REF Reinforcements to Earth in Mind Games

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

I have a working theory about Transport Squadron 85 that only recently occurred to me. The dialogue always seemed a little funky in regards to what I can only assume is the Task Force position numbers for the ships. The relevant dialogue from Mind Games shows this:

MOONBASE CONTROL (aka Richard Epcar ): (Radio filter) Cleared from pre-ignition and lift off. Opening outer launch chute doors. You are under way T-377, 78, 79, and 80. . . .
TRISTAR-CLASS CRUISER COMMS: (Radio filter) Requesting squadron clearance to Earth orbit link-up point.
MOONBASE CONTROL: Roger "T" Squadron; you are now cleared to proceed to your orbit window for link up.
TRISTAR-CLASS CRUISER COMMS: (Radio filter) This is T-382 clearing launch chute.

T-377, 78 and 79 are all shown to be Binary-class Battlecruisers. T-380 is a Pulsar. T-382 is a Tristar. Establishing shots (which are used multiple times across the episode) give us a ratio of 7 ships per "Battlegroup": 1 Tristar, 2 Binaries, 4 Pulsars. The opening shots of Transport Squadron 85 arriving show 14 Nebula-class Corvette Transports and 1 Binary.

Further along in the episode, in establishing shots, it gives us an absolute minimum ship total:

3 Tristar-class Large Cruisers
4 Binary-class Battlecruisers
4 Pulsar-class Light Cruisers
14 Nebula-class Transport Corvettes

So we have 2 ratios: 7 warships: Tristar, 2 Binaries, 4 Pulsars and 14 Transport Corvettes to every 1 Binary.

Crunching the numbers, I think this may (coincidentally?) be what was plotted by Robotech's Staff Writers. The scenes in the original Southern Cross have no such dialogue associated with ARLES CONTROL and any of the ships of Task Force 3 (the designation given for the arrival of the Battlecruiser and Transports). So, I don't wanna hear none of that "tRaNsLaTiOn ErRoR' crap.

So, given the observed ratios, I think Task Force 3 (for lack of a better name), including Transport Squadron 85 is composed of 385 ships:

11 Tristar Large Cruisers
22 Binary Battlecruisers
44 Pulsar Light Cruisers
308 Nebula Transport Corvettes

Total: 385 ships

I also came up, after a little while, with an alternate set of figures, again trying to hit the mark around ~382, that reduced the number of Corvette Transports and increased the battlewagons. I had to assume we had the same ratio of Battlecruisers to Light Cruisers:

Task Force 3
- 22 Battlegroups -
22 Tristar Large Cruisers
44 Binary Battlecruisers
88 Pulsar Light Cruisers
- 10 Transport Squadrons -
10 Binary Battlecruisers
20 Pulsar Light Cruisers
200 Nebula Transport Corvettes

Total: 384 ships

This makes the REF reinforcements of Earth significant, though well in line with the fleet launched by Earth in Triumvirate which had (thanks to screen caps from the Japanese Pioneer DVD release that are MUCH cleaner than even recent HD version by Harmony Gold):

39 Binary Battlecruisers
78 Pulsar Light Cruisers*
Unknown number of Transports*

* Assuming the ratio of 2:1 Light Cruisers to Battlecruisers that is observed.
** - We know they exist as they're talked about. We also know that in Clone Chamber Marie Crystal's unit returns from Moon Base ALuCE-1 with 2 Pulsars and 5 Pegasus-class Assault Shuttes, which the latter could easily act as Veritech Transports in addition to fleet gunships. Safe to assume if the ratio is the same, 2.5:1, then ~195 Assault Shuttles.

[Alpha 11]

I have a working theory about Transport Squadron 85 that only recently occurred to me. The dialogue always seemed a little funky in regards to what I can only assume is the Task Force position numbers for the ships. The relevant dialogue from Mind Games shows this:

MOONBASE CONTROL (aka Richard Epcar ): (Radio filter) Cleared from pre-ignition and lift off. Opening outer launch chute doors. You are under way T-377, 78, 79, and 80. . . .
TRISTAR-CLASS CRUISER COMMS: (Radio filter) Requesting squadron clearance to Earth orbit link-up point.
MOONBASE CONTROL: Roger "T" Squadron; you are now cleared to proceed to your orbit window for link up.
TRISTAR-CLASS CRUISER COMMS: (Radio filter) This is T-382 clearing launch chute.

T-377, 78 and 79 are all shown to be Binary-class Battlecruisers. T-380 is a Pulsar. T-382 is a Tristar. Establishing shots (which are used multiple times across the episode) give us a ratio of 7 ships per "Battlegroup": 1 Tristar, 2 Binaries, 4 Pulsars. The opening shots of Transport Squadron 85 arriving show 14 Nebula-class Corvette Transports and 1 Binary.

Further along in the episode, in establishing shots, it gives us an absolute minimum ship total:

3 Tristar-class Large Cruisers
4 Binary-class Battlecruisers
4 Pulsar-class Light Cruisers
14 Nebula-class Transport Corvettes

So we have 2 ratios: 7 warships: Tristar, 2 Binaries, 4 Pulsars and 14 Transport Corvettes to every 1 Binary.

Crunching the numbers, I think this may (coincidentally?) be what was plotted by Robotech's Staff Writers. The scenes in the original Southern Cross have no such dialogue associated with ARLES CONTROL and any of the ships of Task Force 3 (the designation given for the arrival of the Battlecruiser and Transports). So, I don't wanna hear none of that "tRaNsLaTiOn ErRoR' crap.

So, given the observed ratios, I think Task Force 3 (for lack of a better name), including Transport Squadron 85 is composed of 385 ships:

11 Tristar Large Cruisers
22 Binary Battlecruisers
44 Pulsar Light Cruisers
308 Nebula Transport Corvettes

Total: 385 ships

I also came up, after a little while, with an alternate set of figures, again trying to hit the mark around ~382, that reduced the number of Corvette Transports and increased the battlewagons. I had to assume we had the same ratio of Battlecruisers to Light Cruisers:

Task Force 3
- 22 Battlegroups -
22 Tristar Large Cruisers
44 Binary Battlecruisers
88 Pulsar Light Cruisers
- 10 Transport Squadrons -
10 Binary Battlecruisers
20 Pulsar Light Cruisers
200 Nebula Transport Corvettes

Total: 384 ships

This makes the REF reinforcements of Earth significant, though well in line with the fleet launched by Earth in Triumvirate which had (thanks to screen caps from the Japanese Pioneer DVD release that are MUCH cleaner than even recent HD version by Harmony Gold):

39 Binary Battlecruisers
78 Pulsar Light Cruisers*
Unknown number of Transports*

* Assuming the ratio of 2:1 Light Cruisers to Battlecruisers that is observed.
** - We know they exist as they're talked about. We also know that in Clone Chamber Marie Crystal's unit returns from Moon Base ALuCE-1 with 2 Pulsars and 5 Pegasus-class Assault Shuttes, which the latter could easily act as Veritech Transports in addition to fleet gunships. Safe to assume if the ratio is the same, 2.5:1, then ~195 Assault Shuttles.

Nice.

[glitterboy2098]

or, instead of hundreds of implausibly sequential hull codes, it was a task force designation scheme closer to the radio call signs used by used by aircraft, the "modex". which IRL is a combination of tailcode (a letter combo unique to squadrons) and a numbering based on battlefield role (based on the # of squadrons for fighters, and role for support craft) and which aircraft it is in a squadron. thus AB-308 would be "first carrier wing, 3rd squadron, 8th aircraft. while AB-510 would be "first carrier wing, electronic warfare squadron, aircraft 10."

navy task forces use a similar set up IRL, with a task force number (usually two digits), with decimal point add ons for sub-divisions. thus TF-77.4.3 was "task force 77, group 4, sub-group 3" (aka "taffy 3" in this case, which was a unit of destroyers assigned to protect TF77's escort carriers)

given that space navies have both wet navy and airforce elements to deal with, the idea that "T-377" might mean "task force 3, Detachment 7, ship 7" isn't much of a stretch.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Well, that still doesn't rule out a large task force since 78, 79, 80 and 82 would indicate Task Force 3 is at least 82 warships in size. That might still leave you with hundreds of smaller corvettes to 7 or 8 dozen capital ships.

[glitterboy2098]

except as i pointed out that the second number might not be a count but a squadron/detachment or role designation. there may have been 9 ships in task force 3 detachment 7, and only 2 in task force 3 detachment 8. (which wouldn't be unusual, if detachment 7 was say, was the task force's group escorting destroyers, and detachment 7 the task force's EWAR platforms or their logistical transports)

radio designations are always laden with meaning, and never just simple numerical counts.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

except as i pointed out that the second number might not be a count but a squadron/detachment or role designation.

Which still doesn't rule out a Task Force with dozens of capital ships and possibly hundreds of smaller logistics ships....