Vampires in Repose

[Veknironth]

Well, I know someone might answer this out of the Vampire Kingdoms book but I'm not a big Rifts guy so forgive me if this answer lies in one of their books. But, can a vampire rest during the day in one of its metamorphosized forms? It doesn't say anything about it in the Western Empire, but I don't see why they couldn't rest upside down as a bat in a cave. This isn't the old Dracula who has to sleep in a coffin with the dirt from his homeland.

-Vek
"Asking for a possible friend."

[Grazzik]

Reading through Western Empire and Land of the Damned 2, I see nothing that would prohibit this. A good idea, I could envision:

Spoiler:

The party exploring a deep cave near a village that has a deep carpet of fog that seems to roil around their feet as they explore deeper into the cave system...

Spoiler:

Old Jerry the Mad Monk has a bat in the belfry that seems particularly miffed if disturbed during the day. However, if anyone happens to look closely at the bat, (if they fail a save vs Mind Control) they always say the same thing before vigorously ushering everyone out of the belfry: "There is absolutely nothing here of interest - we're wasting our time." Everyone roll for Perception to see if anyone caught the brief red glow in the bat's eyes just prior.

[Prysus]

I know someone might answer this out of the Vampire Kingdoms book but I'm not a big Rifts guy so forgive me if this answer lies in one of their books.

This isn't the old Dracula who has to sleep in a coffin with the dirt from his homeland.

Greetings and Salutations. Since you brought up Rifts ...

Soil of the Homeland is a feature in Rifts (as well as Nightbane). I'm not a huge fan of Rifts (I actually like Nightbane), but tend to have many of the books for situations like this one.

Now, Soil of the Homeland is effectively the continent where the vampire was created (not born as a mortal, but created as a vampire), so I see why this was more or less left out of Palladium Fantasy (which is one continent, unless maybe they were created on one of the islands, but that seems like a bad idea with their issues of running water). This section also discusses how the soil needs to create a thin layer of dirt "on the floor of the vampire's sleeping container."

Furthermore, in PF Book 8: Western Empire, page 216, Death by Sunlight, we have a note about Globe of Daylight that reads: "... if cast inside a vampire coffin ..."

Going back to Rifts, this is concept is also mentioned in the area about their Vulnerability to Running Water, which mentions transporting them over the running water "sealed in a (ideally waterproof) container (coffin?) ..."

I think Palladium discusses things like coffins and containers so much is the concept that if sunlight can get into an area, this will still affect the vampire. So a belfry or a room with any type of windows would probably not work. Even sleeping in the closet with the door closed, some sunlight may creep into the bottom of the doorway. As a result, they tend to sleep in containers (such as a coffin) that can be sealed tight.

As an individual, I'd probably allow the vampire to sleep upside down as a bat inside a cave, as long as they were deep enough inside that no natural light could reach them. If someone wanted to a stickler for the soil issue, I'd consider adjusting to sleeping as a wolf in a cave (again, deep enough inside no natural light can reach).

Now, the problem could arise if it's trying to hide among several other bats or wolves, as animals tend to be sensitive to the supernatural and avoid it (Monsters & Animals, in particular regarding Canines/Wolves, Horses, and Felines). Ergo, most normal animals would probably sense the unnatural vampire and flee. However, if enough vampires got together to form a colony of bats or a pack of wolves, this may help sell the illusion. Note: How animals would react is, of course, a G.M. call, and bats are never called out specifically (but the listed animal types are the "most" sensitive, indicating others are still sensitive). Just adding information.

Hopefully some of that helped. If desired, I can provide specific books and page numbers for the references above (but as the original post indicating not using those books, I didn't waste the time). Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[GoliathReturns]

Strictly looking in PF, I'm not seeing anything that says they CAN, but I'm also not seeing anything that says they CAN'T.

Personally, I'd say it's possible, but most likely a rare ability.

Maybe give it only to master vampires, and exceptionally old secondaries.

Or, maybe let it be a power that's along certain bloodlines. This master fang figured out how, and he's passed the ability on to those he turns, who pass it along to those they make.

I'd say it's a creative solution, but should be applied carefully

--
GS

[Soldier of Od]

I've been looking through the books, and I don't see why they can't sleep in a metamorphosed form. But that does bring up the problem that, if this is the case, wouldn't every vampire go to sleep as mist so that they can't be staked in their sleep?

However, in most of the Palladium game lines, they do have to sleep on a bed of soil from their homeland, so unfortunately, they couldn't hang from the ceiling of a cave, even though that would be cool. It never occurred to me before, but this being the case, does this mean that, even if they still live in their homeland, they need to sleep directly on soil? So a vampire who was turned in North America and lives in Detroit can't actually sleep in an ordinary bed, but needs to bring some earth into their house for sleepy time? And a vampire trapped for days in an inescapable cell with no earth or soil in it cannot sleep, and therefore goes insane, even if that cell is on the same continent on which they were created? Just checking.

If Palladium Fantasy vampires don't need to sleep on soil, I guess that is a special case. Something to do with Vald-Tegor perhaps?

[GoliathReturns]

If Palladium Fantasy vampires don't need to sleep on soil, I guess that is a special case. Something to do with Vald-Tegor perhaps?

Very valid line of thinking. After all, he's not JUST a Vampire Intelligence, but also a deity.

This may mean that the vamps from his lineage might have special perks.

But all this leads to another question, based on the various PB "sleeps on soil"- how wide is "homeland", and what happens when borders change?

Say a Vampire is from the Western Empire. Would soil from anywhere in the Empire work?

What about if his once home now belongs to some other kingdom? Is it now "Nimro Soil" he needs?

What if something happens to completely change that region? Day devastating magic is used, and the area he once called home is now beneath the Inland Sea?

What about if it's one if the Floerny Islands? Does he need from his specific Island, or from any? What if the water level drops, and now another 200 feet is exposed land? Does that soil count?

--
GS

[Prysus]

But all this leads to another question, based on the various PB "sleeps on soil"- how wide is "homeland", and what happens when borders change?

Greetings and Salutations. I addressed this a bit above, but if we're using "various PB" rules, then "homeland" is the entire continent. On Earth, they use all of North America as an example, which includes Canada, the United States, and Mexico.

Say a Vampire is from the Western Empire. Would soil from anywhere in the Empire work?

A vampire from created in the Western Empire can use soil from the Great Northern Wilderness or even the Land of the South Winds. So shifting borders won't matter, as long as the continent remains.

I'm not sure if this would include Lopan, Phi, Floenry Islands, and other islands. Afraid my knowledge is a bit limited on the technicalities there.

Since the Palladium World is effectively a single continent, I suspect it was left out of the PF book for space and being a relatively irrelevant condition. However, that is just an opinion and others may rule how they see fit.

Hope some of that helps. Farewell and safe journeys.

[GoliathReturns]

Since the Palladium World is effectively a single continent, I suspect it was left out of the PF book for space and being a relatively irrelevant condition. However, that is just an opinion and others may rule how they see fit.
[/justify]

If we're going off of "anywhere on the continent, then it really doesn't for PF, which would explain not including it. Why include a rule that doesn't matter?

PS- yes, I did miss you mentioning it before.

--
GS

[Soldier of Od]

The Palladium World is just one continent... but, if a vampire has to actually sleep on soil, then it doesn't matter what continent they are on, they still need to dig up some earth and put it on their bed/in their coffin. Just being on the correct continent isn't enough (at least in Rifts, Nightbane, etc.). So if soil is a requirement for Palladium Fantasy vampires, it would still need to be mentioned. That is part of what prompted my earlier questions above.

[Prysus]

The Palladium World is just one continent... but, if a vampire has to actually sleep on soil, then it doesn't matter what continent they are on, they still need to dig up some earth and put it on their bed/in their coffin. Just being on the correct continent isn't enough (at least in Rifts, Nightbane, etc.). So if soil is a requirement for Palladium Fantasy vampires, it would still need to be mentioned. That is part of what prompted my earlier questions above.

Greetings and Salutations. I agree with your overall point, but disagree with how Palladium presents information in general.

When Palladium discusses the Soil of the Homeland in Rifts and Nightbane, to my reading their entire focus is on how vampires need to manage this requirement when leaving their homeland (continent of creation). While it's implied this limitation would remain in the homeland itself, Palladium doesn't really discuss it directly.

Palladium doesn't really seem to view a vampire sleeping in their homeland soil while in their homeland as worth discussing. If you spread some holy water in their bed to ruin their sleep, they can just walk to the backyard and get some more, pull up the floor boards and go to sleep beneath the house, go into a cave and just sleep on the floor, etc. Palladium generally won't spend a few paragraphs of a book to discuss how to minorly inconvenience a vampire. I'm not sure I can think of a method that can effectively ruin every bit of soil for miles and miles around, while simultaneously having no direct impact on the vampire.

So do I think that rule probably still applies in PF based on the entries from Rifts and Nightbane? Yes. Do I think Palladium opted to not repeat the info in the PF setting because it's rather insignificant and not something players can really use to fight against the vampires native to the Palladium World? Also yes. Kevin has often talked about how books should be relevant to the players, and this feels like one of those things that wouldn't be very relevant to how a player deals with a vampire (pouring holy water on a few inches of soil won't be a big impact to a vampire who can gather more soil from anywhere in the world).

I suppose you're welcome to disagree, but I just don't see it right now. Anyway, just my thoughts. Farewell and safe journeys.