New Application of Medical and Science Skills

[darthauthor]

Wanted to ask the group for some feedback on ideas about Medical and Science skills.

I am toying with the idea of making those with Medical skills more powerful.

In groups almost no one take Medical MD and those who do almost never use it. IF healing is performed it is almost exclusively psionic or magical.

So I thought, "How can the medical doctor or Holistic medicine man compete with that?"

1st

The Medical Doc (Body Fixer, etc) can (with the use of medicines, acupunture, blood transfusion, etc) give a player character patient the equivalent of the psychic's Bio-Regeneration (2d6 to hit points or 3d6 SDC) but leaves scars. Does not depend on ISP points but the Doc will eventually get tired. Also, the patient will (like Bio-Regeneration) experience fatigue for several hours. The patient heals normal after the Doctors medical "procedures" with magic or psionics being the only way to heal more in a short time.

Holistic Medicine taking on greater power with the use of alien plants (from other dimensions or worlds in the Rifts Earth galaxy) that have taken root in Rifts Earth. They came into the land via the Rifts or planted by D-Bees.

So these plants (on their own or processed) can have super healing properties given the character (when properly prepared, brewing/chemistry and adminstered by an Holistic Medicine expert the ability to quickly heal and be back in the game the next day.
I'd add the condition that the character has to make a save or roll for psychological issues. Likewise, the character will have to gorge themselves with food relative to the amount of SDC/HP restored.

This will make food skills even more vital forcing the character to have to fish, forage/gather, hunt, identify plants and fruits, trapping and cooking. Leading to more skill roll and experience rewards for the characters.

2rd

The Medical Doctor/ Holistic Medicine Man can duplicate select effects of some psionics and magic.

Psionic Examples include: Stop Bleeding, Resist Fatigue, Induce sleep, Deaden Pain, Suppress Fear, Alter Aura, Deaden Senses, Death Trance, Mind Block, Summon Inner Strength, Mask Psionics, Mask PPE

Spell Examples: Befuddle, Negate Poison, Paralysis: Lesser, Cure Minor Disorders, Trance, Superhuman Endurance, Superhuman Speed, Cure Illness, Agony, Sickness,

3rd

Reward characters for taking Paramedic or Holesistic medicine with a +1 IQ bonus. For Medical Doctor, +2 IQ

Likewise, +1 to IQ for every science (above Basic: Math) skill taken.

Make the creation of super medicines a challenging skill roll, especially when using alien herbs and such, with a penality average of -30%. Make it a condition that once "picked" or processed the super medicine has an equally super short self life. Leaving the doctor to carry around potted plants they have to care for until they use them or prepare and use the medicine an hour or two before combat.

I Just saw it now, the Medical Doc (maybe the Holistic Doc too) will turn into the group's "buff" (buffer?).

[Grazzik]

The reason people rarely use these skills may be because the skills themselves are of limited value outside of a particular setting, ie. a hospital or lab. The holistic healer is more versatile, but when was the last time a cup of ginger tea helped you heal up from a knife fight... assuming you were in one. The closest would be dealing with indigestion, constipation or other minor maladies. So, if players see no reason to take the OCC/skill in a world of running gun fights and loot pinadas, can you blame them? Why push them to do something they don't want to do? What's the motivation?

The solution - put them in a hospital where they have to save people (perhaps a few people infected or injured that have needed info or are key to a plan) by operating on them or curing them.
Have the antagonist a psi-nullifier or a caster of the Anti-Magic Cloud spell, so supernatural powers can't be used.
Allow the use of advanced medical tools to fill in gaps in their skills, but there can always be shortages or the supply storage crowded with alien slugs that secrete acid, requiring the PCs to roll up their sleeves in the operating room.
Have them roleplay the actual surgery and squirt ketchup at them when they take too long to make decisions.
Break out an old Operation boardgame and hook it up to a car battery (just kidding), but have them try to a body part every time they fail a skill roll.
Make it fun for them.

So, assuming you are hellbent on getting them to roll against their MD skill at least one or twice a session... here's my take on your suggestions...

Overall, if these are house rules you plan to use in an one-shot adventure in order to get players excited about a medical or MASH scenario, do what's fun and engaging. If you plan to incorporate these into a campaign or use on an ongoing basis, you can still house rule what you like, but I'd caution about unintended consequences.

#1
Invasive procedures don't heal someone (ie. add SDC/HP), they typically cut or harm the person to get to a point of greater trauma or disease. So, to cure someone of a benign tumor, you have to cut it out. To remove a bullet or piece of shrapnel, you'll need to cut it out. A strong pain killer isn't going to allow a PC to physically survive another killer punch, just not feel it. If you plan to allow physicians to have equivalent powers to the supernatural, make sure you set limits and be clear in what contexts. Personally, I'd say too much work and potential for player abuse.

Also, as an aside, for side effects of a medical procedure, consider the side effects of cyber/bionic surgery and rules re surviving comma/death as a guide. I've found them useful.

Definitely allow holistic healers to use exotic/alien plants for miraculous results, preferably paired with xenobotany or xenobiology skills. Not everything needs to be plant based, as often animal body parts can be considered useful in holistic medicine (spider webs for clotting and leeches for wound therapy, gross!).

#2
Some, not all. Use common sense. With drugs, deaden pain is okay. Mask PPE, no way unless using an alien plant / animal product. Also, the scale of the effect may be greater or lesser than the supernatural counterpart depending on what the healer is using.

Again, in an ongoing campaign situation, be sure to document your decisions so you can be consistent for your players.

#3
IRL I know a bit of science and would hope that it increased MY IQ, but I seriously doubt it. I know morons who do sophisticated science and geniuses who do art. So, having a heavy bias for the IQ attribute if a PC has science skills a) can potentially lead to silliness like having a skill bonus on Juggling because their IQ is pushed over 16 because they know astrophysics and b) lead to players demanding you hand out attribute buffs for a range of skills (ie. shouldn't Roping or Fencing give a PP buff, or Cooking give a PS or PE buff particularly when making bread by hand which requires a lot of kneading etc.). Instead, I typically caution players that skills may only incidentally give bonuses to attributes, as attributes are there to reflect their natural aptitudes and influence OCC/skill choices. Not the other way around.

The super medicines idea is a good one. Many complex medicines IRL have very short shelf lives. OTC pain killers, apparently years.

Hope this helps.

[darthauthor]

It does help Grazzik,

I don't see my intention to push them to do something they don't want to do but rather present them with opportunities to do what they have skills for and reward them with experience.
I feel like, if they can heal someone (save their life) they should get something like the experience points for beating them in battle.

Personal bias. I'd like to see some players level up for saving lives instead of just killing monsters or CS troopers.

I like your suggestion, "The solution - put them in a hospital where they have to save people (perhaps a few people infected or injured that have needed info or are key to a plan) by operating on them or curing them.
Have the antagonist a psi-nullifier or a caster of the Anti-Magic Cloud spell, so supernatural powers can't be used."

"Have them roleplay the actual surgery and squirt ketchup at them when they take too long to make decisions."

Make it fun for them.

#1

I TOTAL agree with, "If you plan to allow physicians to have equivalent powers to the supernatural, make sure you set limits and be clear in what contexts."

"Definitely allow holistic healers to use exotic/alien plants for miraculous results, preferably paired with xenobotany or xenobiology skills. Not everything needs to be plant based, as often animal body parts can be considered useful in holistic medicine (spider webs for clotting and leeches for wound therapy, gross!)."

#2

Definitely Use common sense. This feedback / opinion thing is to keep my ideas in the realm of good common sense.

So Deaden Pain Good

I figure a prerequisite ought be that it is prepared and administered by someone with the skill.

Made me think, how many Medical Doctors and such are their in CS territory and such. With literacy rates being what they are in Rifts Earth they must be precious and few. Mostly taught between parent and child I imagine. More in cities like Lazlo, New Lazlo, and Tolkeen. Also, the NGR and those Rifted cities in Japan.

I imagine, maybe 100 doctors per million people. With the CS's 12 million offical citizens that's like 1,200 MD's.

I'd imagine people would have unoffical "rules" in game about not killing Medical Doctors. The probably have a guild or something with coats or badges signalling them as OFF LIMITS Non Combatant. I don't remember but I think they even have rules about that in the real world. As long as they don't pick up a gun.

#3

I see the potential for abuse. I also know my players do that with physical skills. Boxing, Gymnastics and Running are the go to skills for most. So, in my mind they are already doing it.
Besides, I don't know any players or GM who play by the 3d6 only rule when rolling attributes.
But I don't know everyone but I do know players don't play to be normal characters living every day lives.

[Grazzik]

If you play a "CS is illiterate" game, I'd say there are lots of doctors in the CS - just many may be unable to read or write a prescription. They simply forward the pharmacy a verbal recording of the doctor's instructions authorized with a voice/retina print, confirmed by blockchain.

Plug your data link in to get all the latest graphical sensor data overlaid on a wireframe of the patient, no alphabet needed.

Got a rash, use paste from the pink tube. Got a fever, the green pill. Severed arm, attach the cyberarm exactly how it was taught and practiced ad nauseum in VR. Don't know what to do? Verbally chat with the Med-AI to diagnose and follow the video prompts on the screen. Or get verbal prompts from a medical robot nurse.

No books needed, just lots of audio/visual training and visual dashboards with icons. Med schools are likely online in VR and surgeries could be done remotely using sensor gloves to guide the surgical drone in an operating room hundreds of miles away. Research and certain specialist doctors are likely to be exceptions and literate simply to access archived data from the before times, but the run of the mill family and clinical doctors, or even surgeons, don't need to be able to read if supported with sufficient technology.

If you really think about it, assuming all the ubiquitous future tech potentially available in handheld, wearable, implant or drone form factors, the only time you HAVE to read in a major city on Rifts Earth is when you use a magic scroll.

[darthauthor]

I must confess. I never consider that Medical Doctors could be educated and trained without literacy and an in person mentor.

Part of my opinion was that Medical Doctors are very few in Rifts Earth.

You have just explained how their could be many more than I thought.

Don't know the average human's feelings about psionic healing in the CS territory.

From what I thought I remember about most people in North America, they are illiterate, uneducated, both lacking and fearful of technology, fearful of magic and assoicate it with those who would take advantage of or enslave them.

Medical Doctors, without magic, are revered as healers.

I thought that within the walled cities of the CS the top half of their society and those of technical necessity are required to be literate including their doctors.

What I meant by illiterate was that the CS tries to control its people on the bottom by discouraging literacy and controlling the availability of reading material. Its straight out of Fahrenheit 451. Likewise, the availability of technology is also limited to those of privilage or necessity.

And it works. The people are easier to control.

As a consequence, I believed that their are fewer medical doctors. The scarcer they are the more valuable. Their value makes them a prime target for kidnaping but also keeps them on the must capture alive list of the bounty board. A dead Doctor isn't good for anyones health.

So I figured they, when identifiable and unarmed, will never be shot or killed unless in self defense. Also, that they would belong to an organization with a reputation and a nationally recognized symbol like the RED CROSS or something. The whole point of which is so that people won't shot them no matter what.

[Grazzik]

Granted, that could all be the case. Even with lots of doctors, anyone with medical training would be targets as they'd have access to info about specific people, they'd be valuable if smuggled out of the cities to the Burbs or wilderness communities, or even just for ransom as they'd likely not be poor given they'd likely get at least a govt stipend for their services in the worst public clinic.

IRL never hire for skills, hire for talent. Talent is rare and skills can always be taught. Same for medicine, as talentless people can still learn medicine and potentially become doctors. Considering not all doctors are the same, it's the doctors with talent that would be best protected or recovered alive. Though, even lousy doctors take years to train up, so CS efforts to rescue alive would still be taken.

With the CS retcon of psychics, it's very possible that urban psychic healers are identified early on in life and trained specifically for the most important needs. Think battlefront healers (patch 'em up and ship 'em back to the lines fast) or the healers of the upper echelon (fast, clean, no scars).

Regular citizens in cities and towns might have access to regular doctors very much like today. Specialists would be part of the elite and literate (only 12% of citizens are literate, RUE pg 28). However, most doctors for the ordinary citizenry, though educated, may not be literate. They could definitely be identified with a symbol, whatever works for your game - the rod of Asclepius (most likely due to prevalence of the symbol on Pre-Rifts ambulances), the caduceus, red cross/crescent/crystal, etc. Whether they are not targeted comes down to the targeter's alignment.

Side note: education is a double edged sword. It's needed to perform a technical function, but may lead to curiosity and misuse through a FALSE sense of privilege. Ordinary, illiterate doctors could still become illegal teachers or criminally provide services to dbees or non-citizens. On the flip side, illiterate doctors would be so used to believing what they are told because of their training that they may be ultra-patriotic and serve as State agents. Oh, and by illiterate, I generally mean a functioning society that extensively uses icons, numbers, and audio/video, but no text. Think emojis, TikTok and Alexa all rolled into one, on steroids. Hmm, come to think of it...

Rural towns are likely to have maybe a couple doctors with support staff. Possibly even retired doctors that could be called on in emergencies. Often retired doctors may take on more administrative roles, like a mayor or ISS official monitoring for dbees or other strangeness. As per RUE (pg 87), most doctors who leave the safety of city walls are armed and willing to protect themselves. Nobody but ancient historians knows anything about the Geneva Conventions, certainly not DBee raiders. For most of history, doctors and medics were fair game.

Villages, outposts, and the fringe of the wilderness would likely have no doctors, relying on military facilities, civilian medics or nurses, supplemented with medical robots and holistic healers, local psi-healers and even the black market body chop shops for surgery (with or without implants involved, as needs must). However, you are right that psi-healers are probably viewed suspiciously, as who knows if they are magic users instead. The average peasant wouldn't know the difference. And if they were patriotic psychics, why weren't they already scooped up by the authorities and sent to those fancy schools in the City...

In the wilds, there'd be no doctors except travelling healers and people have to fend for themselves. I'd doubt CS doctors go around the wilds advertising their status, since in a post-apocalyptic fight the first to be targeted should be the doctor or medic. It forces your opponent to retreat sooner if their losses start to pile up. In RUE (pg 237), the technical officer with Medical MOS has a specific patch, which I'd guess they remove when deployed to avoid becoming a target. Psi-healers would still have the PSI emblazoned on their armor, but that could be considered an intimidation tactic more than anything else since there is no difference between a psi-healer and a zapper in armor.

On technology, why restrict approved tech? It is a fantastic way of monitoring the doings of the citizenry. Snitches get Switches (or their Rifts equivalent). That's why the CS allows even their enemies to use their Credit system as a currency (GMG pg 13). Simply suppress the use of text and people will need to use audio or video which allows the state to directly associate a person to prescribed treasonous chatter. Text gives a degree of anonymity. The further away from urban centers, the less sophisticated the tech may become and the harder to monitor. Most likely supplemented with BM knock-offs, homemade parts, rifted imports, Pre-Rifts salvage, etc. That stuff is likely heavily policed by ISS.

Now I grant you that everyone will have a different style of control attributed to the CS. Some may play them as blatantly repressive with iron shod jackboots in a feudal society, others may have them subtly insidious with the veneer of freedom moderated from the shadows. I usually do both depending on the setting. Jackboot security in the wilds and the streets of the Burbs, twisted liberties and patriotic exuberance within city walls.

Just my thoughts, would love to hear other opinions.

[darthauthor]

Me too!

You ideas and memories are impressive. I forgot or never knew the position of the CS had been retconned about pyschics.

I was completely in the dark about how the CS uses tech to spy on people.

I did not think of the CS restricing tech (except weapons, alien tech - Naruni, Techno Wizard devices, AI, etc). I thought technology was limited because of materials, costs, low manufacturing (I believe the CS concentraites on Defense and Military hardware), technical skills necessary to operate, maintain and repair (parts, tools to work on, etc).

Poor people can't afford expensive things.

Having an energy pistol is great but once the E-clip is used up one is not likely to find a charger in the wild.

While the bullets for handguns will eventually turn into duds as moister creps in, unless they are shot. Then what? Even IF they know how to pack ammo where do they find the gunpowder or how do they make it quickly and in large amounts?

So too, I believe, it is with tech.

Flashlight or radio brakes then whatcha gonna do?

[Killer Cyborg]

Wanted to ask the group for some feedback on ideas about Medical and Science skills.

I am toying with the idea of making those with Medical skills more powerful.

In groups almost no one take Medical MD and those who do almost never use it. IF healing is performed it is almost exclusively psionic or magical.

So I thought, "How can the medical doctor or Holistic medicine man compete with that?"

I appreciate the issue, but I would NOT respond by letting doctors just heal people instantly with existing real-world medical tech like blood transfusions and bandages and such..
We already have rules for humans healing HP/SDC; it's at a pretty realistic pace, and medical care already factors into things. At most, I'd boost the existing healing rates by some minor degree.

Because if you've ever gotten a significant cut or injury in real life, you should know that it takes TIME to heal.

And part of the point of magic and psionics is that they're supposed to be wondrous, impressive. The current system supports that.

If you want to make medicine-based character more competitive, I'd suggest:

a) Creating new medicines and medical tech that requires a skill check to use. For example:
-Give them some sort of tech "healing ray" that can close wounds instantly IF it's used properly. If used improperly, it might actually cause damage. You could do this on multiple levels, with a variety of devices each roughly competitive with a different spell.
Have these be expensive, but maybe let medical OCCs start off with a gadge
-Keep in mind that for characters who HAVE a skill, making checks aren't done every single time a person does something related to that skill, but rather only when something tricky is being attempted. A ninja doesn't need to make prowl checks while playing Hide & Seek with children, unless there's something unusual going on. A doctor doesn't need to make medical skill checks while performing routine duties of their profession, only when something unusually difficult is happening, like having to use skills while under fire, or pressed for time, or with improvised tools and such.

b) Include more issues in the game that are not direct damage, things like diseases and poisons. Spells that heal damage will not heal lowered attributes, combat penalties, or other issues that can arise from being poisoned or infected with disease.
And in cases where the cause of the problems is unknown, using a magic/psychic power that cures disease might probably won't work if the root problem is a poison, and vice-versa.
Proper diagnoses can save some ISP/PPE here or there, if nothing else.
Also, focus on preventative care; vaccines and medicines that give a bonus to save vs diseases/drugs/poisons if taken beforehand, that kind of thing.

Holistic Medicine taking on greater power with the use of alien plants (from other dimensions or worlds in the Rifts Earth galaxy) that have taken root in Rifts Earth. They came into the land via the Rifts or planted by D-Bees.

So these plants (on their own or processed) can have super healing properties given the character (when properly prepared, brewing/chemistry and adminstered by an Holistic Medicine expert the ability to quickly heal and be back in the game the next day.
I'd add the condition that the character has to make a save or roll for psychological issues. Likewise, the character will have to gorge themselves with food relative to the amount of SDC/HP restored.

This will make food skills even more vital forcing the character to have to fish, forage/gather, hunt, identify plants and fruits, trapping and cooking. Leading to more skill roll and experience rewards for the characters.

This works. You don't have to change the skill, just make up new plants/herbs/etc. and the effects.

Reward characters for taking Paramedic or Holesistic medicine with a +1 IQ bonus. For Medical Doctor, +2 IQ

Likewise, +1 to IQ for every science (above Basic: Math) skill taken.

Nah.
Medical training doesn't increase intelligence; it's a requirement to some degree, but not an effect.

BUT you could have some kind of synergistic bonus between different medical skills.
Like for every medical skill you take, you get +1% to other medical skills or something.

[Grazzik]

Great points, KC. Your comment re preventative care got me thinking about the medical aspects of radiation poisoning. It's something I have often overlooked since PCs wear EBA a lot, but contamination could happen in water or food sources.

Darthauthor, re psychic healers and retcon - CS citizens were "terrified" of psychics due to propaganda (RMB pg 102), but in WB 12 (pg 145) the process of recruitment into the military makes psychic recruits "a respected member of society" who are trusted. Probably written in to explain how 25% of citizens can be psychic and not have regular purges in cities or massive anti-psi violence. However, it makes sense that the advantages of psi-healing were probably recognized by the powers that be early on, though the general citizenry were convinced to use regular doctors instead through propaganda.

[darthauthor]

So the concensus is:

1. Holistic Medicine skilled people can use extra dimensional/supernatural plants, animals, and DBees to heal people with effects competing with magic and psionics.

While Medical Doctors may or may NOT speed healing depending upon the technology in their possession. Tech with only someone of their skills can use effectively.

So psionics and magic heal saving a fortune in money and time.

While Doctors (Holestic and traditional) have to prepare hours if not days in advance, rely on tech, costs a fortune regardless of success and is time consuming. BUT they can treat more patients then a Psychic has ISP (unless they are near a ley line) or a magic user has PPE.

2. Holistic Medicine people and Medical Doctors can reproduce effects similair to Psionics (but use common sense). Examples: Deaden pain, Induce Sleep, Resist Fatigue, etc).

3. You guys don't think its a good idea to reward science skills with attribute bonuses to IQ.

[green.nova343]

So the concensus is:

1. Holistic Medicine skilled people can use extra dimensional/supernatural plants, animals, and DBees to heal people with effects competing with magic and psionics.

While Medical Doctors may or may NOT speed healing depending upon the technology in their possession. Tech with only someone of their skills can use effectively.

So psionics and magic heal saving a fortune in money and time.

While Doctors (Holestic and traditional) have to prepare hours if not days in advance, rely on tech, costs a fortune regardless of success and is time consuming. BUT they can treat more patients then a Psychic has ISP (unless they are near a ley line) or a magic user has PPE.

2. Holistic Medicine people and Medical Doctors can reproduce effects similair to Psionics (but use common sense). Examples: Deaden pain, Induce Sleep, Resist Fatigue, etc).

3. You guys don't think its a good idea to reward science skills with attribute bonuses to IQ.

Biggest difference in RAW is how, even if you don't have access to magic or psionics, someone with the Medical Doctor skill can still heal Hit Point damage. As per RUE, p. 288:

Medical treatment can be administered by fellow characters with First Aid, Paramedic, and other medical skills, trained medical personnel, psychics with healing powers, practitioners of magic wielding healing spells, or by oneself provided the character has the appropriate medical skill and is not so injured as to be physically impaired. This is fine for minor wounds, but serious injuries, like internal injury, gunshot wounds, and broken bones, will require professional treatment (or magical or psionic healing). (emphasis added)

In other words, First Aid (& potentially Paramedic skill) are fine for dealing with minor injuries, but if a character has suffered serious damage and doesn't have access to psychic or magic healing, they will need a Medical Doctor (or equivalent) to fix them up. There's also the difference between "non-professional treatment" and "professional treatment" for HP recovery (former is 2 HP & 4 SDC every 24 hours; latter is 2 HP/6 SDC per day for the first two days, 4 HP/6 SDC per day after that). Professional treatment is defined as:

...medical treatment from a doctor, clinic or hospital. (emphasis added)

I would also add that the blood loss rules on that page (1 HP/minute unless the bleeding is stopped) is also listed on p. 354, which adds that MDC creatures can bleed as well (1 MDC/minute unless the bleeding is stopped). Page 354 also goes more into blood loss, however, where it starts once you've lost more than half your HP (or, if an MDC creature, probably your base MDC), & more about falling into a coma (i.e. you went into negative HP/MDC, equal to or less than your PE attribute, & able to survive for 1 hour per PE attribute point before dying). The coma recovery table on p. 355 specifies the situations that allow this to happen...with First Aid as a minimum, but only providing an 18% chance of success (roll 3 times, needs to be successful twice). Interns/RNs are probably equivalent to Paramedic skill, but that's only a 32% chance. Even without a clinic or access to hospital facilities, however, someone with the Medical Doctor skill has a 46% chance of success even without the proper facilities (i.e. no crash cart, no AED, no adrenaline or epinephrine shots, etc.). So even in the middle of the wilderness, having a Medical Doctor character along can double or triple your chances of surviving a coma.

Then there's the tiered level of care you can get:

• First Aid: can bandage your wounds, put a splint on you, administer CPR, knows how to disinfect a wound, & you can administer common anti-inflammatories & painkillers. That latter means aspirin, ibuprofen, acetaminophen, & the like, not stronger controlled substances like hydrocodone, oxycontin, oxytocin, Dilaudid, etc.
• Paramedic: not only knows the First Aid-level stuff, but can actually suture shut wounds, set broken bones (not just tie a splint onto it), use medical equipment (oxygen systems, AED/defibrillators, etc.), & even administer certain life-saving drugs. But that's the limit of their knowledge. They can't, for example, diagnose whether you have seasonal allergies, a cold, or something more serious.
• Field Surgery: falls somewhere between Paramedic & full doctor. They can not only amputate limbs to attempt to save someone's life, but actually suture shut arteries & veins, safely cauterize wounds, determine if you're bleeding internally, & administer blood transfusions. Rifts also lets them install cybernetics with a penalty (unless a Cyber-Doc). However, it's risky to use these skills, & usually reserved for life-or-death situations where a patient can't survive until a hospital is reached.
• Medical Doctor: has the knowledge of the Paramedic, & the non-emergency surgical expertise of the Field Surgeon (which is why having this skill gives a bonus to Field Surgery). But they not only can administer emergency care, they are diagnosticians. These are the people that can figure out if that runny nose is just because there's a high pollen count, or because you picked up Ryzimbian Fever from a D-Bee that popped through a Rift. They also have the full training for delivering babies, actually repairing internal bleeding & injuries (rather than just detecting them), as well as knowledge about medicines & treatments for conditions. In a pinch, they can also operate on animals, but at a penalty.
• Cyber-Doc: basically a Medical Doctor that specializes more on the surgical side, particularly on surgery to add cybernetic implants. Bionics are a little more difficult, but they can also specialize (taking it twice plus Electrical Engineering) to eliminate their penalty (& get a bonus).
• I'll also toss in Veterinary Science. Vets are essentially trained as doctors, but with the expectation that their patients will be animals, not humans. As such, I would say it's the opposite of MDs working on animals: in a pinch they can work on humans (just with a penalty).

So having a Medical Doctor in a town in Rifts Earth is going to be a major boon. Their services will fetch a premium & they can probably either live very comfortably, or expect to at least have their needs met before others in the time (i.e. they get food even if everyone else is a little short). It may even lead to situations like the episode "Safe" on Firefly, where Simon Tam was kidnapped by a rogue settlement outside of the town because he was a doctor (fully trained on the Central Worlds & very talented). In a pinch, though, a town might do with a Vet, or even a couple of people with full Paramedic training, because that gives their residents a higher chance of surviving than just relying on First Aid.

It's also why I imagine the CS & other humanoid-focused military forces on Rifts Earth will also focus on having as many highly-trained medical personnel as possible. Yes, healing spells & psionics can be useful, but a mage will only have so much PPE, a psychic only so much ISP, before they have to rest & meditate. And that's assuming that the psionic or spell can actually do as much. Healing Touch is only good for minor things (cuts, burns, bruises, etc.), & limited to 2D6 SDC or 2D4 HP. Increased Healing allows for faster HP/SDC recovery, but it's still per 24 hour period. Psychic Surgery is nice, but has a high ISP cost, requires the use of Deaden Pain (or the subject will feel every bit of the surgery), & will most likely first require Psychic Diagnosis to determine where the internal injuries are. Light Healing spell is half as effective as Healing Touch. Heal Wounds is slightly better than Healing Touch, but if you don't pull a bullet out the subject will be affected by it (-1 to PE & PP) until it's removed. Greater Healing is very powerful, but costs a lot of PPE, as does Super Healing (MDC beings only). Restoration has a horrendously high PPE cost, to the point that you'll either need a ritual or a lot of PPE donors to pull it off. Ironically, I'm surprised there aren't healing-focused mages in Rifts; we have combat-focused mages that only need half the normal PPE cost to cast combat-based spells, but no healing mages that I can think of where healing spells cost half normal PPE to use.

[Killer Cyborg]

Yeah, just consistently enforcing the Bleed rules gives Medical Skills an edge, for a party that gets into a lot of combat.
If after every battle, everybody who was cut/stabbed/shot has to have their bleeding stopped, a magic or psychic healer might start running low on juice before a medic runs out of band-aids.

Although MDC beings with bio-regeneration would heal up on their own, rather than bleeding out.

[darthauthor]

Well written green.nova343,

I like how you describe things.

I forgot or did not understand that healing touch could not cure all (except for cancer, diseases, poison, and all that sort thing).

Also, didn't understand the Medical Doctor cybernetics thing. I assumed the Cyber Doc could already do that. However they describe it, I assumed it was meant for the Body Fixer. So, if I understand it "now" the cyber Doc or Body Fixer has to use Related Skills to be able to install cybernetics?

How does that work with psychic surgery?

I admit that the Mind Melter and such can't take skills in Medical Doc or cybernetic surgery.
So that leave a Body Fixer who is a psychic with healing psionics.

The only problem I see with spells or psionics is they are only good for those 1 or 2 patients until the "doc spell caster" is out of gas (ISP / PPE). A medical Doctor, or such, can treat disease, and keep on performing operations. So in a city of police getting gun shots, knife wounds and generally hurt by one form of damage or another (as well as civilian victims) a Medical Doctor is the closest thing that can keep up with the number of wounded and sick.

The magic user / psychic is the champion of the moment in treating select medical problems instantly, on the spot, without preparation or materials (medicine - holistic or pharma, expensive bionics/cybernetics) and at the cost of ISP / PPE.

Adventures need quick fixes to get back into the adventure.

Population centers need diagnosticians who can treat the better part of a 20+ patients a day.

Most adventures I have been on or done the adventurers are almost never damaged. MD armor or armor of Ithan keeps them from ever being damaged. That is why I prefer SDC adventures. Or maybe what I really don't like is players running head long into MD laser fire without cover, cover fire, smoke screen who would be toast if not for the repeated stream of Armor of Ithan spells and psychic force fields cast on them.

Ah, but a good old fashioned bare nuckle fight, there is a guy on the floor after their done. House rule is, (unless using hand to hand Assassin) it takes twice as many SDC points damage and Hit Point damage to kill them with bare hands. Which typically means they had to keep beating them when they are down or throw them threw the window and such. Those with Wrestling skill get to render them unconscious with a chock hold unless they make a save (recover in in 1d4 rounds). That or they just strangle them to death.

The guy who got beat up, winds up in a cast or psionically healed. Now, if I read you correctly, there is no short cut on broken bones. Surgery, psychic or Medical Doc, can make them straight but not WHOLE and mended again. I guess they have to wait, like the rest of us.

I wonder if wounded character would play smarter. Well, I imagine they will sneak around more and knock out guys from behind.

[darthauthor]

I just rememberd.

The Necromancer has a spell, "Mend Living Bone", its a level-7 Necromancy spell (20 PPE for mortal bones).

magically set and mend broken bones, making them as good as new (restoring 1D6 Hit Points in the process). Fractured and broken bones are instantly pul back into place and mended, allowing
the injured to walk again without lasting pain or impairment. However, this magic mends only the bone, not damage done to injured or torn muscles or tissue/skin. Thus, other wounds attributed to the injury (cuts, abrasions, the bone puncturing the muscle or skin) will require medical treatment and/or other types of magic or psionic healing.

[green.nova343]

I just rememberd.

The Necromancer has a spell, "Mend Living Bone", its a level-7 Necromancy spell (20 PPE for mortal bones).

magically set and mend broken bones, making them as good as new (restoring 1D6 Hit Points in the process). Fractured and broken bones are instantly pul back into place and mended, allowing
the injured to walk again without lasting pain or impairment. However, this magic mends only the bone, not damage done to injured or torn muscles or tissue/skin. Thus, other wounds attributed to the injury (cuts, abrasions, the bone puncturing the muscle or skin) will require medical treatment and/or other types of magic or psionic healing.

I'm going to make a healer Necromancer just because of that...

[green.nova343]

Well written green.nova343,

I like how you describe things.

I forgot or did not understand that healing touch could not cure all (except for cancer, diseases, poison, and all that sort thing).

Also, didn't understand the Medical Doctor cybernetics thing. I assumed the Cyber Doc could already do that. However they describe it, I assumed it was meant for the Body Fixer. So, if I understand it "now" the cyber Doc or Body Fixer has to use Related Skills to be able to install cybernetics?

How does that work with psychic surgery?

Those are very good questions.

For the first, Cyber-Docs are better at performing the surgeries involved with installing or removing cybernetics from people (better than a Medical Doctor), but not as good at the general medicine side (hence with their dual bases on the skill their diagnosis base is lower than MD but their surgical base is higher). The Body-Fixer is the O.C.C. most associated with the Cyber-Doc skill, but I think it might be possible for other O.C.C.s with access to the Medical Skills category to potentially select the skill (but I could be wrong).

For the actual installation/surgery, you need surgical skills. So someone with Field Surgery could theoretically attempt to install them (or more likely remove damaged ones & replace them with new ones), but they have a very low percentage base. Medical Doctors can also attempt it, but they have a penalty I believe to work on cybernetics. Cyber-Docs are the best bet...& if bionics are involved everyone (except the specialty Cyber-Docs as I mentioned) then an additional penalty goes on top of it.

For psychic surgery...that's kind of a tough one. I mean, characters can have cybernetics/bionics & have their own psychic abilities unaffected...but also have a threshold above which they start suffering range/ISP penalties, & a 2nd threshold at which they lose access to them.

That being said...I think the main reason for Psychic Surgery is to be able to perform surgery using your hands instead of surgical instruments. So I could possibly see being able to use it to install/remove cybernetic implants or even bionics...but my only issue is that I feel like Psychic Surgery should have some sort of skill role associated with it, because as it is it implies that a psychic with no medical training will automatically be successful in surgery, even better than an MD in a fully-equipped surgical theatre. So it might need to be combined with a skill role based on the applicable skill the psychic has...& if they don't have an applicable surgical skill (Field Surgery, MD, Cybernetic Medicine, etc.), then the base percentage for Field Surgery (16%) should apply.

I admit that the Mind Melter and such can't take skills in Medical Doc or cybernetic surgery.
So that leave a Body Fixer who is a psychic with healing psionics.

The only problem I see with spells or psionics is they are only good for those 1 or 2 patients until the "doc spell caster" is out of gas (ISP / PPE). A medical Doctor, or such, can treat disease, and keep on performing operations. So in a city of police getting gun shots, knife wounds and generally hurt by one form of damage or another (as well as civilian victims) a Medical Doctor is the closest thing that can keep up with the number of wounded and sick.

The magic user / psychic is the champion of the moment in treating select medical problems instantly, on the spot, without preparation or materials (medicine - holistic or pharma, expensive bionics/cybernetics) and at the cost of ISP / PPE.

Adventures need quick fixes to get back into the adventure.

Population centers need diagnosticians who can treat the better part of a 20+ patients a day.

Most adventures I have been on or done the adventurers are almost never damaged. MD armor or armor of Ithan keeps them from ever being damaged. That is why I prefer SDC adventures. Or maybe what I really don't like is players running head long into MD laser fire without cover, cover fire, smoke screen who would be toast if not for the repeated stream of Armor of Ithan spells and psychic force fields cast on them.

Ah, but a good old fashioned bare nuckle fight, there is a guy on the floor after their done. House rule is, (unless using hand to hand Assassin) it takes twice as many SDC points damage and Hit Point damage to kill them with bare hands. Which typically means they had to keep beating them when they are down or throw them threw the window and such. Those with Wrestling skill get to render them unconscious with a chock hold unless they make a save (recover in in 1d4 rounds). That or they just strangle them to death.

The guy who got beat up, winds up in a cast or psionically healed. Now, if I read you correctly, there is no short cut on broken bones. Surgery, psychic or Medical Doc, can make them straight but not WHOLE and mended again. I guess they have to wait, like the rest of us.

I wonder if wounded character would play smarter. Well, I imagine they will sneak around more and knock out guys from behind.

Very well said. It's also one of the reasons why I feel sometimes that we may need to get away from the "all MD weapons inflict Mega-Damage on human/SDC targets". Specifically, I think that handheld MDC weapons shouldn't do so. I'll even avoid the discussion of energy rifles/pistols & how fast the energy would transfer through flesh. Let's just look at vibro-blades. A vibro-knife (1D6 MD) is a fairly small weapon...it's a fricking knife, after all. Yet even at minimum damage (1 MD), RAW basically says that it will completely obliterate 99% of S.D.C. humans (1 MD = 100 S.D.C.), & most humans/humanoids don't have anywhere near 100 HP/SDC. Even worse, take an unconverted SDC vehicle, like the Daimler Ferret Mk 2/3 scout car from the Compendium of Modern Weapons (Main Body 425 SDC), an average swipe from a vibro-knife will nearly take it out (1D6 MD average to 3-4 MD, or 300-400 SDC). A single slash, when the vehicle is so large that a single slash couldn't physically be done to be able to deal that much damage. However, I also don't want to completely nerf these handheld MDC weapons against larger MDC targets.

Which is why I usually rule they do some sort of conversion instead of the 1:100. I usually consider something like 1:3, based on how the SDC vibro-blades in Aliens Unlimited compare. So John Smith (CS trooper) has taken some heavy damage to his body armor (12 MDC left), but takes a hit from an NG-P7 P-Beam rifle (1D4x10 MD). Attacker rolls 27. RAW says John Smith is toasted, roasted, & vaporized, because his squishy body took 15 MDC (27-12). Instead, though, we modify it, & he takes 45 SDC (15x3). Unfortunately, John only had 18 SDC & 20 HP (3rd level, PE 14), so he's now in a coma with -7 HP...but he's still technically alive (can survive down to -14 HP, & can survive for up to 14 hours before dying), & if he gets medical attention he will live. If he'd had some more SDC (say 28 SDC), he would have remained awake, but would have been left with only 3 HP, & would be bleeding out from the trauma (lose 1 HP/minute), so would need medical attention ASAP to avoid falling into a coma.

Like you said, having to worry about these kind of situations makes medical experts much more important to adventurer parties...especially those that can provide medical care without relying on psionics and/or magic.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't have a problem playing Mega-Damage as it lies.
With things like vibro-blades, I assume the wound channel is much bigger than the width of the blade. The description of the weapons describe being surrounded by a high-frequency energy field, and there's nothing saying that energy field isn't like 6" across or something. For that matter, there's nothing describing what effects this field has on flesh or other substances, other than the flat damage rating we're given.
Sure, there are vibro-scalpels in the books somewhere, but I can just write that off with "different blades have different sizes/shapes of energy field," and not think about it too much.
Any fantasy setting falls apart if one things about it too much, especially one with giant robots and such.

For me, the deadliness of Mega-Damage is one of the big draws of the game.
Although I do agree that it can limit the usefulness of medical skills.


I have toyed with the idea of having damage pass through armor to some extent, but never playtested it. Something like, for every 1 MD your armor takes, you personally take 1 SDC/HP damage. That might be too deadly, but it could be changed to any other ratio. This would give medics more to do, without nerfing mega-damage.

[darthauthor]

By the way,

What are your opinions on a Medical Doctor or Psychic (psychic surgery) changing a persons face?

Two purposes:

1. A wanted adventurer need to be disguised.

2. An espionage operation where the player needs to look like a specific person. Maybe a Mind Melter who needs a longer duration then possess another allows.

[darthauthor]

Thought of applications of spells:

1. See Aura (6) to see • Health: Sick, injured or completely well.

2. Cleanse (6): To clean wounds and prevent infection.

3. Breathe Without Air (5): To substitute for CPR or a tracheotomy.

4. Imperivous to Poison (5): to Cure or end the effects of poison.

5. Negate Poison/Toxin (5): End the Effect of poison (maybe allergy?).

6. Cure Minor Disorders (10): Over the Counter Flu, cold, allergy, pain reliever, etc

7. Heal Wounds (10): bruises, cuts, gashes, bullet wounds, burned flesh and pulled
muscles. It will not help against illness, internal damage to organs or nerves, broken bones or poisons/drugs.

8. Superhuman Endurance (12): Keep someone awake and fighting their illness. Maybe get a re-roll on a saving throw with a +2 bonus.

9. Sustain (12): When the patient can't eat or drink anything or keep it down. Maybe help against allergic reactions or such. If they can breath? Maybe substitute for blood transfusion (puts off the need for blood until the spell wears off)?

10. Cure Illness (15): cure ordinary disease and illness, such as fever, flu, and other common diseases or sickness caused by bacteria.

11. Purge Other (100): Cleanses the body of all toxins, drugs (including alcohol), disease, impurities, parasites or possessing forces, and the character feels fully rested, refreshed, and totally clean. Whatever physical damage, scarring, deformity or mutation that may have occurred while being ravaged by the foreign agents remain, although all symptoms, effects, penalties and potential future damage instantly stops and the cause is eliminated. (is this the same as Psychic Purification?)

12. Restore Limb (80)

Say, I thought something I asked the magic thread. Can the Petrification spell be used to stop a patient from dying? They they mend stone or carry the stone to hospital or bring a healer to the statue?

[green.nova343]

By the way,

What are your opinions on a Medical Doctor or Psychic (psychic surgery) changing a persons face?

Two purposes:

1. A wanted adventurer need to be disguised.

2. An espionage operation where the player needs to look like a specific person. Maybe a Mind Melter who needs a longer duration then possess another allows.

I'm not sure, I hadn't considered this one before. However, while I think Psychic Surgery would normally be limited, as long as the character has the MD or Cybernetic Medicine skill (or even Field Surgery), I would allow them to use it instead of regular surgical instruments.

[green.nova343]

Thought of applications of spells:

1. See Aura (6) to see • Health: Sick, injured or completely well.

2. Cleanse (6): To clean wounds and prevent infection.

3. Breathe Without Air (5): To substitute for CPR or a tracheotomy.

4. Imperivous to Poison (5): to Cure or end the effects of poison.

5. Negate Poison/Toxin (5): End the Effect of poison (maybe allergy?).

6. Cure Minor Disorders (10): Over the Counter Flu, cold, allergy, pain reliever, etc

7. Heal Wounds (10): bruises, cuts, gashes, bullet wounds, burned flesh and pulled
muscles. It will not help against illness, internal damage to organs or nerves, broken bones or poisons/drugs.

8. Superhuman Endurance (12): Keep someone awake and fighting their illness. Maybe get a re-roll on a saving throw with a +2 bonus.

9. Sustain (12): When the patient can't eat or drink anything or keep it down. Maybe help against allergic reactions or such. If they can breath? Maybe substitute for blood transfusion (puts off the need for blood until the spell wears off)?

10. Cure Illness (15): cure ordinary disease and illness, such as fever, flu, and other common diseases or sickness caused by bacteria.

11. Purge Other (100): Cleanses the body of all toxins, drugs (including alcohol), disease, impurities, parasites or possessing forces, and the character feels fully rested, refreshed, and totally clean. Whatever physical damage, scarring, deformity or mutation that may have occurred while being ravaged by the foreign agents remain, although all symptoms, effects, penalties and potential future damage instantly stops and the cause is eliminated. (is this the same as Psychic Purification?)

12. Restore Limb (80)

Say, I thought something I asked the magic thread. Can the Petrification spell be used to stop a patient from dying? They they mend stone or carry the stone to hospital or bring a healer to the statue?

I put my response in the other thread (viewtopic.php?f=39&t=185634&p=3129553#p3129553).

[Grazzik]

I just rememberd.

The Necromancer has a spell, "Mend Living Bone", its a level-7 Necromancy spell (20 PPE for mortal bones).

magically set and mend broken bones, making them as good as new (restoring 1D6 Hit Points in the process). Fractured and broken bones are instantly pul back into place and mended, allowing
the injured to walk again without lasting pain or impairment. However, this magic mends only the bone, not damage done to injured or torn muscles or tissue/skin. Thus, other wounds attributed to the injury (cuts, abrasions, the bone puncturing the muscle or skin) will require medical treatment and/or other types of magic or psionic healing.

I'm going to make a healer Necromancer just because of that...

You may want to have a look at the Fleshsculpter OCC in Nightbane WB3. Many of their spells can be used for not just cosmetic surgery, but also for therapeutic surgery. Probably a better fit than trying to turn a necromancer into a healer of the living.

[darthauthor]

You have a point,

However, in universe story wise, Necromancers are more common on Rifts Earth then Fleshscuplters.

I may be wrong but Fleshscuplters are just in Nightbane? Plus they are pretty Evil, at least most of them. Hard to contact I imagine. Not likely to do anyone any favors. At best, one might hire them or threaten them with violence torture if they don't work for them or do a bad job.
I mean, a shifter would have to rift to Nightbane Earth. Find out about them. Find a way to meet with them. Hire them, abduct them, theaten them or steal their magic, I guess.

I lot of hoops to jump through.

Sure there are bad guy Necromancers but the greater the number of them the better the chances of some of them being good or at least they will keep their word. I believe the vampire hunters of Mexico probably have the safest number of good aligned necromancers.


.

[Grazzik]

However, in universe story wise, Necromancers are more common on Rifts Earth then Fleshscuplters.

I may be wrong but Fleshscuplters are just in Nightbane?

They are an OCC and just another magical discipline, so they can be as rare or as common as you, the GM, want. The fluff says they are relatively new in the Nightbane world, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be independently developed and more common in a PPE rich world like Rifts Earth. Interesting limiter, though, is that they must be at least minor psychics. This means that less than 25% of human mages can become fleshsculpters. Perhaps, as a story twist, they are the next evolution of psi-healers to something more powerful...?

Plus they are pretty Evil, at least most of them.

There are both good and bad. Only a "handful" work for the Nightlords. No alignment restrictions or breakdowns, so can't really assume that they are evil. Could definitely see a few working for Doctors Without Borders helping the injured civilians in warzones. Many of the spells are of a helpful nature.

Just because Necromancers kill vampires, doesn't mean they are good. Perhaps, they just don't want competition for dominance of the peasants... the enemy of my enemy etc. ...

[darthauthor]

Grazzik,

You imagination is awesome!

[Grazzik]

Grazzik,

You imagination is awesome!

Thanks