Dead or Alive, your comming with me

[Incriptus]

From my GM point of view, I more or less remind characters\players (depending on which one needs the reminding) that killing villains, leads to more dangerious villains. If they know that they are going to be killed if caught they are going to need more extreem tactics. If they know that they have the chance to surrender, they might just take it.

also if your going to die either way you might as well take as many people as you can with you. The way I see it a "hero" should only kill if the "villain" takes the life of an innocent. You see if you set the precident that you'll only kill them if they kill, it would make them less likely to kill. If your going to kill them regardless if they kill or not they have no reason not to kill.

[Uncle Servo]

I dont see anything wrong with killin em off its better then goin cliche letting em live just to come back and do more evil stuff to top the last one so kudos to you and your group keep up the "good" work

Only one problem with that philosophy. This is Heroes Unlimited, where the majority of "Heroes" are of Good or Unprincipled alignments. Going back and looking at those alignments:

PRINCIPLED: Principled characters ... have a high regard for (and trust of) authority, as well as for life and freedom.
3. Never kill or attack an unarmed foe.
6. Never kill for pleasure.

SCRUPULOUS: Scrupulous characters value life and freedom above all else, and despise those who would deprive others of them.
3. Never attack or kill an unarmed foe.
6. will always attempt to bring the villain to justice alive, no matter how vile he may find him.

UNPRINCIPLED: This guy is likely to be a vigilante or anti-hero whose intentions are good, tries to be fair and honest, but finds the law corrupt, slow and ineffective. Thus, he goes his own, more efficient route (at least that's how he sees it), working outside the law.
3. Not kill an unarmed foe (but will take advantage of one).
6. Never kill for pleasure; will attempt to bring the villain to justice alive or ruin him.

Simply killing off the villains (even in the name of public safety) simply goes against those alignments... and if the Scrupulous and Unprincipled alignments stress that the character will attempt to bring villains alive to justice you can be sure that the Principled alignment is just as dilligent in doing so.

Now if this was Rifts, the savage post-apocalyptic wilderness where evil supernatural monsters lurk around every third tree waiting to devour young maidens, then the 'just kill them you'll feel better later' approach would not only be appropriate but encouraged.

I know some think it's cool to run a dark, gritty campaign of anti-heroes and vigilantes... and if that's what you're after then go right ahead. That's just not being a hero in my book.

[Daniel Stoker]

I find I have to remind my players that we're playing in HU and not Rifts sometimes when it comes to taking down the villians, but for the most part they remember that. We have one character with ME: Metal so we ALWAYS have restraints handy, and I tell them that I reward them more for capturing villians then I do just killing them. Plus they are pretty smart and staked out the jail where the baddie they had just taken down was being held, and then caught his friends trying to break him out. It messed up my adventrue, but it was a lot of fun having them turn the tables like that.

Captain Evil to his henchmen as he sees him outside his cell, "You're here to free me! Good work."
Player One then steps around the corner witht he police in SCRET suits pushing him into the cell next to Captain Evil, "Nope, he's your new roommate."


Daniel Stoker

[Cardiac]

Let's also remember one little problem with the game mechanics:

You can't really just knock someone out.

You have to send them into a coma to get them to stop moving.

It's too easy to kill someone in HU.

Yeah - that's why I treat it more MSH-esque in regards to health/SDC/HP. When the characer loses all his SDC/HP he is merely knocked out - stuck at 0 HP. I automatically assume all combat is to disable. If any attacks continue, I assume the character has intent to kill. Also, if he takes subsequent damage (bleeding from cuts and bullet wounds, falling damage, etc), he continues to take damage, going into the negatives and could eventually die (which is why you don't see many heroes use guns or knives).

Of course - there are some situations where the character won't just be stuck at zero- like in large explosions and other large-scale damage causing events. In that case the character could die outright.

[Incriptus]

Let's also remember one little problem with the game mechanics:

You can't really just knock someone out.

You have to send them into a coma to get them to stop moving.

It's too easy to kill someone in HU.

yes it is, unfortunetly the game lacks a stunned\koed type status. I've been trying to make up some kind of house rule to get around that . . .something to the effect of 0 hp to - P.E. hp is Koed, - P.E. to 2 x - P.E. is Coma, 2 x - P.E. is dead.

of course that brings up the question . . . why don't villains ever surrender, "this next shot will kill me, I better give up".

In my current HU campaign I had this problem, my hero was fighting normal thugs (albiet thugs with SMGs) who just wouldn't have the decency to give up. I guess it's a flaw in the GMing or whatever.

ok now I'll stop the rambling

[Iczer]

Once we modified it, it was still huge, but it's our guidlines for superheroing. I'm willing to email people the justice squadron charter if they'd like to look at it.

*sticks hand up*

Here please.

Darque513@icqmail.com.

I have the avengers charter around here somewhere. I'd like to see how it stacks up.

Batts

[Uncle Servo]

i believe the actual rule as per heros unlimited is that you can knock some one out with some kind of ko punch or nat 20 w/ boxing

but when sdc is gone the get knocked out
when hp is 0 they are comatose
after the hp reaches 0 the character will only has his PE in hours left to live
or until he reaches negative his PE so which ever comes first will kill him

The thing about boxing is that on a natural 20 the opponent is KO'ed automatically -- the character doesn't have to announce an intention to knock his opponent out, and actually can knock someone out without trying ("Whoa, I didn't mean to do that... now we'll have to wait until he wakes up to question him...").

IIRC, Villains Unlimited covered a situation where someone tried to knock someone out, and the GM in question (I think it was Siembieda) said that the character could do it with a called shot (declare intention to KO) and roll a 20 or better (I'm thinking strike bonuses were included).

That's how I as GM would handle someone purposely trying to knock someone out. It's not easy to KO someone in RL, so I can't see where it should be easy to do so in a game.

On the other hand, I like the idea of 'passing out' when someone's SDC reaches zero... or at least having to make a check of some sort to stay conscious.

[Iczer]

I use the following in my games.

When all SDC is gone, the characters run through the following checklist.

1) do they have 50 HP's or more
2) do they have some ability to ignore pain
3) do they posess the capacity to fight below 0 HP.
4) are they currently beserk, superbrawling or under the influence of a power or drug that enhances the character's metabolism.

if they answer no to all of these then they make a save vs Unconciousness (PE bonuses apply, as do other applicable bonuses such as a +3 from healing factor). the initial save is 10.

Guys with more than 50 HP don't make thier saves until dropping below 50

a second save (12+) is made at 1/2 HP (or 25 if they had over 50 to begin with)

A third is made (14+) at 1/4 HP (or 12 if he started with over 50)

at 3 or less HP, a character automatically passes out from trauma and shock, unless he is already able to fight/act at 0 or below, or is otherwise immune to pain from one source or another.

Character knocked out in this fashion usually stay that way until it is dramatically appropriate. Mooks and cannon fodder have a -6 to their saves. Players can choose to fail and be knocked out. The reasoning behind this is that, unless bleeding to death in a fantastic and dramtic way, they will be taken prisoner with quite few HP left to fight their way out.

Also, any character who has a KO ability, I allow to perform a knock out with minimal fuss if a victim is unaware/unalert or helpless.

Batts