A few questions about a CS frontier outpost?

[Kargan3033]

I'm working on creating a CS frontier outpost in the middle of nowhere Canada and I'd like to hear from any GMs who run CS based games about fleshing out said outpost.

Look forward to hearing from you and thanks in advance for your help.

[taalismn]

-First; what is the purpose of the outpost? Is it watching somebody(Xiticix, Free Quebec, Tundra Rangers, monsters from the Calgary Rift?) or is it protecting something(radar site, mine, laboratory, emergency airfield as part of some larger territorial expansion campaign?).

-How is it staffed? How many troops and what sort of motor pool does it have?

-Construction----Is this a fortified complex with bored nuclear power plant, bunkers, the works, or is it a bunch of airdropped prefabs huddled behind earthen berms and prefab wall/wire?

-Experience Levels and Composition---Is this a busy active site that gets regular personnel rotations and the benefit of having veteran personnel on hand who know what they're doing, and who are in regular contact with HQ that listens to them, or are they the dregs, left out in the cold(essentially Rifts IceGuard)

-Local Neighborhood---Who/what is in the neighborhood? A d-bee village? What is the CS policy towards any neighbors? Are they welcome visitors, possibly local scouts, or are they kept at arm's length or at the maximum range of the guns?

[Kargan3033]

-First; what is the purpose of the outpost? Is it watching somebody(Xiticix, Free Quebec, Tundra Rangers, monsters from the Calgary Rift?) or is it protecting something(radar site, mine, laboratory, emergency airfield as part of some larger territorial expansion campaign?).

-How is it staffed? How many troops and what sort of motor pool does it have?

-Construction----Is this a fortified complex with bored nuclear power plant, bunkers, the works, or is it a bunch of airdropped prefabs huddled behind earthen berms and prefab wall/wire?

-Experience Levels and Composition---Is this a busy active site that gets regular personnel rotations and the benefit of having veteran personnel on hand who know what they're doing, and who are in regular contact with HQ that listens to them, or are they the dregs, left out in the cold(essentially Rifts IceGuard)

-Local Neighborhood---Who/what is in the neighborhood? A d-bee village? What is the CS policy towards any neighbors? Are they welcome visitors, possibly local scouts, or are they kept at arm's length or at the maximum range of the guns?

Thank you for your input the base I'm planing is a frontier/exploratory base that the CS is setting up to explore the area for resources then *something interesting* happens to them.

So what I would like to know what would be the highest rank for an exploratory base as well as the numbers of troops and what weapons/vehicles and supplies would be standard in an exploratory base that the CS high command would commit to exploring new territory for possible expansion that if the worst should happen the loss of the base and it's troops would not harm the CS in the long run?

I'm sure the CS has sent and lost explorer forces and bases since it's founding after the world more or less stabilized after the coming of the rifts so they would have learned from bitter experiences what forces and resources they could commit to exploring and expanding the CS without endangering the CS as a whole should the *worst* come to pass for said exploratory forces/base(s)

Now that I have had some time to think about the bones of this project I'll expand on it.

This CS base is being set up in the middle of nowhere Canada after the war with Tolkeen which was planed for before the start of the war with Tolkeen because the higher up in the CS realized that there were going to need resources to make up for the resources spent on the war with Tolkeen and so the plan for this exploration/expansion was based on an old report from a merc company made up of former CS troops who mustered out of the army and went merc who did favors for the CS and were active in Canada who had been hired to explore Canada and flagged the area as a possible base for CS expansion.

The CS forces are made of a mix of vets from the war with Tolkeen and fresh recruits who set up shop and start poking around, after some time the troops at the base find something *interesting* and get flagged for rapid expansion and the first batch of reinforcements and materials arrive and just are starting to deploy when something *interesting* happens to the base and it's troops and this *interesting* event at the base takes place one hour before the outbreak of the Minion War.

[Orin J.]

if it's just for a look-see i wouldn't expect them to be highly ranked (the posting could be a punishment, really) or provided with much force "on-hand" since if they FIND something they can report it and command will decide any further reinforcement. so it's be the prefab stuff with a few units of troops, a squad or two of SAMAS/skycycles for support and maybe a robot or two. i'd expect psi-stalkers and their dog boy troops to make up a lot of the forces for their role of security. nothing special.

[taalismn]

A few skelebot sentries and a robot-wrangler for them, maybe, if the GM is feeling beneficent.

[Kargan3033]

if it's just for a look-see i wouldn't expect them to be highly ranked (the posting could be a punishment, really) or provided with much force "on-hand" since if they FIND something they can report it and command will decide any further reinforcement. so it's be the prefab stuff with a few units of troops, a squad or two of SAMAS/skycycles for support and maybe a robot or two. i'd expect psi-stalkers and their dog boy troops to make up a lot of the forces for their role of security. nothing special.

Ok that's something to work with for what I'm planing, thanks for your input.

[Kargan3033]

A few skelebot sentries and a robot-wrangler for them, maybe, if the GM is feeling beneficent.

Yep they will be added, I fleshed out this project in my second post and your suggestion fits in nicely with what I'm planing.

[Mack]

Don't over think it. The base is as large or small as your story needs.

[Kargan3033]

Don't over think it. The base is as large or small as your story needs.

True enough but I have to wonder how the CS goes about expanding into new territory and I have a reason for starting this topic because I have an idea for a possible an adventure that I'm planing on working on if all goes well for the foreseeable future.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Use to have something like that wrote up years ago and was hosted on the old Palladium Think Tank/Nexus 9 website. But those are long gone now.

Anyway I think Orin J. gives a good description. In the Lone Star world book, page 15 there is a paragraph on satellite military outposts that you might find to be useful as a guide as well.

Before the Tolkeen War, the CS took over New Kenora and Iron Heart Armaments. With a CS presence there, it might be your outpost is either north or west of that location. Going to far west you have the Xiticix Hivelands though.

[Kargan3033]

Use to have something like that wrote up years ago and was hosted on the old Palladium Think Tank/Nexus 9 website. But those are long gone now.

Anyway I think Orin J. gives a good description. In the Lone Star world book, page 15 there is a paragraph on satellite military outposts that you might find to be useful as a guide as well.

Before the Tolkeen War, the CS took over New Kenora and Iron Heart Armaments. With a CS presence there, it might be your outpost is either north or west of that location. Going to far west you have the Xiticix Hivelands though.

Thank you for your input, been kicking around some ideas since early this morning and I am starting to work on the CS npcs for this adventure, hopefully I will be able to finish this project in a reasonable amount of time despite the things going on in my life.

[guardiandashi]

Use to have something like that wrote up years ago and was hosted on the old Palladium Think Tank/Nexus 9 website. But those are long gone now.

Anyway I think Orin J. gives a good description. In the Lone Star world book, page 15 there is a paragraph on satellite military outposts that you might find to be useful as a guide as well.

Before the Tolkeen War, the CS took over New Kenora and Iron Heart Armaments. With a CS presence there, it might be your outpost is either north or west of that location. Going to far west you have the Xiticix Hivelands though.

Thank you for your input, been kicking around some ideas since early this morning and I am starting to work on the CS npcs for this adventure, hopefully I will be able to finish this project in a reasonable amount of time despite the things going on in my life.

my 2 cents is that like Tqlisman mentioned it depends on what command was intending.
punishment and or no real value a squad or 2ish some basic supplies maybe an apc or a few prefabbed "bunkers" or the like (basically its a throw away group)
ranging up to "high value" its going to be well stocked, relative to where it is on the plan to its eventual facility, ie if they are planning to make it a serious node then it would start off as a fairly small base, but would get supplies troops and construction materials on a regular basis and expand.

the best analogy I can think of is think about it as a RTS game like warcraft, starcraft or similar where you build and upgrade your base, well someone in command is "playing" that game, but they would be importing troops not building them onsite.

[Kargan3033]

my 2 cents is that like Tqlisman mentioned it depends on what command was intending.
punishment and or no real value a squad or 2ish some basic supplies maybe an apc or a few prefabbed "bunkers" or the like (basically its a throw away group)
ranging up to "high value" its going to be well stocked, relative to where it is on the plan to its eventual facility, ie if they are planning to make it a serious node then it would start off as a fairly small base, but would get supplies troops and construction materials on a regular basis and expand.

the best analogy I can think of is think about it as a RTS game like warcraft, starcraft or similar where you build and upgrade your base, well someone in command is "playing" that game, but they would be importing troops not building them onsite.

Thank you for your input, I have figured out how I'm setting up this base and the adventure I'm going to be working for the foreseeable future and you do make a good point by mentioning the old blizzard games and the base upgrading aspect of those games that's what I'm going to hint at as this project goes forward but for right now my main focus in this project is getting the main npcs done.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm working on creating a CS frontier outpost in the middle of nowhere Canada and I'd like to hear from any GMs who run CS based games about fleshing out said outpost.

Look forward to hearing from you and thanks in advance for your help.

Important question: Are there any locals that the CS would have to deal with?
Remember that in the Coalition chain of command (CWC 50), the Head of Propaganda is second only to the Emperor himself, and this shows the CS's priorities.
Military Counselors come in at #4, for perspective.
What this means is that if there are any locals, there should be somebody in charge of propagandizing, unless the locals are specifically marked for destruction already or something.
The CS is all about trying to recruit pure humans, and intimidating their enemies/competition, and propaganda is important for both.

Beyond that, I highly recommend rereading Sourcebook 1's section on the Coalition, along with Coalition War Campaign, and any other books that discusses CS agendas, chains of command, and organization.

It sounds like what you're going for is a Reconnaissance Mission (CWC 43), which frames the kinds of troops you'd want there.
SB1 26-27 (original SB1, because it was easiest for me to grab; SB1r might have changed things a bit) lists the different kinds of reconnaissance squads the CS typically uses:
Short Range Recon: 4 light infantry, 2 heavy infantry, 1 military specialist, 1 tech officer
Dog Pack Recon: 4 light dog pack soldiers, 2 Dog Pack soldiers (more combat-oriented breeds & gear), 1 Dog Pack 2nd In Command, 1 Psi-Stalker (squad leader)
Light mechanized recon: 2-3 SAMAS, 2-3 light infantry, 1 military specialist, 1 technical officer
Heavy Mechanized recon: 2-4 SAMAS, 2 sky cycles, 2 IAR-2 Abolishers (or UAR-1 Enforcers) OR 2 SAMAS, 2 Abolishers, 2 Enforcers OR 1 Spider-Skull Walker, 1d4 SAMAS 2-4 Light Infantry

Depending on how big you want your base to be, and how active, you can use that kind of info to build your general troop size.
Since you're out in the boonies, you could go minimalist (1 short range recon squad, 1 dog pack squad, and that's it), or you could go for something a bit heavier where you could have 1-2 teams away doing recon while another team or two stays at base, rotating duties and such. Might want to go for a skelebot squad for extra base protection (or to send out as a S&D team if needed).
Or you could go heavy, and have like 3 teams of each of the above, depending on how high you want your base population to be.

(Again, SB1r likely changes things up a bit when it comes to specific troops; I'm just pointing you toward the kind of thing I'd do based on what you've said so far. You'd likely have one or more CS rangers, and so forth--newer classes that SB1 couldn't have originally accounted for).

If the base/mission isn't expected to be important, I'd go with old-school CS gear instead of the CWC weapons. Old-style armor is technically reserved for the ISS, but I could see troops out in the middle of nowhere getting assigned the older gear instead of giving them newer stuff. The older weapons would very likely be sent out to the frontiers in low-priority areas; they're not exclusive to the ISS.
If you want to supplement the troops with homebrew stuff, check out my old Patriot Arms Incorporated thread.

[glitterboy2098]

i would assume that if a recon mission needs an actual field base and not just a cluster of tents, there would be multiple recon groups present. plus a small support staff. the base would be supporting recon operations across the wider area.

i'd call it a light Mechanized recon, and then either two short ranged recon teams or one and a dogpack recon team. plus 1D6+3 additional technical officers and other specialists (with perhaps an APC or some other supply hauler) to keep things running. the mech recon unit would be the base security force primarily with the SAMAS doubling as aerial recon units and quick response. the other two recon teams would be away from base for prolonged periods doing their various patrols and duties.

[Kargan3033]

I'm working on creating a CS frontier outpost in the middle of nowhere Canada and I'd like to hear from any GMs who run CS based games about fleshing out said outpost.

Look forward to hearing from you and thanks in advance for your help.

Important question: Are there any locals that the CS would have to deal with?
Remember that in the Coalition chain of command (CWC 50), the Head of Propaganda is second only to the Emperor himself, and this shows the CS's priorities.
Military Counselors come in at #4, for perspective.
What this means is that if there are any locals, there should be somebody in charge of propagandizing, unless the locals are specifically marked for destruction already or something.
The CS is all about trying to recruit pure humans, and intimidating their enemies/competition, and propaganda is important for both.

Beyond that, I highly recommend rereading Sourcebook 1's section on the Coalition, along with Coalition War Campaign, and any other books that discusses CS agendas, chains of command, and organization.

It sounds like what you're going for is a Reconnaissance Mission (CWC 43), which frames the kinds of troops you'd want there.
SB1 26-27 (original SB1, because it was easiest for me to grab; SB1r might have changed things a bit) lists the different kinds of reconnaissance squads the CS typically uses:
Short Range Recon: 4 light infantry, 2 heavy infantry, 1 military specialist, 1 tech officer
Dog Pack Recon: 4 light dog pack soldiers, 2 Dog Pack soldiers (more combat-oriented breeds & gear), 1 Dog Pack 2nd In Command, 1 Psi-Stalker (squad leader)
Light mechanized recon: 2-3 SAMAS, 2-3 light infantry, 1 military specialist, 1 technical officer
Heavy Mechanized recon: 2-4 SAMAS, 2 sky cycles, 2 IAR-2 Abolishers (or UAR-1 Enforcers) OR 2 SAMAS, 2 Abolishers, 2 Enforcers OR 1 Spider-Skull Walker, 1d4 SAMAS 2-4 Light Infantry

Depending on how big you want your base to be, and how active, you can use that kind of info to build your general troop size.
Since you're out in the boonies, you could go minimalist (1 short range recon squad, 1 dog pack squad, and that's it), or you could go for something a bit heavier where you could have 1-2 teams away doing recon while another team or two stays at base, rotating duties and such. Might want to go for a skelebot squad for extra base protection (or to send out as a S&D team if needed).
Or you could go heavy, and have like 3 teams of each of the above, depending on how high you want your base population to be.

(Again, SB1r likely changes things up a bit when it comes to specific troops; I'm just pointing you toward the kind of thing I'd do based on what you've said so far. You'd likely have one or more CS rangers, and so forth--newer classes that SB1 couldn't have originally accounted for).

If the base/mission isn't expected to be important, I'd go with old-school CS gear instead of the CWC weapons. Old-style armor is technically reserved for the ISS, but I could see troops out in the middle of nowhere getting assigned the older gear instead of giving them newer stuff. The older weapons would very likely be sent out to the frontiers in low-priority areas; they're not exclusive to the ISS.
If you want to supplement the troops with homebrew stuff, check out my old Patriot Arms Incorporated thread.

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, been busy, I already have a rough idea of what I'm going to do with this project and all the advice I have been given will be taken into account but this is going to be a very long term project, about one to three years given what's going on in real life or so I'm hoping.

[Kargan3033]

i would assume that if a recon mission needs an actual field base and not just a cluster of tents, there would be multiple recon groups present. plus a small support staff. the base would be supporting recon operations across the wider area.

i'd call it a light Mechanized recon, and then either two short ranged recon teams or one and a dogpack recon team. plus 1D6+3 additional technical officers and other specialists (with perhaps an APC or some other supply hauler) to keep things running. the mech recon unit would be the base security force primarily with the SAMAS doubling as aerial recon units and quick response. the other two recon teams would be away from base for prolonged periods doing their various patrols and duties.

Thank you for your input and that gives me a good idea I hope I can work into the project at hand.

[desrocfc]

If you did a Google for "Forward Operating Base," or simply a FOB as we call it (pronounced to rhyme with the name Bob). Click 'Images' and you'll get some ideas on what they can look like. Given the scenario, they are likely not really close to any other community. If they are, what is their relationship with them? What is the overall security threat?

Here's a direct link from my Google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=militar ... UQ1BZv6hiM

Size. You are likely looking at a Company+ sized element, led most likely by a Captain or Major, leaning to Major if they are remote:
- HQ element
- 2-3 platoons of security (Grunts, Tech Officers, SAMAS, APCs)
- 1 platoon of combined Maintenance and Supply + Transport
- 1 platoon of Skelebots

Several elements of the FOB:
- Command Bunker (includes long range comms)
- Accommodations + Morale and Welfare services (feeding, latrines, lounge, etc)
- Power Source
- Water
- Waste Disposal
- Security - both passive (sensors, etc) and active (roving SAMAS patrols, Skelebots)
- Motor Pool and Maintenance compound (tied to Maintenance and Transport folks) including locations for helicopters/Skull transports
- Supply compound (likely tied to Motor Pool) and landing pads

Security. Bear in mind the actual footprint of the FOB takes up a fair amount of space. Think of it like a modern castle idea, where there is an external wall as first line of defence, with fixed firing points for soldiers and vehicles (like APCs), so heavy weapons can be brought to bear. CS SAMAS and Sky Cycles would be a thing. There would likely be an inner wall, surrounding the Command, Accommodations, Supply, Water and likely Waste Disposal. Heck, depending on where in Canada, you could even throw in a moat, LOL. The area around the FOB would be cleared to allow their weapons clear firing lanes to engage an enemy on the way in.

Other Elements. After that, I'd add whatever extras your scenario needed, like a science and research centre with RCSG and Scientists/Scholars and Technical Officers (which may or may not replace a Security Platoon), etc. You also need to consider Lines of Communications with their supply bases and flanking (if any) FOBs which could be tens of miles away. Likely coming from Iron Heart, you should have that established; might be background for the party, but if something "funny" was going to happen, this is where reinforcements would come from. They also have a larger supporting base between them and Iron Heart; think nodes in a network where the FOB is the furthest out.

Good luck and happy gaming!

[Kargan3033]

If you did a Google for "Forward Operating Base," or simply a FOB as we call it (pronounced to rhyme with the name Bob). Click 'Images' and you'll get some ideas on what they can look like. Given the scenario, they are likely not really close to any other community. If they are, what is their relationship with them? What is the overall security threat?

Here's a direct link from my Google search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=militar ... UQ1BZv6hiM

Size. You are likely looking at a Company+ sized element, led most likely by a Captain or Major, leaning to Major if they are remote:
- HQ element
- 2-3 platoons of security (Grunts, Tech Officers, SAMAS, APCs)
- 1 platoon of combined Maintenance and Supply + Transport
- 1 platoon of Skelebots

Several elements of the FOB:
- Command Bunker (includes long range comms)
- Accommodations + Morale and Welfare services (feeding, latrines, lounge, etc)
- Power Source
- Water
- Waste Disposal
- Security - both passive (sensors, etc) and active (roving SAMAS patrols, Skelebots)
- Motor Pool and Maintenance compound (tied to Maintenance and Transport folks) including locations for helicopters/Skull transports
- Supply compound (likely tied to Motor Pool) and landing pads

Security. Bear in mind the actual footprint of the FOB takes up a fair amount of space. Think of it like a modern castle idea, where there is an external wall as first line of defence, with fixed firing points for soldiers and vehicles (like APCs), so heavy weapons can be brought to bear. CS SAMAS and Sky Cycles would be a thing. There would likely be an inner wall, surrounding the Command, Accommodations, Supply, Water and likely Waste Disposal. Heck, depending on where in Canada, you could even throw in a moat, LOL. The area around the FOB would be cleared to allow their weapons clear firing lanes to engage an enemy on the way in.

Other Elements. After that, I'd add whatever extras your scenario needed, like a science and research centre with RCSG and Scientists/Scholars and Technical Officers (which may or may not replace a Security Platoon), etc. You also need to consider Lines of Communications with their supply bases and flanking (if any) FOBs which could be tens of miles away. Likely coming from Iron Heart, you should have that established; might be background for the party, but if something "funny" was going to happen, this is where reinforcements would come from. They also have a larger supporting base between them and Iron Heart; think nodes in a network where the FOB is the furthest out.

Good luck and happy gaming!

Thank you for your input this will help in the long run and thanks for the link it will be most helpful.

[Mack]

One other thing to keep in mind is with the speed of SAMAS and Sky Cycles (not to mention actual Air Force aircraft) no outpost truly on its own.

[Blue_Lion]

My opninion.
The make up of a frontier base would probably depend on the amount of force it is suppose to project.

It could be as simple as a single MD bunker with a squad of humans. With skeletons for security.

Or it could be a more complex base with a company level force.

In general I would expect to see a area cleared around it of at least 3000 feet to provide a clear line of fire.

Razor wire perimeter fence CS war cs overkill.

If a single bunker it might have a laser canon on the roof and or ports for defenders to shoot out.
Larger base guard towers and fighting positions around the perimeter.

If a company size element it would have 2 entry points, if squad it might only have 1 entry point.

The smaller base could be used as either a resupply base for samas and or CS rangers. (if not CS patrols in general.)

Now that said those are forward patrol bases not exploration.
In my opinion-
Exploration bases are mobile camps, they would be made up of tents and vehicles. Defenses would be perimeter wire and hasty fighting positions.
Once you start building structures you switch to patrol base.