Ok, shields as weapons

[Veknironth]

Well, the consensus appears to be that shields are weapons. So, that makes me wonder are they edged weapons or blunt weapons? Or, are they both?

If edged, could you have only one edge extra sharp (either by expert craftmanship or magic?) or does the entire edge need to be sharp? Or, can you just create the shield in some irregular shape to make it such that there is only one edge?

If it's blunt, could you still make it balanced to parry better? If you put thunder hammer on it, could you activate that power when you parry something?

-Vek
"Let's cheese this out."

[Fenris2020]

Shields would be blunt, with the exception of the targe.

[kiralon]

I agree, blunt and yes with the bonuses, and you used an action to parry with thunder on it, but not with autoparry.

[Veknironth]

Well, I like the using an attack to parry to activate the thunder. But how would that work with paired weapons? If you did a simultaneous parry/attack in one attack could you use the thunder? What if you had just used a twin strike, and HAD to use an attack to parry the next incoming attack?

-Vek
"Paired weapons strikes again."

[kiralon]

Well, I like the using an attack to parry to activate the thunder. But how would that work with paired weapons? If you did a simultaneous parry/attack in one attack could you use the thunder? What if you had just used a twin strike, and HAD to use an attack to parry the next incoming attack?

-Vek
"Paired weapons strikes again."

I have activation words for my items, so i would allow the parry attack with thunder, and if i remember you cannot parry after a twin strike, only dodge.

[Library Ogre]

Generally blunt, but not WP Blunt. I'd allow some shields to be pointy (a center spike or, if you're very dumb, a bladed edge), but the default is gonna be blunt.

[Curbludgeon]

If there is/was some part of Palladia with access to early personal firearms like matchlocks, or an unarmored dueling culture, I'd want to see some usage of a lantern shield. Rule support for it can't be good enough to make it a de facto optimized choice, because even when it was popular it wasn't. I'm thinking it could be its own WP, although having both WP Knife and WP Shield, or some similar paired weapon WP, would convey the same benefit. The actual lantern would force a save to prevent being dazzled, but be unlikely to work.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Most Shields do blunt damage, even so, there is no stacking with the WP Blunt. But then there is the spiked shield and others with sharp bits. Which would have poky or blade damage aspects. Or to say it depends on how the shield in question is made/constructed. [For designing a non-standard shield get with your GM and reasurch things to design what you want.]
Still it would take the Shield WP to use a non-standard shield in its fullness.

[Library Ogre]

One thing I would include with WP Shield is a shield can always make an automatic parry, even if someone does a simultaneous strike.

[Fenris2020]

One thing I would include with WP Shield is a shield can always make an automatic parry, even if someone does a simultaneous strike.

That makes sense.

[Veknironth]

Well, I should have asked this before, but would.a shield bash from a Wolfen or ogre do an additional d6 damage?

-Vek
"Shield bash should only do 1d4."

[Grazzik]

Well, I should have asked this before, but would.a shield bash from a Wolfen or ogre do an additional d6 damage?

-Vek
"Shield bash should only do 1d4."

If the shield is oversized and not a standard-sized shield simply used by a Wolfen or Ogre...
And if damage from the shield's size is based on a standard-sized shield and not already accounted for in the shield's damage stat...
Then, yes, I'd add a d6.

If the shield had additions for bashing that are inherently larger now, such as spikes or a modified boss, I might even be so inclined as to add damage done by them too by perhaps upping the die to a d8.

[JuliusCreed]

By default, damage from a shield is blunt damage, whether you're smacking someone with the face of the shield or 'punching' someone with the edge of it. A few modifications can be done to shields to vary the damage type inflicted, such as spikes for a combination of blunt and piercing damage, much like your typical morning star, or even short blades attached to either the face or along the leading edge of the shield. Then there's curbludgeon's suggestion of using the infamous lantern shield which includes not only a spike protruding from its face but a sword-like blade jutting out along the length of your shield bearing arm out to about 2 feet beyond the shield's edge AND long spikes poking out from a built-in gauntlet. Overall, a versatile, if extremely cumbersome, (not to mention unsightly) weapon. In the end however, WP shield applies to all of them when they are used in combat, regardless of any modifications/additions to the shield's initial damage type.

Since a shield is considered a weapon, I see no reason why it can't be modified like any other weapon, granting it bonuses to parry in combat. And with the addition of spikes and such, why not add a damage bonus as well? PFRPG pgs 271-272 (Superior Weapons) gives a pretty solid guideline on what kind of bonuses you could give a shield. Obviously, one would go to the Blunt weapons for available bonuses, however, personally, I'd replace the +1 to Parry and Strike bonus with a +4 to Parry bonus. Or maybe add a +4 Parry bonus for the same price as a +1 Strike/Parry bonus. Either way, you get a better shield, for a price. And yes, any magical weapon enchantments you can think of that go on weapons can go on shields as well.

Your thoughts on the Thunder Hammer Shield are interesting. As written, Thunder Hammer "inflicts an extra 2d6 damage and lets out a booming thunderclap each time it strikes or is struck". My interpretation... A Strike with a Thunder Hammer shield will inflict normal shield damage plus 2d6 and bring the thunder. A Parry with a Thunder Hammer shield does not inflict any damage, including the extra 2d6 because Parrying doesn't inflict any damage in the first place. (*One notable exception is the Power Block/Parry from a few of the MA forms in N&S pg 128, but not really gonna get into that just yet*) However, since the shield was struck, the Thunder still goes off with whatever spectacular effects that you or your GM can dream up, i.e. enemies freaking out and running away, more enemies come rushing in since you just gave away your position, everybody close by goes a little deaf and so on and so forth. The only snag in the whole mix is that the Thunder Hammer enchantment ALSO states it is "Applicable ONLY to blunt weapons, excluding ball and chain types". Now, we've already determined that a shield does indeed inflict blunt/bludgeoning damage, BUT it is essentially NOT a blunt weapon, at least as far as weapon proficiencies are concerned. By this reasoning, one could NOT enchant a shield with a Thunder Hammer enchantment to begin with according to the rules.
But then, as we're all so very fond of saying... They're more a set of guidelines than actual rules.

Good luck and great gaming!

[Hotrod]

What about throwing? Could "returns when thrown" apply? Also, since Vek asked for cheese,

When Captain Veknironth throws his mighty shield
Do those who chose to oppose his shield must yield?

[ShadowLogan]

What about throwing? Could "returns when thrown" apply? Also, since Vek asked for cheese,

When Captain Veknironth throws his mighty shield
Do those who chose to oppose his shield must yield?

Technically I would say yes you can use "returns when thrown" for simplicity, but not all shield types can be thrown (per RAW in the WP: Shield description pg60 in PF2E). However, for shields that CANNOT be thrown I would use it as a "cheap" version of "Teleport to Wielder" since the return feature is activated via mental command (per text, IINM RWT flies back to the user where TTW does so via teleport). There might be other ways that the "returns when thrown" magic could also be used/modified in terms of applications (ex. the magic via mental command improves parry "speed" OR hands-free parrying) though I would limit it to just one useable application (so you can't do the regular "return when thrown" and then also use it for any of the other examples I gave) and no use of multiple slots to get around.

[Library Ogre]

What about throwing? Could "returns when thrown" apply? Also, since Vek asked for cheese,

When Captain Veknironth throws his mighty shield
Do those who chose to oppose his shield must yield?

Absolutely.


I have not watched that video all the way through. It was just the shortest.