The GMP Battloid uses the Triton Battloid's Gunpod

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Thanks to the publication of the Southern Cross Visual Archive, its now identifiable that the GMP Garm/Golem (as shown in Half Moon) uses the Triton Battloid's gunpod (seen in the closing animation of every episode of Robotech). The version carried by the Garm appears to be a carbine of the beam rifle (one of the consistency problems that does on occasion crop up). Of course, the problem is that the doofuses at Udon, instead of (I dunno) asking someone who KNOWS the material went with whatever stupid drek Tommy Yune sent them, half of which was wrong. They managed to misidentify a LOT of stuff, one of which was (in fact) the Triton's gunpod. I mean, sadly its par for the course as they also stupidly said the Triton was a Powered Armor when that was shown REPEATEDLY to not be the case since its the same height as the Garm, Salamander and Spartas. If you have the Visual Archive, it was misidentified as the Cosmic Unit's blaster.

[ShadowLogan]

I mean, sadly its par for the course as they also stupidly said the Triton was a Powered Armor when that was shown REPEATEDLY to not be the case since its the same height as the Garm, Salamander and Spartas

Do they list actual dimensions and other spec type info in this source?

I think it might be worth considering how Robotech (or HG) determines if something is classified as Power Armor or a Regular Mecha for the human factions (likely alien to, but they could have different criteria). Is it strictly a size thing (as Palladium does, where anything taller than like ~2x the height of the intended operator is considered power armor*) or is it purely based on the control setup.

Dana simplifies the operational control setup of the Bioroid as being like power amplified body armor. So would the Bioroid be considered a type of "power armor" due to the control interface or a type of "battloid" due to its size? We know the ASC has "power amplified body armor" per the show, but nothing is actually identified as such via dialogue (which would be a lot harder to change than background data on what is X).

*OSM SPECULTION* Given that the Zor in SDC:SC are humans from a previous colony attempt, it is possible the Bioroids are derived from PABA since they are former human colonists that where sent back in time (IIRC). *OSM SPECULATION /END*. This doesn't work for RT directly (Bioroids can't be derived from human battloid designs), but it is possible that some ASC battloids are using a PABA control setup classifying them as Power Armor even though they look like regular nt-battloids on the outside.

*Note I am aware that Palladium's standard is based on a specific height requirement. However there are examples of Power Armor in Rifts that exceed the height and examples that due to anatomy should really be robot/battloids, but when you look at it in relation to pilot vs unit's height, IINM it works out to something like ~2x the operator height due to the exception examples.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Is it strictly a size thing (as Palladium does, where anything taller than like ~2x the height of the intended operator is considered power armor*) or is it purely based on the control setup.

If we take it from the examples presented in the series, then its purely about controls. The Bioroid literally acts like an extension of its operator's muscle system. The Cyclone Rider IS the operator. The same would be true (given its dimensions, and especially the legs) of the Kraken Dive Armor. As for the larger Fenris/Manticore, it would likely be akin to the Queadlunn-Rau & Nousjadeul-Ger Battlesuits and less like Power Amplified Body Armor. That is the operator would sit in an armored cocoon in the chest that occupies most of the mecha's frame while the arms/legs are totally mechanical, so a halfway step.

Anyway, given the size of the Triton AND the fact there is no control system remotely similar to the Bioroid's, its got to be a Battloid. It would operate no different than a Veritech in battloid mode, meaning most of the movements are probably pre-programmed computer 'macros' based on any number of actions (which may indicate an intuitive AI-like setup which learns from its operator's actions).

[glitterboy2098]

i like to use the AMP suit from Avatar as my example of why they can be power armor. or the armslaves from full metal panic. power armor does not have to have the pilot's limbs within the suit, it just needs the movement of suit to be following the movement of the pilot. having the pilot in a force feedback harness in the chest, with the suit reading the movement of the pilot's limbs and then replicating that (possibly with some amplification so the pilot doesn't have to move their limbs quite as much, which also allows for the suit to have range of motion lacking in the human body, or a less perfectly humanoid shape) still makes it a powered armor, compared ot the airplane like controls of other mecha. the skills of piloting the smaller "ironman" like suits would still apply to the bigger styles as well.

and the bioroids would still be unique since they use a nerve reading system (brain reading, in practice) connection, rather than a gross movement reading system. which is a very different sort of technology.

[xunk16]

[...] having the pilot in a force feedback harness in the chest, with the suit reading the movement of the pilot's limbs and then replicating that [...] still makes it a powered armor, compared to the airplane like controls of other mecha. the skills of piloting the smaller "ironman" like suits would still apply to the bigger styles as well.

Somehow, it make sense, but my brain is fighting to call the mechs from Robot Jox powered armours. I'd say the "armour" parts should maybe remain under the bar where it would still be useful as part of an infantry unit and not necessarily a mechanized infantry unit or battle station just based on the control scheme. As in, if it is big enough so that the whole move is "fly by wire" and not in scale enough, or close to the body enough, to give a believable sense of proprioception, then maybe it should still be considered a weapon platform and not an armour.

But otherwise, the piloting distinction is perfectly sound.

[glitterboy2098]

[...] having the pilot in a force feedback harness in the chest, with the suit reading the movement of the pilot's limbs and then replicating that [...] still makes it a powered armor, compared to the airplane like controls of other mecha. the skills of piloting the smaller "ironman" like suits would still apply to the bigger styles as well.

Somehow, it make sense, but my brain is fighting to call the mechs from Robot Jox powered armours. I'd say the "armour" parts should maybe remain under the bar where it would still be useful as part of an infantry unit and not necessarily a mechanized infantry unit or battle station just based on the control scheme. As in, if it is big enough so that the whole move is "fly by wire" and not in scale enough, or close to the body enough, to give a believable sense of proprioception, then maybe it should still be considered a weapon platform and not an armour.

But otherwise, the piloting distinction is perfectly sound.

that's fair. i agree that size should definitely be a factor.. robot jox, the gundams from G-Gundam, and so on should probably not be classes as PA even if the use the control style of one. (the jeagers from pacific rim are an interesting odditity no matter what, given their mix of forcefeedback harness AND brain-machine interfacing, not to mention their almost absurdly massive size.)

as it is, i don;t think that his 'dsicovery' conflicts with the RPG's sizes..the Golem robot is 16ft to the Triton's 11.4, so the two sharing a gunpod wouldn't be all that odd.. what would be a rifle on the Triton would just be an SMG on the Golem. or in the case of the golem robot's art.. the golem's pistol would be an SMG for the triton.

personally,. i've decided to allow ASC power armors able to carry the Basilisk PA's .50cal MG gunpod, since none of the others have their own, and their size means using the infantry weapons, while possible, would probably require special adaptions to handle the larger hands. letting them use the Golem's 40mm grenade launcher gunpod would allow for some variety. though some might not, given they already have 40mm grenade launchers built in.

(one of my favorite things to give the local military forces of the various UEG member nations are "lend-lease" Unicorn PA's with the Basilisk's gunpod. if you ignore the limit to non-lethals on the 40mm grenade launcher built in (which given it is the same launcher used in other suits that do have explosive grenades, pretty much has to be doctrinal for the ASC rather than hardware) you get a fairly flexible, if a bit weak, combat mecha good for dealing with bandits, insurgents, and the less well equipped renegade zents. anything more dangerous would be the purview of the UEDF or ASC forces assigned to the region anyway, and the lend-lease PA's would still be a viable speedbump while veritechs and destroids/battloids deploy.)

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

as it is, i don;t think that his 'dsicovery' conflicts with the RPG's sizes..the Golem robot is 16ft to the Triton's 11.4, so the two sharing a gunpod wouldn't be all that odd.. what would be a rifle on the Triton would just be an SMG on the Golem. or in the case of the golem robot's art.. the golem's pistol would be an SMG for the triton.

Except for the fact we know exactly how tall the Triton is since its in the closing animation of every episode and its clearly the same height range as the Garm and Salamander Battloids as well as the Spartas Hovertank in Battloid. That's a range from 6 to 7m tall. The GMP Golem is certainly shown to be shorter in False Start because its not the piloted version.

[ShadowLogan]

as it is, i don;t think that his 'dsicovery' conflicts with the RPG's sizes..the Golem robot is 16ft to the Triton's 11.4, so the two sharing a gunpod wouldn't be all that odd.. what would be a rifle on the Triton would just be an SMG on the Golem. or in the case of the golem robot's art.. the golem's pistol would be an SMG for the triton.

Except for the fact we know exactly how tall the Triton is since its in the closing animation of every episode and its clearly the same height range as the Garm and Salamander Battloids as well as the Spartas Hovertank in Battloid. That's a range from 6 to 7m tall. The GMP Golem is certainly shown to be shorter in False Start because its not the piloted version.

If I'm following correctly, the Garm is a scaled-up visual clone of the Golem?

If that is the case, then it could also indicate that the ASC, for whatever reason, operates visual "scaled" variants of the its nt-battloids based on the animation and not all of these scaled variants have been seen, though suggested in one way or another (dialogue indicates we have power armor). Those scaled variants would be full-size piloted, drone piloted (sub-scaled?), and sub-scaled piloted (ie Power Armor). Now I'm not saying every unit comes in all 3 "flavors", but just the potential exists.