Star Trek Bomb

[Veknironth]

Well, this is one of the things that Trek fans always wondered about. Why bother with phasers and torpedoes when you can simply transport explosives wherever you want? Well, there is a Palladium version of this that I think would work.

You have a diabolist create a nasty area of effect ward on a 50lb chest, with the true name of a wizard on it to prevent it from being activated by that wizard. Then you have this wizard cast Teleport: Lesser on the chest and transport it into a group of enemies or wherever you wanted the bomb to go off.

-Vek
"Blow me up, Scotty.
"

[kiralon]

By the description of it not being used as a hand grenade or the like i would assume be activated by the teleport and hit the area around the diabolist. This is the way i would play it as it does seem that wards are mines, not projectiles.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The above ideas are why in Rifts you can't T-port into vehicles or buildings. Can't have mages using their smarts to defeat my pet neo-nazis.

[Soldier of Od]

I agree with Kiralon - I would rule that attempting to "move" the object using a teleport spell will set off the ward (before it disappears), just like if you move any active warded object. You could roll the 1-65% chance for "jostling" a warded object to see if the teleport sets the ward off (PFRPG page 125), in which case it might work, but there is a significant risk!


Also... you can't transport stuff beyond a spaceship's shields right? You'd have to knockout their shields with your photon torpedoes first. And once they're gone, unshielded spaceships are already pretty vulnerable, so another torpedo will do the job nicely. And without contravening what ever war crimes convention the Federation might have!

[ShadowLogan]

Well, this is one of the things that Trek fans always wondered about. Why bother with phasers and torpedoes when you can simply transport explosives wherever you want?

Short answer is that Transporter Beams can be blocked by various phenomena, including shields. Now as to why no one does it when the shields are down (either knocked out or as a surprise action) that is another matter.

You have a diabolist create a nasty area of effect ward on a 50lb chest, with the true name of a wizard on it to prevent it from being activated by that wizard. Then you have this wizard cast Teleport: Lesser on the chest and transport it into a group of enemies or wherever you wanted the bomb to go off.

What makes you think that you can teleport energized Wards? While I don't know of anything that specifically says YES or NO to the question, teleportation could be considered a disturbance (as you are moving the item) which would set it off normally.

Now you could teleport something like Magic Powders (or Fumes) in a breakable container to drop in and break distributing the contents over the area (or something mundane) acting as a sort of Elemental-type Wall attack. No wards required of course.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I think that the disturbance issue is a non-issue if the creator of the wards was doing the t-porting. the text seams to me that it's aimed at other people disturbing the item.

[Library Ogre]

What makes you think that you can teleport energized Wards? While I don't know of anything that specifically says YES or NO to the question, teleportation could be considered a disturbance (as you are moving the item) which would set it off normally.

Does having an attached permanence ward make one unable to be teleported?

As set up, I don't see why Vek's plan wouldn't work. However, I'd also go with something like the Star Trek Defenses... you can't teleport something inside even an open Simple Protection circle. I imagine a lot of armies travel with one or more summoners for that purpose... while the grunts set up the tents, the summoners bust out the rope compasses to inscribe a circle.

[kiralon]

The permanence ward is a tricky case (well wards are in general). It keeps the power active permanently, but the decription of area efect wards it says
"If the warded object is moved, it goes off instantly, affecting that area. Tossing the object away will not change/move the area currently being affected."
So moving the warded object doesn't change the location affected.
Also it says that wards can magically discern threat
Wind spells (even wind rush), earthquake and similar attacks are not likely to trigger any wards (unless great damage is inflicted), because they are magically perceived by the wards to be natural and nonthreatening, only 1-10% chance.
So it seems that trying to get around the ward activation rules is less successful than it should be (shooting a ward with an arrow will not set it off, shooting an arrow with one on it will????)
however
It does say that the diabolist is the only one that can move them without setting them off so he should be able to throw them or put them on weapons and armour but that doesn't work apparently.
So even with a permanence ward, i still think it would go off at the start point of teleport, and the effect stays at that location, even though the carved ward itself is 300 miles away.

[Library Ogre]

It does say that the diabolist is the only one that can move them without setting them off so he should be able to throw them or put them on weapons and armour but that doesn't work apparently.

PFRPG2, p. 121 "Wards can also be made to exempt a specific person, so he or she can touch and move the item without activating the magic, but if another person should touch it, the ward is activated and that person will suffer the ward assault."

PFRPG1, p 107 "The diabolist can also set up an item or area ward so that a specific person or persons other than himself can come and go or touch it without activating the ward."

So, as the initial post said:

You have a diabolist create a nasty area of effect ward on a 50lb chest, with the true name of a wizard on it to prevent it from being activated by that wizard. Then you have this wizard cast Teleport: Lesser on the chest and transport it into a group of enemies or wherever you wanted the bomb to go off.

So, the question is, will the teleport, by a person able to touch the item, cause a problem. It could equally be a diabolist with a scroll, or an alchemist, or a wizard/diabolist.

[Veknironth]

Well, I read the responses earlier in the day and was all prepared to defdndtmy original post and mention some alternatives, but Mark did it for me. Thanks!

-Vek
"The check is in the mail."

[GoliathReturns]

Let's be honest- the rules for wards have loopholes that you could fit an entire armada of borg cubes through.

--GS
Wards. The final frontier. These are the voyages of the diabolist Goliath.

[kiralon]

It would then come down to whether you think that using it in that method is using it as a hand grenade. I think it is, others won't. The truest answer would be roll 1d6, 1-3 no, 4-6 yes.

nor can they be inscribed on discs, stones, arrows, weapons or objects and used as hand grenades
So as i mentioned, i think the idea is not to be used as a ranged weapon, but like many other things is very open to how you parse the language.

[Library Ogre]

It would then come down to whether you think that using it in that method is using it as a hand grenade. I think it is, others won't. The truest answer would be roll 1d6, 1-3 no, 4-6 yes.

nor can they be inscribed on discs, stones, arrows, weapons or objects and used as hand grenades
So as i mentioned, i think the idea is not to be used as a ranged weapon, but like many other things is very open to how you parse the language.

But it also comes back to the mechanism. It doesn't need to be used as a hand grenade; put the unlocked chest in the middle of an army with "Free Beer" on it, and you're gonna get someone to open it of their own accord, just in case they can get some MGD.

[kiralon]

That sir would work, as it is then being used as a mine as long as the chest was put there without anyone close enough to activate it.
It should work being put on a stick, with the maker being able to move them and then walking up to someone and hitting them, but wards are smart, they know they are being used incorrectly.

[Veknironth]

Well, if the diabolist can manually move the chest into an area without setting it off, why can't the same diabolist use a spell to accomplish the same feat?

-Vek
"I realize I'm about to derail my own post."

[kiralon]

same reason why a diabolist cant carry a ward encrusted stick up to someone and smack em with it. The rules seem to say they can, but also cant

[Library Ogre]

But they can carry an energized AoA ward and force-activate it.

[GoliathReturns]

same reason why a diabolist cant carry a ward encrusted stick up to someone and smack em with it. The rules seem to say they can, but also cant

Until you get the "forced activation" ability. In which case, by all the rules you can, except the very specific "you can't do this, because we say so"

Which is where a lot of problems with wards pop up.

The diabolist has always been one of my favorite classes, but the rules for the class are often contradictory.

But for all this, I honestly think the landmine alternative is much simpler, and doesn't run into the rules problems.

--GS