Magic Net vs Carpet of Adhesion vs Other

[darthauthor]

Hey,

Reviewing these IMMOBILIZATION spells and comparing how they work and effectiveness:
Considering Victim Saving throw, chance to kill the victim while they are stuck, PPE cost, Range and Area of Effect.

Depending on the circumstances. A spell caster whose victim fails their Dodge or saving throw is TOAST in 1 melee round provided the caster has adventure buddies or has the free time to let loose with an energy weapon attack on the victim of these spells. Ah, the importance of friend and teamwork to keep your squadmate alive. Most Rifts battles, in my experience are done in a round or 2. So from my perspective duration only matters IF a trap is being set.

So the question is, what spell is the Best? Please Point out mistakes or mis-interpretations

Carpet of Adhesion. Range 30 foot per level.
So, Magic Super Glue Fly Paper for 200 square foot Area of Effect with length and wide being adjustable.
Duration: 2.5 minute per level. Cost of 10 PPE. Can be cast upon a "PERSON". Even IF the victim MAKES their saving throw versus magic they stay "STUCK" for 2d6 melee round or until the duration elapses. Effective even against cyborgs, power armor, and robots. Nothing mentioned about Dispell Magic Barrier for this spell.

Magic Net (GO to of my adventure group), Range: 60 foot. 30 seconds per level duration.
Saving Throw is a Dodge of 16+. Cost: 7 PPE
Area of Effect up to 6 human-sized victims within a 10 foot (3 m) area.
Only Mega-Damage weapons, magic weapons, and magic can cut the NET.
Takes 2 FULL melee rounds need to cut or blast out (a Dispel Magic Barriers will dispel it instantly).
Anyone caught in the Magic Net is helpless and unable to attack or defend.

Earth Warlock
Quicksand
Range: 100 foot.
Duration: 10 minutes per level. Saving Throw: NONE. Cost: 15 PPE.
Area of Effect 5 foot radious per level.
Anyone stepping into it will find himself sinking at a rate of two feet (0.6 m) per melee. Struggling doubles the sinking rate. Once submerged, the victim will drown/suffocate within four minutes (loses consciousness in two), unless the individual can hold his breath or is wearing an environmental suit/armor.
TO BE fair, it is NOT supposed to be castable any-where like Magic Net and Carpet. Need Stone or Earth (whatever that is) floor

Earth Warlock
WALL of Thorns. Range, 10 feet per level. 10 minutes per level duration. Saving Throw: NONE. Cost: 15 PPE.
Area of Effect 20 by 20 foot area, so 400 square feet.
This spell weaves a dense wall of hard, gnarled vines with long, sharp thorns. The thorns inflict only 5D6 S.D.C, damage if someone falls into them, but even pushing or chopping through them in M.D.C. armor can be time consuming; must inflict 20 M.D.C. per each 20 feet of thorns. Although it is NEVER explained if it can be cast "OVER" someone in terms of Area of Effect or just behind them, and the to left, right and in front (but it would be 4 castings).

5th Level Necromancer's
Grip of Death. Range: 100 feet (30.5 m) away. Duration: Two minutes per level.
Saving Throw: Horror Factor of 13 and dodge of 16. COST: 13 PPE
1d4+1 hands and arms of skeletons and corpses erupt from the ground to grab and ensnare everybody in the Area of Effect 10 FOOT DIAMETER.
First, each character in the area of effect must make a successful saving throw vs Horror Factor 13.
A failed save will inhibit the character's ability to dodge and is automatically ensnared by 1d4+1 of the hands rise from the grave (plus the usual penalties). Those who successfully save vs Horror Factor can attempt to dodge
in order to escape the clutches of the flailing hands of the dead. The character must make two consecutive dodges of 16 or higher (uses up two melee attacks) to get out of the area of effect. If even one dodge is missed, the character is ensnared by 1D4+1 of the hands.
Those ensnared are shook and pulled down on their knees, so they cannot simply ignore the clutching hands in an attempt to launch attacks at those outside the area of affect. Such attacks can be attempted but are done without benefit of any attribute, skill or combat bonuses — straight, unmodified die rolls. The same applies for trying to parry or dodge attacks leveled at them while in the Grip of Death! This penalty remains in effect the entire lime the characters are trapped by this magic.
Only a strength of 35 or higher (or supernatural P.S. of 20 or higher) can pull free of the hands, but one melee action is burned up for each hand that has a hold. Others can help in the effort, but they may also become ensnared by the hands from the grave as well. Chopping or blasting the grasping hand off at the base of the arm is another possibility but each arm has 13 M.D.C. and will use up the character's melee attacks (the hand vanishes once destroyed). In either case, the character must then roll two consecutive dodges of 16 or higher in order to escape other hands of the dead trying to grab victims.
Note: Negate Magic and Dispel Magic Barrier may offer a means to eradicate the entire magic spell. Anti-Magic Cloud automatically dispels it.

4th level Invocation:
Energy Field.
Range, 60 feet away. Duration: One minute per level or until it is destroyed. Saving Throw: None.
P.P.E.: 10
A protection spell turned into a temporary Jail Cell. Why? To keep them from getting away. Can't the victim shoot until the Energy Field is out of MD? YES. Then why bother? Depending on what they are shooting it will take them their 5 attacks or so of 1 melee round to get free. The magic creates a protective field of energy that can be placed around the mage, others, or an object. Area of Effect is about 8 feet (2.4 m), about 6 to 8 individuals. The energy field appears as a semitransparent wall or bubble that shimmers with a blue-white light. 60 M.D.C. BUT TOTALLY PROTECTS those it is cast upon.

BONUS Psionic Super Powers

Telekinectic Force Field
Like Energy Field Above.

Bio-Manipultion.
Paralysis.
Saving throw vs psionics. Fail and helpless to defend, attack or flee. It's really a version of the Earth Warlock's petrification spell with a duration limit.

[hup7]

Magic Net has this to say in RUE (p205) "To hurt someone already caught in a Magic Net without harming the net itself requires a Called Shot or a roll of 16 or higher to strike. Characters caught in a Magic Net can Turn to Mist or Teleport out of the net. However, this will require a successful saving throw vs magic. A character who was intangible/mist before the Net was cast is NOT caught by it" However they cannot parry / dodge / defend.

Carpet doesn't say you can't parry / dodge / defend. I expect most GMs would give a pretty hefty dodge penalty even if they allowed a dodge. But parry? Pretty sure most GMs allow parry. So round one goes to the net - they can't defend and hitting 16+ or called is not too hard. But the carpeted opponents can fight back and even defend.

Carpet of Adhesion range in RUE is 30' + 10' / level, Magic Net 60' - so not much in it really, either case you have to be pretty close. Round two: draw.

Carpet is 10'w x 20' l; so you are probably going to get 8 people max if they are bunched up. You could try some shenanigans with the shape but most GMs are going to give the opponents bonuses on saves / or less duration IF it doesn't cover enough ground beneath them. Realistically lets say 10'x20' is twice the size of the 10' (area?) net which again depending on your GM, might require a 1D6 roll. Round three to the carpet.

Duration: 10 melees per level vs 2 melees per level. Round four to the Carpet, but depending on your game style 2 melees might be plenty.

Now, save vs dodge? This comes down a bit to game play and game style - if the GM allows dodges when opponents have run out of attacks? Can you simultaneous a spell that requires a dodge? What opponents are you facing, do they have high saves or high dodge? IMHO all things being equal - rolling 12 vs 16? Round five to the net.

Round one: Damage the targets - Net
Round two: Range - draw
Round three: Area - Carpet
Round four: Duration - Carpet
Round five: Save/Dodge - Net

So not much in it? Carpet and then Net - their dodge should be lower.

Personally I much prefer the net, thematically (as a non-violent spell) and for the dodge over save. But remember ALL of this is my personal opinion and a lot depends on play style / GM.

The other spells are specifically limited to particular OCCs, so I wouldn't compare them directly. If you are that OCC you only have that choice. And Energy Field is not as effective as either IMHO. In our games 60 MDC won't last long and you cannot damage those trapped. Have fun!

[darthauthor]

Re-reading Carpet of Adhesion. The spells says its vicitms are "stuck" for 2d6 rounds even if they make the save. The spell never explains what "STUCK" means in terms of ability to attack, defend, cast spells, psionics, etc.
There is a picture in Rifts Book of Magic.

It appears, in a drawing, that a DBee is glued down (legs, left arm, and perhaps right hand).

I am guessing that it is up to the GM to decide if arms are glued down as well as legs.

While for Magic Net, the spell explicitly says, "Anyone caught in the Magic Net is helpless and unable to altack or defend."

Although I don't see why a defender could not use psionics to heal or defend themselves (body force field, Psi-sword, telekinetics use outside of the web - as long as they can see, Bio-Manipulation, etc).

comparing the 2 spells. Net taken literaly is a safer spell costing 7 PPE against Adhesives 10. I agree with you that duration won't matter after a round or 2. Adhesives only advantage is that it always works if cast upon a "person" even if they make their save vs magic. Then, even when you take the weak position that it is only ones feet that are glued down the victim can dodge (only parry), can't run away (although, I'd give it to them if they turn to mist or teleported).
If I were setting a trap with the superfly paper I'd backup the caster with a sniper or a hand-grenade.

On the defenders side, if my legs are glued down, and I'm not in panic mode, I'd call for help and start blasting.

Over and over I think it, Carpet of Adhesion has 2 things going for it. Success regardless of the defenders saving throw against magic and casting range after 2nd level.

Magic is pretty cool when you know who to use it in cooperation with others and other spells.

[hup7]

One other thing to remember is magic net forces the opponent to use up a dodge / action. Which means while it costs you and action to cast - it costs the opponent an action IF they want to defend, plus they might not even be able to defend if they are out of actions. If your GM allows simultaneous - then no dodge. But a save is not an action.

I wouldn't take the picture too much when interpreting a spells. Yes, if you carpet and then knock the opponent off their feet they might be stuck flat. The spell states you can target a person - and if you were covered in glue it is likely that your arms would eventually get stuck to your sides but the spell doesn't force that to happen. As I say being able to reshape the 10' x 20'; most GMs will only allow simple changes - like 5' x 40'; 14' x 14' or just choose 8 connected 5' squares.

So quite a bit depends on your GM. There is a nice plant entangle spell in one of the rifters which is nice because it *can* silence them as well.

[darthauthor]

COOL!

[jaymz]

Seems you are missing non Rifts spells like Immobilize from HU GM Guide ( ? )