Worn magic items

[Veknironth]

Well, we had this happen in the game I'm in and I think I need a consensus. If you have a magic item that is a worn item (necklace, ring, bracers, etc.) does it have to be worn in the traditional area? Can you have a magic ring, but wear it on a string around your neck, or have it in your mouth, or even have swallowed it, and have it still function?

-Vek
"I say no. Else why specify the appearance of the item?"

[RockJock]

Nothing book legal, but we have always ruled if it is a metal magic ring you can get a "magic" chain and turn it into a necklace say with no difficulty, but you need a magic "string". For sure for other piercings, but our group would say no on the swallowing. No reason, just the way we have always dealt with it.

[kiralon]

I make it have to have same amount of contact with the body, so a ring would have to have a body part through it so in mouth would work if it was on tongue

[Soldier of Od]

I say no, too. Hanging a ring around your neck is not "wearing" it in the proper sense. Same for putting it in your mouth, or just holding or touching it - that is not wearing.

However, I would probably allow someone to "wear" an item on another part of their body, e.g. wearing a bracelet on an ankle, wrapping a necklace around the upper arm, wearing a ring on a tail, etc. The important thing being that a part of the body is going through the item, so it is "worn". But that is just a judgement call on my part, and not canon as far as I can see.

[drewkitty ~..~]

They have to be worn in some way or form.
Though foot gear worn on the hands does not give the bonus they would if worn normally.

This is one of the areas which the texts are written with presumptions made that the reader already "know" what the writer means.
-In that way of understanding the text...(finger) rings are to be worn on digit that fits, earrings in ears, foot gear on feet, bracers on arms, etc...

[ShadowLogan]

Well, we had this happen in the game I'm in and I think I need a consensus. If you have a magic item that is a worn item (necklace, ring, bracers, etc.) does it have to be worn in the traditional area? Can you have a magic ring, but wear it on a string around your neck, or have it in your mouth, or even have swallowed it, and have it still function?

-Vek
"I say no. Else why specify the appearance of the item?"

I think to use a magic item you have to be in a traditional area, though some items might have flexibility in terms of "traditional area". Rings and necklaces and bracelets do have options for traditional wearing that aren't in the typical location (Ring could be worn on the finger, but also the toes or ears).

For a magic ring, no I would not consider it usable if it was a on a string around your neck, same goes for swallowing it. Having it one's mouth depends on what you mean, as a body piercing (yes) but just in the mouth floating "free" (no).

Aren't there limits on the number of magic items you can wear that are active (I know you can't add duplicates).

[Veknironth]

Well, as far as I know, there is no limit to the number of magic items you can have on you. I also haven't read, or I don't remember reading, that you can't have duplicates. I thought you could have like a ring and a medallion of +1 to save vs spell magic, for example.

-Vek
"This is where someone shows me what I had already read and I am chagrined."

[drewkitty ~..~]

Well, as far as I know, there is no limit to the number of magic items you can have on you. I also haven't read, or I don't remember reading, that you can't have duplicates. I thought you could have like a ring and a medallion of +1 to save vs spell magic, for example.

-Vek
"This is where someone shows me what I had already read and I am chagrined."

Though most magic items that give a bonus to save vs "something', the text typically states that their bonuses are not cumulative.

[ShadowLogan]

Well, as far as I know, there is no limit to the number of magic items you can have on you. I also haven't read, or I don't remember reading, that you can't have duplicates. I thought you could have like a ring and a medallion of +1 to save vs spell magic, for example.

-Vek
"This is where someone shows me what I had already read and I am chagrined."

"(...) Further note that the effects of one such charm is not increased when several of the same item are worn. For example, a character could wear 20 rings or medallions that protect vs spell magic, but is still only +1 to save, the same as wearing one such item."- ​pg253 of PF2E Main Book, 2nd Paragraph in the [b]Magic Rings, Bracelets, Charms, & Medallions" section (it has 3 background paragraphs then goes into a (essentially) a list of spell options and the cost of said.

The way it reads to me is that you can't stack identical enchantments.

[Hotrod]

I wonder how many player characters end up looking like Mr. T?

I pity the fool who don't stack up their bonuses.

[ITWastrel]

To the original post, a magical item must be worn in it's intended manner to operate. Magical boots don't work on your hands, magic bracers won't work if you put them both on one arm, and a magic mask is useless belted to your waist. Rings need fingers.*


I do have a homebrewed common magical item I use. They're all too common in war-torn areas.

Widow's Chain
A widow's chain is fashioned from the cord used by a widow to hang her lost husband's wedding band around her neck. A second magical ring may be affixed to the chain, allowing full use of that ring as if it were worn on a hand.

Note that if the Husband's ring is removed from the chain it immediately loses all enchantment and becomes a simple ring and chain again.

Some Widow's Chains were created from Magical rings, those unique chains may have additional abilities.




*Tentacles are also usually acceptable as finger substitutes. Note that if a species lacks the appendages necessary to equip an item, such as boots for the legless or gloves and rings for the handless, that species is cannot use the item.

[Prysus]

Well, we had this happen in the game I'm in and I think I need a consensus. If you have a magic item that is a worn item (necklace, ring, bracers, etc.) does it have to be worn in the traditional area? Can you have a magic ring, but wear it on a string around your neck, or have it in your mouth, or even have swallowed it, and have it still function?

-Vek
"I say no. Else why specify the appearance of the item?"

Greetings and Salutations. This topic has never come up in any of my campaigns, but I have been giving it thought.

My first instinct was to say it has to be worn traditionally. But why? Because of magic is always an answer, but not a very satisfactory one.

I started thinking maybe it was just contact with the owner, and that would lead to unorthodox locations, smuggling in items, and general stealth. I don't think this would be particularly game breaking, and I'd be kind of okay with it.

But then I continued reading the thread and got a new idea, one I rather like so I'd probably go with it. This isn't supported by canon to my knowledge, and there's probably some stuff that actually contradicts it. But!

The item does not need to be worn in the traditional sense, but it must encircle a part of the wearer's body. A ring makes a circle around the finger, a bracket around the wrist, and a necklace goes around the neck (not a perfect circle, but does make a full loop around a section of the body). Circles have a significance in magic. There are Summoner Circles, circles in Wizardry, Faerie Circles (not magical in their own right, but Faeries are Creatures of Magic so I'm using it). So, if a magical item does not encircle the body, then it cannot grant the user within the circle any protection.

Just a random thought. Hope some of you enjoyed. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Curbludgeon]

Well, in games using rules codified after the 80s attempts have been made to address this. I'll look it up later, but 3.5/3.P settled on something around 13 slots and a few more bonus types, while later games whittled that down.

As a most basic fix, I'd say that only the highest bonus of a certain type applies. This is to say that a +1 ring is entirely superseded by a +2 ring of the same sort. In this ruleset this eliminates all but edge cases.

[ITWastrel]

Well, in games using rules codified after the 80s attempts have been made to address this. I'll look it up later, but 3.5/3.P settled on something around 13 slots and a few more bonus types, while later games whittled that down.

As a most basic fix, I'd say that only the highest bonus of a certain type applies. This is to say that a +1 ring is entirely superseded by a +2 ring of the same sort. In this ruleset this eliminates all but edge cases.

This makes most sense.

You can wear one item of +2 vs disease, but a second one doesn't stack, no matter where it's worn.

Penalties, though, I've always stacked. You get a -2 from something and I've got a -4 for you, well, that looks like a -6, buddy. Good luck.

[kiralon]

The rules do state that they aren't cumulative, so the highest one is the one that gives you its bonus, but i must say i have different categories, so a bonus of +1 to save from a ring of protection does stack with the +1 to save from morale bonus from the player who just gave a good speech to fire up the team. Also luck which i have as a stat can make a difference.

[The Dark Elf]

Well, we had this happen in the game I'm in and I think I need a consensus. If you have a magic item that is a worn item (necklace, ring, bracers, etc.) does it have to be worn in the traditional area? Can you have a magic ring, but wear it on a string around your neck, or have it in your mouth, or even have swallowed it, and have it still function?

-Vek
"I say no. Else why specify the appearance of the item?"

IMHO You have to wear it as intended.

[ITWastrel]

The rules do state that they aren't cumulative, so the highest one is the one that gives you its bonus, but i must say i have different categories, so a bonus of +1 to save from a ring of protection does stack with the +1 to save from morale bonus from the player who just gave a good speech to fire up the team. Also luck which i have as a stat can make a difference.

Stacking a bonus for circumstances or preparation with the magic bonus is always acceptable.

Wearing three rings of +2 vs X, though fashionable, does not result in stacked bonuses.

A +2 vs poison ring with a dose of +2 vs poison antivenom should stack to +4.

And a +2 vs Disease necklace paired with a magic Ward against Dengoo Disease* (+3) should result in a +5 vs the dreaded Dengoo Melting Cough.








*The Dengoo Ward is effective against Dengoo Fever, Dengoo Croup, Dengoo Melting Cough, Dengoo Reverse Testicular Realignment Syndrome, Dengoo Blinking Plague, Dengoo Knee Lengthening Disease, Dengoo Shrinking Shoulder, and Dengoo Exploding Arms Syndrome.
The Dengoo Ward is Not effective against Dengoo-Murphy Spontaneous Orbital Anvil Disease, as the anvils are just too heavy and moving WAY too fast.

[Hotrod]

The rules do state that they aren't cumulative, so the highest one is the one that gives you its bonus, but i must say i have different categories, so a bonus of +1 to save from a ring of protection does stack with the +1 to save from morale bonus from the player who just gave a good speech to fire up the team. Also luck which i have as a stat can make a difference.

Where does it say that bonuses aren’t cumulative? I’m only familiar with the restriction that they cannot be identical/repeats.

[kiralon]

Thats what i meant by cumulative, because there dont seem to be many categories, so a ring of protection +1 isnt cumulative with an amulet of protection +1, so really the only other bonus you seem to get is stat bonuses, as the way i read it the bonuses dont even seem to be cumulative with say a circle of protection.

[Hotrod]

I think it’s a question of identical enchantments. There are a few ways to interpret this. Let’s say you have have three magic items and a rune weapon. For the magic items, one has +1 to PS, one has a +2 to PS, one has a +1 to PS. The rune weapon has a bunch of bonuses that include a +1 to PS.

I would interpret the “no duplicate worn enchantments” rule to mean that the duplicate magic item with the +1 to PS would not work, but everything else, including the rune weapon’s bonus, would, for a total of +4 to PS.

I could see an argument for only accepting one PS-boosting item and the rune weapon bonus for a total of +3.

I could also see an argument for treating every stat bonus, even those coming as a package deal like this rune weapon, as a collection of distinct and individual stat bonus enchantments, and allowing only the greatest single PS bonus of +2.

[kiralon]

The 3rd way was the way that i was taught, so to reduce confusion er borrowed an idea and made multiple categories that were cumulative with each other, So the main items that boosted stats weren't cumulative and only got the highest, but there were still other ways to boost.
1 boost from magic/magic items
1 boost from Herbs n stuff
1 boost from psionics
1 boost from chi
1 boost from luck
1 boost from morale
1 boost from well crafted

Are the main groups

[Hotrod]

The 3rd way was the way that i was taught, so to reduce confusion er borrowed an idea and made multiple categories that were cumulative with each other, So the main items that boosted stats weren't cumulative and only got the highest, but there were still other ways to boost.
1 boost from magic/magic items
1 boost from Herbs n stuff
1 boost from psionics
1 boost from chi
1 boost from luck
1 boost from morale
1 boost from well crafted

Are the main groups

I see nothing wrong with running things that way; I just don’t see the rules specifying that interpretation. It would be nice to have some official clarification, especially for writers of Rifter submissions.

[Kraynic]

I see nothing wrong with running things that way; I just don’t see the rules specifying that interpretation. It would be nice to have some official clarification, especially for writers of Rifter submissions.

It is definitely unclear. In 2E, there is the statement in the alchemist section (pg 253) about how identical bonuses don't stack. In 1E, the only statement I know if is from Book 3: The High Seas in the question and answer section about Summoners and Diabolists. There, it is stated that bonuses to save vs magic received from wards don't stack (at the bottom of the left column on page 28). The note seems to be specifying that you can't apply multiple wards of protection from magic, but of course doesn't specify, and there is another ward between that statement and the ward I think it applies to...

To complicate things further, it isn't specified exactly how wards are involved in making magic items (beyond the permanence ward of course). If you figure the items that give a bonus to save vs. magic are powered by the ward, then also activating a ward won't stack, because it is identical to the protection provided by the item. Fortunately, I haven't really run into this sort of thing often in my games, so I mostly haven't had to scrutinize stacking that closely.

I do allow a more specific bonus to stack on top of a general bonus, so a bonus vs magic and a bonus vs fear would stack against a magical fear affect.
Since they are supposed to basically bond with their keeper's soul and be an extension of that individual, I allow bonuses from rune items to stack with everything.

[RockJock]

This also gets to the times where that Gigantes you killed has a magic ring.....that you want to use as a necklace, bracer, or perhaps hula hoop.