Barsoom and Rifts

[EltonRobb]

This came up on the Pinnacle Entertainment Group forums. Having my wife's character be from a Barsoom-like culture (A Princess of Mars; in the public domain I might add.) Since we are playing in the New West, there's lots of places to put one. The nominal setting is in Utah, so my wiki is handy. Anyway, she wants a culture that is also based on Lothlórien. I think I can successfully blend the two. Of course, I'm open to suggestions.

[glitterboy2098]

does it have to be on rifts earth? something like barsoom would be ideally suited for being another dimension.

as for lothlorien.. England would probably be your best bet. you have the millennium trees to fill the role of Caras Galadhon, and elves are supposed to be fairly common in europe.

[taalismn]

Fond as I am of ERB's Barsoom, and as much as the Barsoomians pride themselves on being a world at war, I have to opine that they'd get -slaughtered- on Rifts Earth, at least until they made a few changes.
As fun as implied Barsoomian near-nudity is, getting armor is a very good idea on Rifts Earth...or some magical, psionic, or super-science means of providing protection, like Amulets of Protection, or Potions of Armor. Or make the pseudo-Barsoomians natural megadamage beings. Having the breechclout-wearing swordsman shrug off laser bolts while carving up armored bandits with his sword-of-carving should freak out people.
-Lose the Barsoomian code of combat; easy enough to do since the 'don't strike anybody with any weapon more powerful than what you're attacked with' was one very easily and readily ignored as the Barsoomies slaughtered each other by the thousands. About the only time the codes of war really came into play was when our heroes would realize that an all-out application of Barsoomian super-science to warfare would seriously risk all-out war, and they destroyed the WMD/super-device. Or else make the codes of combat a thing, like alignments, that the characters are always running into and getting tripped up with; do you act like a true Son/Daughter of Bolognium and behave with chivalry and honor while the alien cads stomp all over you, or do you disgrace your noble upbringings and fight dirty like the nastiest three-legged rat in the slime pits of Affluvium?

I'll try to expand on this, but dang, it's getting late.....

[Curbludgeon]

It looks like 18ish months ago I recommended to the OP a possible Rifts take on Pando, which I could see being hammered into either suggested setting inspiration. While many in New Deseret live underground, it's basically a forest society in decline whose members sacrifice timelessness so as to reproduce and generally interact with the world. One could strip out what little reference there was in the Pando post to LDS and work in more Barsoomian codes of conduct. A nod to the racial components and secret societies in the Burroughs could be handled via things like interactions with the Keepers of the Desert, the Pando post's suggestion of partnership with Dimensional Ghouls, and perhaps the creation within the Astral of a less obviously human-derived 6 armed species.

[EltonRobb]

It looks like 18ish months ago I recommended to the OP a possible Rifts take on Pando, which I could see being hammered into either suggested setting inspiration. While many in New Deseret live underground, it's basically a forest society in decline whose members sacrifice timelessness so as to reproduce and generally interact with the world. One could strip out what little reference there was in the Pando post to LDS and work in more Barsoomian codes of conduct. A nod to the racial components and secret societies in the Burroughs could be handled via things like interactions with the Keepers of the Desert, the Pando post's suggestion of partnership with Dimensional Ghouls, and perhaps the creation within the Astral of a less obviously human-derived 6 armed species.

I took a look at your take on Pando for the Salt Lake City area thread. I find it imaginable, but I'm not setting the game in Salt Lake City. I could, to tell the truth (I live in the Salt Lake valley). And I like the wild ideas you came up with. A lot of people are giving me ideas. I cross posted this on PEG forums, and they have some interesting takes as well. I'm setting the game a little more south -- in and about Manti city (or just Manti).

My wife wants the game to be based in Sanpete County. We may visit Salt Lake City during the campaign, though. So, I'll take a look at your ideas more closely, Curbludgeon.

[EltonRobb]

does it have to be on rifts earth? something like barsoom would be ideally suited for being another dimension.

as for lothlorien.. England would probably be your best bet. you have the millennium trees to fill the role of Caras Galadhon, and elves are supposed to be fairly common in europe.

Technically, no. But thematically, yes. My wife wants to play a nude elf cowgirl set in the New West. Although it could be another dimension, it's my wife's first time playing Rifts, so it's best that it's set on Rifts Earth.

Yes, elves are common in Europe. But North America is big enough for a small kingdom of elves.

[Curbludgeon]

So the character is closest to a Red Martian, then. That was something I meant to ask.
If they're going to be running around near nude then their Toughness is going to need to be dialed up, to +5 or more. I'd consider also adapting the Talisman of Armor from the Altara Warrior Women (Atlantis and the Demon Seas pg50), and just make it some retconned part of Barsoomian science.

[ShadowLogan]

does it have to be on rifts earth? something like barsoom would be ideally suited for being another dimension.

as for lothlorien.. England would probably be your best bet. you have the millennium trees to fill the role of Caras Galadhon, and elves are supposed to be fairly common in europe.

Technically, no. But thematically, yes. My wife wants to play a nude elf cowgirl set in the New West. Although it could be another dimension, it's my wife's first time playing Rifts, so it's best that it's set on Rifts Earth.

Yes, elves are common in Europe. But North America is big enough for a small kingdom of elves.

There is a kingdom of Elves in SA1 (off hand I forget if Jungle Elves are MDC).

Ways to address the MDC issue brought up by others:
-select Star Elves (DB3) as a race
- there is also the possibility of an Elf-Like race that you could create (using Phaseworld books) that is also MDC,
-Force Field Tech is also a thing on several races (the spidermen in WB30 and Vernulians in WB1o/WB30 to name two) other than the Naruni so having another race/group using similar tech is certainly feasible.
-Escaped Tattoo (wo)Man (Atlantis) might also fit the bill (enough m-tats and you become MDC, elves are one of the few that can acquire the magic, and given the nature of tat activation could require skimpy attire) with the right skill selections (even if you have to fudge skill availability to get the right theme of cowgirl).
-CyberHumanoid (Bionics SB) with the right cosmetics could construct an Elf appearance (or reconstruct if a natural elf) would provide MDC, skill selections might need some fudging (off hand I don't recall)

[taalismn]

So the character is closest to a Red Martian, then. That was something I meant to ask.
If they're going to be running around near nude then their Toughness is going to need to be dialed up, to +5 or more. I'd consider also adapting the Talisman of Armor from the Altara Warrior Women (Atlantis and the Demon Seas pg50), and just make it some retconned part of Barsoomian science.

Maybe linked full body jewelry that counts as a light exoskeleton too(there's some fantastic art out there of a Barssomian 'mecha', but it's more like a wide-open power armor than a personal enhancement). And some TW gemstone jewelry with spell abilities wouldn't be too far off the mark if you substitute 'superscience' with 'technowizardry'.

Hell, given how Barsoomian mad science also yielded mutant clone minions, combined with their medical technology(to quote ERB, at the hands of Martian women 'Death must take a backseat') I wouldn't put genetic engineering beyond their capabilities, so using the Eugenic Superhero tables from Powers Unlimited Two to throw in environmental traits like ability to breath thin/tainted air and super-regernation abilities would also be not beyond belief.

[EltonRobb]

There is a kingdom of Elves in SA1 (off hand I forget if Jungle Elves are MDC).

Ways to address the MDC issue brought up by others:
-select Star Elves (DB3) as a race
- there is also the possibility of an Elf-Like race that you could create (using Phaseworld books) that is also MDC,
-Force Field Tech is also a thing on several races (the spidermen in WB30 and Vernulians in WB1o/WB30 to name two) other than the Naruni so having another race/group using similar tech is certainly feasible.
-Escaped Tattoo (wo)Man (Atlantis) might also fit the bill (enough m-tats and you become MDC, elves are one of the few that can acquire the magic, and given the nature of tat activation could require skimpy attire) with the right skill selections (even if you have to fudge skill availability to get the right theme of cowgirl).
-CyberHumanoid (Bionics SB) with the right cosmetics could construct an Elf appearance (or reconstruct if a natural elf) would provide MDC, skill selections might need some fudging (off hand I don't recall)

I'll bring it up with my wife (possibly tonight, here's hoping).

[drewkitty ~..~]

I've read a few of the Baraoom novels...And I would agree that there is a presumed lack of overly clothed individuals. The cover art of the books sure does show that idea.
You could just go a, they gain power from light and having them on an earth will power them up to have MDC. A side-effect would be that they are impervious to lasers and any weapons of light.
I would look through the HU super abilities to find a model to use as example(s) to craft the powers I just suggested.

[taalismn]

You could just go a, they gain power from light and having them on an earth will power them up to have MDC..

Ah, the Krypton Red Sun dodge....

Or just heightened levels of ambient PPE.

[EltonRobb]

Maybe. I'm running Savage RIFTS for the campaign though. It's her first time playing RPGs, so I want to run Rifts with an easier game system.

[drewkitty ~..~]

You could just go a, they gain power from light and having them on an earth will power them up to have MDC..

Ah, the Krypton Red Sun dodge....

Or just heightened levels of ambient PPE.

Earth is closer to the sun than Mars/Barsoom.
And there is that part of their "tech' is based in manipulating light.

[EltonRobb]

You could just go a, they gain power from light and having them on an earth will power them up to have MDC..

Ah, the Krypton Red Sun dodge....

Or just heightened levels of ambient PPE.

Earth is closer to the sun than Mars/Barsoom.
And there is that part of their "tech' is based in manipulating light.

Manipulating the Aether?

[taalismn]

Manipulating the Aether?

The Barsoomians acknowledge extra spectra of light that have funky properties...If I recall correctly, the 'Eighth Ray' is antigravity and they can store it up in tanks on their fliers.
If you want to get technical, they could be referring obliquely to a Unified Field Theory and they're really tapping into more fundamental forces of the underlaying cosmic ylem.

[EltonRobb]

Manipulating the Aether?

The Barsoomians acknowledge extra spectra of light that have funky properties...If I recall correctly, the 'Eighth Ray' is antigravity and they can store it up in tanks on their fliers.
If you want to get technical, they could be referring obliquely to a Unified Field Theory and they're really tapping into more fundamental forces of the underlaying cosmic ylem.

Okay. Edgar Rice Burroughs was very imaginative. We can see the entire electromagnetic spectrum now, and there was nothing to indicate the extra spectra of light. But there is an Aether. I'll talk it over with my wife for building her elven community though.

[glitterboy2098]

Manipulating the Aether?

The Barsoomians acknowledge extra spectra of light that have funky properties...If I recall correctly, the 'Eighth Ray' is antigravity and they can store it up in tanks on their fliers.
If you want to get technical, they could be referring obliquely to a Unified Field Theory and they're really tapping into more fundamental forces of the underlaying cosmic ylem.

Okay. Edgar Rice Burroughs was very imaginative. We can see the entire electromagnetic spectrum now, and there was nothing to indicate the extra spectra of light. But there is an Aether. I'll talk it over with my wife for building her elven community though.

i figure it was much the same sort of thing that led Lovecraft to write "the color out of space". who on hearing that the light spectrum included 'colors' invisible to the human eye (like IR and UV), they had a "wait, that means there may be other colors humanity has never seen, what might such be capable of!" moment of creative idiocy and ran off to write a story about an evil color from space falling to earth and stealing the life energy from a farm in new england.

ERB was writing in a time [sup][1][/sup] when it was starting to be figured out that light, radio, and so on were all part of the same thing, yet *before* the Luminiferous Aether had fully been disproven in the public eye[sup][2][/sup] or replaced with a viable alternative model[sup][3][/sup]. so his understanding of how physics works was pretty weird by our standards to start. gravity being connected with light and by extension electromagnitism was a hallmark of the Aether model.

[1] ERB wrote his books in the early 1900's, with the first one being published (in serialized form) in 1912 and the last on before his death being in 1944, though several "in progress" and unsbmitted works saw print after his death in 1950. the Barsoom series was his first works, and most of the 'technical details' show up in the earliest books, as do mentions of the aether and so on. (often spelled "ether", which was a common alternate spelling of the time). so he was writing in a time when most people had been educated on an understanding of physics that worked very differently than we understand it, and which was being challenged by new discoveries about the nature of light and radiation but which hadn't gelled around the main alternative proposal yet. it is worth noting that in later books even in the barsoom series he greatly downplayed the whole "aether and ninth ray" mentions.
[2] the scientific experiments which showed it didn't exist it were done in 1887, but it wouldn't be till 1920 that the model was well and truly dead and disproven.
[3] Relativity, which in its special relativity form would be published in 1905, but wouldn't become widely accepted until 1920. and general relativity, which actually addressed the more edge case issues that had cropped up, was published in 1916 and didn't become widely accepted unti the 1960's

[grandmaster z0b]

Why not keep Barsoom the actual planet Mars but make a part of Utah dimensionally attached to it like a fade town or something?

[taalismn]

[ it is worth noting that in later books even in the barsoom series he greatly downplayed the whole "aether and ninth ray" mentions.

Didn't stop him from introducing selective disintegration rays and spacecraft shrinking to scale so the Martian moons were planet-sized relative to the characters, in the later works.

And let's just forget about. the Skeleton Men of Jupiter....

[ShadowLogan]

Why not keep Barsoom the actual planet Mars but make a part of Utah dimensionally attached to it like a fade town or something?

Because Mars in the Rifts setting has already been explored to some extent in Mutants in Orbit (terraforming and mutant bugs) and South America 2 (Arkhon backstory, some of the Arkhon invasion fleet relocated). Neither mention anything about natives, plus the conditions on Mars are pretty well established (unless the link you're suggesting is also a temporal one), which would likely just add to the difficulties to be addressed (airpressure and gravity for starters).

[Curbludgeon]

I at least don't remember, but perhaps don't believe Savage Rifts mentioning anything about Mars, so it's potentially a non-issue. That said, it's not like there aren't plenty of examples of fictional planets around Sol to work into a pastiche game via thin dimensional fabrics, rifts, or what have you. Just pulling from Burroughs*, Lovecraft, and "Klarkash-ton" (C.A. Smith) gets you
Amtor:Venus
Pellucidar:Hollow Earth
Zillikian-Counter Earth
Barsoom-Mars
Eurobus-Jupiter
Cyrkranosh-Saturn
Yaksh-Neptune
L'gx'hx-Uranus
Yuggoth-Pluto

Lumley adds Thyoph, the source of the main asteroid belt. A fictional take on Mercury could either go with a modern promenade interminable au crépuscule or an anachronistic tidally locked split culture.

As for Elven Red Martians in Savage Rifts, I'm really thinking of either refluffing one of the other SR species, or using the Supersoldier framework out of "Savaging Your Favorite Rifts Ideas." The latter is basically a MARS (perhaps a good enough reason on its own) with limited access to superpowers, which would be for things like toughness and extended lifespan.

*Edgar, but William covers a couple of planets himself, and in a way that actually gives characters stronger motivations for a Rifts game.

[EltonRobb]

I at least don't remember, but perhaps don't believe Savage Rifts mentioning anything about Mars, so it's potentially a non-issue. That said, it's not like there aren't plenty of examples of fictional planets around Sol to work into a pastiche game via thin dimensional fabrics, rifts, or what have you. Just pulling from Burroughs*, Lovecraft, and "Klarkash-ton" (C.A. Smith) gets you
Amtor:Venus
Pellucidar:Hollow Earth
Zillikian-Counter Earth
Barsoom-Mars
Eurobus-Jupiter
Cyrkranosh-Saturn
Yaksh-Neptune
L'gx'hx-Uranus
Yuggoth-Pluto

Lumley adds Thyoph, the source of the main asteroid belt. A fictional take on Mercury could either go with a modern promenade interminable au crépuscule or an anachronistic tidally locked split culture.

As for Elven Red Martians in Savage Rifts, I'm really thinking of either refluffing one of the other SR species, or using the Supersoldier framework out of "Savaging Your Favorite Rifts Ideas." The latter is basically a MARS (perhaps a good enough reason on its own) with limited access to superpowers, which would be for things like toughness and extended lifespan.

*Edgar, but William covers a couple of planets himself, and in a way that actually gives characters stronger motivations for a Rifts game.

I love the ideas coming out of this forum. You all have given me something to think about. I mean really. Keep them coming.

As for a dimensional locked piece of Utah, how about Skinwalker Ranch?

[taalismn]

Why not keep Barsoom the actual planet Mars but make a part of Utah dimensionally attached to it like a fade town or something?

Because Mars in the Rifts setting has already been explored to some extent in Mutants in Orbit (terraforming and mutant bugs) and South America 2 (Arkhon backstory, some of the Arkhon invasion fleet relocated). Neither mention anything about natives, plus the conditions on Mars are pretty well established (unless the link you're suggesting is also a temporal one), which would likely just add to the difficulties to be addressed (airpressure and gravity for starters).

I did create a Rifts Mars/Barsoom crossover that had various small Barsoomian communities forced to assume an almost Arrakis Fremen-style existence living in air-sealed caverns and raiding the green belts for food, water, and oxygen. Of course, I also had the Great Mars Canyon becoming a relative paradise, and an Invid presence fighting the Arkhons. The Barsoomians were just among other small pockets of d-bees also stranded on the planet. All described from the POV of a mage whose party had d-shifted to the Red Planet.

Fun times.