PF Plus 5e?

[Levi]

A couple years ago when my then 9 year old was getting interested in role-playing games I decided to give DnD 5e a shot. It seems a lot simpler to understand and the electronic tools looked promising. Now, a little over two years later, I think that was a great call.

I have never been a fan of DnD. And until 5e I felt the rule sets were complete crap. However, 5e is pretty good. I do still prefer Palladium Fantasy overall by a lot and miss playing it. The deeper character development with more skills, spells, and powers are a huge win for PF as well as the “active” defense. For those that don’t play DnD, you don’t get to role for parry or dodge, your Armor Class (AC) dictates if you are hit and take damage. Simpler to teach and play but not as fun or cool in my opinion.

Another thing I really like with 5e, the digital tools. DnD Beyond is great. With the simpler character creation to begin with and their system, you can build characters in minutes. I have only bought digital books, I have all of my players in my DnD Beyond campaigns for managing their stats, exp, and items, as well as sharing content I have purchased. I really wish PB would get on board with a system like this. Although the character creation would be tough as it is so much more complicated in PF than in DnD.

All of that said, I still look forward to playing PF again. This post is not intended to debate DnD 5e vs. PF. They both have some strong pros and cons.

What I would like to ask for anyone here with 5e experience; what elements of the game or mechanics would you want to bring into PF? Not the electronics tools though. Any character concepts, powers, spells, feats, or anything else you think would be cool to have in PF? ***Please no actual conversions of these things in the thread. I think that violates the Forums policies.***

For myself, I have always thought PF could benefit from skill packages like in Ninjas and Super Spies to make characters a little more unique and not have to create more OCCs. The concepts of subclasses in 5e seems to work pretty well for that. I would like to see some subclasses for PF OCCs with groups of skills/powers/abilities to diversify OCCs without have to create more of them. Did we really need Paladin, Knight, Soldier, and Mercenary? They are all just fighters with some shifts in background and skills. I think those could have been easily managed with subclasses.

What else?

[Veknironth]

Well, I guess I do like the advantage/disadvantage mechanic. I don't care for how it's used for everything in 5E, but I imagine there can be uses for it in PFRPG.

-Vek
"That's about it."

[kiralon]

Note, i play a Homebrew version of first ed palladium
What I dragged over from dnd
2nd ed - the magic system (as an extra option), 5e would likely work too but I am much more familiar with 2nd ed, Called Magus instead of wizard but same skill set
Perks, this is part 3.5 and part fallout and part homebrew, players get perks most level.
Different HP per level 1d6 for wizards, 1d8 for fighters (and for big monsters 1d6 bonus per 6ft over 7ft) per level
Cleric, uses 2nd ed dnd cleric magic system, mostly same skillset as priest.
attacks of opportunity
counterspelling, if you have clear schools you can use a spell of the opposite school to counterspell. Casting a spell as a counterspell isnt the same as casting it for real, no m component, can be a quick action (can be used any time in the round but replaces you move action for the round so if you counter spell you can have your action as normal but cannot move) and the spell to cast counterspell is used up as per normal.
Negatives to things from low stats

I nicked lots of other stuff from other games too.

[Whiskeyjack]

The main things I like in 5e are the opposed rules. Nice and easy to see who notices what.
I also like that the spells are pretty clear cut as to what they do, unlike Palladium where most of the description is grey area.

[Levi]

Vek, I do like the advantage/disadvantage mechanic some too. I also agree it is used to widely in place of more reasonable bonuses or penalties. Adding that to PF in some form could be cool.

Kiralon, that is scattered list across a few versions of DnD. Some of those were a little too complicated or convoluted in their implementation. Perks might be cool. At way of incorporating more counter spell magic into the current classes could be fun too. But done right it could probably add some good flavor to the game.

Whiskeyjack, the opposed roles for many skills and checks is something I have already done for PF before I ever played 5e. That is a good suggestion clearly.

To do opposed rolls for things like stealth vs perception or concealment vs detect concealment for example, I convert the characters skill% by dividing by 5 rounding down or dropping fractions. This gives a number to use as the d20 roll bonus for each character. Higher with bonus wins.

Something else I just realized would be fun to bring over somehow would be Tiefling or Dragonborn. Dragonborn would be harder since they are partially based on DnD dragons which are completely different than Palladium dragons. I think with the far better psionic system in PF Mindflayers would be way cooler too. Not any more powerful psionics are wider, deeper, and cooler in PF.

[kiralon]

Funnily enough, after a bit of modification the changes have worked out pretty well, and as i have been playing for a fair amount of time all my players are used to the rules, especially considering it clears up a fair bit, and i have them written down so they can check.
I missed that the counterspell bit is an opposed roll, roll 1d20, add spell strength and willpower bonus (goes off PP chart and Wil is a stat rolled at character creation), whomever gets higher wins except defender always wins in case of tie.
Prysus has an interactive excel spreadsheet on drivethurpg that works well for second ed https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/27 ... cter-Sheet

[Library Ogre]

Advantage/Disadvantage would be a good, easy, option, instead of a huge number of modifiers.

I also think you might adapt the Proficiency Bonus to PF; rather than the discrete bonuses per WP, you could simply use the Proficiency Bonus, with increases at specific levels. You might even entirely replace hand to hand skills with them, but I think that would be more difficult and less rewarding.

[Rogerd]

For those that don’t play DnD, you don’t get to role for parry or dodge, your Armor Class (AC) dictates if you are hit and take damage. Simpler to teach and play but not as fun or cool in my opinion.

It is a quicker resolve, and obviously does not constitute one hit, but an exchange of strikes, parries and dodges.

I have never been a fan of DnD. And until 5e I felt the rule sets were complete crap. However, 5e is pretty good. I do still prefer Palladium Fantasy overall by a lot and miss playing it. The deeper character development with more skills, spells, and powers are a huge win for PF as well as the “active” defense.

Absolutely nothing wrong in incorporating some of the stuff from PB Fantasy into your 5e, or vice versa.
The class writeups are better from PB Fantasy, as are some of addon for some of the classes, allowing a more bespoke feel so you can add on what you want. For instance having HTH: Martial Arts, Assasssin etc, would allow you to remove some of the class levelling from 5e.

So in my games I have Extraordinary Training category, which is not so much super powers, or magic, but is essentially training that allows them to push beyond normal limits (think Gurps Martial arts) - and any martial characters, Monk, Solider etc, to be useful with spell casters. But I have have a Gifted category to include various Paladin like abilities for those that get powers from an external source, e.g. gods. Obviously Magic, and Super Powers.

For myself, I have always thought PF could benefit from skill packages like in Ninjas and Super Spies to make characters a little more unique and not have to create more OCCs.

You don't so much need more OOC's, but allow you to bespoke existing ones, more. What I mean is this, I could have Monk A. He is a fighter, pure and simple, and is able to use a lot of different types of weapons, as well as the Military package. Monk B, well he has Intelligence and Espionage packages, so he is a more of a ninja / monk type.

I personally bring across the Weapon Groups, as I like them as it brings a lot of diversity into the weapons players can be skilled in. You can easily dispense with all the WP, and just keep one. The bonuses are the same, just to keep things even. I include skill packages in my Savage World games, as I think they can make some real variety in characters.

You could have a Soldier, with Intelligence, or Espionage. And have that explained away as part of their backstory.

Did we really need Paladin, Knight, Soldier, and Mercenary? They are all just fighters with some shifts in background and skills. I think those could have been easily managed with subclasses.

Not at all, completely superfluous. Now for my classes I have Archer, Assassin, Barbarian, Knight, Martial, Monk, Ranger, Rogue. I have retied both the Gladiator, and Paladin, as they are Barbarian or Knight, and form a as you say a subclass.

Something both PF 2e, and Age system, both do, is keep stats simple, in that instead of having Str 20, it would be Str +10. You can use this to include in any bonuses you want for dice rolling.

There are some truly amazing settings, that you could easily incorporate into a Palladium game, or vice versa.

The following products for 5e that are amazing: Esper Genesis, Arkadia, Svilland, Deep Magic, World of Alessia.

Midgard (what Palladium Fantasy should have been)
Magic the Gathering (various ones have been converted to 5e)
Spheres of Power (likn: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com)

Tales of Arcana: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/36 ... c=hottest; and Let's read: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads ... de.888483/

For you with a 9 year old, Tales of Arcana this would be a great tool. Want to play a transforming car, or a puppet - check. Yum-yums get a bit dark, food made to be eaten. But you could easily incorporate stats bonuses as is for your kids and inclusion into a PB Fantasy game. This setting does not take itself too seriously either, such that you can have fictional characters walking around too.

Tanares is in KS
Level UP is in KS
Planegea in KS
Planebreaker in KS
Redsky KS complete, and available for pre-order

And if you are liking 5e, it is so much hot stuff right now.

[The Dark Elf]

I run D&D 5e every week as well as a PB game. The main benefits of 5e are the wider covered rules (although quite simple) and most importantly the melee classes get to do special **** instead of just striking. Power wise the only thing that rally separates a paladins strike to another characters strike is a lucky attribute role (or race). Both have WP's, both can pick HTH martial arts, physical skills etc. The difference just isn't special enough and has a quick to bore combat experience. Need to be into the RP aspect. Chuck in a few special moves PFRPG!
I also like the varying types of damage (so having lots of different resistances) and the different saving throws are neat.

Also - lots the PFRPG does that D&D doesnt which I prefer.

[Rogerd]

I run D&D 5e every week as well as a PB game. The main benefits of 5e are the wider covered rules (although quite simple) and most importantly the melee classes get to do special **** instead of just striking. Power wise the only thing that rally separates a paladins strike to another characters strike is a lucky attribute role (or race). Both have WP's, both can pick HTH martial arts, physical skills etc. The difference just isn't special enough and has a quick to bore combat experience. Need to be into the RP aspect. Chuck in a few special moves PFRPG!

I also like the varying types of damage (so having lots of different resistances) and the different saving throws are neat.

Also - lots the PFRPG does that D&D doesnt which I prefer.

The HTH and WP's can to some extent that is covered by feats, although not as well. But this could easily be imported into 5e.
Thing that DnD 5e has are class powers - which as we have both said can be also be imported reasonably easily in PB Fantasy, and would make sense to include.

One of the best sources would be the Pathfinder books, Legendary Paladin, or Monk etc which list a wide array of abilities, coupled with Gurps Martial Arts, and maybe Runequest Legendary Abilities. Then you can have abilities which are merely exemplary training, and those that are essentially magic (chi related) like those from Legendary Monks.

Then just import from there. And maybe use the Age system for going from SDC upwards to dial your level of play without using the terrible Mega Damage stuff. Which while a good idea, is not executed well.

[Jerell]

I also think you might adapt the Proficiency Bonus to PF; rather than the discrete bonuses per WP, you could simply use the Proficiency Bonus, with increases at specific levels. You might even entirely replace hand to hand skills with them, but I think that would be more difficult and less rewarding.

I really like this idea. The one area I really think streamlining would be good.

[Levi]

Thanks for all of the additional input. I do like a lot of other settings out there from D&D and other games. I haven't ever actually used any of them though.

[Rogerd]

You know what would work great is Spelljammer.

Each setting is enclosed in a Crystal Sphere, and to travel to other planets you go via the astral (same as the upcoming new 5e Spelljammer).

[Borast]

You know what would work great is Spelljammer.

Each setting is enclosed in a Crystal Sphere, and to travel to other planets you go via the astral (same as the upcoming new 5e Spelljammer).

Erm... I agree, the setting is cool. But I'm pretty sure the phlogiston is not the Astral. If I recall (unless they made changes in later editions), all settings were on the same plane - more or less isolated, occasionally clustered, spheres of hollow crystal floating around a sea of combustible gas. And travel was using ships, ranging from ocean going vessels, to stylised "submarines" (the mind flayer's nautaloid comes to mind), to asteroid ships.

You had to actually break out of, or into the sphere, then travel to/from the setting world(s).

The "fun" part is that there are supposed to be spheres where the entire civilization is on the inner surface of the sphere (think a Dyson Sphere with a 50+AU interior diameter instead of the traditional 1-2AU), so breaking in, you could destroy an entire city!

[Rogerd]

Erm... I agree, the setting is cool. But I'm pretty sure the phlogiston is not the Astral. If I recall (unless they made changes in later editions), all settings were on the same plane - more or less isolated, occasionally clustered, spheres of hollow crystal floating around a sea of combustible gas. And travel was using ships, ranging from ocean going vessels, to stylised "submarines" (the mind flayer's nautaloid comes to mind), to asteroid ships.

You had to actually break out of, or into the sphere, then travel to/from the setting world(s).

The "fun" part is that there are supposed to be spheres where the entire civilization is on the inner surface of the sphere (think a Dyson Sphere with a 50+AU interior diameter instead of the traditional 1-2AU), so breaking in, you could destroy an entire city!

Apologies, my mistake.
Yeah, it used to via Phlogiston, but now in the upcoming new edition it is now via the astral plane. We don't have full specifics, but if you are interested, please see the two threads below.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/more-sp ... is.687744/
https://www.enworld.org/threads/beadle-grimm’s-spelljammer-adventures-in-space-platinum-edition.687832/