighting styles. I was under the impression that these bonuses never actually stacked between fighting styles.

and is there a hard limit to how many you can take, or can a player keep using skills selections until taking them all?

[drewkitty ~..~]

There are two answers that are applicable across the PB game system to this...

➣A character can Only have One Hand to Hand. If the Char takes a new H2H, it fully replaces the old H2H.

➢The bonuses from Martial Arts Forms [MAF's] (N&S and MC) Do Not Stack-Combine with each other. All the bonuses remaining separate. Mostly the limit to how many a char can have is what class the char has (there is a very limited set of chars that can have multiple MAFs) and the number of years that char devoted to learning any MAFs.

➫The exception to these comes from Rifts China where there are a few Classes that can take a Rifts China mundane Fighting Form and take a Rifts China mystic Fighting Form. Since it's Rifts China, a almost separate game, the fighting forms from RC are limited to Rifts China chars.
(Note that the Rifts China mystic Fighting Forms can be conceded to be Psionic Fighting Form due to the fact that they use ISP.)

[Kraynic]

Depending on what you are playing, there is a 3rd possibility that Drewkitty didn't bring up. In the Fantasy 1E game, there was a form of HtH for non-men of arms O.C.C.s and all other forms of HtH skill were specific to the various forms of men of arms. If you started out as a Mind Mage with the non-men of arms HtH and then at some point later became a Soldier, you would have both forms of HtH. In that case, you would use whichever bonus was higher. Soldiers have a faster progression (and higher cap) on attacks per melee, a wider critical hit chance, the ability to stun, and higher bonuses to damage. However, in that system, it is pretty dependent on what O.C.C.s (and related HtH skills) you have picked up. There might be a pretty extensive improvement as the second HtH skill leveled up, or the difference might be pretty small.

[Soldier of Od]

In addition to Kraynic's comments, I have always assumed the same goes for Palladium Fantasy second edition. If your first O.C.C. had Hand to Hand: Assassin at level 4, and then you change O.C.C.s to Merchant and get Hand to Hand: Basic, at level one your +2 to pull punch and roll will add nothing, as you already had +3 from H to H: Assassin, but at level two you will get a +2 to parry and dodge that you didn't previously have. Hand to Hand combat skills aren't specifically mentioned in the rules for changing O.C.C.s in High Seas, but this fits with the rules on duplicate skills and O.C.C. bonuses - the player draws from both, and uses the higher of the two when a bonus is repeated. Hope that helps.

[Killer Cyborg]

What benefit, if any, is there in taking multiple HtH fighting styles.

The advantage is that you can change styles depending on situation, as different styles have different bonuses and maneuvers and such.
You can see this happen in old Kung Fu movies, where two guys will square off, fight for a bit, then one of them will say something like "Ah, your kung fu is strong! But can you defeat my Drunken Mantis style?" Then the other dude starts to lose, but realizes that he can counter Drunken Mantis by switching to Big Willie Style or whatever.

In game terms, a character might have one style that has poor defense, but lots of attacks, and another style that has excellent defense, but only 1-2 attacks per melee.
So in situations where defense isn't as big of an issue, like fighting a single opponent who doesn't have high defensive bonuses, the character could use the more aggressive style, and dispatch the opponent more quickly.
But if 2-3 of the enemy's friends show up, the character might have to switch to his defensive style just to hold his own until his own friends show up to help.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Depending on what you are playing, there is a 3rd possibility that Drewkitty didn't bring up. ...snip

And I didn't bring up any PF1 rules cause they are not a part of the current canon.

[Kraynic]

And I didn't bring up any PF1 rules cause they are not a part of the current canon.

And yet people are still using those rules in games today, and the hardcover reprint of that set of rules is (so far) being released for sale later this month.

I wasn't attacking your post, simply adding to it.

[drewkitty ~..~]

And I didn't bring up any PF1 rules cause they are not a part of the current canon.

And yet people are still using those rules in games today, and the hardcover reprint of that set of rules is (so far) being released for sale later this month.


I wasn't attacking your post, simply adding to it.

And you presented the PF1 situation as if it was a part of the current cannon. Which PF1 is not. Which is why I said my supplemental text as I did.
(*points at self* is OCD about words. so I might of picked up some subtext that was there unintentionally.)

It had nothing to do with people preference for the old version of the PF RPG game over the current version of the game.

[Kraynic]

And you presented the PF1 situation as if it was a part of the current cannon. Which PF1 is not. Which is why I said my supplemental text as I did.
(*points at self* is OCD about words. so I might of picked up some subtext that was there unintentionally.)

It had nothing to do with people preference for the old version of the PF RPG game over the current version of the game.

It doesn't matter whether it is "part of the current cannon". As far as I can tell, the OP has not specified which system/setting they are running. Any answer that applies to the Palladium system is absolutely valid, and may apply to what they run now or in the future.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Sorry you feel that way, but not answering the questions with the canon answer is just telling people your house rule about something. No matter how to fram it in retoric to make it look nice.

And now, that we have gone through our stances we can just drop the argument cause arguing over this would just confuse any newb who might read this.

[Kraynic]

Sorry you feel that way, but not answering the questions with the canon answer is just telling people your house rule about something. No matter how to fram it in retoric to make it look nice.

And now, that we have gone through our stances we can just drop the argument cause arguing over this would just confuse any newb who might read this.

I guess I don't see how stating a published rule is equal to stating a houserule. I was totally up front with which system it came from.

[Curbludgeon]

Kraynic, you were absolutely clear, and provided all necessary context.

(I'm willing to get into page citations in good faith, with the understanding that goes both ways.)

Sohisohi, There are limited cases where having access to multiple methods is even possible, even across multiple editions.

• PFRPG 1st edition details switching between O.C.C.s, by which characters may learn multiple H2H. 2nd edition functions as Soldier of Od posted above, with the current canon rules for dual O.C.C.s being found in the issued Errata
• The first version of Ninjas & Superspies details how a Dedicated Martial Artist can select up to three Martial Art Forms, while the Revised edition reduces this to two. The rules in the Revised book regarding converting a Heroes Unlimited Ancient Master contradict themselves, perhaps due to this version change, and can be interpreted to grant either two or three Martial Art Forms. Similarly, Mystic China's Open Hand Martial Artist details selecting two Martial Art Forms. The Antiquarian and Chi Arcanist classes have advancement in one Martial Art Form frozen at character creation, for which a common house rule is to use a secondary skill slot to acquire Hand to Hand:Basic. In addition, Martial Art Forms have a Skill Cost, listed in years of study required. Many apply this to help determine the possible starting age of a character while not using it as an option by which additional forms may be learned, but there's a good argument such is applicable, at least in games spanning decades.
• Several of the classes in Rifts World Book 25:China 2 select a Hand to Hand Martial Arts Skill as well as a Mystic Martial Art Power. The Meditative Martial Warrior selects two Hand to Hand Martial Arts Skills, while the Monk of the Open Hand has a unique combined Hand to Hand Martial Art Skill/Mystic Martial Art Power/Sense and Manipulate Chi ability.
• NPC Tengu from Rifts World Book 8:Japan of 6th level or higher can learn 2 Hand to Hand Martial Arts. Additionally, the Cyber-Samurai in the same book is a funny case: while other *.C.C. are written in that book as able to "change" their Hand to Hand at the cost of ""other" skills" or in some cases be "replaced" at no skill cost, the Cyber-Samurai instead can "learn" a different sword-based style, while their archery-based selection is instead able to be "changed." Good luck selling that one at most tables.

The above doesn't include skills such as Boxing, Wrestling and Rifts China's Demon Wrestling, which can be taken in conjunction with the above.

Even in the cases where multiple H2H/MAFs are available, whether or not a bonus stacks varies.

• PFRPG has only the highest bonus for a given value apply across available H2H skills.
• N&SS Revised has only the bonuses from the current Martial Arts Form apply, with forms switchable on a per round basis. It seems reasonable to apply this to an HU Ancient Master using the N&SS rules. Bonuses to attributes, S.D.C., and H.P. apply across all forms, as well as all bonuses derived from Body Hardening Exercises. Bonuses to Chi carry over, save in the case of when 2 forms give a multiplier to Chi at the same level, in which case only one applies. Also, the forms "Moo Gi Gong" and "Hwarang-Do" can be used simultaneously for many purposes.
• Rifts China simply states that "ALL bonuses are accumulative". The class description leaves it ambiguous if the "Nei Chia Wu Shih" Meditative Martial Warrior should be presumed to switch between Hand to Hand Martial Art Skills on a per round basis, but it would be a bit excessive if the class didn't.
• I don't have a readily available copy of the original N&SS, and I don't give a hoot about NPC Tengu.