Magic Wall Mass

[Veknironth]

Well, this is something I forgot to ask in my old opus about magic walls. What is their mass? The spells for these Warlock spells say that the size is 8x8x4 per level which means that the higher level the warlock, the larger the wall. That makes sense since the SDC increases. Larger wall, larger SDC. But, the damage it does when dropped on someone or something does NOT change, and neither does the strength required to lift the wall enough to crawl out (PS 60). A PS of 60 allows for 2400 lbs of lifting, or roughly 2.4 tons. Even the least dense wall of ice at the smallest listed size would be 7 times that weight. So, it seems that the density of the magic wall is not the same as real ice/iron/stone. It also seems that the wall has the same mass regardless of its volume, and thus the density of larger walls is less than that of smaller ones. Or does someone have a different reading on that?

The next question I have is can the wall be made smaller, and would that affect the mass? There is nothing about making the wall smaller in the desciption, but I assume that the warlock can make the wall any dimensions within the limits. So, could you make a wall smaller than 8x8x4 and if so how much less than 2400lbs would it weigh?

-Vek
"Is there any way to cast a 4th level Warlock spell at 1st level strength?"

[The Dark Elf]

Hasnt come up in my games too often IIRC as we dont like the idea of dropping a wall on someone so we rule it out. We have played that you can decrease the level of your spell casting so make in the minimum 1st level size.

[Veknironth]

Well, I'm considering weaponizing it by having a warlock make a wall of a particular size and weight that a psionicist can use in conjuntion with TK and a lot of ISP to really pummel people.

-Vek
"Not as cheesey as my Wall + Fly spell idea."

[kiralon]

Doesn't come up in my game either because happily the the 1st ed version doesn't mention dropping it on people, nor a weight to move it.
but i didn't allow it anyway when playing 2nd ed because of the ridiculousness of it.
Dropping a wall of iron on a ship/castle wall would be devastating.
1 cubic foot of iron is 222kg/489 lbs so a wall of iron isn't made out of Iron, just looks like it. Same with the other walls. The are all made out of Kevinium, a mystical material that can take on some, but not all of the properties of other materials but weighs the same no matter its volume.

[Reagren Wright]

Doesn't come up in my game either because happily the the 1st ed version doesn't mention dropping it on people, nor a weight to move it.
but i didn't allow it anyway when playing 2nd ed because of the ridiculousness of it.
Dropping a wall of iron on a ship/castle wall would be devastating.
1 cubic foot of iron is 222kg/489 lbs so a wall of iron isn't made out of Iron, just looks like it. Same with the other walls. The are all made out of Kevinium, a mystical material that can take on some, but not all of the properties of other materials but weighs the same no matter its volume.

Kevinium

Yeah I always had the walls rise up out of the earth then sink back down. There was no indication in 1st edition that they would or could appear above
the ground. The fact Kevin in 2nd edition allows you to drop walls on people that do 1D6x10 damage which I'm guessing is per melee round (even though
it doesn't say so) but a P.S. of 60 can lift it off like it was the house that fell on the Wicked Witch of the East is just illogical and inconsistent. Kevin
doesn't want or believe in instant kills , yet you can cast River of Lava that turns S.D.C beings into ash. Only the most powerful beings (elementals
for example) suffer listed damage (2D6x10 per melee round). He nerfed mini fireballs that in 1st edition did 1 ball per level of experience with each ball
do 1D4 per level of experience, so when a fire warlock got the spell at 4th level it was 4 mini fireballs each doing 4D4 so 12-64 points of damage. Now
three mini-fireballs do 3D6 per triple blast. Why spend 20 P.P.E that could do three points of damage? In my games, I have them doing 3D6+1D6 per
level of experience per ball. You can try to dodge each of the balls using 3 actions or try to dodge all three with one (you make the choice and suffer the
consequence). Your definition of Kevinium is spot on. All three solid walls (ice, stone, and iron) all do the same damage and despite the various sizes per
level of experience, however, you can lift it off a person as if it were a fallen queen size mattress. It also says a combined P.S. of 60. That means
the P.S. of 60 that's 60x20x2 (for lift) so it weighs 2400 lbs (1080 kg) or just one ton Sorry my suspension of disbelief will not hold. Earth warlock
at 3rd level makes a wall of earth 24 x 24 x 12 feet or 7.3 x 7.3 x 3.6 m (someone else can convert to cubic feet) drops it 60 feet (18 m) above an ogre.
it does only 10 points of damage, 5 if he rolls with punch, and 2 dwarves with P.S. of 25, 30, and a human with a P.S. of 12 walk up and lift it off their
fallen companion Nope. So if you come to one of my games at a convention and do this, to stay in Palladium cannon I'm going to say its 1D6x10
damage per melee round and it takes a Supernatural P.S of 60 60x50x2 meaning lifting 6000 lbs (2700 kg) or 3 tons which means a combined P.S.
of 300 to lift it off. Since Kevin wants the option of getting walls of people I will allow it but you had better go find a village.

[Veknironth]

Well, thanks to Reagan for asking a question I had meant to ask but forgot. Does it matter how far above the head the wall is formed? Would 60 feet higher do more damage because it accelerates more, but does it allow for dodging?

-Vek
"Maybe just go with 1st Edition."

[kiralon]

Kevenium does the same damage no matter what velocity.

[Reagren Wright]

Well, thanks to Reagan for asking a question I had meant to ask but forgot. Does it matter how far above the head the wall is formed? Would 60 feet higher do more damage because it accelerates more, but does it allow for dodging?

-Vek
"Maybe just go with 1st Edition."

I drop it at 10 feet (3 m) or 60 feet (18.2 m), does it really matter? I drop a dump truck on you from 10 feet (3 m) or 60 feet (18.2) in real life. Why am
bothering to figure out extra damage when its already ridiculous that a wall of (ice, stone, or metal) that is 24 x 24 x 12 feet or 7.3 x 7.3 x 3.6 m
lands on top of you and you only take 10 points of damage? Don't even factor speed into the equation because that's not even considered with the
wording and intent of the spell as they are written. Kevin only wants these walls landing on you doing 1D6x10 . So, can you dodge them? Well, if I
drop it on you at 10 feet (3) above your head, first how does your character know it's there unless the spell is accompanied by a cartoon/movie sound
effect or its mere appearance darkens the sky overhead. Then in that split second you realize something huge is above you, your character has to move--
let's say I drop it dead center at 24 x 24 feet (7.3 x 7.3)--12 feet (3.6 m) in a chosen direction to avoid gettiong squashed (for a possible 10 points).
Again, if somebody wants to do the mathematical equation, you could probably figure it out based on your speed attribute Spd x10 divided by 7 gives
you how many mph (x1.6 for km) your character can move. Superbeing logic and comic book/fantasy physics tell me you need a natural 20 or 24
with accumulative bonuses to successfully dodge (and the above dimensions are at 3rd level. If a Major Elemental cast this at you in which its spells are
all 10th level your talking about 80x80x40 feet (24.3 x 24.3 x 12.1 m) you trying to get out from under But the important thing to remember is the
wall will ONLY do 1D6x10. Not an instant kill like River of Lava (on lesser S.D.C. beings only) or teleport into an object. If this happens at a convention
you'll probably live and we then need to figure out how to get you out from under. If this happens at my game with my players on Monday night, get out
the ShopVac folks because use is flatter than tomato run over by a steam roller. That means you is dead son.

[Rogerd]

If you want realism go play Mythras, if you want a dose of fun - keep doing what you're doing and roll with what the players do, and more often than not - let them do it. But just get the villains to be as inventive as them sometimes, just as a warning sign not to abuse things too often.

And players will be default come up with some of the kookiest stuff possible.

[Veknironth]

Well, I don't know that someone will necessarily be flattened. The weight seems to remain the same regardless of the dimensions and only requires a 60 PS combined to lift that's about 2400lbs. Now, that's a lot, but it wouldn't all be on top of someone at once. If more than one thing is caught under the wall, that weight is spread out. Also, the wall is likely going to be resting a fair amount of its weight on the ground.

Of course, this Kevinium seems to obey its own laws of physics. The SDC increases per level, so you'd assume more mass. But the PS required does increase so rhe gravity changes or the density of the wall does.

-Vek
"Beginning to think it shouldn't be allowed to be deployed as a weapon in this fashion."

[kiralon]

I thought I saw a silly idea. I did, I did see a silly idea.
I want my anvil or grand piano to drop on peoples heads as well.
And maybe a coyle with rocket skates and tnt chasing a silonar.

"Beginning to think it shouldn't be allowed to be deployed as a weapon in this fashion."

+9000

[drewkitty ~..~]

I will say the Vekn probably has the correct answer for the question asked. In that it same effective mass as to cause that much weight. Even if in the end it disappears into dispersing mana at the end of its duration.

[GT]

What if a warlock parries with a standing wall?

[drewkitty ~..~]

What if a warlock parries with a standing wall?

Great Thing, this would fall under the "parrying with Magic' topic for discussion.