Battle Fury Wilk's Laser Sword?

[Aermas]

Where does the extra damage come from when enchanting a sword to be a Battle Fury Blade? Could something like a Wilk's Laser Sword gain the same or better benefit?

[taalismn]

Okay, first off where does Battle Fury come from? I find no spell matching that name.

[Curbludgeon]

Battle Fury Blades are found in WB16 Federation of Magic revised pp 119-120, or Rifts Book of Magic pg 317. The spells involved in their creation are Ensorcel, Speed Weapon, Power Weapon, Invincible Armor, and Enchant Weapon.

The extra damage comes from the Power Weapon spell, made permanent via the 1000 PPE version of Enchant Weapon. Note that spell's 2d4 permanent PPE expense. Also see the Deathbringer weapon in either text for an example of when such a weapon is made without Power Weapon. The Ensorcel spell is arguably a more awkward fit in these weapons, and perhaps represents something akin to a minor variant of rune magic.

[Orin J.]

Since the bonus pain is coming form an enchantment to the weapon and a Wilk's laser sword is, technically, not the weapon itself but simply emiting the beam that that functions as the weapon, i don't think this'd work.

At least, i wouldn't allow it, sine it opens up the "i wanna enchant my boom gun!" door by making modern projectiles and directed energy blasts "weapons" in the same logical path as swords and clubs for magicin' purposes

[Jefffar]

Is a bow or crossbow eligible for enchantment?

[taalismn]

Is a bow or crossbow eligible for enchantment?

Nope; Power Weapon doesn't work on projectile types, Speed Weapon doesn't work on anything other than melee weaponry.
Enchant Weapon can be cast on a limited number of arrows/bolts, though.

[Jefffar]

Okay, so some here are trying to define the laser sword as a very short ranged, ranged weapon while others are saying it should be a melee weapon.

[Orin J.]

Okay, so some here are trying to define the laser sword as a very short ranged, ranged weapon while others are saying it should be a melee weapon.

I am not defining it as a ranged weapon, i am defining it as an energy emitting device instead of a blade.

A Wilk's laser sword is a melee weapon in the same way a blowtorch is a melee weapon, the damage is not coming from the part you'd be enchanting but from the energy emitted by it when turned on. I want to be careful the enchantment is not read as "improves damage from the weapon regardless of the nature of how it causes said damage" here because that's a big ol' an of annoying worms.

[Curbludgeon]

To muddy things a bit further could a Vibro Weapon be eligible? There is a physical "blade" but any damage comes from a very short range field surrounding it. Arguably the physical blade never touches a target when the field is engaged, but that makes things like Vibro Chainsaws even more silly.

[Aermas]

Okay, so some here are trying to define the laser sword as a very short ranged, ranged weapon while others are saying it should be a melee weapon.

The books list it as a melee weapon.

[ShadowLogan]

Where does the extra damage come from when enchanting a sword to be a Battle Fury Blade? Could something like a Wilk's Laser Sword gain the same or better benefit?

An energy blade like a Wilk's Laser Sword/Knife or TW Flaming Sword/Lightblade (etc). I'd say no, they don't have a physical blade to enchant, even though they have physical hilts the blade is not physical. I think this is important since we don't know the "modifications" they TW has to make in order to turn the ordinary weapon into a BFB, there just may not be room on a "hilt" to do it (ex, what if you need to put mystical markings on the blade, how do you do that with a non-physical blade like a laser sword?)

You could do it with a Vibro-blade, though likely are "destroying" the Vibro-technology to install the TW modifications. Something like the natural MDC metals (like Kissenette, sp?, or similar materials). Could work though I don't think they'd result in a better damage output than using ordinary materials.

[Orin J.]

To muddy things a bit further could a Vibro Weapon be eligible? There is a physical "blade" but any damage comes from a very short range field surrounding it. Arguably the physical blade never touches a target when the field is engaged, but that makes things like Vibro Chainsaws even more silly.

it'd probably work, but on the knifeblade itself and not the vibrofield that does the damage. although that'd be a funny weapon, and MDC weapon that's magical only when it's turned off and acts as a "normal" knife.

[Aermas]

You have the physical hilt & magic weapons come in all shapes & sizes so physical space isn't the limiter, we also see all kinds of magic devices/weapons with a projection effect.

[ShadowLogan]

You have the physical hilt & magic weapons come in all shapes & sizes so physical space isn't the limiter, we also see all kinds of magic devices/weapons with a projection effect.

In general I would agree with this, but there can be specific use cases creates an exception.

The BFB entry in WB16o (pg119-20) are "usually Claymore swords, but on occasion, a weapon of this type is made as a Flamberge, polearm or large battle axe." It also mentions specifically "with designs etched into the blade."

The text specifically indicates alterations are made to the physical blade itself, something the wilk's laser sword lacks given it is only a hilt. The text also seems to indicate you need a lot of physical space given the only known examples are large weapons, which again a hilt-only weapon lacks.

Now a TW can create an hilt-only sword with a "projected blade" (Flaming Sword, Lightblade, IIRC even an Iceblade), but I don't think they can combine it with BFB proper given the description. That doesn't mean they could not give the device additional functions to give it SIMILAR abilities (x2 attack rate, increase damage, etc), and we know they can install multiple functions in a device.

[Aermas]

So if it walks like a duck, quacks like & duck & does extra damage & attacks like a duck I'm comfortable saying it's a duck

[taalismn]

What is this constant obsession with ducks? You have some unnatural attraction to waterfowl or something?
Leave the poor amphibious birds alone, willya?

[Aermas]

Not til they pay for their crimes

[taalismn]

Not til they pay for their crimes

Was it Donald, Scrooge, or Howard who did you dirt?

[Jefffar]

This is getting Daffy.

[taalismn]

You're despicable.

[Curbludgeon]

I'm thinking a possible way to deal with TW modifications potentially reducing the volume of a melee weapon's business end is to start with a larger weapon and incorporate a Mystic Fulcrum and\or Featherlight effect. With that even something which might be bulky like a two handed axe made of NYC mutant bone could be wielded easily, natively inflicts MDC damage, and there's enough space for a little wiring and crystals.

[Grazzik]

I'm thinking a possible way to deal with TW modifications potentially reducing the volume of a melee weapon's business end is to start with a larger weapon and incorporate a Mystic Fulcrum and\or Featherlight effect. With that even something which might be bulky like a two handed axe made of NYC mutant bone could be wielded easily, natively inflicts MDC damage, and there's enough space for a little wiring and crystals.

Take it one step further and put a TW switch on the hilt. This switch would be tied to size manipulation spells like reduce self or giant, but customized using the rules in Nightbane TtGD to only affect the business end of the weapon - shrink it, expand it or return to normal size. That way, it doesn't get in the way if in a tight space, or gives reach when out in the open. Similar type switch could be put on a shield.

PS. Thank you for no duck puns... it was driving me quackers ...

[Curbludgeon]

Both of those spells are of fairly high cost and short duration, so I don't know. There are published items using Mystic Fulcrum (Magus Automata) and Featherlight (Deathbringer swords, even though the latter spell is described as making a target useless as a weapon. A possible workaround is to put a long term Dimensional Pocket spell on a pseudo sheath from which a weapon could be drawn. There's a Shadow Magic spell which has a similar effect, but that's even less commonly available.

[ShadowLogan]

Getting back to the OP's question of where the extra damage comes from a BFB?

Which extra damage?:
-when energized in BFB mode. That's coming from the magic involved, I don't recall a strength modifier so it's likely an aura thing (which might not be extendable to non-physical blades). It might also be the result of the TW magic function interacting with other magic properties of the weapon (see below)
-when un-energized, a typical Claymore sword is supposed to do 3d6 SDC damage in RUE (more than in RMB era where its 2d6, though the Flamberge is 3d6), which means its already doing x2 damage for some reason when it becomes "enchanted" for MD combat (its doing 2:1 instead of 1:1), which could be the purpose of the markings etched into the blade mentioned in the text. There are probably a few ways to up the damage, like a TW duplicating the PF Alchemists ability to increase damage magically (upto x3 magical properties can be instilled), manufacture methods (Dwarves and Kobalds can improve damage), and material(s) involved (silver is mentioned IIRC), or some combination of these.

Both of those spells are of fairly high cost and short duration, so I don't know. There are published items using Mystic Fulcrum (Magus Automata) and Featherlight (Deathbringer swords, even though the latter spell is described as making a target useless as a weapon. A possible workaround is to put a long term Dimensional Pocket spell on a pseudo sheath from which a weapon could be drawn. There's a Shadow Magic spell which has a similar effect, but that's even less commonly available.

While I'm not going to argue about what the spells state there are two caveats to keep in mind in regard to TW per text in RUE:
1. Spell Chains can modify aspects of the primary spell (this is seen with the classic TW Flaming Sword where Firebolt's instant effect is modified by other spells in the chain to have a longer duration than instant. This means if one can work out what spells could be justified in modifying the primary spell (MF or FL in this case) effect(s) you can get around limitations of the primary spell
2. TWs can "tweak" Spells without the use of a spell chain (they have an example of using Carpet of Adhesion for super traction tires, they traded strength of the adhesive property for greater duration. So maybe in this case FL for example is tweaked to not reduce the weight/mass as much in exchange for greater duration (or property).

[Aermas]

Which extra damage?

Jumping from 6d6 to 2d4x10 when in Battle Fury mode. Stuff like the Deathbringer sword also has high melee damage without any definite reason for it. I just want a tw laser sword that can do 2d4 & double attacks/the properties of a Battle Fury Blade.

[taalismn]

Build yourself a two-blade laser sword then; though your two attacks will have to be on the same target. If you're especially strong, TRIPLE or Quadruple the number of laser-projectors. Expect to pay lots for the crystal-gem elements to bring the PPE costs down to sustainable levels.

[ShadowLogan]

Which extra damage?

Jumping from 6d6 to 2d4x10 when in Battle Fury mode. Stuff like the Deathbringer sword also has high melee damage without any definite reason for it. I just want a tw laser sword that can do 2d4 & double attacks/the properties of a Battle Fury Blade.

The Damage output you are looking for is pretty easy...

Construct a TW Lightblade with a Damage intensity setting option that must be set when activated/cast, this will alter the duration. Example of two settings:
1. 2d4MD (desired) means it would function x5 as long (or 25minutes) since that is 1/5 the base (max) damage
2. 2d4x10MD (desired) means it would function 1/2 as long (or 2.5minutes) since that is x2 the base (max) damage
3. (optional) base.
4. (optional) any other combinations of altered damage traded for by inverse time duration.

Note this should increase the cost and complexity of the device for this feature, in what ways I am not sure off hand. A GM could in theory rule each "setting" as a separate device function built into the hilt (limit of 4 per device IINM). A GM could also in theory rule the simple "settings" are a single device function and increase the cost/complexity (or they might not). This approach is based on the "Carpet of Adhesion" tire example in RUE (pg129) altering the primary spell's output.

The non-damage BFB enhancements would have to come via another device function, and should include some modification to the base. If you're just after the BFB speed enhancement, just doing a "Speed Weapon" TW enchantment should work (can likely also get the suit of magical force with secondary spells). Now the TW Lightblade likely will need something to indicate it can move faster as part of the extra device function here (the blade could be altered to a "faster" type of blade, counter weight in the Pommel of the hilt, a concealed hypodermic that deploys adding the Spell "Fleet Feet" or "Magical Adrenaline Rush" into the mix, etc).

[taalismn]

Build a whole arm sleeve/gauntlet with the physical performance enhancers built into it. More versatile, since you can use other melee weapons with it as well.

[ShadowLogan]

I agree with the gauntlet suggestion that would be a better option, you could combine Speed Weapon with a spell granting SN PS (and use the SN PS rules for weapons which might push the damage output).

Still the OP desires it all built into a hilt.

[taalismn]

Still the OP desires it all built into a hilt.

Then OP should just say. "Hey, unique TW weapon; can't be duplicated by anyone less than a god-level artificer that can bend the rules as they see fit."
Because anything less in creation power, I'd GM rule the weapon has to have some drawbacks. such as 'The ensorcelled entity inside the hilt that grants the extra attacks is ornery and disruptive; before engaging the extra attacks feature, roll versus magic; on a successful save you may use the extra attacks as you see fit, having overridden the hilt-spirit's willpower. On a fail, the hilt-spirit uses those extra attack-actions to either hinder(as a parry) your own attacks, or attacks you directly...get in a fight with your own laser sword trying to cut your head off."

Also, a laser sword with the properties wanted? Word gets out; other people want it to analyze or use. PC with super laser sword now gets targeted by bounty hunters.

[Curbludgeon]

What are some examples of items with a particularly clear duration\effect slider?

Jumping from 6d6 to 2d4x10 when in Battle Fury mode.

That's a use-activated Power Weapon(doubles, here with some rounding up) on an previously enchanted Enchant Weapon(doubled standard damage as MDC) performed on a large sword (3d6), empowered by an Ensorcel.

Stuff like the Deathbringer sword also has high melee damage without any definite reason for it.

That's a permanent Power Weapon on an Enchant Weapon large sword (here rounded down).[/quote]

I just want a tw laser sword that can do 2d4 & double attacks/the properties of a Battle Fury Blade.

The other effects are pretty straightforward, unless one wants to play with spell chains or the Ensorcel. Getting 6d6+ damage on a base weapon can just be a hilt can be a Lightblade with miniaturized runes or something.

Alternatively one can start jumping through hoops. Wormwood Battle Crystals double damage to whatever while on Wormwood. The Symbiotic Warrior "optional" take from the Rifter can make that work anywhere. Also from Wormood Apoks, as well as Underseas' Sea Inquisitor, can double damage to supernatural evil, which also converts SDC to MDC. I feel like Galaxy Unlimited may have had a 6d6 laser sword. Two fetishes work to increase damage, with one less hindered with regard to more technological weapons. Soulcraft could swing it, but would be benefitted by offloading BFB effects like the MDC to a source other than the weapon, which might lead to Fleet Feet being more appropriate than Speed Weapon.

[Aermas]

There's no mention of real-estate being a factor in enchanting anything. A throwing knife can have the same enchantments as a giant power armor sized Dragonslayer. So I still don't see why a hilt would be limiting. I don't really care if it was the size of a Juicer combat bracer or whatever. Maybe I'm not reading the books close enough

@Curblugeon

Works for me. I think any TW should be able to spellchain something close enough to the same thing then, I'm happy enough knowing that it should work