Trade languages, native languages and culture.

[Warshield73]

I was writing some background for a Phase World adventure based on the following:

- Information recovered from a human warship drifting in space since the AI war.

Now I was trying to decide what language it would be in and if it is in an old human language, like actual English or Chinese would anyone know how to read it?

Also, do the major races still use there native language(s)? Very few are even mentioned and almost none are listed as actual OCC or RCC skills. The Noro OCCs have no listed language, in a few places we see the "elf" language or the "dwarf" language or "kreeghor" in descriptions but not as listed skills, the Oni RCCs have a language listed but they are the exception.

Many OCCs list trade languages as the native languages so would that be the case throughout the three galaxies and individual languages just disappear?

Separate question: Trade 6 is listed as a new language created by CCW linguists. I have always had this as only being a hundred or two hundred years old and very few speaks, mostly in the CCW.
Is the creation date of Trade 6 listed anywhere and does anyone see this differently.

[Blue_Lion]

If I recall trade 4 is based on English. People have the ability to communicate with people from NA so earth langues can not be unknown in phase world. (some of the words might be different but the base is the same so it would be possible to read.)
There could be language translators programmed with old earth languages.
If all else fells there is magic. Level 5 spell eyes of Thoth. (see book of magic pg 106.)

There are also races that can understand all languages.

Other languages likely fell to back ground. They may still be known but thousands exist. It even says so. The use as trade languages as native is to make it easier for the party to be able to talk.


If it was over a generation old (20 years) it could have spread quite far and would not be uncommon.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Yes, there are native languages still used on their native planets. It is just they are not listed to save space.
[even the elf and dwarf languages listed in the books would act as trade languages between elves and dwarves due to how lingistic drift is a million times faster then genetic drift. With each Elf and dwarf planet developing their own diaect of elf or dwarf.]

Yes, the Trade Languages will tend to infiltrate the cultures of planets. But depending on the culture of the planet. will determain how much the trade languages infiltrate the planet's nat lang.

Mostly it will just be the spacers, customs staff and ambasitorial staffs that will see a trade language 'take over'.

[Warshield73]

Yes, there are native languages still used on their native planets. It is just they are not listed to save space.
[even the elf and dwarf languages listed in the books would act as trade languages between elves and dwarves due to how lingistic drift is a million times faster then genetic drift. With each Elf and dwarf planet developing their own diaect of elf or dwarf.]

Yes, the Trade Languages will tend to infiltrate the cultures of planets. But depending on the culture of the planet. will determain how much the trade languages infiltrate the planet's nat lang.

Mostly it will just be the spacers, customs staff and ambasitorial staffs that will see a trade language 'take over'.

See I tend to agree with you but there is nothing in the books that corroborate it. Now I put a lot of things in Rifts in general and PW in particular that are not in the books but I am trying to get the book stuff first. In the books all we have are a few For most of the OCC's a trade language is listed as the Native tongue not as an extra the way I would expect.

Some planets seem to be monocultures (wulfen and Oni come to mind) but others like humans and noro had nation states and probably separate cultures.

As for Trade languages just being for spacers and diplomats that seems unlikely as it specifically says that if you speak 3 or more of the languages your all but guaranteed to be able to communicate on most planets. To me this says that even planet based people tend to use them.

Since there doesn't seem to be anything in the book about native languages I think this falls into the category of if you need it you need to create it for yourself.

I ended up creating a few languages for Humans from there early history that connect to Earth languages that I am tentatively titling Terran-Angla (English) and Terran-Mand (Mandarin) which would be the most common. I am basing this on the description of Trade 4 so I am thinking I might include less common languages like Terran-Russk (Russian) and maybe something like Terran-Espa or Terran-Castil (Spanish). I'm still not clear on how much of human culture and language came through with Terrans from whichever earth they came from but I always assumed it was very little but I figure by the time of the CCW most Terran languages had been subsumed by Trade 4.

As for Trade 6 I would still like to figure out how old it is but for me I rarely use it anyway. Trade 1-5 are specific OCC skills for several OCCs but trade 6 not once so I just assume that it is largely an academic and diplomatic language.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Yes, there are native languages still used on their native planets. It is just they are not listed to save space.
[even the elf and dwarf languages listed in the books would act as trade languages between elves and dwarves due to how lingistic drift is a million times faster then genetic drift. With each Elf and dwarf planet developing their own diaect of elf or dwarf.]

Eh... Linguistic Drift is also rapidly disappearing completely in the real world because of recording technology. In places like the 3G, it's probably almost nonexistent unless a society becomes totally isolated.

See I tend to agree with you but there is nothing in the books that corroborate it. Now I put a lot of things in Rifts in general and PW in particular that are not in the books but I am trying to get the book stuff first. In the books all we have are a few For most of the OCC's a trade language is listed as the Native tongue not as an extra the way I would expect.

Some planets seem to be monocultures (wulfen and Oni come to mind)

No on the Wolfen, at the very least. There are huge Wolfen populations that were never part of the Wolfen Empire (something like 12% of the UWW is Wolfen, and UWW space was nowhere near the Wolfen Empire).

However, Trade Three (i think? might have the number wrong) IS their native language.

but others like humans and noro had nation states and probably separate cultures.

As for Trade languages just being for spacers and diplomats that seems unlikely as it specifically says that if you speak 3 or more of the languages your all but guaranteed to be able to communicate on most planets. To me this says that even planet based people tend to use them.

I'd view this as something more akin to how a lot of countries other than the US basically make everyone learn English and/or Spanish in school. They probably have a native language (depending on race, for Humans, Trade 4 IS their native tongue (if thats the right number), but they ALSO learn a Trade Language (or two) in school. As an example, most Germans learn English in their equivalent of Middle School (all of them, if i recall); but the chances of them actually having to use it, in most cases, is quite low. But they all learn it. Same for most civilized worlds, i'd guess. You learn the native language (if there even is one; keep in mind a lot of places have been founded as Colonies of space-faring nations, so they might not have an ancient local language and just use a Trade language as the local language) and then learn a Trade language or two as a routine part of your education.

Since there doesn't seem to be anything in the book about native languages I think this falls into the category of if you need it you need to create it for yourself.

I ended up creating a few languages for Humans from there early history that connect to Earth languages that I am tentatively titling Terran-Angla (English)

Trade 4 (or whatever #) IS English. Just with different slang and connotations due to it being space based, but the basic language, syntax, etc, is identical.

and Terran-Mand (Mandarin) which would be the most common. I am basing this on the description of Trade 4 so I am thinking I might include less common languages like Terran-Russk (Russian) and maybe something like Terran-Espa or Terran-Castil (Spanish). I'm still not clear on how much of human culture and language came through with Terrans from whichever earth they came from but I always assumed it was very little but I figure by the time of the CCW most Terran languages had been subsumed by Trade 4.

Rather, (as it is implied) its far more likely that Humans came through from wherever, and then fell to complete Barbarism before regaining technology and space travel. So they probably retain precisely nothing of their previous cultures.

As for Trade 6 I would still like to figure out how old it is but for me I rarely use it anyway. Trade 1-5 are specific OCC skills for several OCCs but trade 6 not once so I just assume that it is largely an academic and diplomatic language.

[/quote]

Diplomatic, yes, to be sure, but still well-used precisely BECAUSE it is so universal.

As for age, if it was developed by the CCW, the best/easiest/KISS assumption is "not too much younger than the CCW itself". So, take the founding of the CCW, subtract ~30 years, and call it a day.

Edited for bad quoting.

[Warshield73]

Yes, there are native languages still used on their native planets. It is just they are not listed to save space.
[even the elf and dwarf languages listed in the books would act as trade languages between elves and dwarves due to how lingistic drift is a million times faster then genetic drift. With each Elf and dwarf planet developing their own diaect of elf or dwarf.]

Eh... Linguistic Drift is also rapidly disappearing completely in the real world because of recording technology. In places like the 3G, it's probably almost nonexistent unless a society becomes totally isolated.

Sorry, went full Geography Teacher here. Correct but most cultural and linguistic anthropologists that I have read and taught about link this to international mass media rather than recording devices in and of them selves. Recording devices have been around for over a century but as recently as the 1990's linguistic drift was actually accelerating. Examples would be Spanish in Mexico vs Spain (I have a hysterical story with teachers from Spain coming to Houston to teach Mexican-American students in 1998) and Mandarin in China vs expatriate groups in the US, Australia, Vietnam. Mass media going international is what stems this tide and in many cases, including the two I cited, have actually reversed. This being said your point about drift only really happening to groups who are isolated I think would be correct. But, as we have seen in real world examples it can happen quickly, 2 or 3 generations for a dialectical change and full separate language 5 or more generations.

See I tend to agree with you but there is nothing in the books that corroborate it. Now I put a lot of things in Rifts in general and PW in particular that are not in the books but I am trying to get the book stuff first. In the books all we have are a few For most of the OCC's a trade language is listed as the Native tongue not as an extra the way I would expect.

Some planets seem to be monocultures (wulfen and Oni come to mind)

No on the Wolfen, at the very least. There are huge Wolfen populations that were never part of the Wolfen Empire (something like 12% of the UWW is Wolfen, and UWW space was nowhere near the Wolfen Empire).

However, Trade Three (i think? might have the number wrong) IS their native language.

I didn't say anything about where they came from I called them a monoculture. This is true both in PW and PFRPG. In PFRPG there are I think 4 or more human languages but for Wolfen there is only 1. The same is true in PW. The Wolfen are described as basically a single, mono, cultural identity that has had very little in the way of variation that I have seen. Trade 3 is there language but it is not identical to Wolfen in PFRPG.

Trade Three: Trade Three is the wolfen language, slightly streamlined to reduce the guttural and growling elements common to the "classical" Wolfen language, but is otherwise identical. However, to make a good impression on wolfen speakers, it is necessary to emphasize the growls and whines of the original language. 50% plus any LQ. bonuses and 5% per level of experience.

The Oni are described the same with only one language and cultural identity.

...but others like humans and noro had nation states and probably separate cultures.

As for Trade languages just being for spacers and diplomats that seems unlikely as it specifically says that if you speak 3 or more of the languages your all but guaranteed to be able to communicate on most planets. To me this says that even planet based people tend to use them.

I'd view this as something more akin to how a lot of countries other than the US basically make everyone learn English and/or Spanish in school. They probably have a native language (depending on race, for Humans, Trade 4 IS their native tongue (if thats the right number), but they ALSO learn a Trade Language (or two) in school. As an example, most Germans learn English in their equivalent of Middle School (all of them, if i recall); but the chances of them actually having to use it, in most cases, is quite low. But they all learn it. Same for most civilized worlds, i'd guess. You learn the native language (if there even is one; keep in mind a lot of places have been founded as Colonies of space-faring nations, so they might not have an ancient local language and just use a Trade language as the local language) and then learn a Trade language or two as a routine part of your education.

First, I almost entirely agree with you on this but as I said earlier there is nothing in the book to support it. Again this is how I sort of run it but I am trying to find stuff in the book first.

Second, culturally languages disappear when they lack value in terms of economics and social status. If your kids are all watching vids and reading books in Trade 4 than your native language is in trouble. When your kids have started to make vids and write books in Trade 4 instead of your native language it is dying, This is why you see such strong language purity laws in France and why there is even some push back against the laws requiring English in schools in Germany. It takes a lot of work to maintain a culturally intact language.

Since there doesn't seem to be anything in the book about native languages I think this falls into the category of if you need it you need to create it for yourself.

I ended up creating a few languages for Humans from there early history that connect to Earth languages that I am tentatively titling Terran-Angla (English)

Trade 4 (or whatever #) IS English. Just with different slang and connotations due to it being space based, but the basic language, syntax, etc, is identical.

Nope. I think we can assume that the basic syntax and grammatical structure are very similar but...

Trade Four: This language is clearly based on English/American. It has evolved enough to be different, however, with the addition of a number of technical terms, slang and foreign words (some of which are similar to other Earth languages like French, Chinese, Russian and Spanish). Normal English/American speakers automatically have Trade Four at 50% plus any LQ. bonuses and 5% per level of experience.

If a person from PW walks into Rifts North America or Heroes Unlimited U.S. people will know they are speaking a (if slightly) different language probably to the point that we could consider modern English (HU, BTS, etc.), Rifts American, and Trade 4 different dialects.

...and Terran-Mand (Mandarin) which would be the most common. I am basing this on the description of Trade 4 so I am thinking I might include less common languages like Terran-Russk (Russian) and maybe something like Terran-Espa or Terran-Castil (Spanish). I'm still not clear on how much of human culture and language came through with Terrans from whichever earth they came from but I always assumed it was very little but I figure by the time of the CCW most Terran languages had been subsumed by Trade 4.

Rather, (as it is implied) its far more likely that Humans came through from wherever, and then fell to complete Barbarism before regaining technology and space travel. So they probably retain precisely nothing of their previous cultures.

First where is the climb from barbarism listed. In the timeline in DB 13 Fleets it says that humans crashed but prior to this it was always stated as just a possibility. I had always viewed this as a loss of technology but not knowledge so more like what we saw with the development of Humans on Novus in Stargate Universe. We know some knowledge of old earth culture remains due to quotes like this

These guns also appeal to some romantic humans who still remember the legends of the "Old West" from a time when humans still dwelt on the mythical planet Earth.

There are a few others like this in the first 3 books but that was the easiest to find.

As for Trade 6 I would still like to figure out how old it is but for me I rarely use it anyway. Trade 1-5 are specific OCC skills for several OCCs but trade 6 not once so I just assume that it is largely an academic and diplomatic language.

Diplomatic, yes, to be sure, but still well-used precisely BECAUSE it is so universal.

Disagree, if this is what was intended wouldn't this be an OCC skill for someone? Anyone. Trade 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are all listed as OCC skills for at least one OCC but Trade 6 not once.

Now if this was an early creation of the CCW, an attempt to create a CCW wide common tongue, then I would think each OCC would have two language skills, 1 is native with second being Trade 6. But, that isn't the case. Would be cool if it was though.

As for age, if it was developed by the CCW, the best/easiest/KISS assumption is "not too much younger than the CCW itself". So, take the founding of the CCW, subtract ~30 years, and call it a day.

This does make it easier but makes no sense. Why would an organization consisting of two similar races (humans and noro) create a new language and why would any one care enough to learn some academic creation from a minor power. Which definitely describes the CCW of that time. The earliest I could see Trade 6 being created is 500 years ago after the first war.

You do bring up something that I had only barely considered, how long has any of these languages been in use? I mean humans have only been flying around for 5,000 years and the CCW is 700 so when did others start using Trade 4. It couldn't be before that as humans were still a local species fighting the AI wars. I would say Trade 4 did not change from a human language to a trade language much before 600 years ago based on the timeline in Fleets but that is pure supposition on my part.

Given the timelines we have I would say the oldest Trade 6 could be is about 400 years ago coming out of CCW expansion and the "Scramble" but I still think it is far newer maybe a century or two but I base this on nothing more than how long it takes for languages to spread IRL.

[SolCannibal]

See I tend to agree with you but there is nothing in the books that corroborate it. Now I put a lot of things in Rifts in general and PW in particular that are not in the books but I am trying to get the book stuff first. In the books all we have are a few For most of the OCC's a trade language is listed as the Native tongue not as an extra the way I would expect.

Some planets seem to be monocultures (wulfen and Oni come to mind)

No on the Wolfen, at the very least. There are huge Wolfen populations that were never part of the Wolfen Empire (something like 12% of the UWW is Wolfen, and UWW space was nowhere near the Wolfen Empire).

However, Trade Three (i think? might have the number wrong) IS their native language.

I didn't say anything about where they came from I called them a monoculture. This is true both in PW and PFRPG. In PFRPG there are I think 4 or more human languages but for Wolfen there is only 1. The same is true in PW. The Wolfen are described as basically a single, mono, cultural identity that has had very little in the way of variation that I have seen. Trade 3 is there language but it is not identical to Wolfen in PFRPG.

Damn, and now i want to explore in a game the subject of the actual place did the first Wolfen that speak Trade 3 as their native language originally came from. Or where they learned from other people and it superseded the Wolfen language of Palladium or whatever.

[Warshield73]

I didn't say anything about where they came from I called them a monoculture. This is true both in PW and PFRPG. In PFRPG there are I think 4 or more human languages but for Wolfen there is only 1. The same is true in PW. The Wolfen are described as basically a single, mono, cultural identity that has had very little in the way of variation that I have seen. Trade 3 is there language but it is not identical to Wolfen in PFRPG.

Damn, and now i want to explore in a game the subject of the actual place did the first Wolfen that speak Trade 3 as their native language originally came from. Or where they learned from other people and it superseded the Wolfen language of Palladium or whatever.

Actually I brought this up in another forum post on Origin of Species on Palladium .

My underlying assumption is that unlike humans, that we know came from somewhere else, Motherhome is where Wolfen/Wulfen evolved (and probably Kancoran and coyles as well) and then they were transplanted by rifts to other worlds.

Again just an assumption but they have to come from somewhere.

[SolCannibal]

I didn't say anything about where they came from I called them a monoculture. This is true both in PW and PFRPG. In PFRPG there are I think 4 or more human languages but for Wolfen there is only 1. The same is true in PW. The Wolfen are described as basically a single, mono, cultural identity that has had very little in the way of variation that I have seen. Trade 3 is there language but it is not identical to Wolfen in PFRPG.

Damn, and now i want to explore in a game the subject of the actual place did the first Wolfen that speak Trade 3 as their native language originally came from. Or where they learned from other people and it superseded the Wolfen language of Palladium or whatever.

Actually I brought this up in another forum post on Origin of Species on Palladium .

My underlying assumption is that unlike humans, that we know came from somewhere else, Motherhome is where Wolfen/Wulfen evolved (and probably Kancoran and coyles as well) and then they were transplanted by rifts to other worlds.

Again just an assumption but they have to come from somewhere.

Doing a quick recheck on DB2:
- Trade-01 is the oldest language, of unknown origin and according to some claims, a creation of the First Race.

- Trade-02 is favored by telepathic races, also unknown origin. Telepaths/empaths have +20% bonus to learn Trade Two. Non-psychics have a -15% penalty. [As an aside, partly tempted as a joke to bring the Neuron Beasts or Mindolar as an elder race and long-lost creators of Trade-02. ]

- Trade-03 is indeed the same wolfen language as in PF, slightly streamlined to reduce the guttural and growling elements common to the "classical" Wolfen language, but is otherwise identical. [So either Motherhome is the world Palladium's Wolfen were extracted from or the world is simply the first place where wolfen from either Palladium or some other dimension/world were rifted into the3Gs-verse for the first time. Could go either way.]

- Trade-04 is is clearly based on English/American. It has evolved enough to be different, however, with the addition of a number of technical terms, slang and foreign words (some of which are similar to other Earth languages like French, Chinese, Russian and Spanish). [Strongly implying the humans from 3Gs were rifted from one among many parallel Earths]

- Trade-05 uses hisses, whistles and clicks for most words. It is favored by many reptilian and insectoid races. Humans and other air breathers can understand and learn Trade Five at no penalty, although they will retain a distinguishable "accent" that separates them from the races for which the language was originally created. Is commonly used by the kreeghor and seljuk races, and is usually the second language of the draconids. [that is hilarious on many levels because a crapload of animal species from insects to reptiles, mammals and birds actually hiss - in none of them it's supposed to communicate something beside "back off!!!" ]

- Trade-06 is an artificial "universal language" made to maximize communication between the multiple varied species of the 3G by the CCW linguists, while mostly vocal it also has a strong sign language complementary component too.

Nice of the CCW's part and definitely makes sense considering the morass of star-nations that they are.

[Zenvis]

In my Phase World game I have Trade languages, regional languages, then planetary languages. This allows for Dragonese and Spluggorthian, Atlantian languages as they are spoken in a sector of space and not necessarily galaxy wide. I have my players choose one or two languages that are native to the sector and then go from there.

[Warshield73]

Languages in Sci-Fi settings are always a problem. In a realistic setting each planet would have hundreds of languages but that can be a problem for a 1 hour show. I think Stargate was the worst with this with every species in at least 2 galaxies magically speaking modern English but this is largely crutch for easier story telling. The same is true with universal translators in Star Trek, translator microbes in Farscape or Babel Fish in Hitchhikers.

I think my problem with Trade languages isn't that they are lazy, which they are, it's that they don't build on anything in Palladium's other games or really give anything cultural for a GM to build on in the Three Galaxies.

Doing a quick recheck on DB2:
- Trade-01 is the oldest language, of unknown origin and according to some claims, a creation of the First Race.

- Trade-02 is favored by telepathic races, also unknown origin. Telepaths/empaths have +20% bonus to learn Trade Two. Non-psychics have a -15% penalty. [As an aside, partly tempted as a joke to bring the Neuron Beasts or Mindolar as an elder race and long-lost creators of Trade-02. ]

Your idea here is kind of what I'm talking about. Give Trade 1 a name and connect it to languages in PF, or AU or hell Mechanoids. Don't call it trade 2, give it a name and make it identical or similar to languages spoken by other psychic races. Languages can add to the sense of history and mystery in a setting, the Trade languages just seem to serve a mechanical purpose and is about a half step above everybody just speaking English.

- Trade-03 is indeed the same wolfen language as in PF, slightly streamlined to reduce the guttural and growling elements common to the "classical" Wolfen language, but is otherwise identical. [So either Motherhome is the world Palladium's Wolfen were extracted from or the world is simply the first place where wolfen from either Palladium or some other dimension/world were rifted into the3Gs-verse for the first time. Could go either way.]

The description of Motherhome, the Wulfen home world, in DB2 says that historians believe the wulfen, were rifted there centuries ago and then developed technology but no dates are given and the wulfen are completely left out of the timeline in DB13.

If the wolfen/wulfen were created by someone, like the elves, then what of coyles and kankoran. But if they evolved then the 3 races make sense as coming from the same place. There is no mention, one way or the other, about Coyles and Kankoran being in 3 galaxies but that kind of means they are not there.

CB1 revised talks about the wolfen/wulfen origins in the description but makes it sound more like the wolfen, and again by extension coyles and kankoran, could come from the 3 galaxies but more likely come from Palladium or some third location we have yet seen. I personally like the idea of them coming from Motherhome adn that the coyles and kankoran were part of the Wulfen Empire and I have Coyles largely still serving the dark tribe Wulfen of the TGE while the Kankoran, once used as slaves, are now mostly on Motherhome leaving peacefully in nature.

Again this is sort of the issue of monoculture in PF and PW. All 3 races speak wolfen instead of having multiple languages of their own. Now if all 3 races come from one world that we don't know then a group goes through to PF and then a group of Wolfen go from PF to Motherhome you could see them speaking just one language I guess.

- Trade-04 is is clearly based on English/American. It has evolved enough to be different, however, with the addition of a number of technical terms, slang and foreign words (some of which are similar to other Earth languages like French, Chinese, Russian and Spanish). [Strongly implying the humans from 3Gs were rifted from one among many parallel Earths]

This was why I created the old Teran languages that I did. I figured on Tera Prime these languages were spoken and then as they moved to the stars they just blended into Trade 4.

- Trade-05 uses hisses, whistles and clicks for most words. It is favored by many reptilian and insectoid races. Humans and other air breathers can understand and learn Trade Five at no penalty, although they will retain a distinguishable "accent" that separates them from the races for which the language was originally created. Is commonly used by the kreeghor and seljuk races, and is usually the second language of the draconids. [that is hilarious on many levels because a crapload of animal species from insects to reptiles, mammals and birds actually hiss - in none of them it's supposed to communicate something beside "back off!!!" ]

- Trade-06 is an artificial "universal language" made to maximize communication between the multiple varied species of the 3G by the CCW linguists, while mostly vocal it also has a strong sign language complementary component too.

Nice of the CCW's part and definitely makes sense considering the morass of star-nations that they are.

Lots of sci-fi have attempts at universal languages. Interlac in Babylon 5 comes to mind. Languages that are designed to be easily translated and can be communicated through a variety of means but just not sure how widely used it is or if it is a niche thing used by academics and diplomats but not widely known outside that. Sort of like Technocan on Rifts Earth.

In my Phase World game I have Trade languages, regional languages, then planetary languages. This allows for Dragonese and Spluggorthian, Atlantian languages as they are spoken in a sector of space and not necessarily galaxy wide. I have my players choose one or two languages that are native to the sector and then go from there.

This would have been a superior approach and it's what we see in Aliens Unlimited. In the Galaxy Guide we learn that each quadrant of the galaxy has a trade language of sorts but each alien race has several languages of their own as well. One quadrant has 2 sort of criminal code languages and the Atorian Quadrant has an imperial language.

I think I may start running PW languages as being more galactic and regional. Trade 1 would be PW itself as well as sections of Cork and TC. Dragonese would be Anvil. Splugorth language for their areas, mayabe a Kreeghor Imperial language for their space and Trade 6 might work for CCW space.

Each species may have their own common language and several traditional and even more ancient languages.

[ShadowLogan]

Also, do the major races still use there native language(s)? Very few are even mentioned and almost none are listed as actual OCC or RCC skills. The Noro OCCs have no listed language, in a few places we see the "elf" language or the "dwarf" language or "kreeghor" in descriptions but not as listed skills, the Oni RCCs have a language listed but they are the exception.

I think all the races likely still use their native languages on their homeworld/systems (and have multiple languages or at least dialects). What we see in the game though is the people expect to interact with "foreigners" are the ones presented. As to why no "native" languages are listed at times, I think it was a product of the time where we are to assume everyone had a native language it just wasn't listed (some early Rifts Book classes suffer from this, including on occasion skill per-requisites not being met in the OCC package).

It should be noted that even as far back as DB2 it is stated "There are over 100,000 major languages and almost a hundred times as many dialects and variations among the races of the Three Galaxies." (pg52, start of Languages). So, there is plenty of room for additional languages (/dialects) to be introduced that have not been formalized (ie identified in text) for the setting.

I know I complied a list of languages in the various Palladium RPG books I had access to (an incomplete library) and there where examples of races that did not have a native language listed (x75, more than the non-human languages listed actually), there are some that even mentioned races adopting a new language (x12 examples, almost all from WB30), telepathic languages (x3, not counting Trade2) and interestingly some NPC descriptions add to the languages even though not listed "properly" elsewhere (Blind Warrior Women get a "native" Alteran via Mercenaries for example, though IINM WB30 gives them something else suggesting they "adopted" a new "native").

In a realistic setting each planet would have hundreds of languages but that can be a problem for a 1 hour show

Are we sure of that? I mean we only have a sample size of x1 planet and 1x species to cite for what could be realistic. (NOTE: I don't disagree with you per say, but I am acknowledging the sample size).

[SolCannibal]

- Trade-03 is indeed the same wolfen language as in PF, slightly streamlined to reduce the guttural and growling elements common to the "classical" Wolfen language, but is otherwise identical. [So either Motherhome is the world Palladium's Wolfen were extracted from or the world is simply the first place where wolfen from either Palladium or some other dimension/world were rifted into the3Gs-verse for the first time. Could go either way.]

The description of Motherhome, the Wulfen home world, in DB2 says that historians believe the wulfen, were rifted there centuries ago and then developed technology but no dates are given and the wulfen are completely left out of the timeline in DB13.

Yes, that was something of a bizarre absence indeed, though based on the blurbs we get in DB2 it's implied the Wolfen Empire was one of the first nations to be "absorbed through diplomacy" into the TGE as they came to understand that not everything could be solved by conquest & genocide and supposed to happen some not clearly defined time before the formation of the CCW, that happens to possess a large number of exile populations and fringe worlds of the former Wulfen Empire among its foundation members.

So sometime between 5,000 years ago, when the Kreeghor overthrow their Splugorthian masters and began the foundations of their empire and 700 years ago, when the Human Alliance meets with, and allies itself to, the Noro and a number of Wulfen clans/tribes marking the beginning of the Consortium of Civilized Worlds (CCW). Also when the First Great War begins, with the Transgalactic Empire and "Dark Tribe" Wulfen on one side, and the Human/Noro/Loyalist Wulfen on the other. A conflict that would only be fully ended 200 years later, with the Lanator Accords.

So, yeah. Some of the info is there, but the writers could have done a more thorough work of cross-checking things to get a more clearly presented timeline and backstory to the reader compiled in one place for reference.

If the wolfen/wulfen were created by someone, like the elves, then what of coyles and kankoran. But if they evolved then the 3 races make sense as coming from the same place. There is no mention, one way or the other, about Coyles and Kankoran being in 3 galaxies but that kind of means they are not there.

CB1 revised talks about the wolfen/wulfen origins in the description but makes it sound more like the wolfen, and again by extension coyles and kankoran, could come from the 3 galaxies but more likely come from Palladium or some third location we have yet seen. I personally like the idea of them coming from Motherhome adn that the coyles and kankoran were part of the Wulfen Empire and I have Coyles largely still serving the dark tribe Wulfen of the TGE while the Kankoran, once used as slaves, are now mostly on Motherhome leaving peacefully in nature.

While i myself - in part due to the crazy timescales in PF's chronology - prefer to keep Motherhome separate from wherever the Wolfen and related races actually orginate from, your idea of the Coyles and Kankorans existing as subcultures or tribes within the greater whole of the "Wulfen society" is definitely fine and can make for great fun too. Your take of the Kankoran in particular reminds me somewhat of Exodite Eldar in WH40K.

Again this is sort of the issue of monoculture in PF and PW. All 3 races speak wolfen instead of having multiple languages of their own. Now if all 3 races come from one world that we don't know then a group goes through to PF and then a group of Wolfen go from PF to Motherhome you could see them speaking just one language I guess.

Hehe, groups of Wolfen that for some reason or other actually spoke one or more of the PF languages instead, be it on the Three Galaxies or the world of Palladium itself, would be perfectly fine and legit depending on circunstances, imho.

- Trade-04 is is clearly based on English/American. It has evolved enough to be different, however, with the addition of a number of technical terms, slang and foreign words (some of which are similar to other Earth languages like French, Chinese, Russian and Spanish). [Strongly implying the humans from 3Gs were rifted from one among many parallel Earths]

This was why I created the old Teran languages that I did. I figured on Tera Prime these languages were spoken and then as they moved to the stars they just blended into Trade 4.

Truth be told, when GMing i've used far more of a mashup of the AU: GG with TMNT's Guide to the Universe for my space opera needs (specially for the ease of crossover potential with HU), but i'd probably do something like that with Terra Prime and other among the older Human Alliance worlds if i ever seriously tackled that part of the 3 Galaxies.


As an aside, poor Trade-05 gets no comentary or love - some day i'll make a felinoid race with it for main language, just because cats are great at hissing too.
They will also bring the rediscovery that it's a very effective language for cursing, mundane or arcane.

- Trade-06 is an artificial "universal language" made to maximize communication between the multiple varied species of the 3G by the CCW linguists, while mostly vocal it also has a strong sign language complementary component too.

Nice of the CCW's part and definitely makes sense considering the morass of star-nations that they are.

Lots of sci-fi have attempts at universal languages. Interlac in Babylon 5 comes to mind. Languages that are designed to be easily translated and can be communicated through a variety of means but just not sure how widely used it is or if it is a niche thing used by academics and diplomats but not widely known outside that. Sort of like Technocan on Rifts Earth.

True, but not even among sci-fi series many of them remember to adress such issue, so it's a nice touch of the game to actually bring it up at least.