Star elves and Dwarf Guildmasters

[SirLitimus]

Outside of DB05, has anyone produced any details of either races? Homeworlds, government composition, military, notable figures, etc?

Or am I about to begin a failed Rifter project of my own?

[Furoan]

So, just to put in the expected other Sourcebooks.

Fleets of the Three Galaxies (Dimension Book 13) have a writeup of the Warcraft fleet, including Naval Ranks. While its focused upon the Warcraft as a whole, there's some detail about the different kinds of ships that the Dwarves and the Elves constructed.

Dimension Book 3 (Rifts Sourcebook) has a brief write-up of Inglix the Mad, one of the founding Dwarven Guildmasters, but one who is not looked upon fondly because he's suspected of preforming horrible experiments and dabbling in dark magic.

Dimension Book 5 (Three Galaxies) has a number of planets in the UWW I believe. You have already mentioned the Anvil Galaxy sourcebook which does the best of highlighting some notable figures such as the King.

Dimension Outbreak (Dimension Book 12) has a few UWW figures scatted throughout it, such as the Dwarf on Centre in Spaceland who sells some really good ale etc, but not real writeup of the top-end figures.

There is probably more in the Rifter somewhere but I don't have a handy index to hunt through it.

[SolCannibal]

So, just to put in the expected other Sourcebooks.

Fleets of the Three Galaxies (Dimension Book 13) have a writeup of the Warcraft fleet, including Naval Ranks. While its focused upon the Warcraft as a whole, there's some detail about the different kinds of ships that the Dwarves and the Elves constructed.

Are you sure of that name? I honestly can't remember any reference to such particular fleet in that book - all about the Warlock Navy & Warlock Marines.

The part on the UWW also happens to give us a rough timeline of sorts of the history of the 3 Galaxies from the War against the Dominators onwards, beside some of the leading figures to rise from the war against Splugorth Lord Yythcryss that would lead into the actual foundation of the UWW, such as High King Silverlight of the Star Elves and Master Smith Hacori Darksteel of the Anvil Dwarves.

There's also mention of Nomaijorb, an obscure dialect developed ages ago during the war against Yythcryss as a sort of lingua franca to assist communications between the varied worlds of the Union. Its use has waned over the years, but the Warlock Marines keep it around as a secret language, and to anyone outside of the UWW it sounds like gibberish (Also, an IC-excuse for the funky hodge-podge of german, norse & whatever going on in the titles of the Navy, i guess).

Dimension Book 3 (Rifts Sourcebook) has a brief write-up of Inglix the Mad, one of the founding Dwarven Guildmasters, but one who is not looked upon fondly because he's suspected of preforming horrible experiments and dabbling in dark magic.

Phaseworld Sourcebook. It also mentions Inglix's home in Ironring, an asteroid-eater planetoid that is considered an independent member world with its own laws, plus rumours of a past association with the godling Thraxus in Center. In fact the "minions" section of his write-up gives us numbers for both its population (3 million) and stationed troops (200.000).

Dimension Book 5 (Three Galaxies) has a number of planets in the UWW I believe. You have already mentioned the Anvil Galaxy sourcebook which does the best of highlighting some notable figures such as the King.

Three Galaxies is Dimension Book 6. Dimension Book 5 is Anvil Galaxy. Which one did you mean (though there might be info on both, to be fair)?


Aditionally, Dimension Book 14 (Thundercloud Galaxy) explores once more the War against the Dominators, the Star Elves and mentions their term for themselves, Astralfein, among other things i forget.

[Furoan]

Apologies, I didn't mean warcraft but WARLOCK, must have misspelled or had spellcheck eat it.

Both Dimension Book 5 and Dimension Book 6 have information about the UWW.

Dimension Book 5 (Anvil Galaxy) has some information on the founding planets of the UWW, but Dimension Book 6 has some good writeups of individual planets.

[SolCannibal]

Apologies, I didn't mean warcraft but WARLOCK, must have misspelled or had spellcheck eat it.

It happens, and honestly not a problem at all - i fully intend to make "Warcraft Fleet" into an actual battlegroup of the Warlock Navy, maybe guarding the Azeroth, Lordaeron, Northrend & Kalimdor sectors, next time i GM a Phaseworld game.

edit: forgot about Khaz Modan. Since the wiki itself seems unsure, calling it subcontinent & continent both, guess i'll make it a borderline separatist region of either Azeroth or Lordaeron, maybe one that crosses sector lines, ergo the polemic. lore-building ahoy!

Both Dimension Book 5 and Dimension Book 6 have information about the UWW.

Dimension Book 5 (Anvil Galaxy) has some information on the founding planets of the UWW, but Dimension Book 6 has some good writeups of individual planets.

Ergo my doubt. But yeah, both books should be worth checking for reference material to mine.

[SolCannibal]

Outside of DB05, has anyone produced any details of either races? Homeworlds, government composition, military, notable figures, etc?

Or am I about to begin a failed Rifter project of my own?

So SirLitimus, how doth your plans for Knive-ears & Shorties of the UWW be going so far?

[SirLitimus]

Almost no progress. I started a excel sheet on a few O.C.C. ideas and created a rough draft of a small elven kingdom. Then...it all stopped for months. Now, I feel like being creative again.

[SolCannibal]

Almost no progress. I started a excel sheet on a few O.C.C. ideas and created a rough draft of a small elven kingdom. Then...it all stopped for months. Now, I feel like being creative again.

These things happen. I have a folder with literal dozens of unfinished star nations, pirate groups, nomad fleets and other stuff for Phaseworld.

Good to know you're feeling in a mood to mess with those ideas once more.


One more thing.... the UWW as portrayed in the books seem to be something of a loose collective of star nations, not unlike the EU in some ways, where its many members while partaking on trade, exchanges of magical knowledge, economical support of a number of transnational support organizations and so on, can still be quite autonomous and independent from each other in laws, government, culture and so on. Member worlds may even war on each other as long as it doesn't threaten the union as a whole.

What is also a very roundabout way to point out that race and star nation are not mutually exclusive, and for every Dwarf that belongs to the Guildmasters there will be a dozen others - MDC, SDC, etc - that belong to wholy separate worlds, kingdoms & etc, same goes for the elves, humans, ratlings, minotaurs and so on, not to mention those with quite mixed populations.

Even more so when one considers the UWW has warred with, defeated and liberated a number of worlds belonging to Splugorth dominions since the conflict that led to its founding a number of millenia past.

[taalismn]

Almost no progress. I started a excel sheet on a few O.C.C. ideas and created a rough draft of a small elven kingdom. Then...it all stopped for months. Now, I feel like being creative again.

These things happen. I have a folder with literal dozens of unfinished star nations, pirate groups, nomad fleets and other stuff for Phaseworld.

Good to know you're feeling in a mood to mess with those ideas once more.

Likewise...I have a dozen kingdoms in various stages of write-up, some decades old) that I revisit as the Muse hits...often something somebody else posts or something new I encounter provides the keystone to bridge some mental hurdle or break a mental block that prevented the write-up from continuing..sometimes it then rushes to completion.

So keep your old files and periodically look at them...they may be closer to completion than you think, or they may be just what you need to finish a newer project.

(Of course, looking back at previous posts often spawns a few dozen other seedlings that go into their own dormancy in my files, so I never get ahead on the 'work')

[Warshield73]

It is relatively easy to create stuff for our own games because we can fill in the blanks ourselves. Trying to write for others is so much harder because you have spell everything out and you can't just fix things on the fly.

Phase World is made worse because the space ships, FTL, sensors and combat are all broken. Add to that how truly incompatible the stats are across all the different titles. We need the basics laid out and then people can build on it.

If we get a universal stat system for ships, good descriptions for ships, a basic order of battle and then a few well done star systems then it would be a lot easier to make supplemental materials. Think about it, we don't even have a description of the system phase world is in. We know phase world, red star and one gas giant they dump trash to and that's it so the whole setting needs a page one rewrite or at the very least a serious revision.

Likewise...I have a dozen kingdoms in various stages of write-up, some decades old) that I revisit as the Muse hits...often something somebody else posts or something new I encounter provides the keystone to bridge some mental hurdle or break a mental block that prevented the write-up from continuing..sometimes it then rushes to completion.

So keep your old files and periodically look at them...they may be closer to completion than you think, or they may be just what you need to finish a newer project.

(Of course, looking back at previous posts often spawns a few dozen other seedlings that go into their own dormancy in my files, so I never get ahead on the 'work')

Agreed, just because you don't finish something on the first attempt doesn't mean you can't create it later or let it serve as inspiration for a completely different project down the road.

[taalismn]

It is relatively easy to create stuff for our own games because we can fill in the blanks ourselves.

Hey, do you know how hard it is to come up with things to say about GAS GIANTS?

And I may have to just devote an entire list to 'Exotics'( solar and planetary) just to make it easier for me to fill random rolls that come up with an 'exotic'.

[Warshield73]

It is relatively easy to create stuff for our own games because we can fill in the blanks ourselves.

Hey, do you know how hard it is to come up with things to say about GAS GIANTS?

Yeah this is sort of my point. If we had a few well detailed star systems it would be easier to populate the rest of the systems.

And I may have to just devote an entire list to 'Exotics'( solar and planetary) just to make it easier for me to fill random rolls that come up with an 'exotic'.

If you do don't forget to say what they might be used for.

[taalismn]

If you do don't forget to say what they might be used for.

Plug and play oddities like giant forcefields filled with earth-sized spheres of pure metals, or cosmic 'echo points'.

[SolCannibal]

Speaking of sparse, minimalist descriptions, let me explore something straight out of DB2.

The United Worlds of Warlock
Population Breakdown: 500 billion (estimated) [400 billion of which are in the Anvil Galaxy, according to DB5]
Elves 20% (Star Elves, according to DB5: Anvil Galaxy)
Humans 15%
Wulfen 15%
Dwarves 15% (Dwarven Guildmasters, according to DB5: Anvil Galaxy)
Minotaurs 6% (Space Minotaurs, according to DB5: Anvil Galaxy)
Ratlings 6% (Ratanoids 7%, according to DB5: Anvil Galaxy)
Others 23% (includes supernatural beings like demons and Elementals, as well as Faeries, dragons, and dozens of other races)
[22%, according to DB5: Anvil Galaxy]

With some bits from Anvil Galaxy's expanded write-up on the UWW, for comparison and contrast.

Firstly, the specification that 4/5 of the UWW's population may be found in the Anvil Galaxy is good in that it sets up a "core area" while leaving lots of room (1/5 of the UWW's 500 billion citizens) for GMs & players to come up with respectable member-nations located on Corkscrew, Thundercloud - or outdimension, for that matter.

Now speaking of the population breakdown proper, the DB5 writers decided to go from "straight out of PF" into versions of their own for some of the core races with the Star Elves, Anvil Dwarves (Guildmasters), Space Minotaurs - all of whom get new write-ups as MDC minor supernatural beings, with Star Elves, Anvil Dwarves theorized as possible descendants of Asgardian elves and dwarves, while in the Space Minotaurs' case (the existence of a number of SDC sapient bovine-like species is mentioned) though some suggest they might be creations of the Gene-Tech or other "outside force" no one really knows for sure and could be evolved from some unknown natural circunstances.

(Meanwhile Ratanoids are just Ratlings with a tweaked name and seeds of backstory, much like the Wolfen/Wulfen reskin of DB2. No power-ups sorry)

While i'm quite ok with the Star Elves, Anvil Dwarves & Space Minotaurs as optional RCCs for UWW natives, saying all elves, dwarves & minotaurs in the UWW belong to them.... hell, no.

For starters because it completely devalues having the mention of "supernatural beings like demons, Elementals, as well as Faeries, dragons and other races" in the "Other" entry if it were so.
For another, you lose a lot in potential variety by making everybody the same, instead of having a whole range of elves, dwarves or minotaur populations that can go from "absolutely mundane, pretty much same as their PF/Rifts equivalents but with better gear" to "could go mano a mano against the average lesser infernal from Hades or Dyval", to a whole range of mid-tiers in between those extremes.

Speaking of which, long before there was the digital empire that is the Warcraft franchise, there was in CB1 a mischievous race of little faerie spirits are faeries called Night Elves. Different size (6 inches) and not quite the same look (dark grey-green complexion, dark brown or black hair and sport luminous blue, gossamer wings), but could make a nice springboard for bamboozling one's own player group setting expectations too.


And one more thing....

The society of the UWW is even more diverse and heterogeneous than the one of the Consortium. Almost every single planet has its own culture, customs and social classes. The main distinction in the United Worlds is that of magic-users and "mundanes." About 70% of the member worlds use some sort of magic or combinations of mystic disciplines as their primary form of technology. The rest are those "mundanes" who rely mostly on science and conventional technology.

So, about 30% of the member worlds, while still having comparatively easier acess to TW and magical resources, are still conventionally technological worlds that wouldn't look too out of place in the CWW, TGE or as a number of independeint star-nations. Rhililh, Home of lhe Gear is far from alone.

[taalismn]

So, about 30% of the member worlds, while still having comparatively easier acess to TW and magical resources, are still conventionally technological worlds that wouldn't look too out of place in the CWW, TGE or as a number of independeint star-nations. Rhililh, Home of lhe Gear is far from alone.

I'm reflecting that in my write-up on Rhilith...and the ten 'mundane' planets that ganged up on it.
There are those worlds bordering the UWW that lack magic, or reject magic, but don't have the tech-based economies(or location) to prosper like Rhilith.

So lots of 'poor' (relatively speaking) elves, dwarves, and other traditionally 'magic' Tolkienesque folk who either lack magic or reject it.

[SolCannibal]

So, about 30% of the member worlds, while still having comparatively easier acess to TW and magical resources, are still conventionally technological worlds that wouldn't look too out of place in the CWW, TGE or as a number of independeint star-nations. Rhililh, Home of lhe Gear is far from alone.

I'm reflecting that in my write-up on Rhilith...and the ten 'mundane' planets that ganged up on it.
There are those worlds bordering the UWW that lack magic, or reject magic, but don't have the tech-based economies(or location) to prosper like Rhilith.

Lots of places to go with that - Yoria in particular did have a community of spellcasters sizable enough to a source of class/ethnic conflict, the text leaves it quite dubious if they might count as part of the elites or simply a middle class groups sizable enough to be scapegoated for a number of local ills, justifiably or not, by factions high or low. At least until the borderline trainwreck of the Yorian Genocide.

That ironically the Rhilithian intervention might inadvertently defused in part by providing a "meddling outsider" to point out as "imperialist" or "instigator" in support of that one group everyone seemed to agree was to blame... for something or other.

Whoever took power in Yoria probably would have taken much longer to do so if the Rhilithians had not unintentionally painted themselves as "the eminence grise/illuminati" of sorts to a bunch of viscerally passionate factions by getting in the way of their violently prejudiced designs. Damn, Yoria went from "in the throes of genocidal civil war" to ''leader of an alliance of worlds against a common (perceived) enemy" in just a few decades possibly because of these unnamed demagogues' success in leveraging such a narrative of justification out of Rhilith's actions.

So lots of 'poor' (relatively speaking) elves, dwarves, and other traditionally 'magic' Tolkienesque folk who either lack magic or reject it.

Bearmen, Canine (Coyle or Kankoran) variants, Changelings, Goblins (Hobgolbins or Cobblers), Kobolds, Orcs, Ogres, Trolls, Centaurs, Eandroth, Grimbor, Gromek, Kinnie Ger, Lizardfolk, Maxpary, Minotaurs, Ratlings.... lots of options to mine or riff from and that is just with CB1's "Palladium section" instead of PF proper or modules like Land of Damned 1 & 2.

And it needs to be said - by the book itself, though the Rhilithians were not going to keel over without a fight but saw themselves as pretty much boned in that conflict before the Warlock Navy decided to join in. So while definitely more prosperous than its disgruntled neighbors, that only helped up to a point.


Ok, now back on an unrelated "random trivia grievance" side of things.... "Minotaur" as a race name really needs to go, since it makes zero sense in a context without greek myth/earth pop culture references. Taurine/Bovine people associated with other myths would use other names - Hathori/Apis among worshippers of the egyptian-themed Pantheon of Light, Galluim/Galluians for groups claiming descent or relation from Gallu demon bulls, maybe Molochim if one adds a cananite/punic/mesopotamian spin to that Gallu angle and so on.

(As an aside, decide to do a google search on Hathor due to doubts over religious/mythologic accuracy of her cow-headed portrayal in Rifts & PF books - ended up finding that i was wrong and right to be doubtful, so to speak, in that Hathor's imagery has a very wide spectrum of variety that goes from "literally cow-headed woman" to "human lady with a crown made of bovine horns holding a golden/solar disk" with a number of images mixing and matching such as "no horns but has cow ears" or "girl with horns" in between. Not to mention images or statues where she is represented as a literal cow. A species of bovine lycanthrope might be quite justified on account of that colorful iconography, imho)

Not to mention the option of just leaning on the good old everyday or scientific - Taurine, Oxlings/Oxoids, Cattlefolk, Bovine or some other variants. Plus, no reason one might not also insert yak, bison, wisent, banteng or gaur under that same "minotaur" package. Or water buffalo and some larger antelope to boot.

Anyway rant out.

[taalismn]

Lots of places to go with that - Yoria in particular did have a community of spellcasters sizable enough to a source of class/ethnic conflict, the text leaves it quite dubious if they might count as part of the elites or simply a middle class groups sizable enough to be scapegoated for a number of local ills, justifiably or not, by factions high or low. At least until the borderline trainwreck of the Yorian Genocide.

That ironically the Rhilithian intervention might inadvertently defused in part by providing a "meddling outsider" to point out as "imperialist" or "instigator" in support of that one group everyone seemed to agree was to blame... for something or other.

Whoever took power in Yoria probably would have taken much longer to do so if the Rhilithians had not unintentionally painted themselves as "the eminence grise/illuminati" of sorts to a bunch of viscerally passionate factions by getting in the way of their violently prejudiced designs. Damn, Yoria went from "in the throes of genocidal civil war" to ''leader of an alliance of worlds against a common (perceived) enemy" in just a few decades possibly because of these unnamed demagogues' success in leveraging such a narrative of justification out of Rhilith's actions.

You have inadvertently mirrored many of my thoughts in my most recent post on Rhilith and the Decidan Compact arrayed against it. You bugged my computer or something?

[SolCannibal]

Lots of places to go with that - Yoria in particular did have a community of spellcasters sizable enough to a source of class/ethnic conflict, the text leaves it quite dubious if they might count as part of the elites or simply a middle class groups sizable enough to be scapegoated for a number of local ills, justifiably or not, by factions high or low. At least until the borderline trainwreck of the Yorian Genocide.

That ironically the Rhilithian intervention might inadvertently defused in part by providing a "meddling outsider" to point out as "imperialist" or "instigator" in support of that one group everyone seemed to agree was to blame... for something or other.

Whoever took power in Yoria probably would have taken much longer to do so if the Rhilithians had not unintentionally painted themselves as "the eminence grise/illuminati" of sorts to a bunch of viscerally passionate factions by getting in the way of their violently prejudiced designs. Damn, Yoria went from "in the throes of genocidal civil war" to ''leader of an alliance of worlds against a common (perceived) enemy" in just a few decades possibly because of these unnamed demagogues' success in leveraging such a narrative of justification out of Rhilith's actions.

You have inadvertently mirrored many of my thoughts in my most recent post on Rhilith and the Decidan Compact arrayed against it. You bugged my computer or something?

Only bugs i have are the ones prone to interrupting the browser or other functions of my own machine, utterly unrelated.

[taalismn]

Almost no progress. I started a excel sheet on a few O.C.C. ideas and created a rough draft of a small elven kingdom. Then...it all stopped for months. Now, I feel like being creative again.

It is to be hoped that if and when you complete this, or get it to a sufficiently advanced state, that you will feel free to share it with the rest of us comsogeopoltiicians.

[SolCannibal]

Almost no progress. I started a excel sheet on a few O.C.C. ideas and created a rough draft of a small elven kingdom. Then...it all stopped for months. Now, I feel like being creative again.

If you don't mind my nosiness, let me throw a few sort of related questions:

- Are those O.C.C.s somehow connected to the workings or particularities of this elven kingdom or meant to be more "UWW-general", so to speak?
- Do any magic user O.C.C.s from either PF, Rifts - or another setting of your preference - play a major role in the kingdom's magical infrastructure?
- What is their prefered mode of worldtrotting, rifts & portal-hopping or travel by some form of spaceship (or void beast)?
- How much of their home star system have they explored, by astral projection, drone/golems or physical visitation?
- Does the kingdom oversee one planet or several? Are their possessions in the same star system or spread across several colonies/protectorates?

Some delving in details to, hopefully, help stir up those creative juices.

Also, if you're in the mood for some dice-rolling and tables, there might be some bits & pieces of interest to you here.