More TK questions

[Veknironth]

Well, in the description of the spell in the main book on p193, the power makes sense. There is a weight limit to the objects you can pick up and a duration of the spell effect. That's rather clean. However, the psionic version on p167 throws a wrinkle of being able to pick up heavier objects with the expenditure of more ISP.

So, if you trigger the power to pick up a 125lb object at the cost of 19 ISP, does that mean you now have the ability to pick up obects of that mass or lower until it expires? If you want to pick up a heavier object minutes into the power's duration do you have to add ISP, and if you do does that refresh the duration, even though you only spent the difference? For example, a 3rd level psionicist picks up a 125lb object for 19 ISP. The duration is 6 minutes. So if this person wants to pick up an object weighing 145lbs would he or she add 2 more ISP, or have to spend 21 ISP? If they add the 2, does that restart the duration at 6 minutes or just keep the countdown of the original use of the power? Can you just start the power up using 21 ISP to be able to lift 145lb objects without there being one around? Like you just power up and have 6 minutes to do whatever you like with anyting up to 145lbs?

If you use a weapon, it does the damage of the weapon. So, if you use the base expenditure of ISP, 8 in this instance, and you use it to hurl a spear at someone, it will do the damage of the spear. But what if you use more ISP? Can you throw it harder and do more damage? The range is 30ft for a medium sized object, like a spear. So if you move it towards someone who is 31 feet away, would you just make a strike roll like normal but not be able to affect the spear once it's out of your range? Could you throw it farther using more ISP? Even if you have a heavier object with a measley 15 foot range, could you lob it at a 45 degree angle and thus throw it farther? Or, does the power ignore Newtonian physics?

If the psionicist uses TK to pick up a weapon and attack someone with it, what is that person to do? They can parry or dodge the attack, but can they attack back at the weapon? How does that work via the rules? Can the person using TK have the weapon parry or dodge? If it parries does the weapon still take damage? If you're using a solid metal sword to parry an attack is that different than someone attacking the weapon? Can't the person with TK just let the attack on the weapon hit and not offer resistance, thus limiting the impact?

Finally, what happens if someone grab's the TK influenced weapon? Does that person's aura overtake the weapon and now the TK won't work on it? Is there a struggle for control? Can the psionicist put in more ISP to fight back against a stronge opponent? If they grab the hilt of a sword, can the psionicist just move the tip of the blade at them, focusing all of their power on that point without fear of being cut?

-Vek
"I don't want TK to be overpowered."

[kiralon]

I would say if you want to pick up something heavier spend the isp again, so if you want a stronger "tk arm" you need to make one so spend the total isp needed. Id allow the old one to continue going too so 2 (or 1 per activation) separate things could be grabbed but only one controlled at a time, with a potential perk bonuses.
For simplicity I would not do extra damage, you want to hit someone with a spear, throw it, however if the players did the math for the damage bonus for ps going by weith limit in under 10 seconds i would go with that, over 10 seconds and no joy, also Targetting stuff would be wonky due to perspective issues. I'd also have any successful strike against a held weapon knock it of of the tk grasp if the strike hit, but if it was dodged it would stay in the tkhand of the caster as tk doesn't seem like it's made for fine tool usage, as for someone else grabbing it, i would go by the aura of the person stops the tk if a save is made, and if not then the PS weight limit vs tk weigh limit with so the tk person could pick the weapon up into the air and the normal person could keep hold of it and go for a fly.

For range id use the strength chart or the chart on page 61 of the 2nd ed main book



But the real answer is
Mind Mages die by meteor at 5 seconds into the game, so it doesn't matter

[ShadowLogan]

1. For simplicity yeah, I would allow the ISP to be added in, but it wouldn't reset the duration.

2. Adding ISP expenditure won't do anything to the damage, though if you're looking for justification just look at the PS score Lift/Carry values when damage bonuses kick in. You need a PS of 16 (min value on chart pg16), which equates to 160lbs of Lift for a measly +1 damage, you'd have to spend ~23ISP you'd be better of just using "Mind Bolt" (better range and damage). I would allow TK range to extend the range (additive), if you really wanted to increase the range, yeah trajectories would be the way to go.

3. The target can dodge/parry and yes, they can attack the TK-Weapon or the psychic just as normal. Yes, the Psionic can have the weapon parry (they get a bonus) and dodge (no bonus). In order for the TK-Weapon to not take damage they would have to make a successful parry, just like in unarmed combat (you parry a punch you don't take damage, same thing IMHO).

4. I don't think the person's aura cancels out TK field in place (unless the psychic releases it), otherwise TK animated weapons would not be a viable tactic (ie Bob just grabs the TK-sword out of the air). Yes, if it comes down to a contest of "strength" to control the weapon, the psychic could pump in more ISP to compensate since their "PS" score is pretty low (based on ISP lift/carry amount).

[Soldier of Od]

Here's my take on it:

Once you have activated/"cast" the ability, you can't add to it. It is not normal in Palladium for psionics and spells to allow you to add to their capabilities after they have been activated. If you want to lift something heavier, then you have to would have to cast it again from scratch.

Yes, you can activate the power without using any of your actions to actually move anything.

I say you can't "throw" anything outside of the power's range using telekinesis. As you move things around within the radius of the power, it may look as if they are being thrown, but it is really being moved along by the power, only mimicking the appearance of a throw. You can "hurl" things around within the radius of the power, no problem, but as soon as you cancel the power or "let go" of the item, it just falls to the ground.

I would not allow you to do more damage with a weapon by adding I.S.P. You can't make a 4lb, 2D4 damage object do 4D6 damage as if it was a large (26+lb) object, so I would say it is the same for weapons. It might make sense as a cool thing for the power to be able to do, but it looks like that's not how this one works.

I say that the psionicist could make a "dodge" for the weapon to move it out of the way if it was being targeted. Unfortunately, I don't know where you might find S.D.C. amounts for weapons in Palladium, if they exist at all! Swords can parry without taking damage whether wielded by telekinesis or by hand. Note that parrying with a telekinetically controlled weapon would take up an action by the controller - it is not an "automatic parry", but a "telekinetic feat".

I think the "aura" thing about telekinesis an such is only a (cool) house rule, not an official Pallidum rule, so I don't have an answer regarding that. It is up to you how you apply it. Regarding someone grabbing the item (or resisting an item being pulled from their hand), we house ruled that the telekinesis acts as if it has the equivalent P.S. to an individual carrying the weight allowed by the amount of I.S.P. used. E.g., if you pumped 19 I.S.P. into the power, enabling them to move a 125lb object, that is the equivalent of a person with a P.S. of 13 (rounding up), because they can carry 130lb. Unfortunately, there are no rules in Palladium about contested attribute challenges (like a "tug-of-war" such as this) either, so what you do with this information once you have it is also up to you! Strongest "P.S." wins is the simplest way.

I hope that helps!

[kiralon]

The aura thing is to stop people picking you up by your eyeballs, or your armour telekinetically, because it makes it way over powerful if you allow the, i pick you up, turn you around and reverse you onto my sword or just continually pick you up high and drop you.

[drewkitty ~..~]

(Since it is one of Vek's long form Question posts...I have the OP open in a 2nd window while typing in the full editor.)

So long as the weight limit is not exceeded the Psion should be pick up/let go of multiple items through out the duration of the power. Limits? level> IQ? PP? ME? However, GM willingness is the most limiting factor.

Spoiler:

I had a Char with hyper TK and we needed to search a pit full of books for one particular book.. I had my char using his STK to fly the books out of the pit and stack them around the room. Sorting them by the color of their covers, till we found the book we were looking for.

Boosting the weight limit mid duration.....I would allow this, but it would only refresh the duration...at most. So if the Psion boosted the power mid-duration they would only get (at most) the full duration from the boost point in time.
To get this refreashing, I would have the Psionic char would need to pay the boost cost with a 5%-10% additional cost to also to also refresh the duration.

Does the thrown damage/range of the weapon used via TK change if using extra TK to weird it?
Short answer: No to both.


Throw Spears will only do spear damage if throw via TK. This answer is the compliance with the standard rules set.

If you are throwing the spear with TK it will be thrown. However, GMs get/have to make up their own rules for this, because the published rules only cover the object being 'pushed fast' out to the edge of the range.
(I've known GMs to make the TK spell drop a object to a dead stop once it exits the range of the spell.)

Targets of TKed weapons Dodge/Parry as normal
(SDC values of weapons can be found in the Weapons Compendiums.)
A weapon only takes damage if the weapon itself is attacked. The rules are silent on weapon combat when at least one is controlled remotely via TK. I would suspect that there will be a TK combat skill will be written up soon.

If the weapon being remotely operated via TK is grabbed.....
No, The TK control over the weapon is not 'Negated' by the aura of the grabber.
It would act like a dancing blade that is tethered to where it is being grabbed and able to strike at the one trying to control it via physical str.

[Veknironth]

Well, here's another question. If the psionicist is under the effects of Invisibility: Simple and uses TK to attack someone with a weapon that was on his or her body when the invisibility was cast, does that weapon become visible or remain invisible? On page 193, the spell description states, "any item on his person that is dropped becomes invisible". The TK item is neither on your person nor is it dropped. Thoughts?

-Vek
"I'm going to give Drewkitty an ulcer."

[kiralon]

As the item isn't on your person anymore it would turn visible, because picking up something telekinetically and turning invisible wouldn't turn the item invisible either as it's not on your person.

[Veknironth]

Well, here are even more TK questions. How much control over a flimsy item does the person have? Could you effectively throw a net? Could you make a flag wave in a particular manner? If you hold up fabric, how large of a piece can you keep open? You wouldn't be limited by wingspan, so is it just weight? Could you wrap a blanket around someone?

I don't mean to work around Mark's aura, but could you have a lasso wrap around a living creature and then use the rope to pull them?
-Vek
"Sorry, Mark."

[Library Ogre]

Well, here are even more TK questions. How much control over a flimsy item does the person have? Could you effectively throw a net? Could you make a flag wave in a particular manner? If you hold up fabric, how large of a piece can you keep open? You wouldn't be limited by wingspan, so is it just weight? Could you wrap a blanket around someone?

I don't mean to work around Mark's aura, but could you have a lasso wrap around a living creature and then use the rope to pull them?
-Vek
"Sorry, Mark."

I tend to view TK as having two basic forms... "arm" and "bowl". An arm can pick up an item; a bowl can pick up several nearby items.

I'd let you throw a net or wave a flag. Keeping a piece of fabric open as wings isn't going to be limited by the weight of the fabric, but also by the weight of everything attached to it... and that's going to be the limitation of a blanket or a lasso... unless you've given them way more strength than they need, your blanket will be quickly overwhelmed by anyone with a modicum of strength.

[Veknironth]

Well, I meant the fabric as either a moving wall to block line of sight for casters, or as a way to wrap around an invisible being so that others could see it.

-Vek
"Just wonder how large of a fabric wall the person could manipulate."

[Library Ogre]

-Vek
"Just wonder how large of a fabric wall the person could manipulate."

I'd go with by weight. They are lifting the item by the aura; I'd let them have a "curtain rod" more or less.