Shadow Beasts

[darthauthor]

When a Summoned Shadow Beast is killed:

Does it have remains or do they disappear like a Demon / Deevil?

IF there are remains, can a necromancer use the material of the corpse for "Union with the Dead" or some of the other spells in their school of magic?

[Library Ogre]

I believe, as summoned creatures, they leave no corpse; you have to get a little bit more creative to have shadow beast body parts.

[ShadowLogan]

It may come down to the method used to Summon the Shadow Beast (there is also a "relative" from the same dimension that might help but at the moment I can't recall its name/where to look).

The Wizard Invocation List "Summon Shadow Beast" (Level 10, Rifts BoM pg136-7) has no "true" duration. Combat duration is based on when the creature breaks free (per text) and could stay or return home (per text). Non-combat duration is until the mission is completed or slain (per text). The way it is worded points to it returning to its home dimension when slain, HOWEVER the bolded Note at the end of the description indicates there might be a 15% chance it would remain in this dimension (in an alive state, but it could be used as the basis for a house rule for remaining after slain).

A Shifter (Rifts) nothing really limits how long the summoned being stays as it's done via dimensional portal (IINM). PF's Summoner OCC using Circle magic is essentially the same.

[darthauthor]

Do Shadow Beast have the power to return to their native shadow dimension at will?

Can a Ley Line Rifter hitch a ride with their special ability off a killed shadow beast?

Do Shadow Beasts want to go back like Elementals?

[Grazzik]

Do Shadow Beast have the power to return to their native shadow dimension at will?

No such ability is listed in the BoM spell description or DB15. They may be free to return and may want to, but how they get there is not explained. There may be a PFRPG version that does have an ability but I haven't looked it up. Maybe someone like Prysus knows off the top of their head...

Can a Ley Line Rifter hitch a ride with their special ability off a killed shadow beast?

This is a house rule and, as the aptly named ShadowLogan (who may or may not be a Shadow Lord) rightly pointed out, the GM needs to interpret and make a determination as to what is going on. There is no explicit explanation of what happens when a shadow beast dies. Therefore, it is up to the GM to rule on this. As a GM, I would expect a Shadow Beast to dissipate into a shadowy nothingness and not be pulled back to a given dimension, as they are not demons or dyvals and have no home dimension for the species as a whole - they are denizens of the multiverse's many shadow dimensions (DB15 pg 214) and each Shadow Beast may return a different distinct shadow dimension that they may see as their "home".

Do Shadow Beasts want to go back like Elementals?

No, as they are not Elementals. They are described as "beasts" or "denizens". Instead they act as Shadow Beasts should. See DB15 pg 214 for a write up on Shadow Beasts in the Plane of Shadows / Shadow Dimensions. BoM spell write up also explains what motivates the Shadow Beast.

Side Note: I would not jump to the conclusion that the Plane of Shadows is a variation of an Elemental Plane, as the concept of a "Plane" in dimensional constructs varies in usage across PB books. Re elemental planes, they are described in books such as DB7 using the same terms as a flat dimension. While the Plane of Shadows is described in DB 15 more like a phase shift of the multiverse where each dimension has a corresponding shadow dimension. This is an example of why rules lawyers with narrow definitions that get hung up on specific words find themselves in trouble with other players/GMs... common sense, creativity and a broader interpretation in context of the game should be the basis of rules interpretation.

[ShadowLogan]

It is unclear if it's a natural ability or some delayed result of the spell for the Invocation, nor is it clear if they want to go back like Elementals (I want to say it leans they don't given the text).

I did some digging for the Shadow Beast relative I mentioned previously. It is called the Shadow Stalker (Rifts Conversion Book 1 Revised page175-6, more info might exist in a PF book somewhere) and it starts with "is a native of the same shadowy dimension where Shadow Beasts originate" and later "are humanoid-shaped entities from the Dimension of Shadows." Later under the physical appearance section it mentions they "are tall, muscular humanoids composed of pure shadow energy." No where are they granted dimensional spanning abilities.

Now as the S-Stalker and S-Beast are from the same dimension (off hand I don't know if other denizens exist from this dimension to further build upon), which means the Stalker might help fill in questions about the Beast. For example, the Stalkers are energy beings, which likely holds true for the Beast and if so, would mean there are no remains for a necromancer to use. As mentioned previously they don't seem to have native abilities for dimensional travel (unless it is hidden in the Shadow Magic the Stalker's practice described in PF's LoB that I don't have), which could apply to both.

Edit: DB15 (Secrets of the Atlanteans) is not part of my library at this time. Though how its Shadow Magic compares to the PF title I could not say (and the same may also apply to the Crystal Magic which is found in another PF title)

[Grazzik]

Edit: DB15 (Secrets of the Atlanteans) is not part of my library at this time. Though how its Shadow Magic compares to the PF title I could not say (and the same may also apply to the Crystal Magic which is found in another PF title)

No worries, DB15 has it's pros and cons, but a notable pro is that it outlines the various shadow denizens - two of which (Shadow Lords and Shadow Wraiths) can cast shadow magic that includes spells that open portals to shadow dimensions. Shadow Beasts are specifically described as having no magic knowledge, so while a summoned Shadow Lord or Wraith may return to their dimension via a portal bringing with them their Shadow Beast minions, Beasts summoned by themselves may be trapped unless they have access to an active rift, an appropriate magical artifact, a summoner forced to return them, etc.

[darthauthor]

Many things can go on during a game.

Many players, myself included, make up characters specifically to use special abilities because we want to use those abiliites.
It gets frustrating when the occasion arrises and we don't get to use them.
Sometimes the GM or players wants the rule of cool
Sometims the GM allows this.
Sometimes it gets abused or unbalances the game in a way that is beyond common sense or in any way a reasonable person can suspend their disbelief about.

Being a Star Wars fan the first thing to come to mind is the Holdo Maneuver.
IF you can, with a well-timed hyperspace jump, ram another ship, then why
hasn't anybody been doing this all along?
The empire has plenty of ships, is not shy about killing or sending men to their deaths, also they
have droids to pilot, would use hyperspace ship ramming instead of a Death Star. In short, the
Empire could have and would have used what the player did over and over again from the beginning.
The enemy would have known about it as an attack tactic and either had a defense against it
or already used it as an attack,
Bad story telling, in my opinion,

Still, about Shadow Beasts, you have outlined some options:

Shadow Beasts from different dimensions could have different abilities or properties about them.

So if the GM wants the Shadow Beasts can, leave a corpse behind or dimensional travel
back to their home world.

For my beliefs, then, the only issues is deciding which kind of shadow beast it is and
being consistent about it.

That gets into the tricky part.
Some players, myself included, feel the GM is playing against us when adversaries and villain
turn out to spontaniously have bioinics, psionics, be shapeshifters or even baby dragons.
Then we ask the GM, if they were always that, then why didn't they (the villains) use their
abilites to begin with and beat me or so and so or achieve their goal in the given encounter.

Because the GM made it up on the spot. Winged it, to keep the game going and to foil the players.
For me it takes away the emersion and engagement in the game. Takes me out of it and makes me
realize how artificial it all is and how my player characters decisions don't matter if the GM can and
does giving some players and villains the win and takes it away from others just to serve their mood
or their campaign.
During and afterwards I feel like I've just played a coin toss game (Heads or Tails) with someone who
said, "Heads I win, Tails you lose," so it didn't matter what I rolled or tactic I used, I was already going
win or lose because, GM.
And if that is the way it is going to be, why roll dice?
Just ask your GM what they want you to say and do.
We are only actors on their stage and the GM's the script writer and director
Stick to the lines of the script please; no improvisatin; no changing the script.
You are not the author of your own story only the actor

OF course, mistakes can be made and I'd rather be in a game where they are, than
stuck in one where I'm not and can't play or role play but have to dice roll against the
GM like it was a loaded game of Heads or Tails.

[darthauthor]

Another question:

Putting together the fight with the Shadow Beasts

Combat bonus list
+4 to parry
+4 to dodge

Do they get to include the bonuses from a P.P. of 24: That +5 to parry and dodge.

These beasts will be BEASTS if I do!
with
+9 to parry

Follow up:
Shadow Beasts parry (at night)
Can they parry vibro blades are does that still cut their arm off?

Verify:
S.D.C. damage from: Bone, Silver, and Wood do them no harm. They a NOT Demons or Vampires.

Will a "Blinding Flash" get double penalities or duration?
Or have when they are back in darkness because of their regeration at 2d6 per round?

Does "Lantern Light" or "Globe of Daylight" or even just a bunch of light from man made lights convert them to their "Abilities in Light" wearker version of themselves?

On their ability to see and hear and smell things:

Are they as likely to fall into a trap as anyone else?

In the past I have reward players for forethought and planning so it is easy to see this as a Preditor thing and the players as "Dutch" (Arnold Schwarzenegger). So how good are Shadow Beasts at spotting traps? Land mines?

Also, nothing I have read says that Shadow Beast can see the invisible.
So IF the players does that after the fight it will be the Blind vs the Blind (-10), unless the Shadow Beast has powers of smell.

While "Cloud of Smoke" or a smoke grenade will, I assume, blind everyone inside of it?

"Cloak of Darkness" spell. Does it make it so the Shadow Beast can't see the players inside it?
And if the beast enters it (in darkness) will the players be able to see the Shadow Beast?

Seems like one of the only times the players would use the spell "Light Target."
Just don't know the mind of a Shadow Beast and what would happen if they fail their save and are light up?
Does it mean their abilities are REDUCED to those they have in Day Light?
Because that would be a MAJOR De-Buff. Real table turning game changer during a fight.
I foresee my players asking if "Light Target" does anything more than make it so they can see the Shadow Beasts.

Do those with cybernetic Amplified hearing get a bonus / reduced penality to hit them?

What about a Dog Boy ability to smell / senes them shooting ?

Will "Sense Evil" reduce their penalities to shoot or melee strike a Shadow Beast in night?
Speaking for myself, I do feel it would narrow down the where the Shadow Beast could be. So no sneaking up on the player from behind. More than that, i don't know.

[darthauthor]

Answering my own questions for myself:

Do they get to include the bonuses from a P.P. of 24: That +5 to parry and dodge.
IF I made my own decision I will recognize the Shadow Beasts like player characters and give them the P.P. bonus; so +9 to dodge and parry.

Does a shadow beast get hurt if they parry an Mega damage blade with their arm?
Yes. In mega damage.


S.D.C. damage from: Bone, Silver, and Wood do them no harm.

Blinding Flash" penalties: Regeneration restores their eyes in 1 round

Does "Lantern Light" or "Globe of Daylight" or even just a bunch of light from man made lights convert them to their "Abilities in Light" weaker version of themselves?

Yes
It pays to control the battle field

On their ability to see and hear and smell things:

Are they as likely to fall into a trap as anyone else?

Yes. Anyone else with an I.Q. of 70 and the identity of a predator.
Comprehension is roughly equal to a 12-15 year old.

Land mines?
Unless they have experienced them before, they don’t know about them and probably don’t think about them or dismiss them like rocks or just a scrap of metal.

When facing an invisible opponent for the first time I expect a Shadow Beast would fight or run.

While "Cloud of Smoke" or a smoke grenade will blind everyone inside who could be blinded by it.

"Cloak of Darkness" spell.
Shadow Beast can see in the dark.
Magical Darkness?
I’m going to say. Only if the spell allows those with night vision to see in magical darkness.

The Spell “Light Target” changes a Shadow Beast, for the duration of the spell to Light conditions making them super weak compared to when its night.

Cybernetic Amplified hearing:
Treat like Sense Evil or presence Sense.

What about a Dog Boys?
It is a tough call for me. I’m stuck.

Will "Sense Evil" reduce their penalties to shoot or melee strike a Shadow Beast at night?
Always know the direction they are in but not necessarily distance

[darthauthor]

How would a Shadow Beast feel about being summoned to fight the Xiticix in their underground hives?

Would they enjoy it or would they be afraid and want to jump ship as soon as they could?

[darthauthor]

What happens if the spell caster who summoned the Shadow Beast to do a job is slain before the job ends?

Is the Shadow Beast free to do as they please?

Do they pop back to the dimension of shadows?

If the caster cancels the spell do they automatically go back to the shadow dimension?

Can the caster send them back to the Shadow dimension at will?

[ShadowLogan]

How would a Shadow Beast feel about being summoned to fight the Xiticix in their underground hives?

Would they enjoy it or would they be afraid and want to jump ship as soon as they could?

They likely would enjoy it (likely up to a point) per the text "The killer is a born predator that loves to hunt and kill, so it gladly follows orders to do so." and then you have "After that, the exhilaration of combat enables the creature to break free of the mage's control and either return to its home dimension or stay in ours (if it is having fun, it may even continue to fight)."

What happens if the spell caster who summoned the Shadow Beast to do a job is slain before the job ends?

Is the Shadow Beast free to do as they please?

Do they pop back to the dimension of shadows?

If the caster cancels the spell do they automatically go back to the shadow dimension?

Can the caster send them back to the Shadow dimension at will?

I'd say they are still compelled to follow orders as normal. If the spell is canceled early I would think they would go back to their home dimension.

On a side note, you might want to look at the Shadow Stalker from RCB1r for possible plot/story use if players are using Shadow Beasts.

No worries, DB15 has it's pros and cons,

I don't have any really. Palladium's Rifts line is large (what over 60 books IINM) which may include titles that don't interest a non-completionist like myself (most Rifts books I get I had an eye for dual use for Robotech).