Strength and Alter Physical Structure

[jtjr26]

Hey, all was wondering do bonuses to physical strength a character can get from skills carry over to when they are transformed or do they only apply their default form?

Cheers

[drewkitty ~..~]

The bonuses from the APS are stacked on top of their normal stats when they transform to their APS self.

[Stone Gargoyle]

The way it is written, APS power replaces the body of the superbeing using them. Most prohibit stacking of the skill bonuses from physical skills on top of the bonuses from the APS power. Everyone has their own house rules for this, however, so check with the GM. Or if you are the GM, do what you want.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The way it is written, APS power replaces the body of the superbeing using them. Most prohibit stacking of the skill bonuses from physical skills on top of the bonuses from the APS power. Everyone has their own house rules for this, however, so check with the GM. Or if you are the GM, do what you want.

Stacking.... I don't see this in the core book. What I see is that the power adds a bonus the the char's current stat scores.
Give us a list of the specific APS powers you are talking about when you say skill bonuses to stat scores are excluded, please.

As far as I can see the only two that limit skills bonuses are the APS: Metal and APS: Stone. And that is only because the SDC scores of the power replace the normal SDC of the char.

Note: I used just the HU2 Core book for my ref. guild for making these further comments.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I fail to see how skill bonuses stack onto APS Water or any of the air based APS powers. I think there are some exceptions, but my statement stands as the general rule as I see it.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I fail to see how skill bonuses stack onto APS Water or any of the air based APS powers. I think there are some exceptions, but my statement stands as the general rule as I see it.

What you failed to do in your response is show is where the books say that skills bonuses are omitted from the stat totals of APS Supers while transformed.
AFAIK there is no rule that says to omit skills bonuses from the stat score totals for a Transformed APS super. With the above SDC exceptions.
Since there are no rules governing the stat bonuses coming from Super abilities other than the general ones (which amount to 'add up everything'). The only different rules about APS chars is that they don't get their APS bonuses unless they are transformed into their APS selves.

Though, I think....
.... this is more an issue of someone presenting their house rule without out right saying that it is their house rule.

[Stone Gargoyle]

No, it is a case of me not wanting to go through every single book and find reference pages and numbers and quotes. In any case, it is most likely something they expect you to figure out without spelling it out.

[Raindrop]

Hey, all was wondering do bonuses to physical strength a character can get from skills carry over to when they are transformed or do they only apply their default form?

I'm looking at my 1st edition of Heroes Unlimited Revised. On page 174, both APS Metal and Stone say the physical strength is also increased by X amount. I've always understood the "increased by" to mean the APS PS bonus is added to the character's regular PS (bonuses from skills included) when they transform.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Hey, all was wondering do bonuses to physical strength a character can get from skills carry over to when they are transformed or do they only apply their default form?

I'm looking at my 1st edition of Heroes Unlimited Revised. On page 174, both APS Metal and Stone say the physical strength is also increased by X amount. I've always understood the "increased by" to mean the APS PS bonus is added to the character's regular PS (bonuses from skills included) when they transform.

In second edition, they get increases to the stat numbers and the strength goes up to the Superhuman level. No mention is made as far as how skills affect stength in either APS Stone or APS Metal. One would assume you can add skill bonuses to the base stat of any APS, except it makes no sense to do so considering you are not using muscle, which is what those skills affect.

[elecgraystone]

Hey, all was wondering do bonuses to physical strength a character can get from skills carry over to when they are transformed or do they only apply their default form?

I'm looking at my 1st edition of Heroes Unlimited Revised. On page 174, both APS Metal and Stone say the physical strength is also increased by X amount. I've always understood the "increased by" to mean the APS PS bonus is added to the character's regular PS (bonuses from skills included) when they transform.

In second edition, they get increases to the stat numbers and the strength goes up to the Superhuman level. No mention is made as far as how skills affect stength in either APS Stone or APS Metal. One would assume you can add skill bonuses to the base stat of any APS, except it makes no sense to do so considering you are not using muscle, which is what those skills affect.

To me it makes as much sense as using ANY of the base strength. You are using your physical skill PS bonus as much as you are using your base PS in your APS forms. Any reason to exclude one would be a reason to exclude the other.

[drewkitty ~..~]

No, it is a case of me not wanting to go through every single book and find reference pages and numbers and quotes. In any case, it is most likely something they expect you to figure out without spelling it out.

I had reason to check out that super ability just now, and saw that it excluded the skills PS bonuses. So it might be you were thinking the SNPS super ability rules rather than the APS rules.

[Stone Gargoyle]

It also stems from the fact that Robots do not get skill bonuses because they do not have muscles to train. APS characters transform into substances that are not muscle, which was the basis for my opinion.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Sooooo...

What you are saying is that your house rules are canon? Since you said what you said is canon AND that what you said is your opinion.

So unless you can give a citation of where the canon rule you are using as a basis for you opinion, I can only see your opinion as your house rule, not as canon. And would ask you to to present ' 'Your Opinions' ' as only ' 'Your Opinions' '.

Again, if you come up with a citation....it would validate your claims.

[Crimson Dynamo]

1.) Oh, sweet irony.

2.) As far as I can tell, Stone Gargolye is only offering a rationalization/interpretation for things. In fact, in his previous post, he even goes so far as to say that it's safe to assume you can add those bonuses; he just thinks its doesn't make much sense that you can.

There's a huge difference between that and you seeming to think he's declaring hard rules. Which he's not. Because he wasn't.

[Curbludgeon]

Hey there, jtjr26.

No published APS ability which alters a character's PS stat makes it the equivalent to Supernatural Strength. Superhuman (or as is more common with APS, Extraordinary) Strength can be modified by Physical skill selections. In the case of a character whom has both an APS power and the Supernatural Strength power, the description under the latter power would apply, and skills then would not provide a bonus to the final PS value.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Sooooo...

What you are saying is that your house rules are canon? Since you said what you said is canon AND that what you said is your opinion.

So unless you can give a citation of where the canon rule you are using as a basis for you opinion, I can only see your opinion as your house rule, not as canon. And would ask you to to present ' 'Your Opinions' ' as only ' 'Your Opinions' '.

Again, if you come up with a citation....it would validate your claims.

I never said my opinion was canon. Get the stick out of your butt. I made no citation because there is nothing to cite. This question is not addressed in any official capacity. I am not stating house rules because although I state this as my opinion, I have never applied it to a game setting or campaign. I answered the question and even came back and clarified what I meant. I'm done discussing it now.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I never said my opinion was canon. Get the stick out of your butt. I made no citation because there is nothing to cite. ....snip

No, it is a case of me not wanting to go through every single book and find reference pages and numbers and quotes.

It would of been simpler if you had said they were your house rules from the start.
I wasn't arguing that they were not well reasoned and insightful, that I was objecting to.

As to your arguments that physical skills' bonuses shouldn't be included in AI's because they don't have muscle memory is rather good.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I'm sorry, I should have stated it was merely my opinion from the start.