Can a non mage gain a familair by scroll?

[darthauthor]

Can a non magic user or intuitive magic user gain a familair by scroll or amulet ?

[Soldier of Od]

Yes, I think so. If you read a scroll you are essentially casting a spell. I have used this device multiple times in the past as a way to get or give a character a familiar.

[ShadowLogan]

Scroll possibly. I think it depends if you can do a Ritual via a Scroll, and if "Familiar Link" would be considered a spell or a ritual (usually the difference is called out when it can only be done as a Ritual).

Amulet, I think you mean talisman. Quite clearly a big No. First there is the fact talismans can only accept upto Level 8 Spells, not rituals, which would rule out "Familiar Link" as it is Level 9 even before one gets into the is it a spell or ritual.

Amulets as described in the Wizard Invocation List. No, that is not an option. There might be something like it an a different branch of magic, but I don't know of any. You could do a GM creation of course.

[Library Ogre]

Scroll, yes. Talisman, no (level limits, and being able to cast it 3 times would just be weird).

[drewkitty ~..~]

Can a non magic user or intuitive magic user gain a familiar by scroll or amulet ?

By scroll? If they can read the language the scroll is written in, yes.
By Amulet? Depends if it is an amulet by the Create Amulet common magic spell...No...Or a magic item closely related to a Talisman, then...Yes.

By Talisman...Yes.
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Scroll, yes. Talisman, no (level limits, and being able to cast it 3 times would just be weird).

The Talisman spell only says that three charges of a spell 'can be stored' in the Tm. Not that it Has To Have three charges in it when created.

Besides, if there is a Tm of FL then is is most likely a Mage that sells pets to become familiars. And he/she has a source that has the Tm spell and is able to (re)charge the Tm with FL.

[ShadowLogan]

Can a non magic user or intuitive magic user gain a familiar by scroll or amulet ?

By scroll? If they can read the language the scroll is written in, yes.
By Amulet? Depends if it is an amulet by the Create Amulet common magic spell...No...Or a magic item closely related to a Talisman, then...Yes.

By Talisman...Yes.
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Scroll, yes. Talisman, no (level limits, and being able to cast it 3 times would just be weird).

The Talisman spell only says that three charges of a spell 'can be stored' in the Tm. Not that it Has To Have three charges in it when created.

Besides, if there is a Tm of FL then is is most likely a Mage that sells pets to become familiars. And he/she has a source that has the Tm spell and is able to (re)charge the Tm with FL.

The Talisman Spell is specifically restricted to Spells that are Level 8 or lower, Familiar Link is a Level 9 spell. And I checked PF2E, Rifts-RMB, RIfts BoM, Rifts-UE (technically Talisman Spell is not present), and HU2E (technically Familiar Link is not present) and they all agreed on Level and restrictions for the spells in question (except when a Spell wasn't present in a source).

So no, you can not use Talisman Spell to "bank" a "Familiar Link" spell.

[Library Ogre]

For the most part, talismans are inferior to scrolls. Creating a scroll is faster and cheaper in PPE, and able to handle more powerful magics.

A talisman is only better in
1) It can be recharged cheaper than a scroll can be made. A Talisman costs 500 PPE to create, which creates 3 charges. A scroll, to create, is 100 + cost, so a Talisman is more expensive, initially, than any 8th level spell. Sickness is 50 PPE, and the most expensive; a Talisman of that is still 500 PPE, but at (100 + 50)*3, you can make 3 scrolls for slightly cheaper than a talisman. However, when you want a fourth charge of Sickness, you either need to spend 100 to recharge the Talisman (total 600), or 150 to make a new scroll (total 600). So, Talismans become cheaper only after the 5th charge.
If you go with a less expensive spell, the talisman "earns out" even later... Armor of Ithan is 500 + 60 per charge more than 4, while Scrolls would be 110 per "charge"...

Talisman, 4 charges: 560
Scroll, 4 charges: 440
T5: 620
S5: 550
T6: 680
S6: 660
T7: 740
S7: 770

2) It can be used by people who cannot read.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The Talisman Spell is specifically restricted to Spells that are Level 8 or lower, Familiar Link is a Level 9 spell. And I checked PF2E, Rifts-RMB, RIfts BoM, Rifts-UE (technically Talisman Spell is not present), and HU2E (technically Familiar Link is not present) and they all agreed on Level and restrictions for the spells in question (except when a Spell wasn't present in a source).

So no, you can not use Talisman Spell to "bank" a "Familiar Link" spell.

Sorry, I had not checked the level for the FL spell.
However, I stand by everything else I said because spell scrolls are not linked to level exceptions & Magic items tend to break spell magic limitations.
It was only the TM answer and the very last paragraph where there is a Level restriction that is being retracted.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip...
However, when you want a fourth charge of Sickness, you either need to spend 100 to recharge the Talisman (total 600), or 150 to make a new scroll (total 600).
...snip.

This is incorrect.
To recharge a Talisman takes 50 PPE + Spell PPE to recharge on charge of a Talisman.
So using the example spell...it would cost 100 (50 + 50) PPE.
This is explained in the text of the spell. (PF RPG 2nd ed page 215 for what canon text I'm referencing.)

[Library Ogre]

snip...
However, when you want a fourth charge of Sickness, you either need to spend 100 to recharge the Talisman (total 600), or 150 to make a new scroll (total 600).
...snip.

This is incorrect.
To recharge a Talisman takes 50 PPE + Spell PPE to recharge on charge of a Talisman.
So using the example spell...it would cost 150 (50 + 100) PPE.
This is explained in the text of the spell. (PF RPG 2nd ed page 215 for what canon text I'm referencing.)

Sickness has a PPE cost of 50. This is explained on page 205. So, using the example spell that I name several times, and you include the name of in your quote of me, it would cost 100 (50+50).

I chose Sickness because
a) it is in the level range
b) using a non-Familiar Link spell, with a lower cost, would illustrate that the lower cost makes it slower to "earn out". Armor of Ithan provides a similar example that, in most cases, Talisman is worse than Create Magic Scroll.

[drewkitty ~..~]

math corrected

[Curbludgeon]

I took a look at all the examples of the Familiar Link spell which came to mind (RMB, RUE, NB, PFRPG, BTS) and they all start with something like "At third level, a practitioner of magic is experienced enough to mentally link with a small animal (mammal, bird or reptile)." The spell description uses phrases like "the mage" or "the sorcerer" more than "the caster." I'd say there's at least an argument that the effect would only apply to actual practitioners of magic.

That said, I like the idea of it being workable. It seems like a good use for a scroll, and even a TW item. As a fun bonus, the spell's level is under the limit for being an Eco-Wizard item. I could easily see a number of Georgia Barbarians having little animal buddies as a result of this.

[Prysus]

For the most part, talismans are inferior to scrolls. Creating a scroll is faster and cheaper in PPE, and able to handle more powerful magics.

Greetings and Salutations. As I read this post, I found myself wondering about something. I checked a few places in Palladium Fantasy Second Edition (as I know they had a section on Scrolls in addition to the spell), but didn't see an answer.

How long does it take to activate a Talisman?
How long does it take to read a scroll?

I'm not sure how the Talisman is actually activated. So I'm thinking an activation word, or touching a symbol, or by will alone. As such, it would take one action (or be a free action if being generous).

With a scroll, we have the Create Magic Scroll spell (PF2, page 211) stating: "the mage can magically make the words for casting a magic spell appear on paper as a scroll." Now, if it's the full words for casting the spell, we have casting times, and this can be a factor. That means, at fastest, a scroll would take 7 seconds/half a melee round (though in Mysteries of Magic, we could get level 1 and 2 spells done to a single action). And, of course, I'm not going to discuss the time that may be required to ready a scroll as that's rather situational (and could be at the ready).

In my games, I usually just had scrolls read in a single action, but this thread did make me wonder if scrolls might be slower than a talisman in casting. Anyways, this was more of a thought exercise than a criticism. Have a great day everyone. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Killer Cyborg]

Huh.
Good question, Prysus.

[eliakon]

There is an NPC (I want to say a ranger) in one of the books that has a familiar that they had bonded if I recall correctly to them so I would say "yes you can"

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is the High risk option: using 'The Cards of Fate' from the rifters. It has a card that gives the drawer a familiar.

[Glistam]

I think there is someone in the reprinted Federation of Magic Book (the one without the spells) who does this for folks.