Zentradi strength

[3 Blue Eyes]

For RPG purposes, I've never liked the formula and multiplier palladium used and I have my own ideas. I was wondering what others thought on zentradi strength.

I realize there's probably no artwork of zentradi bench pressing weights so this will be more of a question on what others think.

In regular military you learn how to do a fireman's carry, while we don't see zentradi carrying their wounded do you think they could?

For more detail, can a zentradi pick up another wounded zentradi of similar weight and height and put him or her over their shoulder? (lift)

Then, can that zentradi run or move a distance with a zentradi, in a fireman's carry? (carry)

[ShadowLogan]

1E Zent is PSx100 for a score, and then the carry limit would be PSx50 in lbs (since it would be 300min) and weight is x100 (in lbs) form their human size.

Lets say they have an average weight at human size of 180lbs, or 18,000lbs for Male (140lbs/14,000lbs if female)

An average PS of 3d6+4 = 15 at human size, 1500 at giant size for a carry capacity of 75,000lbs for a male (PS of 10 for female, 1,000 giant size at a carry capacity of 50,000lbs).

2E Zentreadi use a different approach, PS x600 at giant size. Here there is an issue with carry, without using skills to beef up PS (but rolling max on attribute) ... Now there are combinations of castes that can carry another Zentreadi, but there are also combinations of castes that don't. Carry capacity is without being encumbered IINM, so if go over you'd be "encumbered" and have a slower speed though the ratio of encumbrance to loss in speed isn't spelled out.

[taalismn]

2E Zentreadi use a different approach, PS x600 at giant size. Here there is an issue with carry, without using skills to beef up PS (but rolling max on attribute) ... Now there are combinations of castes that can carry another Zentreadi, but there are also combinations of castes that don't. Carry capacity is without being encumbered IINM, so if go over you'd be "encumbered" and have a slower speed though the ratio of encumbrance to loss in speed isn't spelled out.

This is why Exedore never did the 'confidence catch' exercise with Breetai....

[3 Blue Eyes]

This is why Exedore never did the 'confidence catch' exercise with Breetai....

Now there are combinations of castes that can carry another Zentreadi, but there are also combinations of castes that don't. 

I feel like that falls under what I was asking, yes, with similar height and weight.

Thank you.

How about distance/time. I don't have any palladium books in front of me at the moment but if a zentradi was carrying a wounded fellow, do you think he'd could carry him twice as long as a human could? Three times as long? 10 times as long?

I feel that the time carrying would be very similar, human solder vs zentradi solder, and they would tire out about the same time.

That's just my opinion, what do others think?

[3 Blue Eyes]

Now there are combinations of castes that can carry another Zentreadi, but there are also combinations of castes that don't.

This is why Exedore never did the 'confidence catch' exercise with Breetai....

I feel like that, somewhat, answers my question. It can depend on height and weight differences. Thank you.

At this point how about carrying another Zentreadi.

If a human solider was carrying another soldier vs a Zentreadi soldier carrying a wounded Zentreadi, would the Zentreadi be able to carry him twice as long? 5 times as long? 10 times as long?

I feel the human and Zentreadi soldiers would tire out about the same time.

How about you, any thoughts?

[ShadowLogan]

This is why Exedore never did the 'confidence catch' exercise with Breetai....

Yeah, but that one-time Breetai did it Exedore was carrying that (waist to chin) stack of important and breakable material.

*In a more serious angle, I would think that "catch" type is different than the carry being considered. That is closer to a "lift" under the rules I would think (which is supposed to be x2 what you can carry, which IIRC the spreadsheet which I did not save that should allow it, unless certain PS type/zones don't use that)*

How about distance/time. I don't have any palladium books in front of me at the moment but if a zentradi was carrying a wounded fellow, do you think he'd could carry him twice as long as a human could? Three times as long? 10 times as long?

Offhand I don't recall any over encumbered rules per say for characters (mecha across the megaverse yes). You might consider treating the situation as using the Lift Rate Duration based on PE (which is 3sec per PE point, though some types of PE might offer better endurance) for simplicity/quickness.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

What's funny is the Bioroid should ABSOLUTELY have 1E-style Zentraedi strength. We SEE Zor Prime's Commander Bioroid lift Dana's 26.4 metric ton Veritech Hovertank OFF THE GROUND as well as crush the armor while doing so.

[ShadowLogan]

What's funny is the Bioroid should ABSOLUTELY have 1E-style Zentraedi strength. We SEE Zor Prime's Commander Bioroid lift Dana's 26.4 metric ton Veritech Hovertank OFF THE GROUND as well as crush the armor while doing so.

I agree the Mecha PS is wonky in 2E, 1E's approach of listing actual amounts instead of defaulting to the PS cal. mentality works better. I find it (dark) funny that when discussing the Zentreadi PS and how a score of 60 would allow them to toss around a VF-1 (in 2E) but getting to that PS score isn't easy.

[eliakon]

Welcome to the Squate/Cube law problem or "why there are not fifty foot tall ants in the real world"
Once you decide you *want* fifty foot tall whatevers and discard that, then you need to decide how to handle strength and weight now that your into novel physics

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Welcome to the Squate/Cube law problem or "why there are not fifty foot tall ants in the real world"
Once you decide you *want* fifty foot tall whatevers and discard that, then you need to decide how to handle strength and weight now that your into novel physics

That's also how we ended up with the cockamamie claim that The Macross Saga mecha have more/better armor than mecha of The Masters War. People apparently cannot grasp that the CBH-4 Salamander (which is designed for Close Quarters Combat), for example, weighs only 9 metric tons less than the MBR-04-Mk.VI Tomahawk, yet is 1/8th the volume and doesn't have a bunch of expendable weapons systems crammed into its hull. Yet, the Salamander (which represents ~20yrs technological innovation on the Tomahawk) has only 2/3rds the armor of the larger Destroid. This despite the absolute fact the Tomahawk is NOT designed for CQB, but mid-range combat. And that's not even getting into the Mass Budget issues the Tomahawk would have due to Galileo's Square Cube Law.

The idea the Queadlunn-Rau, which stands 16.75m tall at the shoulder and weighs in at a eye-watering 32.5 metric tons DRY (and that doesn't even count the pilot, using Miriya as an example adds another 6.25 metric tons, let alone the ordnance), but has over twice the armor capacity of the 11.3 metric ton Bioroid Soldier that stands 6.4m tall. Yet somehow its supposed to make sense that a mecha that was designed for disposable giant clone troops (granted, elite ones) are tougher than the equivalent of the Praetorian Guard forces to the people that created and utilize Robotechnology that dwarfs/dominates every other civilization in the extended universe (with the possible exception of The Haydonites).

I'm absolutely sick of all the moronic claims of imbeciles that infest the game nowadays that let their aesthetic biases make asinine claims that anyone with half a brain left in their skull would see is wrong. Every idiot that says the Valkyrie would dominate against the Bioroids in combat is another person that didn't pay an ounce of attention to the show.

[green.nova343]

I had to do some digging between TSC, RUE, & the Macross Sourcebook for the 2E versions. This is what I found:

• Normal exertion is "run at an even pace (half speed) for 0.5 miles/0.8km per PE point without fatigue", 1/3 that if moving at full speed.
• Speed is obviously based on the SPD attribute.
• Swimming speed is based on PS (PSx3 yards/m per melee), with the limit of 1 minute per PE point before getting fatigued.
• Surface swimming is said to be like land movement, but no explanation of what that means.
• SCUBA is only at PSx2 yards/m per melee, but you can swim deeper
• Carrying is PS x600 for full-sized, & apparently unlimited; lifting is PS x1000, for 30 seconds per PE point
• Micronized, their PS & PE are halved, but they're treated as "augmented" PS. Augmented is equivalent to cyborg/Juicer PS (or the HU-type of Extraordinary PS), so I guess that would be effectively PS x50 for carrying (PS x100 / 2) & PS x100 for lifting (PS x 200 / 2), & can still deadlift for 30 seconds per adjusted PE.
• Unfortunately, nothing is listed about how fast they move when full-size.
• Supernatural PS, by the way, can deadlift for 1 minute per PE point.

Zentraedi Auxiliary Specialists are the weakest, & have different stats for male/female. Going as low as possible, I'll assume base PS 18/16, PE 20/18, SPD 14/16. That means they can carry 10,800/9,600lbs (4.90/4.35 tons), or can deadlift 18,000/16,000lbs (8.16/7.26 tons) for 10/9 minutes when full-sized; if Micronized, it drops to 450/400lbs (204/181kg) carry capacity, deadlifting 900/800lbs (408/363kg) for 5/4.5 minutes. In contrast, a human with those stats could only carry 360/320lbs (163/145kg), or lift 720lbs/640lbs (327/290kg)...but not sure for how long.

It seems like we're missing some stuff, so I would suggest the following:

• "Normal" human level: as listed above, deadlifting is 15 seconds per PE point
• "Augmented: lifting is essentially x5 normal human, deadlifting is 30 seconds per PE point, other movement is double normal limits
• Superhuman: akin to robotic, essentially x10 human, deadlifting is 45 seconds per PE point, other movement is triple normal limits
• Supernatural: x15 human, deadlifting is 1 minute per PE point, other movement is quadruple normal limits

So the human listed above would also be limited to 5/4.5 minutes, but not be able to lift as much as the Zentraedi. I would recommend that full-size Zentraedi movement be their SPD x10, no change for Micronized size. So the full-size Zent could run at SPD 140/160 (95.4/109.1MPH or 153.6/175.6 km/h), with half-pace being SPD 70/80 (47.7/54.5MPH or 76.8/87.8 km/h), half that if carrying (SPD 35/40, 23.9/27.3 MPH or 38.4/43.9 km/h). Full-sized, they could cross 100/90 miles (160.9/144.8km) at half-pace before being fatigued, or sprint across 33.3/30 miles (53.7/48.3km); half those if carrying. Micronized, sprint would be 9.5/10.9MPH (15.4/17.6 km/h), half-pace 4.8/5.5MPH (7.7/8.8 km/h), quarter-pace 2.4/2.7 MPH (3.8/4.4 km/h), but they can walk 10/9 miles (16.1/14.4km) or sprint 3.3/3 miles (5.4/4.8km) until fatigued, half that if carrying.